Phil Jones

OUr problem was not that we didn't mark Pirlo in that game. Our problem is that we gave the ball away a lot. Nothing that I've seen from Jones this season makes me think that he would keep the ball any better in cm for England (any better than Gerrard and Parker).

Not convinced that is his position anyway. His position will be CB. And he still has a lot of maturing to do to play CB at the top level.
 
I don't think Jones has anywhere near enough technical ability to play in midfield. Yes he can run with the ball at his feet quite well, yes he is fierce in the tackle but his passing and movement are not those of a natural midfielder. If he did play that role he'd be pretty much just a destroyer type and I just don't have time for that kind of specialist player in modern football. It's a throw back to a bygone era. In a pinch he can play there but surely long term he's either a cb or an fb.
 
Was at a Barbie the other night and was speaking to a guy who used to work with Phil Jones' dad. He's spoke to Phil himself plenty of times and considers himself a mate. He gave us some good info on him and shared somethings Phil had spoke with him about.

He told me that Jones himself would prefer to become a midfielder rather than a centre back, yet conceded his abilities in reality are actually more suited to the CB role.

He also told me of a time (not sure which game it was) that one of his pass backs had led to a feck up and a goal, and that SAF was going ballistic at him for it. I was surprised to hear, though, that Jones stood his ground shouting that De Gea was acres out of position and that it was his fault, before storming off. :lol:

Appears he has big bollocks too.
 
Chrisjn_ said:
Was at a Barbie the other night and was speaking to a guy who used to work with Phil Jones' dad. He's spoke to Phil himself plenty of times and considers himself a mate. He gave us some good info on him and shared somethings Phil had spoke with him about.

He told me that Jones himself would prefer to become a midfielder rather than a centre back, yet conceded his abilities in reality are actually more suited to the CB role.

He also told me of a time (not sure which game it was) that one of his pass backs had led to a feck up and a goal, and that SAF was going ballistic at him for it. I was surprised to hear, though, that Jones stood his ground shouting that De Gea was acres out of position and that it was his fault, before storming off. :lol:

Appears he has big bollocks too.
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2:57

 
Pass back was fine there, but I can't help but think he looked a little lax in reacting to the goalscorer.
 
I would love for him to develop into a box-to-box midfielder. Surprised if it's true that he prefers to develop into a midfielder. Intriguing.
 
Personally don't think he has the creativity to play box to box. He has good awareness and good feet but he's too wild at the moment.

Would be much better off learning the discipline and then branching out rather than just being wild through his development.

That clearance from DdG hahah was pretty awful.
 
he's only rated so high because he's english!!!! not as good of a footballer or a defender as sheasy. will run around and make brave tackles and lots of fouls.

basically phil jones somes up everything bad about the english game. big strong heavy lad with limited ability but a real trier. hence why he is being talked about as the next england captain. despite constant calls for change in the way we approach the game we constantly revert back to stereotype. phils jones is a stereo typical english centre half.

dont get me wrong, great squad player for us, but future leader???? future centre midfielder??? i fecking hope not
 
ben_foster said:
he's only rated so high because he's english!!!! not as good of a footballer or a defender as sheasy. will run around and make brave tackles and lots of fouls.

basically phil jones somes up everything bad about the english game. big strong heavy lad with limited ability but a real trier. hence why he is being talked about as the next england captain. despite constant calls for change in the way we approach the game we constantly revert back to stereotype. phils jones is a stereo typical english centre half.

dont get me wrong, great squad player for us, but future leader???? future centre midfielder??? i fecking hope not
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The first half of the season from this lad was the best I have ever seen from a young lad in United colours. Second half he lost his way and came strong again at the end, patience doesn't seem to be a virtue with most fans nowadays. :(
 
ben_foster said:
he's only rated so high because he's english!!!! not as good of a footballer or a defender as sheasy. will run around and make brave tackles and lots of fouls.

basically phil jones somes up everything bad about the english game. big strong heavy lad with limited ability but a real trier. hence why he is being talked about as the next england captain. despite constant calls for change in the way we approach the game we constantly revert back to stereotype. phils jones is a stereo typical english centre half.

dont get me wrong, great squad player for us, but future leader???? future centre midfielder??? i fecking hope not
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I agree with so much of what you say when you're on about English stereotypes etc but you're off the mark when you apply it too Jones. He has a lot of these qualities granted but has so much more to his game than someone who simply runs around a lot making brave tackles and conceeding fouls.
 
He should never play as a midfielder for us, ever.

Good as a young right back, potentially great as a center back, not a midfielder.
 
Cina said:
He should never play as a midfielder for us, ever.

Good as a young right back, potentially great as a center back, not a midfielder.
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I think there's potential there for him as a midfielder personally. Far from the finished article obviously but look how long it took the likes of Fletcher and is taking Anderson etc.

I certainly think he's looked more natural in the middle than at the back anyway.
 
To be honest I'm really unsure what his best position is. Many here thinks that his best position is in CB but I don't think he has the physical attributes to play as an CB. He's not tall enough (5' 11") and lacks an aerial presence. This got exposed in our 3-1 defeat against Newcastle when Ba and Ameobi tore him a new arsehole in the air.

I look at CBs like Carvalho, Gallas, Cordoba all of whom have the same physical built as Jones but compensated their lack of physical presence by being brilliant on the ground and reading of the game, I don't think Jones' game possess the same qualities. His game revolves round his combative, high aggression play, he isn't really a finesse type of defender.
 
There's potential and there's time, he's still only 20. But we really need to decide who are we going to make him, either a midfielder or a defender.
 
He lacks the basics of a CM. His long & short passing are quite poor, so is his positioning and he has no composure at all at times. Then again, he was stunning against QPR in the middle, yes it was QPR away but he showed that he had a bit of potential to be a good midfielder for us.
 
cw1984 said:
I think there's potential there for him as a midfielder personally. Far from the finished article obviously but look how long it took the likes of Fletcher and is taking Anderson etc.

I certainly think he's looked more natural in the middle than at the back anyway.
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Anderson and Fletcher were always midfielders though. Jones would essentially need to be converted to play there and he lacks a lot of fundamental skills for doing so, I thought myself that was evident last season.

He has everything physically and technically needed to be a great center back, which is why I think he will be one if he has the attitude to mature enough.

I really hope we don't start trying to use him in midfield to solve our problems there. It'll be like Anderson all over again, only worse, because at least Anderson is a midfielder, just not the type we kept using him as.
 
Cina said:
He should never play as a midfielder for us, ever.

Good as a young right back, potentially great as a center back, not a midfielder.
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This.

If we use Jones as a make shift midfielder then it would be like Smith all over again - it's not going to work. I'd rather let someone younger who'd be more natural have a go but in reality we need to dip in the transfer market.
 
Jones could learn to be a good midfielder, but that will come with experience.

He rushes into things too much, plays the game at full throttle a little like rooney did when he was young, but in those areas sometimes you need to be more composed and take your time / use your head rather than run like a madman through 3 players and lose the ball.

He certainly has the strength / stamina / tackling ability, but just needs to learn how to use the ball in a better way.

Anyway the sky is the limit for him, we saw the best and worst of him last season, but i think he will learn from that and go on leaps and bounds, hes still only bloody 20 years old guys come on!.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Jones could learn to be a good midfielder, but that will come with experience.

He rushes into things too much, plays the game at full throttle a little like rooney did when he was young, but in those areas sometimes you need to be more composed and take your time / use your head rather than run like a madman through 3 players and lose the ball.

He certainly has the strength / stamina / tackling ability, but just needs to learn how to use the ball in a better way.

Anyway the sky is the limit for him, we saw the best and worst of him last season, but i think he will learn from that and go on leaps and bounds, hes still only bloody 20 years old guys come on!.
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This!

Jones has everything you need to be a top player, and maybe the midfield is his best place to develop. Off course he's not a Iniesta or Fabregas type of player but he have other valuable quality's. His pure power and determination is top and the only thing that can stop him is his own fears.
 
Next season will be another where he plays in several positions I reckon. With Vidic returning and Ferdinand, Smalling and Evans also available Jones will find it hard to get games at CB unless we have another injury crisis.
 
I can see Jones in CM personally, has all the qualities. He's too naive to be centre half at the moment and lacks pace to play full back IMO.
 
Orton said:
Next season will be another where he plays in several positions I reckon. With Vidic returning and Ferdinand, Smalling and Evans also available Jones will find it hard to get games at CB unless we have another injury crisis.
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Not to mention Rafaels contract surely cementing him the right back spot.


I really don't see how people look at him as a natural centre back. I look at Smalling and see a natural centre back. Calm, composed, good positioning, good awareness and reading of play and great in the air. He is a move ahead of the game and acts early in the same way Rio did when he was younger (and now obviously). What I see with Jones is a player who acts on what he sees occurring at the time which is why he throws himself about a bit more and can be caught out of position.

I think he would make a good box to box midfielder but not in the traditional sense in a two man midfield. In a three man midfield with two intelligent midfielders, one who can be trusted deep and one who can be trusted forward with both moving to the middle third when nescessary. Jones then has something of a free role between them, charging around and roughing people up and picking up the ball and driving forward with it.

Shit, that's pretty much Gerrard of 2005 isn't it :lol:

Worries of a lack of passing ability so two midfielders capable of passing played next to him.

One player capable of anchoring and playing the defensive role (Hamann or Mascherano) one capable of retainig and dictating with their passing (Alonso).

No tactical responsibility.

Pure physical reliance. Rash tackles and driving runs.

It could work for him though!
 
People should go back and watch the highlights of that handful of games he played in CM alongside Carrick, rather than judging him on his more recent appearances there alongside a 38 year old winger.
 
We need to just give him time to develop. Over time we'll know more on the type of player he will become and what position that will be in. Far too soon to rule him out ever being a Centrehalf/Full back/Midfielder after a handful of games in each position. He's only 20 with about 15 more years infront of him hopefully to learn and improve.
 
kouroux said:
What do you mean by "no tactical responsibility" ?
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Obviously it's a loose term because everyone has some responsibility but I'm talking about set roles that require footballing "intelligence".

For example:

Defensive midfield must me disciplined positionally and read what the oppositions attack is doing and where it can be broken up.

Someone like Xavi's tactical role is to decide where to move the ball around the pitch and to make himself always available for a "get out of jail free" pass.

Fullbacks I find the most interesting tactically as their positioning affects the whole team more than any other player. Push high up and they can create space in midfield as an extra player most drop in to defend against them. Staying back can make a defence almost impenetrable like Chelsea did but it concedes the midfield and possession and territory with it.

What I am talking about is essentially a free role which is traditionally an attacking role. Usually you give a free role to a creative player to pick up positions he sees fit and forget about either defending or the teams shape. It's a 4-4-1 and the free role drifts and is difficult to zonal mark and usually requires a man marker. The game then becomes battle between man marker and free role or often a game of misdirection as the attacking team attacks through more orthodox channels due to space created by the free role.

Jones' free role would be different, he'd charge around being a physical nuisance but at the same time pick up the ball and go on a run like we know he can. He'd be an extra man in midfield we generally miss and a physical commanding personality too. I think it could work, personally but you never know until it's tried.
 
He's the player with the biggest upside in your squad, IMO (Although I would've liked to have seen Cleverly more this season)...Has everything to be the best player in England...I wouldn't tame his development...He'll make mistakes but if he has the bottle, it'll only make him better
 
FCBarca said:
He's the player with the biggest upside in your squad, IMO (Although I would've liked to have seen Cleverly more this season)...Has everything to be the best player in England...I wouldn't tame his development...He'll make mistakes but if he has the bottle, it'll only make him better
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Agree 100%.

In truth we should see what he develops in to rather than pigeon hole him.
 
Lawman said:
The first half of the season from this lad was the best I have ever seen from a young lad in United colours. Second half he lost his way and came strong again at the end, patience doesn't seem to be a virtue with most fans nowadays. :(
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hahahahahahahahahahahah good craic
 
FCBarca said:
He's the player with the biggest upside in your squad, IMO (Although I would've liked to have seen Cleverly more this season)...Has everything to be the best player in England...I wouldn't tame his development...He'll make mistakes but if he has the bottle, it'll only make him better
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really?

I am very underwhelmed by his technical ability. Too much "kick and rush" from him.

Smalling is my highest rated u23 player at utd IMO.
 
I like Smalling a lot too...There are 4 excellent future prospects in him, Welbeck, Cleverly & Jones...You will need more but they are impressive...Very much looking forward to seeing Cleverly again


VoetbalWizard said:
really?

I am very underwhelmed by his technical ability. Too much "kick and rush" from him.
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I do think that and that isn't because he overwhelms me with his technical ability but that he has it in his repertoire...Should be part of the linkups on offense - should be given license to go forward...I think he's probably been bridled in his development, told to sit back etc....But he's a ball playing defender with speed/strength who could probably be a damn good DM...even versatile enough as a CAM perhaps...Truth is I think he could be as good as wants to be, he seems a natural footballer - even if he looks like a country farmer ;)
 
FCBarca said:
I like Smalling a lot too...There are 4 excellent future prospects in him, Welbeck, Cleverly & Jones...You will need more but they are impressive...Very much looking forward to seeing Cleverly again
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Yep, same here. Smalling being my personal favourite!

Let's just hope some patience pays off with this lot, like it did for you guys with Xavi/Iniesta etc. :drool:
 
I hope the lack of de gea being mentioned as an excellent future prospect alongside smalling welbeck jones and cleverley is because hes the most accomplished. Feels more secure than vds nOw! Jones may not hit the huge heights of captaining us and england but he is very exciting.
 
I skipped De Gea because he's not English....My comments were more about English/United prospects

Plus, I've known about the keeper for years
 
Vibhas said:
I hope the lack of de gea being mentioned as an excellent future prospect alongside smalling welbeck jones and cleverley is because hes the most accomplished. Feels more secure than vds nOw! Jones may not hit the huge heights of captaining us and england but he is very exciting.
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:wenger:
 
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