'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

[Morty_]

Peps biggest failure at City, in my opinion, is as a squad builder, though in fairness, its not easy to replace the likes of Yaya, Silva, Kompany or Aguero.

Sure, certain players have surely improved under him, but at the end of the day he relied on the old-guard that was there before him, now they are mostly gone, and the decline is evident.

Good luck finding the next Aguero, because Jesus surely ain`t it.

 

[90 + 5min]

Thats an easy one. It’s because Guardiola already had a far superior team to Klopp when he joined his club, and both his net spend and overall spend absolutely dwarf Klopp’s at Liverpool.

Not only did the latter manage to build a team and wrestle the league title away from City despite this deficit, he also won the Champions League on the way to doing so.

But still you got to perform. I'm not saying Klopp is bad, far from it. What I'm saying is that people love to go at Guardiola wich for me is wierd. And at the same time, same people are making Klopp like a legendary manager. And when you compare them, you see that Klopp, despite winning some trophies last two years, still is behind Guardiola in lot of aspects.

I thought Klopp out thought him pregame and def got the best of the first half from it. Pep made the better choices during the game though.

I thought that after first 20 minutes ManCity were totaly in control of the game.

 

[Maluco]

But still you got to perform. I'm not saying Klopp is bad, far from it. What I'm saying is that people love to go at Guardiola wich for me is wierd. And at the same time, same people are making Klopp like a legendary manager. And when you compare them, you see that Klopp, despite winning some trophies last two years, still is behind Guardiola in lot of aspects.

I can understand people admiring the way that Guardiola can get teams to perform at times when he has all the tools he needs, but for me, and I think for many others, Klopp’s job at Liverpool is infinitely more impressive.

Just looking at the two starting squads, initial expectations and the size of their respective budgets/investments, and I think that Klopp’s job is on another level.

When you spend as big as Guardiola has, you increase your expectations, so it’s only natural that you invite more criticism when you have had so much in your favour.

The fact that he is possibly going to leave a squad that has no real left back, Kyle Walker as the only convincing rightback, a midfield with no real balance and only Jesus to replace Aguero is pretty terrible when your overall spend is approaching one billion.

Klopp sold well and reinvested the money. His big transfers all came off and he didn’t have the luxury of getting them wrong.

I just think that is infinitely more impressive and can understand the criticism.

 

[Hulksmash]

Peps biggest failure at City, in my opinion, is as a squad builder, though in fairness, its not easy to replace the likes of Yaya, Silva, Kompany or Aguero.

Sure, certain players have surely improved under him, but at the end of the day he relied on the old-guard that was there before him, now they are mostly gone, and the decline is evident.

Good luck finding the next Aguero, because Jesus surely ain`t it.

-

But still you got to perform. I'm not saying Klopp is bad, far from it. What I'm saying is that people love to go at Guardiola wich for me is wierd. And at the same time, same people are making Klopp like a legendary manager. And when you compare them, you see that Klopp, despite winning some trophies last two years, still is behind Guardiola in lot of aspects.


I thought that after first 20 minutes ManCity were totaly in control of the game.

- Klopp has a 6x lower Net Spend then Pep
- Klopp Took a lower team to trophie winners, City were winning Titles without Guardiola
- Klopp has won the UEFA CL and Pep didn't even reached the final without Messi , Iniesta and Xavi. Klopp has reached Finals with Dortmund and Liverpool and won 1y with Liverpool
- Guardiola spent alone 400M on Defense

 

[footballistic orgasm]

I can understand people admiring the way that Guardiola can get teams to perform at times when he has all the tools he needs, but for me, and I think for many others, Klopp’s job at Liverpool is infinitely more impressive.

Just looking at the two starting squads, initial expectations and the size of their respective budgets/investments, and I think that Klopp’s job is on another level.

When you spend as big as Guardiola has, you increase your expectations, so it’s only natural that you invite more criticism when you have had so much in your favour.

The fact that he is possibly going to leave a squad that has no real left back, Kyle Walker as the only convincing rightback, a midfield with no real balance and only Jesus to replace Aguero is pretty terrible when your overall spend is approaching one billion.

Klopp sold well and reinvested the money. His big transfers all came off and he didn’t have the luxury of getting them wrong.

I just think that is infinitely more impressive and can understand the criticism.

Another way to look at it is that he got 198 points (over the course of 2 seasons) with no real LB (since Mendy was injured, and for the same reason, he has a RB playing as a LB this season). As for the midfield not having a real balance, that's totally subjective and depends on the midfield combination a coach chooses. As for the striker issue, they've never had problems scoring loads and creating except for this season.

As from how much is a transfer considered a "BIG" transfer? In today's football, i don't consider a 50M transfer to be a big transfer...

 

[thepolice123]

Replace the jersey and with red and you have would thought that was us playing at our worst.

Slow passes, low intensity and devoid of creativity. Towards the end when they should be chasing for the winner, players were back passing and not running. You could hear screams from the sidelines.

 

[90 + 5min]

-

- Klopp has a 6x lower Net Spend then Pep
- Klopp Took a lower team to trophie winners, City were winning Titles without Guardiola
- Klopp has won the UEFA CL and Pep didn't even reached the final without Messi , Iniesta and Xavi. Klopp has reached Finals with Dortmund and Liverpool and won 1y with Liverpool
- Guardiola spent alone 400M on Defense

I’m not sure what you want to say with this? You have pretty much taken stats that are positive for Klopp but nothing that shows that Guardiola is great manager. You just have to look at Guardiola trophies. Sure, he was in great teams but still got every team playing ”best” football in those countries. After all, Klopp got 4 trophies in 5 seasons in Liverpool. Guardiola have 8 in pretty much same time if I got it right.

 

[VivaObertan]

He moves and drags defeners loads more than Kun did/does. He lacks most of Sergio's other qualities. One of the most common things said about him is he's a pain in the arse because he doesn't ever stay still and his movement is good. He benched Firminio at the WC for that very reason (even if he did have a nightmare tourny).

He pops into midfield or the wings more too. The one plus he has over Sergio is his ability to drag defenders out of position.

Thought he was one of the best players for City today. Surprised by how well-rounded his game was!

 

[sangria]

I’m not sure what you want to say with this? You have pretty much taken stats that are positive for Klopp but nothing that shows that Guardiola is great manager. You just have to look at Guardiola trophies. Sure, he was in great teams but still got every team playing ”best” football in those countries. After all, Klopp got 4 trophies in 5 seasons in Liverpool. Guardiola have 8 in pretty much same time if I got it right.

At the level the top European teams operate at, Guardiola has won 2 domestic league titles with City, and no European trophies. Klopp has won 1 domestic league and 1 champions league. The latter by itself bumps up Klopp's credibility more than Guardiola's 2 domestic titles, especially when you consider that Klopp has won a domestic title as well.

When talking about the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus and so on, the giants of the European scene, domestic cups don't even register, and domestic league titles are a given, with the latter only registering as a number of consecutive wins.

 

[adexkola]

Thought he was one of the best players for City today. Surprised by how well-rounded his game was!

He's not Aguero so there's that

 

[windco]

Will run away to Paris and statpad there, Pep Guardiola is my idol is very easy to guess.

 

[Maluco]

Another way to look at it is that he got 198 points (over the course of 2 seasons) with no real LB (since Mendy was injured, and for the same reason, he has a RB playing as a LB this season). As for the midfield not having a real balance, that's totally subjective and depends on the midfield combination a coach chooses. As for the striker issue, they've never had problems scoring loads and creating except for this season.

As from how much is a transfer considered a "BIG" transfer? In today's football, i don't consider a 50M transfer to be a big transfer...

City and Guardiola have played their part in making 50 millions transfers the norm, and it’s undeniable that he has spent a fortune.

The balance in the midfield is clearly an issue, as he just doesn’t have the players to play the way he wants. It remains to be seen whether a new coach can find a balance with the players they have, but it looks like a lot of 8’s and 10’s to me and no real standout candidates apart from de Bruyne. It’s an issue that needs addressed.

He played and won big for two seasons and it looked very impressive at times, but, again, expectations are risen and demands are greater when you have such a heavy spend and a squad that no one could come close to.

The only reason he doesn’t have a proper left back is because he chose the wrong options, wasted money and failed to find a suitable option. It’s the same thing with Walker. He has no other option because it’s another example of where he has overspent and failed to produce competition for him.

The fact is, that he has spent over 800 million on players and there are issues in the squad. That just shouldn’t be the case when you started with such a strong squad to begin with. He has spent more than anyone else during that period and has wasted hundreds of millions of pounds.

For all his spending, there are very few outright successes, and even players like Mahrez, who have contributed, are now, not even making the squad.

On top of everything else, he has totally failed to use the much touted youth system and hasn’t brought though anyone bar Foden in his time there. In fact, he has watched a number of talents walk away from the club and not sign deals.

There is a lot be praised, but there is so much to be criticized too, and I think you invite that criticism when you have as big an advantage as he has had.

 

[Maluco]

He's not Aguero so there's that

I know what you are trying to suggest with this, but not being Aguero is an issue. It means they are weaker overall for losing such a special player.

Jesus is good, but any team would miss peak Aguero, and it will be a loss to them in the long term if they don’t replace him with a forward as special as he has been.

 

[cyberman]

I know what you are trying to suggest with this, but not being Aguero is an issue. It means they are weaker overall for losing such a special player.

Jesus is good, but any team would miss peak Aguero, and it will be a loss to them in the long term if they don’t replace him with a forward as special as he has been.

Aguero is into his last 6 months of his contract. If Pep is missing an already injury prone striker thats on his way out then thats on him.

 

[Maluco]

Aguero is into his last 6 months of his contract. If Pep is missing an already injury prone striker thats on his way out then thats on him.

I would argue the same, it’s another position where they have failed to provide competition.

 

[SeeMe]

I think Pep is a good manager no doubt, at least he is humble guy. ( If you compare him to Mourinho )

Talk about Spending, Man City, Chelsea and Man United are top 3 in Spending, but Spending alone is not enough, if you spent 1 billion you have to make your squad value worth more than that.

Pep signed many 50-ish million players, but none of them are able to replace their legend like Kompany, Kun, Silva... His team is full of 50 million type of good players some just play for 1-2 matches per month, selling them at the lower price 2-3 seaons after that. Mahrez, Bernardo, Ake could play week in week out for other teams. Besides, I couldn't see many 50 million players turn 100 million under him.

Maybe the transfer decision is not fully under his control, but if we judge him by transfer judgement, I believe he could only get a ''C+'' grade.

People keep comparing him to Klopp, I believe what make Klopp better than him is Klopp get his players in, turn their value up to x2, x3. When he got Salah, Mane for 3x million, people laugh at him. When he signed Alisson or VVD, people laugh at him too, look how important they are right now.

I would give him a ''A'' in transfer market decision.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

City and Guardiola have played their part in making 50 millions transfers the norm, and it’s undeniable that he has spent a fortune.

The balance in the midfield is clearly an issue, as he just doesn’t have the players to play the way he wants. It remains to be seen whether a new coach can find a balance with the players they have, but it looks like a lot of 8’s and 10’s to me and no real standout candidates apart from de Bruyne. It’s an issue that needs addressed.

He played and won big for two seasons and it looked very impressive at times, but, again, expectations are risen and demands are greater when you have such a heavy spend and a squad that no one could come close to.

The only reason he doesn’t have a proper left back is because he chose the wrong options, wasted money and failed to find a suitable option. It’s the same thing with Walker. He has no other option because it’s another example of where he has overspent and failed to produce competition for him.

The fact is, that he has spent over 800 million on players and there are issues in the squad. That just shouldn’t be the case when you started with such a strong squad to begin with. He has spent more than anyone else during that period and has wasted hundreds of millions of pounds.

For all his spending, there are very few outright successes, and even players like Mahrez, who have contributed, are now, not even making the squad.

On top of everything else, he has totally failed to use the much touted youth system and hasn’t brought though anyone bar Foden in his time there. In fact, he has watched a number of talents walk away from the club and not sign deals.

There is a lot be praised, but there is so much to be criticized too, and I think you invite that criticism when you have as big an advantage as he has had.

That first paragraph is simply not true.

Their midfield has Rodri, Fernandinho (past his best yes but is still very useful) and Gundogan as 6's (Gundogan is also an 8), Silva/KDB/Foden that can all play as 8's, 10,s and wing fowards. Different profiles and all quality footballers, any coach that takes over from him tomorrow will be glad to have all those midfield options to choose from depending on how he wants to set his team up.

He has a proper LB in Mendy (whether you rate him or not is another issue, but Pep clearly does) but he's always injured. The reason why Pep is a great coach and why he's been able to do without the injury prone LB is because he has a system that's often able to deal with that issue and other defensive issue. And as for Walker's replacement, they have Cancelo who's starting to adapt well (even in the LB position).

You can say he started with such a strong squad but they never played at the level they started playing at when he arrived, and broke domestic records, so i don't see that as millions been waisted.

Who are the huge youth talents that left? Sancho left at 17 because he had Sané and Sterling in front of him, he wasn't going to compete with them.
Brahim Diaz ? Barley played at Madrid and funny enough i think he should have stayed at City because he actually had more game time than Foden when he was there.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

I would argue the same, it’s another position where they have failed to provide competition.

With his system, they've been the team that creates and scores the most (despite the injuries that Aguero has had), so i don't see how they've failed in that department.

 

[Pep's Suit]

Just looking at players who are unlikely to get extensions City will have to sign a right-footed 2nd choice CB (well, Stones could still convince them but I doubt it) and a DM. Then clearly they'd like to move at least one of Mendy and Zinchenko and if a new manager comes I doubt he'll want to keep both Gundogan and Rodri. Basically that's 3-4 players while Mahrez' City career should be over as well and nobody knows what will happen with Aguero who looked ridiculously unfit when he played this season. Just like many other teams City are in transition now. I think ideally they sign Tagliofico in January and extend with Aguero for one more season while a direct, pacy winger replaces Mahrez. Douglas Luiz been playing well for Villa and the same could be said about Herrera who's on loan at Granada, those two could be decent options for DM.

But right now the main problem is Bernardo, Foden and Mahrez simply didn't step up. They have to replace Sane and D Silva from '17-19 and right now it's absolutely not happening.

 

[adexkola]

Cancelo is doing great or maybe it's just me. I don't see LB as a weakness at all for City (although he is the "worst" defender of the back 4)

But right now the main problem is Bernardo, Foden and Mahrez simply didn't step up. They have to replace Sane and D Silva from '17-19 and right now it's absolutely not happening.

They don't have to replace D Silva and Sane, the same way we didn't have to replace Keane when he left. The system will adapt to new talent they bring on, because trying to find a like for like replacement for D Silva is fools gold. Ditto for Sane.

Agreed re Mahrez. Still early days for Foden, yung and learning. B Silva has proven himself at City already, just has to get back in the starting 11 (in midfield or on the wing). His versatility hurts him, I don't think he's performed worse than Gundogan for example.

 

[Maluco]

That first paragraph is simply not true.

Their midfield has Rodri, Fernandinho (past his best yes but is still very useful) and Gundogan as 6's (Gundogan is also an 8), Silva/KDB/Foden that can all play as 8's, 10,s and wing fowards. Different profiles and all quality footballers, any coach that takes over from him tomorrow will be glad to have all those midfield options to choose from depending on how he wants to set his team up.

He has a proper LB in Mendy (whether you rate him or not is another issue, but Pep clearly does) but he's always injured. The reason why Pep is a great coach and why he's been able to do without the injury prone LB is because he has a system that's often able to deal with that issue and other defensive issue. And as for Walker's replacement, they have Cancelo who's starting to adapt well (even in the LB position).

You can say he started with such a strong squad but they never played at the level they started playing at when he arrived, and broke domestic records, so i don't see that as millions been waisted.

Who are the huge youth talents that left? Sancho left at 17 because he had Sané and Sterling in front of him, he wasn't going to compete with them.
Brahim Diaz ? Barley played at Madrid and funny enough i think he should have stayed at City because he actually had more game time than Foden when he was there.

The first paragraph is absolutely true. They helped contribute to making that kind of figure the norm when they spent it on the likes of Walker and Stones.

I certainly wouldn’t call Rodri or Gundogan proper 6’s and Fernandinho can’t be counted from next season as a real option at 36 years old. At the moment, Foden is still just potential too, although he looks very promising. It’s fine, but after all the money they have spent, it should be stronger with better players and more balance. It’s fine to disagree, but I don’t think teams fear a midfield of Rodri, Gundogan and KdB. It’s much easier to play against nowadays and that shouldn’t be the case after spending so much money.

We will have to disagree on Mendy. He often looks lost and I think Guardiola has to play him because of a lack of options. Maybe Cancelo comes through and starts to settle. That would be nice when he cost as much money as he has. The likes of him and Mendy would have to come off for any other side. He has had the luxury of making mistakes time and time again on defensive players.

Young players like Sancho, Diaz, Matondo, and very soon to be Garcia, are jumping ship as there is no path to the first team. Not an issue now, but it clearly could become one in the future.

I just looked at who was there when he arrived, look at the squad right now, and find it very difficult to justify +/- 850 million transfer spend. It’s been really wasteful.

I think we have two very different perspectives on it, and I appreciate that. That’s what football is all about. I appreciate the calm debate anyway!

 

[padr81]

Cancelo is doing great or maybe it's just me. I don't see LB as a weakness at all for City (although he is the "worst" defender of the back 4)



They don't have to replace D Silva and Sane, the same way we didn't have to replace Keane when he left. The system will adapt to new talent they bring on, because trying to find a like for like replacement for D Silva is fools gold. Ditto for Sane.

Agreed re Mahrez. Still early days for Foden, yung and learning. B Silva has proven himself at City already, just has to get back in the starting 11 (in midfield or on the wing). His versatility hurts him, I don't think he's performed worse than Gundogan for example.

With regards Cancelo he's really impressed me going forward but defensively he gets caught out too much. Was very disciplined yesterday though. I'd love to see him at rb but for now needs must.

I think he's really excel at wb.
Something like dias, waker, Laporte cb with Cancelo and Mendy at FB. Kdb and gundo ahead and a front 3 of Bernardo right, Jesus centre and Sterling left. Overlapping wingbacks would suit inverted wingers. Pep would never give up the midfield for it though.

Agree on Bernardo, we're so much better defensively with him on the wing. Completely nullified Mane who was running the show when he came on. He might not get the goals Mahrez does but he offers so much more. Genuinely think a front 3 of motivated Sterling with Bernardo and Jesus would be a nightmare for opposition with the high press. Benching any if them weakens it a lot. Most importantly though he's much more of a team player and we are much less disjointed with him out of the team.

I can't see what Pep sees in Mahrez. He's talented and hasn't been bad but he changes us so much and slows up everything.

 

[Pep's Suit]

Cancelo is doing great or maybe it's just me. I don't see LB as a weakness at all for City (although he is the "worst" defender of the back 4)



They don't have to replace D Silva and Sane, the same way we didn't have to replace Keane when he left. The system will adapt to new talent they bring on, because trying to find a like for like replacement for D Silva is fools gold. Ditto for Sane.

Agreed re Mahrez. Still early days for Foden, yung and learning. B Silva has proven himself at City already, just has to get back in the starting 11 (in midfield or on the wing). His versatility hurts him, I don't think he's performed worse than Gundogan for example.

Cancelo's been very good but when him or Walker have to rest it's Zinchenko/Mendy and both are terrible.

True but I meant more like certain level of performances and right now it's happening for whatever reason.

Personally think City's 'best' midfield/attack would be Bernardo - Gundogan - KDB with Jesus - Kun - Sterling in front of them but clearly not in Pep's eyes. Spurs away next then two 'easy' home games then United away, exciting weeks ahead anyway.

 

[Bebestation]

Joe Gomez is apparently injured for Liverpool now too.

Pep has to win this.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Which will happen first, him running away or him getting sacked? Lucky for him that United, Arsenal and Spurs are doing so badly and they won’t get sucked into a battle for top 4.

Him getting sacked is out of the question. He is purely one of the talented managers in the world and if City sack him, it's one of the worst decision they would ever make. I could see him walking away from the club though because he knows full well that it is hard to motivate players beyond 3 or 4 seasons unless it is SAF or Arsene. He finds it hard to motivate players beyond 3 seasons. Lets see how far he can go and prove me wrong this time around. I see a future for him back at Barca again, they need him desperately.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm surprised he hasnt tried the false 9 player with his possession football since Messi.

Its arguably failed at the highest of levels with strikers like Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski and Aguero.

Either he needs to change something to get the best out of these type of strikers a bit more or change the game centrally to play a false 9 like he did at Barcelona.

Sure that is going to be hard because no one is going to replicate Messi's brilliance- but when you see who he plays out wide, players like Sterling, Mahrez, Sane from last season etc - you wonder if those are the type of players that get the best out of a central predatory striker or he should have a false 9 and get the goals coming from inverted forwards like Liverpool have been doing for a whilst.

 

[Pep's Suit]

I'm surprised he hasnt tried the false 9 player with his possession football since Messi.

Its arguably failed at the highest of levels with strikers like Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski and Aguero.

Either he needs to change something to get the best out of these type of strikers a bit more or change the game centrally to play a false 9 like he did at Barcelona.

Sure that is going to be hard because no one is going to replicate Messi's brilliance- but when you see who he plays out wide, players like Sterling, Mahrez, Sane from last season etc - you wonder if those are the type of players that get the best out of a central predatory striker or he should have a false 9 and get the goals coming from inverted forwards like Liverpool have been doing for a whilst.

He tried false 9 with Foden and Bernardo but they can't execute it. Sam Lee mentioned back in July that City were looking at players who can be used in that role but guess they didn't find the right one. But yeah if Pep stays it's quite possible that could be his next step with the team.

 

[adexkola]

I'm surprised he hasnt tried the false 9 player with his possession football since Messi.

Its arguably failed at the highest of levels with strikers like Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski and Aguero.

Either he needs to change something to get the best out of these type of strikers a bit more or change the game centrally to play a false 9 like he did at Barcelona.

Sure that is going to be hard because no one is going to replicate Messi's brilliance- but when you see who he plays out wide, players like Sterling, Mahrez, Sane from last season etc - you wonder if those are the type of players that get the best out of a central predatory striker or he should have a false 9 and get the goals coming from inverted forwards like Liverpool have been doing for a whilst.

Did he not get the best out of Lewandowski or Aguero?

 

[Hound Dog]

But still you got to perform. I'm not saying Klopp is bad, far from it. What I'm saying is that people love to go at Guardiola wich for me is wierd.

Why is it weird?

My assessment of him is that, given the players and resources he had available, he did Ok at Barcelona (6/10) and underperformed in his two clubs after that.

 

[Bebestation]

Did he not get the best out of Lewandowski or Aguero?

Not enough to win the biggest of trophies he was expected to win like CL's - atleast get them to CL finals.

Definitely not Lewandowski compared to how he is playing now.

You compare a wider creative player like Gnabry has done for Bayern and compare it to Sterling, Mahrez, Sane - you wonder if he has to make some changes in the way he sets up for the central players.

Maybe ferran Torres is going to be better in that aspect.

 

[adexkola]

Not enough to win the biggest of trophies he was expected to win like CL's - atleast get them to CL finals.

Definitely not Lewandowski compared to how he is playing now.

You compare a wider creative player like Gnabry has done for Bayern and compare it to Sterling, Mahrez, Sane - you wonder if he has to make some changes in the way he sets up for the central players.

Maybe ferran Torres is going to be better in that aspect.

That's a very arbitrary metric, by that standard, he's not got the best out of any player bar in 2 seasons. By that standard, Lewandowski has only had 2 seasons of excellence: the Dortmund final under Klopp and this year under Hans.

Also, speaking about Ibrahimovic, we are talking about a brilliant player who never the less, regardless of manager, has not made it to any CL final. Ever. This is someone who has played for excellent managers other than Guardiola.

Aguero's record in the big games is really good and he hasn't suffered from a lack of service as far as I'm aware. Does he need more? Otherwise I'm struggling with what adjustment you think is needed here in their attack.

 

[romufc]

Did he not get the best out of Lewandowski or Aguero?

I wouldn't say he got the best out of them, look what Lewandowski is doing now and what Aguero was doing before Pep.

 

[adexkola]

I wouldn't say he got the best out of them, look what Lewandowski is doing now and what Aguero was doing before Pep.

This is the first time I'm hearing of the idea that Lewa and Aguero underperformed under Pep, relative to the rest of their careers. Ibrahimovic, yes but that was one season, Villa was a much better fit. Not arguing the contrary because I don't have much info, just want to know more about this train of thought.

 

[Bebestation]

That's a very arbitrary metric, by that standard, he's not got the best out of any player bar in 2 seasons. By that standard, Lewandowski has only had 2 seasons of excellence: the Dortmund final under Klopp and this year under Hans.

Also, speaking about Ibrahimovic, we are talking about a brilliant player who never the less, regardless of manager, has not made it to any CL final. Ever. This is someone who has played for excellent managers other than Guardiola.

Aguero's record in the big games is really good and he hasn't suffered from a lack of service as far as I'm aware. Does he need more? Otherwise I'm struggling with what adjustment you think is needed here in their attack.

No its Pep who hasnt reached his level of of expectations not the players.

Pep was expected to be a CL winner want he?

Its not like Aguero and Lewandowski didnt score under him- but he is a manager with strict tactics and a style that can hold certain players back unnecessarily.

His only CL win has come under a possession based team that hasnt seemed too hard to replicate in different leagues except for the false 9 playing style of Messi. He bought Zlatan for that team, he scored alot of goals for that team but didnt look to the same standard compared to messi. I am just trying to link that type of striker to Lewandowski and Aguero and seeing if Man City might need a false 9 with the style of football they play, with the type of inverted forwards they play.

 

[romufc]

This is the first time I'm hearing of the idea that Lewa and Aguero underperformed under Pep, relative to the rest of their careers. Ibrahimovic, yes but that was one season, Villa was a much better fit. Not arguing the contrary because I don't have much info, just want to know more about this train of thought.

You are taking it out of context, they have done well for him too, but its not like Pep transformed them. These players were doing well before pep and Lewan is doing well post Pep so its not something special.

 

[PepG]

Actually Pep had problems with Mandzukic at Bayern, not with Lewandowski. Lewa played two seasons under Pep and to this day is grateful for the training sessions with him. Initially Pep had problems with Aguero too but that was only in his first season at City. 4 years later Aguero is a vital part of the squad an Pep is happy to use him whenever is possible..

 

[adexkola]

No its Pep who hasnt reached his level of of expectations not the players.

Pep was expected to be a CL winner want he?

Its not like Aguero and Lewandowski didnt score under him- but he is a manager with strict tactics and a style that can hold certain players back unnecessarily.

His only CL win has come under a possession based team that hasnt seemed too hard to replicate in different leagues except for the false 9 playing style of Messi. He bought Zlatan for that team, he scored alot of goals for that team but didnt look to the same standard compared to messi. I am just trying to link that type of striker to Lewandowski and Aguero and seeing if Man City might need a false 9 with the style of football they play, with the type of inverted forwards they play.

But we've seen City play with a more traditional setup under Pep. I think it was the 17-18 season when Sane was on the left and Sterling was on the right. They hugged the wide lines and provided that typical ball across the 6 yard line to Aguero and Jesus every game. He plays inverted now primarily because up till this season, there's been no reliable wide option on the left with Mendy crocked and Sane sidelined/leaving. Mahrez can't play on the left either.

This idea of Pep being dogmatic to the point of insanity needs to die. One can argue that in the CL he is overly reactive to the the point of neutering his team's strengths. But he's always worked to maximize the capabilities of his players. Saying "he hasn't won the CL so he may need to find a better false 9 or convert to a more.traditional 9 setup" is overly reductionist

 

[adexkola]

You are taking it out of context, they have done well for him too, but its not like Pep transformed them. These players were doing well before pep and Lewan is doing well post Pep so its not something special.

I don't disagree with that. But the insinuation is that he stymied their personal performance. That is what I was questioning.

 

[romufc]

I don't disagree with that. But the insinuation is that he stymied their personal performance. That is what I was questioning.

No, I do not think he did to Aguero or Lewandowski but there are players who have stagnated recently under pep.

Look at Mahrez, Bernado and the like who have been hit and miss for a year now.

Two players that would probably start most games at other top clubs.

 

[adexkola]

No, I do not think he did to Aguero or Lewandowski but there are players who have stagnated recently under pep.

Look at Mahrez, Bernado and the like who have been hit and miss for a year now.

Two players that would probably start most games at other top clubs.

Mahrez has underwhelmed for City (would probably be better in a ball over the top team). Bernando had a torrid year last year for City and an amazing one the year before, but he's demonstrated brilliance in a Pep side.

Plus, this isn't weird, players go in and out of form in every side. Look at Bobby No Goals under Klopp.