Phil Jones

I think we'll play midfield trio of Carrick, Giggs, and Welbeck.

We would play Rooney in midfield every day before even considering Welbeck in there.

Front three of RVP, Kagawa and Welbeck with Rooney in midfield is actually a very probable line-up given Jones is unavailable and SAF seems to want some drive in the middle to break up some of what Madrid can throw at us.
 
Apparently Jones isn't actually injured, he just trained indoors away from the media. I know this because he told me himself on chatroulette.
 
I really really hope not.

That's not a midfield trio, it's a midfield uno.

That's AIDS-like.

We would play Rooney in midfield every day before even considering Welbeck in there.

Front three of RVP, Kagawa and Welbeck with Rooney in midfield is actually a very probable line-up given Jones is unavailable and SAF seems to want some drive in the middle to break up some of what Madrid can throw at us.

My bad!

That should have been Cleverley and not Welbeck.
 
My bad!

That should have been Cleverley and not Welbeck.

Oh, in that case that's what I'm expecting too.

Carrick Cleverley
Nani Giggs Rooney
-- Van Persie
 
Apparently no Jones tonight, how big of a miss will he be after the first leg?.

I was very cautious about him playing in the first leg but the role he played i thought he did very well. I suppose it sort of forces our hand to play more attacking tonight.
 
Apparently no Jones tonight, how big of a miss will he be after the first leg?.

I was very cautious about him playing in the first leg but the role he played i thought he did very well. I suppose it sort of forces our hand to play more attacking tonight.

As Sultan said though, we're at home now and we shouldn't need to rely on a player like Jones as much. Jones played a vital role in the first leg and we got a very good result, however, this game will all be about outscoring Madrid.
 
Not very. Starting him at home would've been the wrong approach to take for me.

Dont know about that. We could do with his energy. But yeah, we have to start Clev tonight so it'd be difficult to fit him in anyways. I was really thinking SAF was bluffing about him being unfit but then some say he hasnt trained for 10+ days, so thats true then.
 
Cleverly is energetic too. Plus, he's sharp and quick. You need somebody like that against Alonso.
 
I doubt we'll start Giggs in this.

Front six should consist of Carrick, Cleverley, Kagawa, Welbeck, Rooney and van Persie.
 
Yep, but he wont put in the kind of shift Jones did. But yeah, his passing and movement far outweighs that. Has to start and i dont see how we could have fitted in all 3.
 
Thought he was pretty good in the first half today. Dropped off in the second when we had to chase the game though.
 
Thought he had a good game. His passing in the first half was surprisingly good too. Actually looked like a proper midfielder. Saying that, Chelsea were woeful in the first half.
 
Feel sorry for Jones really as he seems to fill in all over the place

Can't see how it is overly good for his development, then again at that age just playing top flight football is a great education.
 
In terms of using the ball and keeping posession, that first half was his best half in midfield IMO.
 
He was excellent for the most part. Didn't misplace a pass, won 4 or 5 free kicks by bull-dozing past players, pressed well and covered his midfield partner better than any of our other midfielders. Still a lot of work to do to be a capable midfielder for us because there were a few times he just didn't have the vision you need to play in midfield but very promising performance I thought.
 
I was quite surprised with him today. He looked pretty comfortable in the middle. Made some nice direct passes at times, and attacked the space a lot. Kept Mata/Oscar/Hazard quiet at times as well.

Just generally seemed more comfortable on the ball.
 
Pisses me off that we ever signed him really, has just taken over the John O'shea role of getting played in loads of difference positions whilst never being able to cement a place in any of them.

Playing him alongside carrick means we play far too deep and lack support for our strikers as well as the ability to play any kind of decent pass into the strikers feet.

I can understand the logic of playing him in midfield if Carrick is out because he offers something solid deeper in the midfield and something to build from. However with both of them in there we have about the most uninspiring midfield in the top 6 in the PL with both playing the same role with Jones doing it worse.

You can see why Pogba got pissed off when Fergie seems so intent on negative midfield choices in the big games, even if he'd got time here he'd have been dropped for the big games so that we can play someone in the mid who would run around for a bit. Of all of Fergie's strengths midfield seems the position he's never fully understood and was blessed for a decade by happening to have two of the most talented midfielders we've ever had but had missed with the majority of his signings in there because he seems to look for all the wrong attributes.
 
Pisses me off that we ever signed him really, has just taken over the John O'shea role of getting played in loads of difference positions whilst never being able to cement a place in any of them.

Playing him alongside carrick means we play far too deep and lack support for our strikers as well as the ability to play any kind of decent pass into the strikers feet.

I can understand the logic of playing him in midfield if Carrick is out because he offers something solid deeper in the midfield and something to build from. However with both of them in there we have about the most uninspiring midfield in the top 6 in the PL with both playing the same role with Jones doing it worse.

You can see why Pogba got pissed off when Fergie seems so intent on negative midfield choices in the big games, even if he'd got time here he'd have been dropped for the big games so that we can play someone in the mid who would run around for a bit. Of all of Fergie's strengths midfield seems the position he's never fully understood and was blessed for a decade by happening to have two of the most talented midfielders we've ever had but had missed with the majority of his signings in there because he seems to look for all the wrong attributes.

Wow, that's crazy on so many levels. You think Carrick plays the same role as Jones, you think he can't play any decent passes into feet and you think we made a mistake in buying Jones. I would say Jones will quickly prove you wrong but if after 5/6 years of watching Carrick you can't see he's an excellent passer then chances are that'll probably never be the case.
 
He really did look pretty accomplished on the ball today. Not just for a defender either.
 
Wow, that's crazy on so many levels. You think Carrick plays the same role as Jones, you think he can't play any decent passes into feet and you think we made a mistake in buying Jones. I would say Jones will quickly prove you wrong but if after 5/6 years of watching Carrick you can't see he's an excellent passer then chances are that'll probably never be the case.

The bulk of Carrick's passing is sideways and smart passing, of course he makes some great passes but he's the guy who keeps us ticking and its usually his partner tasked with making the attacking moves. I think Carrick is one of the finest players in the world in that position but he's never going to be the kind of CM that racks up 15-20 assists each season.

Carrick and Jones were both playing the same role of offering protection for the defense, not sure I'm wrong there.

It was a negative move to play both and I'm kinda glad we lost because the team who set out to play the better football played it and won.
 
I really don't understand him, today included.

He does a shift in midfielder in a holding role, but he's not a midfielder and I feel we cede too much impetus to the opposition when he plays there.

But yet we play him there pretty much without fail in big games, why didn't Fergie just sign a proper holding midfielder in the summer? Not that Jones has let us down, just that he has his inherent limitations and if we were going to play with a midfielder like him, why not play with a proper one?
 
The bulk of Carrick's passing is sideways and smart passing, of course he makes some great passes but he's the guy who keeps us ticking and its usually his partner tasked with making the attacking moves. I think Carrick is one of the finest players in the world in that position but he's never going to be the kind of CM that racks up 15-20 assists each season.

Carrick and Jones were both playing the same role of offering protection for the defense, not sure I'm wrong there.

It was a negative move to play both and I'm kinda glad we lost because the team who set out to play the better football played it and won.

What kind of centre mid is?! Even Scholesy never managed that. I think you're ridiculously harsh on Carrick's passing. It's excellent. He's been very incisive and creative all season.
 
The bulk of Carrick's passing is sideways and smart passing, of course he makes some great passes but he's the guy who keeps us ticking and its usually his partner tasked with making the attacking moves. I think Carrick is one of the finest players in the world in that position but he's never going to be the kind of CM that racks up 15-20 assists each season.

Carrick and Jones were both playing the same role of offering protection for the defense, not sure I'm wrong there.

It was a negative move to play both and I'm kinda glad we lost because the team who set out to play the better football played it and won.

How many are them anywhere? Do they even exist, and purely in the sense of providing from passes and not set-pieces? Nothing wrong with having two midfielders sitting especially away we just didn't take advantage offensively.
 
The bulk of Carrick's passing is sideways and smart passing, of course he makes some great passes but he's the guy who keeps us ticking and its usually his partner tasked with making the attacking moves. I think Carrick is one of the finest players in the world in that position but he's never going to be the kind of CM that racks up 15-20 assists each season.

Carrick and Jones were both playing the same role of offering protection for the defense, not sure I'm wrong there.

It was a negative move to play both and I'm kinda glad we lost because the team who set out to play the better football played it and won.
How many midfielders can you name that consistently play through balls to the strikers every time, as opposed to "sideways, smart passing" most of the time? It really is just a stupid cliché which doesn't actually mean much.
 
Jones has played next to Carrick before and it's looked fine, QPR and Villa away last season IIRC, think he might have scored against Villa. But anyway, he was bombing forward making those runs he does and looked great.

It was different today though and I get where you are coming from, he was much more reserved and clearly defence came first, instead of the box to box role he has played in the middle previously. Point is that I think this was tactical rather than anything inherently wrong with the partnership, Fergie must have wanted cover for Mata or something because he's played a centre mid role more expansive in the past.

Can see where you are coming from with your comments on the passing though, Carrick can fizz it into feet but from the distance he plays at he isn't going to be hitting through balls for Hernandez much, simply because he's too far away. It's no slight on him as a player or his passing, just the position he plays in the team.
 
What kind of centre mid is?! Even Scholesy never managed that. I think you're ridiculously harsh on Carrick's passing. It's excellent. He's been very incisive and creative all season.

Yeah I'm wrong with the assist thing. I'm not trying to be harsh on Carrick's passing, its not him who is the problem, its the combination of the two of them which is. Makes us concede the front foot in midfield and encourages people to attack us without giving us a proper chance to get our foot on it if we're under pressure.

Is it too much to ask to see us try and win games rather than try and sit back and nick them. We need to show we need to play like we're the best team in the country not a team who are flat track bullys and able to contain the teams around them
 
He plays as a defender even in midfield. He's fine as deputy for Rafael, or at centre back.