Like a janitor?
4
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
Like a janitor?
As would I. He can start by cleaning the mildew and moss off my deck. A few lights need installing as well.
I don't see him ever becoming a top CB.
I wonder why people keep saying this. What was that three games? Its not like we even kept clean sheets or anything. I guess your response may be that it wasn't his fault or that we would've conceded more if not for him. His early performances are nothing to shout about.
Yes it was 3 games and he was voted MOTM in 2 of them plus 2nd only to Di Maria in the other - that's pretty bloody good in my book!
Indeed it would be. So why did you even need to ask the question?
More to the point, did you not watch the games yourself?
I did watch the games. He wasn't by any means great. We looked very lethargic in those early games. I don't trust Jones in that CB main role long term, the lad has a lot of improving to do. Physically he has everything you'd want in a top CB, but in reality he doesn't have much of a clue. His positional sense is usually off, highlighted recently by how he charged forward before we conceded our second goal against West Brom. In most cases he's usually able to make up for his poor positioning by tracking back and making a last ditch tackle, winning a lot of praise and getting a lot of MOTM votes.
In reality a lot of situations he gets in can be avoided if he had a better reading of the game. He is clueless and acts purely on instinct, needlessly throwing himself into dangerous positions that often get him injured, perhaps others will say he has heart and is brave. There's a difference with being brave and using your head. Jones doesn't use his head. We've had no nonsense tackling CBs in the past like Stam and Vidic for instance (or Terry and Keown outside United), but on top of that those players were also tactically astute and that's what set them aside, what made them flourish for years playing in big teams. This is LVG's challenge with Jones, to mold him into that type of CB who uses his head more.
Needs to lay off the steroids or Human Growth Hormones.
He's a bit thick.
I dont think anyone claimed he was 'great', I simply said he was our best defender at the start of the season (which he was by a long way), arguably he was our best player full stop over those first 3 games.
Worth noting that we were playing the 3-5-2 before he got injured so he comes back into a different system with a new partner (Rojo) so it will surely take a bit of time to settle.
It is true that his reading of the game needs to improve and sometimes he can make a rash decision, but the ability is there for all to see. I have in past argued that I actually prefer him in the defensive midfield role but I was usually in the minority on that and now that we have Blind plus a complete lack of CBs (well ones that can stay fit anyway) I doubt we will see him there.
The biggest issue for Jones is that his constant injuries have massively hindered his progress, if he could just stay fit for a few months then I have no doubt that he can settle and iron out the issues in his game to become a top class player.
This is the key point for me. I'm not totally convinced by Jones, and have reservations about his long-term future at United, but until he gets a prolonged run of games, he'll never get the chance to be a mainstay in our defence. I guess the same would go for Smalling.
That's my issue too, for both Smalling and Jones. I don't doubt their ability and potential. I think they both have it in them to be colossal defenders, but their injury records are dismal. Smalling seems to get little knocks and tweaks and is out for ages. Jones usually gets injured by being over-zealous. The way he challenges for the ball, or the way he lands. I really like him as a defender, and he reminds me of Vidic in the way he commits himself, but he's just a little too clumsy with how he puts himself about. He wouldn't be so injury prone if he was just a little more careful.
Honestly think we need Phill Jones in CDM, our lack of mobility in that area of the pitch is going to hurt us against the likes of Silva, Sterling and Oscar. Obviously he wants to try and cement his position at CB but this guy was class for us in the CDM role in the big games (Madrid away). Agains the big teams if we can have Carrick or Blind next to him then I think it would be the perfect mix between athleticism and technical ability.
Jones's defensive stats in those games were out of this world, astounding even.
Just saying.
What are the chances of him having a stormer against Chelsea?
I'm counting on him and Rafael to be beasts. It is the sort of game that they could thrive in.
It would rather be the sort of game they'll have a brainfart and costs us the points.
Care to post them?
Jones will be a top top centre back. His only major complaint as of now are his rash, impulsive decisions that go wrong from time to time. People forget he is 22!
Yeah all the ingredients are there. He just needs to make sure that he can remove the poor decision making from his game, which he still can at 22 as you said.
I'm not convinced Jones will become a top centre back at all. In fact, I'd say Smalling has better raw attributes in his favour to become a superior defender.
He's got worse with each game that he's played this season. He showed real promise In Sir Alex's final year but has been on a decline ever since. I trust Blackett and McNair in our defence more than I trust him.
I know what your saying but is that not over exaggerating?
Of course it is. McNair who started two games and looked competent, at best, over Jones? 
Not for me personally it's not. That's just my opinion. I trust them - Blackett more so - than him.
I don't agree with this. Pre-injury, Jones was our best defender and put in some very good numbers. He was one of the few players who benefited off Van Gaal's 3-5-2 because it allowed him to come out of defence and press aggressively. He came back against West Brom and was poor, but I don't think that should alter anyone's perception of the way he played before that this season.
FWIW, I don't rate Jones as highly as some members on here. He was guilty of making one big mistake every other game when he played at the back last season. His positioning needs to improve, but he's currently better than both Blackett and McNair.
It seems to be a trend on here nowadays, a player has one bad game and they are classed as not good enough, or so and so is better etc. It seems a player isn’t allowed to make a mistake, and if they do they are deemed not good enough. Our defenders seem to be getting it harder than most, mostly because they aren’t Rio, Vidic or Stam.
I’ve read the same type of posts for more or less every player this season with Di Maria being the only exception, saying that I’m sure it won’t be long until some are calling for him to be dumped as well.
His age has nothing to do with anything. He's been a first team player since 18. Thats five years experience which is a big chunk in a career. He really should be better than he is at this stage.
How many games has he played at centre back? He has had to play right back and centre mid while also being injured for a substantial amount of time so that 'five years' statement doesn't tell the full story.
It tells you all you need to know, though. He's far too injury prone to ever make it as a top defender.
RVP
We don't have the luxury of waiting that long on him. van Persie also only really had two seasons of top, top performances before being struck by injuries again and then declining.
Berahino wouldn't have to be played offside if Jones had stuck to his man instead of charging forward, creating space to pass and run into. While Rafael should be keeping with the line, his position is largely irrelevant in that a decent defender would let the two midfielders ahead of him mark the player with the ball.
He’s 22 so has plenty of time on his hands, further, we don’t have to wait on him, he is already a good player and will only get better as time goes on. I’ve never understood this notion some fans have that we have to get rid of a player when we have absolutely no idea if his replacement will be not only good enough but be a better player than the one we got rid of.
The same argument can be made for the majority of our team, Rooney, RVP, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Rafael, Fellaini, Falcao, Carrick, De Gea, Mata have all come in for unjust criticism this season for one reason or another. Fans seem to be impatient these days, maybe it’s because we are struggling in the league that fans are becoming impatient with the players.
It's a bit much to be writing off a 22 year old due to injuries. Quite a few players suffer them when they're young but grow out of them. If anything, Smalling is the bigger concern, as he's a few years older and doesn't look to have improved since he joined.
How did you drag my post up from page 13?!
Anyway, I still feel the same way. To me, entirely blaming Jones there is like going back to when the ball was lost 30seconds earlier and blaming that player for conceding. Once Jones has made his error then it's up to the players around him to react. Rafael doesn't do that quickly enough and plays Berahino onside as a result.
Jones obviously made an error and I'm not saying otherwise. Rafael should have stepped up though.
Sorry but it's basic 101 of playing centre back. You let the players ahead of you pressure the ball unless there are none, in which case you stand him up until support arrives. The last thing you do is charge the player and allow him to pass to another player to go through on goal.
This happens all the time, though. Jones is a front foot defender, and he was doing his job pressing the player. Kompany does this all the time for City. As Jones pressed, either Rafael should have recognised that and stepped up with him, or Rojo should have slightly dropped off 5 yards.
Personally, I think this comes from a lack of understanding, and it showed it was the first time that back four played together, which I think people are completely forgetting.
I think when the centre backs get to know each others play style, they'll know what to do in certain situations. Having said that, I do think Rojo is the wrong type of centre back to partner Jones. He needs someone like Rio next to him, in my opinion. Someone who reads the game exceptionally well.