[Ephrem]

In that position the danger is the ball going across the face of goal. Get to the near post, cut the angle down, don't let the ball go across the face of your goal. You don't need to be Baresi to know that's the position to take up.

Are you saying that Jones should have predicted that Baily will play him onside and Darmian wont offer any resistance against the cross ? The game was placed at a fast pace and he couldn't get back. Are you neglecting the fact that Baily just allowed the guy whatever his name is to run past him like he was not there and tap in the ball ? Baily was ahead of him too but still didn't sense the guy running behind him ?

First goal was all Baily. Second was all Jones . That's my opinion

 

[Grunge]

No idea what happened to those two during the national team break but it wasn't good. Looked like completely different players to those that defended so well during the first three game of the season.

He was bullied off the ball too many times for my liking especially in the second half. His reading of the game was awful. He's weak as feck in the air against strong opposition. That goal reminded me of the one Giroud scored against us at OT in the final minutes and we ended up drawing 1-1. Jones again was on his ass. Smalling should've been introduced in his place after that goal

Should be dropped for Smalling. No way can you feck your team over like he did in that massive mistake. I rate him, but that really was abysmal.

I didn't watch Baily perform during the international break but certainly watched the England games. Jones was picked for both matches and was immense. That said, he has been overworked imo. As well as he played, by the end of the second England match looked totally shagged. Playing the first three United games and back-to-back for England was too much. Both he and Baily looked tired against the Potters and the mistakes cost us ... one or both will need to be rested for Tuesday. Based on the efforst he put in for the National team I think I would have given Smalling a run on Saturday.

So one mistake now equals being shit right
Does rashford performance for England against slovakia get shit on cuz he made 1 mistake?

I know! Lot's of very reactionary posters as always ... as much as I believe Jones should have been rested for this match, it was really only one costly lapse in concentration and not his entire performance today. Lukaku should have scored to make it 3-2, but he didn't; ifs and buts

 

[psychdelicblues]

Are you saying that Jones should have predicted that Baily will play him onside and Darmian wont offer any resistance against the cross ? The game was placed at a fast pace and he couldn't get back. Are you neglecting the fact that Baily just allowed the guy whatever his name is to run past him like he was not there and tap in the ball ? Baily was ahead of him too but still didn't sense the guy running behind him ?

First goal was all Baily. Second was all Jones . That's my opinion

The point is he could of got back but decided to check his run and turn back. No one is disputing that Baily was wholly to blame for the goal, i'ts that Jones could have recovered the situation if he done the basics right.

Here is Rio's take on it in the post match analysis of the goal.

........here you see Phil Jones here, who's had a very good start to the season..... you can't gamble, you have to defend that front post, he makes the decision to come out and gamble.....and come out to the edge of the box for....for a reason I can't see. Defend that front post he may stop that ball from coming in.

 

[POF]

Are you saying that Jones should have predicted that Baily will play him onside and Darmian wont offer any resistance against the cross ? The game was placed at a fast pace and he couldn't get back. Are you neglecting the fact that Baily just allowed the guy whatever his name is to run past him like he was not there and tap in the ball ? Baily was ahead of him too but still didn't sense the guy running behind him ?

First goal was all Baily. Second was all Jones . That's my opinion

You're completely hung up on whose fault the goal was. Yes, Bailly was far worse for the first goal. It was really poor defending, both in his initial defending and letting his man go.

My point is simply that Jones' error is far more concerning for the future. He is the senior partner in defence, the one who should be organising the back 4 and that was an incredibly poor decision defensively.

 

[Scorpy]

Just when you start thinking he's finally a reliable defender he ends up on his arse again.

 

[surf]

Rio has a point. Not to say that Jones is to blame for the first goal but the defence is a unit and part of their job is to help the team recover from any mistake, like Bailly's. That's a big part of a keeper's job too, bail out the team when someone else makes an error. So Rio's comment is not about whether Jones was to blame but whether he could have done better.

 

[Harry190]

I gotta ask though, beyond the tumble, why did we not have a man on the far post?

Just why?

 

[K2K]

He had a bad match and that's about it. It can happen.

How dare you be so reasonable?

Jones should be sold immediately and sign Baresi instead (yes, even at his advanced age he would still offer more than Jones did)

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

The point is he could of got back but decided to check his run and turn back. No one is disputing that Baily was wholly to blame for the goal, i'ts that Jones could have recovered the situation if he done the basics right.

Here is Rio's take on it in the post match analysis of the goal.

I thought Bailly and Darmian were more 'eye-catchingly' at fault for the goal but you can't argue with Rio's take on what a CB should and shouldn't be doing.

For me all three are culpable, which unfortunately makes Jones at fault for both goals. I certainly don't think he's suddenly become shit but I hope Smalling and Lindelof step up against Basel. Clearly Bailly/Jones is not an infallible partnership and a fresh look at our other options is welcome.

 

[marlowe78]

Just when you start thinking he's finally a reliable defender he ends up on his arse again.

He's really not. He'll put together a good run of games when fit. Unfortunately, he is often not fit. Will go long periods on the injured list then take a few more games to play himself into form. I don't think he's at all worth what we pay him or the time we invest in him.

It's too bad because he sounds intelligent and I think he has the right kind of personality to be a United player. I'm just sick of us holding onto crocks. He's one of the holdovers from the late SAF/Moyes/LVG period of endless injuries and should've been cleared out a while ago.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Think Jose missed a trick by not sitting him after playing for England but he possibly wanted Smalling fresh for the CL game.

 

[Treble]

3:1 United.

 

[Scorpy]

He's really not. He'll put together a good run of games when fit. Unfortunately, he is often not fit. Will go long periods on the injured list then take a few more games to play himself into form. I don't think he's at all worth what we pay him or the time we invest in him.

It's too bad because he sounds intelligent and I think he has the right kind of personality to be a United player. I'm just sick of us holding onto crocks. He's one of the holdovers from the late SAF/Moyes/LVG period of endless injuries and should've been cleared out a while ago.

Yeah, I agree with all of that, but even when fit he's very error-prone.

 

[Rossa]

Losing far too many shoulder to shoulder duels today against the likes of Davies and Rooney. Very odd.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Did very well today I thought

 

[villain]

He was pretty weak in the air today I feel, a couple of occasions his headers gave them a chance.
Overall he didn't play badly just a few misktakes which could have been costly

 

[Obiorahking_]

He was pretty weak in the air today I feel, a couple of occasions his headers gave them a chance.
Overall he didn't play badly just a few misktakes which could have been costly

It was only one header which put us in danger and he did lose out to Tom Davies a couple of times, nevertheless he defended pretty well today and was excellent in possession

 

[RonW]

Did very well today I thought

He gave the ball away twice in which Everton would have definitely scored if not for De Gea. He's an accident waiting to happen in future games, and then Jose will shift to Smalling or Rojo

 

[Obiorahking_]

He gave the ball away twice in which Everton would have definitely scored if not for De Gea. He's an accident waiting to happen in future games, and then Jose will shift to Smalling or Rojo

I remember it happening once off a header...what was the second time?

 

[villain]

It was only one header which put us in danger and he did lose out to Tom Davies a couple of times, nevertheless he defended pretty well today and was excellent in possession

Yeah like I said on another day it could have cost us, and all it takes is one defensive mistake.
Thankfully it didn't.

 

[Amar__]

Not in great form at the moment, two bad games in a row after some great performances.

 

[izec]

Started great, then made 2 or 3 mistakes, one was crucial and led to a goal chance

 

[ti vu]

He was pretty weak in the air today I feel, a couple of occasions his headers gave them a chance.
Overall he didn't play badly just a few misktakes which could have been costly

At top level for an ambitious club, few mistakes within a game is just too much. Stoke game he was decent bar the costly mistake, so it's still acceptable. This game however, he's all over the place with his defending. Stupid clearance and switched off at times.

 

[Isotope]

He struggled against a 100 y.o. Rooney.

 

[Scorpy]

Thought he was poor.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I think he was left fairly exposed by Young. As crap as Rooney and Davies were, not an easy job to be covering the whole left side by yourself. Shouldn't have lost the physical duels though.

 

[villain]

At top level for an ambitious club, few mistakes within a game is just too much. Stoke game he was decent bar the costly mistake, so it's still acceptable. This game however, he's all over the place with his defending. Stupid clearance and switched off at times.

Yep I agree, on another day that would have led to gifting them a goal or two

 

[Kostov]

He was better than Bailly for me, felt like both of them gave too much respect to Wayne.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Yeah like I said on another day it could have cost us, and all it takes is one defensive mistake.
Thankfully it didn't.

How many top class defenders do you know that go a game without making a mistake? Nevertheless he held his own today and popped up in moments we needed him to clear the danger.

 

[Obiorahking_]

He struggled against a 100 y.o. Rooney.

How is that?

 

[villain]

How many top class defenders do you know that go a game without making a mistake? Nevertheless he held his own today and popped up in moments we needed him to clear the danger.

That wasn't the point, this is a thread to discuss his performances, and his performance today could have led to a goal or two. That's all I said.


For what it's worth I think all of our defenders are great (not yet to be convinced by Lindelof but obviously it's too early) and Jones and Smalling especially get far too much criticism.
Nevertheless, I'm not going to pretend as though he didn't make a couple mistakes which could have been costly.

 

[Devil may care]

Working hard at being the sweeper in the duo.

 

[Isotope]

How is that?

Exactly. That's puzzled me as well.

 

[ti vu]

I think he was left fairly exposed by Young. As crap as Rooney and Davies were, not an easy job to be covering the whole left side by yourself. Shouldn't have lost the physical duels though.

Disagree. Young did well for his side. We clearly gamble with leaving Rashford then Lingard further up the pitch with no defensive duty. Jones clearly at fault for his shaky defending beside the duel. No one else to blame. IIRC, another Rooney chanc (where somehow Bailly's tackle missed), Jones clearly switched off and let Rooney, his initial mark, to go free.

 

[el3mel]

Thought he was good today. He needs to improve his heading, though, but did his other jobs fine.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Disagree. Young did well for his side. We clearly gamble with leaving Rashford then Lingard further up the pitch with no defensive duty. Jones clearly at fault for his shaky defending beside the duel. No one else to blame. IIRC, another Rooney chanc (where somehow Bailly's tackle missed), Jones clearly switched off and let Rooney, his initial mark, to go free.

They constantly sent crosses in on that side and brought it down successfully in good position because Young positioned himself too high upfield. Jones constantly had to come out to harry them before Young got back, compared to Bailey who had feck all to do on the other side. It wasn't his best game but it's naive to say that was all down to him. When he had a positionally disciplined LB like Blind next to him he plays much better because he doesn't have to second guess his option.

 

[Obiorahking_]

That wasn't the point, this is a thread to discuss his performances, and his performance today could have led to a goal or two. That's all I said.


For what it's worth I think all of our defenders are great (not yet to be convinced by Lindelof but obviously it's too early) and Jones and Smalling especially get far too much criticism.
Nevertheless, I'm not going to pretend as though he didn't make a couple mistakes which could have been costly.

But stops he made today would have lead to a goal should he not have done it. I see your point you are making with the 1 mistake he made, but if we were to judge defenders solely based off of the mistakes they made per game, there would be no good defenders left in the world. You have to take into account both the good and bad and today the good Jones did definitely outweighed the bad. Thus, in my opinion, I can come to the conclusion that he had a more than solid game.

 

[ti vu]

They constantly sent crosses in on that side and brought it down successfully in good position because Young positioned himself too high upfield. Jones constantly had to come out to harry them before Young got back, compared to Bailey who had feck all to do on the other side. It wasn't his best game but it's naive to say that was all down to him. When he had a positionally disciplined LB like Blind next to him he plays much better because he doesn't have to second guess his option.

I am sorry but I suspect you talk in cliche. Everton didn't cross the ball that much. They try to stretch play that side seeing Rashford was allowed to stay up front most of the time; to draw Young out and attack the space where Jones should be covering. This should be no problem for Jones in his good day vs Rooney. Instead Jones today lost too many one vs one and at times switched off and let Rooney run off him (off ball). Davies played on our right side is also needed to be taken into account. Sirgudsson for all his end product quality is not as good as Davies in term of linking up play, and off ball movement.

Another thing is Blind is smart and good reader of the situation, but to describe him as disciplined positioning is a stretch. He has a habit of getting caught playing his position his way and forgettin his role in the defensive tactic (easy to spot is offside trap)

 

[Obiorahking_]

I am sorry but I suspect you talk in cliche. Everton didn't cross the ball that much. They try to stretch play that side seeing Rashford was allowed to stay up front most of the time; to draw Young out and attack the space where Jones should be covering. This should be no problem for Jones in his good day vs Rooney. Instead Jones today lost too many one vs one and at times switched off and let Rooney run off him (off ball)

You are blowing this so out of proportion. Young did lots of space in behind though which of course is going to be burdersome on both him and Matic because then they have to look after multiple spaces at once which opens up our play. You are just making up a bunch of lies to cover up Young's lack of positional sense.

 

[AP88]

Huge fan of his and agree that he was good on the ball today, but....

He was erratic again in terms of positional composure, a few backwards decisions that went unpunished but were still alarming. Easily beaten in the air, muscled off it too easily.

He's got an impulsive voice in his head that implores him to do something ridiculous, and I thought he'd suppressed that, but it's manifested itself again in recent weeks; if he can't neutralise it, someone reliable like Smalling or Rojo should replace him.