Phil Jones

Pexbo said:
Not to mention Rafaels contract surely cementing him the right back spot.


I really don't see how people look at him as a natural centre back. I look at Smalling and see a natural centre back. Calm, composed, good positioning, good awareness and reading of play and great in the air. He is a move ahead of the game and acts early in the same way Rio did when he was younger (and now obviously). What I see with Jones is a player who acts on what he sees occurring at the time which is why he throws himself about a bit more and can be caught out of position.

I think he would make a good box to box midfielder but not in the traditional sense in a two man midfield. In a three man midfield with two intelligent midfielders, one who can be trusted deep and one who can be trusted forward with both moving to the middle third when nescessary. Jones then has something of a free role between them, charging around and roughing people up and picking up the ball and driving forward with it.

Shit, that's pretty much Gerrard of 2005 isn't it :lol:

Worries of a lack of passing ability so two midfielders capable of passing played next to him.

One player capable of anchoring and playing the defensive role (Hamann or Mascherano) one capable of retainig and dictating with their passing (Alonso).

No tactical responsibility.

Pure physical reliance. Rash tackles and driving runs.

It could work for him though!
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id totally agree with the above. that his only chance of becoming an important cog in a top class team. he doesnt possess the natural defenders ability in terms of reading the game. the likes of terry and carragher have improved upon this part of their game with experience but experience cant make up for the natural ability posessed by the likes of rio, woodgate at his best etc.

i just get a little bit fed up of people criticing the stereotypical english way ie a big strong brave lad with limited ability running around and trying. then the very same people singing the praises of jones and calling for him to be england and uniteds captain elect and central midfielder.

i can assure you that had we signed and african player from some frence side with the same ability as jones he would be described as a big spud and not "the finest half season ive ever seen from a young player in a united shirt"
 
Our backline is stocked with youth and experience.

Jones will be deployed in the midfield more this season IMO.

He will get League and FA Cup games as a Fletcher replacement - physical nuisance around the pitch, closing down, interceptions, with some bursts forward.

Without Fletch, we lack a significant amount of bite and physicality in the midfield. Jones can provide this and hopefully develop into a player of Fletcher's quality.
 
Phil Jones is a talented player but his versatility and apparent lack of positional discipline could relegate him to being "John O'Shea Mk. II" - which wouldn't exactly be a bad thing for him or the club.
 
Andrew~ said:
Phil Jones is a talented player but his versatility and apparent lack of positional discipline could relegate him to being "John O'Shea Mk. II" - which wouldn't exactly be a bad thing for him or the club.
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I was thinking it for a time and it really can be like this. I don't know if he can be better than Evans while I really think that Smalling will be much better than him as CB and Rafael as RB. But O'shea didn't have a problem managing to play 40 games a season and if Jones will do the same then we have a good player. And every team need this kind of players.
 
Andrew~ said:
Phil Jones is a talented player but his versatility and apparent lack of positional discipline could relegate him to being "John O'Shea Mk. II" - which wouldn't exactly be a bad thing for him or the club.
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if phil jones has half as good of a career as sheasy then he'l have done well for himself and the club
 
ben_foster said:
if phil jones has half as good of a career as sheasy then he'l have done well for himself and the club
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Judging by talent and his attitude I think that he will surprase Sheasy. So in 3 years I think that we will have a similar type of player like O'shea but better than him.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Judging by talent and his attitude I think that he will surprase Sheasy. So in 3 years I think that we will have a similar type of player like O'shea but better than him.
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Oshea looked better in his first season than Jones did this season.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Without Fletch, we lack a significant amount of bite and physicality in the midfield. Jones can provide this and hopefully develop into a player of Fletcher's quality.
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Andrew~ said:
Phil Jones is a talented player but his versatility and apparent lack of positional discipline could relegate him to being "John O'Shea Mk. II" - which wouldn't exactly be a bad thing for him or the club.
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I'm actually hoping he can develop into a Keane type player. If he truly wants most to play in midfield - which is still a total mystery - he's certainly got the determination, the character and the physicality. He's very young but has already accumulated plenty of experience. Anyhow, this is my little daydream...
 
I think its way too early to suggest Jones will be a utility player and he has top much quality to be such. A lot of players move around the pitch when younger before settling on a position. Look at players like Rooney and Welbeck who have been utilised on the wings, AM etc. Even scholes, possibly the greatest prem midfielder ever was a forward until he was 21/22.

I think there will come a time where Ferguson will decide Jones best position and stick to it. Moving him around for now is just to get him to learn a wide range of skills.
 
Jones is one of the very best players of his age in the world, there's some weird, ridiculous bollocks being stated in this thread.
 
...How exactly? Also what on Earth is your point in stating his age, do you think most people don't know he's 20? It's not exactly a secret. Yes, he's one of the best 20 year olds in world football, what of it?
 
I think its an exaggeration. And, you know, indicative of the fact people are overstating the case both ways for Jones. A great prospect and a good player. Not one of the best 20 year olds in the world tho.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I think its an exaggeration. And, you know, indicative of the fact people are overstating the case both ways for Jones. A great prospect and a good player. Not one of the best 20 year olds in the world tho.
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Who are the best 20 year olds in the world then?
 
I had this out with Glaston, before that got deleted for being wildly off-topic. Name ten 20 year olds who have done better than the following:

-First choice for one of the biggest clubs in Europe
-Previously sought after by every single big club in his country
-regularly called up to a highly-ranked international side
-Widely considered future captain of his country

Glaston refused to name a list, insisting it was irrelevant, but I did try, and I think I came up with six names. The most obvious two are Neymar and Gotze, of course. Anyway, Jones is 20, he's incredibly young, and his career to date had been fantastic.
 
Chabon said:
...How exactly? Also what on Earth is your point in stating his age, do you think most people don't know he's 20? It's not exactly a secret. Yes, he's one of the best 20 year olds in world football, what of it?
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I think if you look around world football you'll find a fair few 20 year olds who are more complete than him right now. There's not too many with a higher ceiling than him though I'll grant you that.
 
Chabon said:
I had this out with Glaston, before that got deleted for being wildly off-topic. Name ten 20 year olds who have done better than the following:

-First choice for one of the biggest clubs in Europe
-Previously sought after by every single big club in his country
-regularly called up to a highly-ranked international side
-Widely considered future captain of his country
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What you are talking about is his potential though which is what I was talking about in my post above. On current ability there are easily 10 players better than him.
 
To be entirely clear, I'm claiming that Phil Jones is amongst (at least) the top ten players of his age group, meaning players who turned 20 over the course of the last season. His school year, essentially. When I made my list I went through a load of "best young players" lists to see if there was anyone I'd missed.
 
Chabon said:
To be entirely clear, I'm claiming that Phil Jones is amongst (at least) the top ten players of his age group, meaning players who turned 20 over the course of the last season. His school year, essentially. When I made my list I went through a load of "best young players" lists to see if there was anyone I'd missed.
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I cant think of many better then him.
 
Chabon said:
Go on then...
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I really can't be added to do a list, it's beside the point and I hate lists. The point is that someone like Rodwell could be considered more accomplished at his age but I don't think anyone would believe Rodwell will be a better player.
 
Rodwell's a year older, and has never really been at Jones' level, which is why he's still at Everton. As sad as a statement as that is about modern football.

I don't want to particularly slag him off, however, as I can imagine few possible worlds in which he doens't eventually end up a Manchester United player.
 
Thiago Alcântara
Philippe Coutinho
Luc Castaignos
Iker Muniain
Lucas
Cristian Eriksen
Phil Jones
Jack Wilshere
Mario Gotze
Neymar

Top ten under 20 in no order in my opinion.
 
Yes, but it seems a pretty weak argument to just claim such a thing without providing the evidence to back it up.
 
ben_foster said:
that his only chance of becoming an important cog in a top class team. he doesnt possess the natural defenders ability in terms of reading the game.
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Right, definitely not a skill you can learn with experience!

Seriously, you've gone way too far over the other side with your tub-thumping for his lack of quality.
 
Chabon said:
To be entirely clear, I'm claiming that Phil Jones is amongst (at least) the top ten players of his age group, meaning players who turned 20 over the course of the last season. His school year, essentially. When I made my list I went through a load of "best young players" lists to see if there was anyone I'd missed.
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Top of my head:

Thiago Alcantara, Isco, Canales, Gotze, Neymar, Casemiro, Oscar, Douglas, Wilshere, Erik Lamela, Ox-Chamberlain, Gaston Ramirez, Hazard, Pogba ;)
 
Suedesi said:
Top of my head:

Thiago Alcantara, Isco, Canales, Gotze, Neymar, Casemiro, Oscar, Douglas, Wilshere, Erik Lamela, Ox-Chamberlain, Gaston Ramirez, Hazard, Pogba ;)
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Are any of those defensive players? It's evident that premier defensive talents at this age are few and far between. Jones is in that elite bracket, even if he has a few obvious flaws to iron out.
 
Although physically different Jones at right back reminds me of Ince at right back when he first came. Charging runs towards the centre as if he didn't really want to be a right back at all.
 
He has a hell of a lot more potential than JOS ever had imo. I dont say that lightly either. The lad is a leader and has all the time in the world to develop with us.

Hate this time of year when everyone is pining for new signings, we have some of the most exciting prospects in the country already.
 
Suedesi said:
Top of my head:

Thiago Alcantara, Isco, Canales, Gotze, Neymar, Casemiro, Oscar, Douglas, Wilshere, Erik Lamela, Ox-Chamberlain, Gaston Ramirez, Hazard, Pogba ;)
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Canales can't get a game and is going to go on loan. The ox has had half a season, and Jones got into United's midfield over Pogba. Yet Pogba is higher rated? Ridiculous.
 
No questions about Jones's talent but i must admit to not being 100% sure about what his best position is.
 
Suedesi said:
Top of my head:

Thiago Alcantara, Isco, Canales, Gotze, Neymar, Casemiro, Oscar, Douglas, Wilshere, Erik Lamela, Ox-Chamberlain, Gaston Ramirez, Hazard, Pogba ;)
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Okay, and what's your justification for some* of these players being better than Jones. What have they done with their careers which compares to that quick list of facts about Jones I mentioned.

*I say some, because Thiago, Canales, Douglas, Hazard and Gaston Ramirez are all at least a year older than Jones, and a couple are obviously ridiculous. Pogba and the Ox better than Jones, are you taking the piss?
 
Decotron said:
He has a hell of a lot more potential than JOS ever had imo. I dont say that lightly either. The lad is a leader and has all the time in the world to develop with us.

Hate this time of year when everyone is pining for new signings, we have some of the most exciting prospects in the country already.
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I agree the squad is looking great, it will be interesting to see who is made scapegoat next season. Park was getting a bit of that at the end of last season but now he's gone. Giggs had been drawing some groans in center midfield but surely no one would revive 'Giggs out'.

I'm worried it may well be Jones, as he's likely to stay behind all our first team center backs, all our first team center midfielders, and thus may spend a lot of time at right back, a position he's very unlikely to end up in. It's easy to criticize a guy playing out of position.
 
Decotron said:
He has a hell of a lot more potential than JOS ever had imo. I dont say that lightly either. The lad is a leader and has all the time in the world to develop with us.

Hate this time of year when everyone is pining for new signings, we have some of the most exciting prospects in the country already.
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Completely agree. There's a lot of underrating of Jones in this thread. He'll play plenty of games, just like last season. No reason why he can't challenge Rafael for the RB spot, and midfield is wide open.
 
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