Phil Jones

Quinton Fortune said:
Yeah I'm wrong with the assist thing. I'm not trying to be harsh on Carrick's passing, its not him who is the problem, its the combination of the two of them which is. Makes us concede the front foot in midfield and encourages people to attack us without giving us a proper chance to get our foot on it if we're under pressure.

Is it too much to ask to see us try and win games rather than try and sit back and nick them. We need to show we need to play like we're the best team in the country not a team who are flat track bullys and able to contain the teams around them
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If you're going have two sitting midfielders the front four need to be efficient and on form. Cech made a great save off Hernandez and RVP missed a good chance whilst Ba scored a great goal, there wasn't too much in it today. Both teams were poor, Chelsea looked more threatening once they scored and we opened up a bit more but we lack composure and craft on the ball.
 
Brwned said:
He was excellent for the most part. Didn't misplace a pass, won 4 or 5 free kicks by bull-dozing past players, pressed well and covered his midfield partner better than any of our other midfielders. Still a lot of work to do to be a capable midfielder for us because there were a few times he just didn't have the vision you need to play in midfield but very promising performance I thought.
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Yeah, I liked him in second half too, but around 60th minute he was switched to RB, so I didn't want to mention second half because of that.
 
I didn't understand us playing him today. Either you play him to do a man-marker job which he didn't or you play him in his natural position.

As an out and out CM, you can't play him against Chelsea...you might get away with it against Villa or QPR but not Chelsea. I'm astounded that we didn't go 4-3-3 with Cleverley more central with Nani and Welbeck on the wings...providing we were evidently trying to stop Chelsea from playing through the middle, which failed miserably.

Jones wasn't bad, but it was pretty bland for the most part. Now Carrick isn't bland, but he isn't going to burst forward and link up with the forwards like Cleverley might from the centre, hence why or passing lacked any kind of incisiveness for the most-part.
 
Thought he played really well today. And I don't get all the stick Fergie is getting for playing him in midfield. He plays well there, and has the kind of qualities we need in a midfielder right now.

He's no less technically proficient than someone like Khedira, and if that guy can play week in, week out for one of the best teams in the world right now, I don't see why Jones can't develop into a very good midfielder.
 
Andrew~ said:
Thought he played really well today. And I don't get all the stick Fergie is getting for playing him in midfield. He plays well there, and has the kind of qualities we need in a midfielder right now.

He's no less technically proficient than someone like Khedira, and if that guy can play week in, week out for one of the best teams in the world right now, I don't see why Jones can't develop into a very good midfielder.
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I think he's too reactive for us, he's like a firefighter dealing with problems after they've developed, I just feel we need someone more pro-active than him.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I think he's too reactive for us, he's like a firefighter dealing with problems after they've developed, I just feel we need someone more pro-active than him.
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Perhaps, but why can't he learn to be more pro-active? He's only 21 and has a lot of developing yet to do.
 
Andrew~ said:
Thought he played really well today. And I don't get all the stick Fergie is getting for playing him in midfield. He plays well there, and has the kind of qualities we need in a midfielder right now.

He's no less technically proficient than someone like Khedira, and if that guy can play week in, week out for one of the best teams in the world right now, I don't see why Jones can't develop into a very good midfielder.
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Totally agree - one of the few bright points from today was having him back and seeing him do well yet again in midfield. Sooner or later the penny will drop for the naysayers.
 
When you compare him to the quality of midfielder normally associated with us, he's far worse than average. Even when he has a good game, he's still severely limited in what he can do. There isn't going to be humble pie to be eaten by the critics here, he's never going to be anything compared to the likes of Scholes, Keane and even Carrick.
 
pocco said:
When you compare him to the quality of midfielder normally associated with us, he's far worse than average. Even when he has a good game, he's still severely limited in what he can do. There isn't going to be humble pie to be eaten by the critics here, he's never going to be anything compared to the likes of Scholes, Keane and even Carrick.
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So? He doesn't have to be those players to be a good footballer.
 
pocco said:
When you compare him to the quality of midfielder normally associated with us, he's far worse than average. Even when he has a good game, he's still severely limited in what he can do. There isn't going to be humble pie to be eaten by the critics here, he's never going to be anything compared to the likes of Scholes, Keane and even Carrick.
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Humble pie is already being served to those who said he cant play in midfield - IMO he has already proven that he is a good option for us to have in there.
How good a midfielder he can be remains to be seen, but quite obviously he is not a Scholes or Carrick type of player so there is no comparison to be made there. The initial benchmark of recent United midfielders for Jones would be the likes of Fletcher, Hargreaves and Butt.
 
"Jones is going to be a fantastic player, his talent is unbelievable. Yes [his best position is centre-back] but you could play him anywhere. I think you could play him centre-forward! He’s just that type of player, he’s an animal for football. He grasps the game, he understands it. Play him right-back? Brilliant. Play him centre-midfield? No problem. Play him centre-back? Terrific.

"He’s just one of those unusual players you get now and again who can play anywhere. We’ve not had a player like him in terms of someone who can play at that performance level since, well the closest you would get would be Brian McClair.

"Now, Brian McClair was a fantastic player. He could play anywhere, McClair. I remember kidding him on once; I said to him, just go and play in the right-back area and he laughed. I said to him, ‘What are you laughing at?’ and he said, ‘Next week I’ll be centre-half.’ But that was his character, so composed about life. Nothing bothered him."
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I think Sir Alex is going to be annoying you lot for years to come by playing Jones in midfield quite a bit.
 
It's only going to hinder his development though isn't it. Instead of getting a top class center back in a few years time we will probably end up with a decent defender and mediocre midfielder. I just feel he should be playing more games at centre-back if we want him to reach his full potential.
 
Castia said:
It's only going to hinder his development though isn't it. Instead of getting a top class center back in a few years time we will probably end up with a decent defender and mediocre midfielder. I just feel he should be playing more games at centre-back if we want him to reach his full potential.
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I don't think so. There's already been a significant improvement from him as a CB since last year despite playing a variety of positions.
 
I don't think so at all. Generally when he's played centre back this year he's been excellent. This is a great way for him to get experience against top opposition which he otherwise wouldn't have got due to the intense competition at centre half. All this is doing is adding more strings to his bow and continuing his rapid development.

I don't agree at all with Rood that he's already proven to be a good option there for us but he is a quick learner and Sir Alex obviously likes him there so I do think he'll get there at some point. I think the Chelsea game was only the 3rd time he's played as a typical centre mid and he's generally looked good there despite having obvious limitations at the moment. I don't see it as an Smith-esque experiment and I don't think he'll suddenly regress like O'Shea, he's got too much self-confidence and determination for that to happen.
 
I thought he had a decent game against chelsea personally.

Sure he does look a little lost there - but then its a position he rarely plays.

The thing that concerned me more would be his ball retention and his passing ability - but both were more than i expected.

Won some key tackles too which was nice, but obviously his passing range and attacking influence was limited, but what can we expect?.
 
Brwned said:
I think Sir Alex is going to be annoying you lot for years to come by playing Jones in midfield quite a bit.
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Not annoying me - that's exactly where I want him to be playing!

IFWT

Although I dont agree with Fergie's comparison with McClair - was never a big fan of Chocky.
 
He can do the job that Hargreaves did and probably add a few assists and goals too once he settles. Think his passing is decent enough there if he's paired with a more attack minded CM and positionally he is improving like he is at CB.

He will be alternated in both positions depending on who else is there before he eventually settles in one. Getting minutes at CM or whererver is better than sitting on the bench anyway.
 
Fergie seems to rate him very highly. I've heard he's always talking about Powell to anyone who will listen as well.
 
Carl said:
I don't think so. There's already been a significant improvement from him as a CB since last year despite playing a variety of positions.
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I hope so. How many matches has he played for us at CB this season? I think a couple in the FA Cup. Granted, he did very well in both, but that can't give you a full view.
 
anyone got a list of how many game he has played in CB vs CM vs RB since he came to us?
 
According to Transfermarkt:

RM - 1
CM - 15
RB - 19
CB - 19

Wikipedia reckons he's made 57 appearances for us, that's 54 there. So not exact, but gives an idea.
 
Solius said:
Fergie seems to rate him very highly. I've heard he's always talking about Powell to anyone who will listen as well.
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Putting it like that just makes me think of those old men that will talk to death anyone who stand still long enough.
 
We already know he's a quick learner. He's not a CM by any means. Unless he somehow improves on his limitations, I don't see the use for it other than game time.
 
I don't think it will hinder his development, think rotating between RB, CB and CM in the Premier League, Champions League, FA & League Cup will be better for his development than just playing CB in the U21's and occasional cup game. Of course we could loan him out if a side will guarantee they will playing centre half but I just think we would be losing a important member of the squad so I am happy to see him getting experience wherever he can at the highest level at the moment.
 
Mystry said:
This season he's started 4 RB, 1 CB, 3 CM plus a further 4 sub appearances in CM.

Couldn't find stats for last season though.
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He started more games than that a CB this season, unless that's just his league appearances?
 
Cevno said:
He's improving at CM too.
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I agree. Jones actually does a decent job as a defensive mid and will only get better and better. You can't ask too much of him there, though, but why should we? We've got a very talented squad as it is.

After we dispense with City and Fergie has the leisure to put any XI he wants what I'd like to see is Jones back at defensive mid and Carrick pushed up a bit. Carrick has had a brilliant season and for me it's a tossup between van Persie, Carrick and De Gea for United player of the year, but if there's one aspect of Carrick's game that is still underutilized, it's his attacking play in the last third. To the naked eye he does seem at times to move in slow motion but if you look more carefully he's actually very quick on the ball and pings his passes very well. If we could slot Jones in front of the back four and push up Carrick with Cleverley, we should be able to break this mini scoring drought we've been suffering over the last month or so.

De Gea
BACK FOUR
Jones
Nani/Carrick/Cleverley/Rooney (yes, Rooney wide left)
van Persie

Our back four (fill in whatever names you like) have buttoned things down, De Gea has put his jitters long behind and has been masterful, to wildly understate it, this season. We're not going to be leaking in many goals now -- consider that it took us going to down to 10 men for Real to finally put two past us. Put in a solid defensive-minded player in front of them and unless Carrick to pull the strings in the last third. Goals will follow.

It's worth taking a look at how this works as we begin to ponder what needs must be addressed in the summer.
 
I think SAF is trying to convert him into a midfielder mainly because of two things. We are short in that department and there's lots of competition for that CB position. He's probably trying to save some money in that process. I have to agree with anyone who says he's improved in that midfield position. Specially his ball retention. Doubt he'll be make lots of assists but he can cover for carrick if he keeps improving. He'll be a huge asset in big games where we'll not see much possession or we need to mark players who are very dangerous.

If we play him in midfield then we won't be seeing his crosses. I think he's great at them. Right now is a very important phase in his development. SAF needs to decide which path to take and keep sticking him only in that position. Whether it's defence or midfield. We have a potential world class player in our hands. He is not the solution to our problems but he can definitely delay it by some more years
 
As of right now, how do you rate him against Cleverley as a partner for Carrick in midfield?
 
Ruud10 said:
I agree. Jones actually does a decent job as a defensive mid and will only get better and better. You can't ask too much of him there, though, but why should we? We've got a very talented squad as it is.

After we dispense with City and Fergie has the leisure to put any XI he wants what I'd like to see is Jones back at defensive mid and Carrick pushed up a bit. Carrick has had a brilliant season and for me it's a tossup between van Persie, Carrick and De Gea for United player of the year, but if there's one aspect of Carrick's game that is still underutilized, it's his attacking play in the last third. To the naked eye he does seem at times to move in slow motion but if you look more carefully he's actually very quick on the ball and pings his passes very well. If we could slot Jones in front of the back four and push up Carrick with Cleverley, we should be able to break this mini scoring drought we've been suffering over the last month or so.

De Gea
BACK FOUR
Jones
Nani/Carrick/Cleverley/Rooney (yes, Rooney wide left)
van Persie

Our back four (fill in whatever names you like) have buttoned things down, De Gea has put his jitters long behind and has been masterful, to wildly understate it, this season. We're not going to be leaking in many goals now -- consider that it took us going to down to 10 men for Real to finally put two past us. Put in a solid defensive-minded player in front of them and unless Carrick to pull the strings in the last third. Goals will follow.

It's worth taking a look at how this works as we begin to ponder what needs must be addressed in the summer.
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I can see what you mean, but I wouldn't swap Carrick's defensive shielding and his interceptions for anything. If we want more offensive passing we should be looking towards players like Kagawa, not forcing our holding midfielder up the pitch.
 
Mystry said:
This season he's started 4 RB, 1 CB, 3 CM plus a further 4 sub appearances in CM.

Couldn't find stats for last season though.
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Minkaro said:
According to Transfermarkt:

RM - 1
CM - 15
RB - 19
CB - 19

Wikipedia reckons he's made 57 appearances for us, that's 54 there. So not exact, but gives an idea.
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interesting - seems he has been playing a lot more in CM this year than last as well
 
Thought he was excellent against Chelsea would like to see him given more games at centre back but he does a good job holding in midfield when required. With Evans, Smalling and of course Rio and Vidic its probably best he can play a number of positions.
 
Widnes said:
He started more games than that a CB this season, unless that's just his league appearances?
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According to whoscored.com he only started at centre back once against Galatasary. Surprised me too as I thought he had a couple of games at CB round about that time when he came back.

Probably explains his growth at playing in midfield with all the experience he's had this season.
 
When did he play RM for us?
Jones on the wing? Does he think he's Oshea?
 
People who say he'll never make it as a midfielder are aware he already has, right?

He's not just been tried in midfield in the odd League Cup game, he's played there in some of the club's biggest games of the season.
 
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