In about half a year he'll have completed his first full season and still hasn't won trophies. Absolute disappointment. Need Poch.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
Bolded the parts that don't go along.
Winning the league every two seasons is in a manner dominance though, at least in a league like the PL. We won 13 PL in 25 years under SAF didn't we? (I know SAF is better as I've detailed in the other post).
And it's hard to take the first season that seriously given a manager with a specific vision usually needs at least a year to drill his ideas into the team. So other than the transition year, that's two seasons of phenomenal peformances and back to back league titles and one disappointing league campaign. It appears there's no middle ground here. Three league titles on the bounce and it's a magnificent feat. Two on the bounce and he's a disappointment/par for course/bare minimum. It's such an absurd metric to judge anybody by. Especially when these aren't lean years in the PL. Liverpool are also a terrific team.
On the CL, it's a very hard competiion to win. Like I've said, managers winning 1/2/3 over the course of their entire careers I'd a huge deal. Thats what some top clubs manage. Also, City are, like PSG not a traditional European heavyweight. For them it's that elusive prize rather than something they're used to and at ease with winning. Again, he probably could have made a final by now but the CL is hardly a barometer.
As for the aura that Pep apparently used to have but didn't, he had it the last two seasons but fans have short memories. SAF lost his aura too with every second place finish according to some. I'm sure next season Klopp will supposedly lose his auto and Pep will regain his. Becuase, knee jerk-ism. Besides this aura thing is nonsense. Pep has always been a brilliant manager. For me, the best around. But everyone is allowed a year where they don't win a big trophy. Unless we're just making up arbitrary standards nobody can live up to.
Me too,I can’t see him getting sacked,but I can see him walking away at the end of the season...
Juve is “under financial stress at 30 Nov 2019” aka nearly broke 
, as for their latest financial communication last week, so they have to sell and can’t surely afford Pep’s all-stars, Panini stickers, mighty magicians requests... so it’s PSG or Bayern again.
, as for their latest financial communication last week, so they have to sell and can’t surely afford Pep’s all-stars, Panini stickers, mighty magicians requests... so it’s PSG or Bayern again.I love how the same posters questioning Ole's ability to get the best out of this squad, want to replace him with a Manager that can't get the best out of his much more valuable and revered squad. The same manager that has also wiltered any time he's been put under the pressure by any team during most of his career.
I agree with most parts, except for CL not being a barometer. CL is and should be a barometer. I don't speak about winning it, but getting asked to prove in the competition itself you are one of the strongest candidates should be a must. After three seasons at City, a fourth has just began, and Guardiola cannot claim to have his team any closer to winning it. He never surpassed quarter finals with this club, which is below par with the budget he has.
Guardiola is an amazing coach. He's proved to be very reliable if he has the best squad in the league (which is not easy at all, contrary to what many people might think) so he has done extremely well in domestic competitions, but playing down the outcome of his performances in CL just doesn't feel right.
Post of the century. Can't believe what I actually read.
Pep is a far better manager than Ole. He would do much better with our squad no doubt.
Not sure he has failed when put under pressure. He is getting wins in all clubs he manages. He has been poor in the champions league recently I guess, but that is his only flaw.
There's a point somewhere in there, but he's still obviously one of the best managers in the game. He's a big motivator though, so when the spark goes his team doesn't play as well. He's talked about that happening at Barca.
I'd take him at United any day of the week to get us back in shape though.
This thread at this moment is so much knee-jerk. So City had a slow-ish start, after getting some nasty injuries and bulldozing the league two years in a row, they are still second and the only reason this probably won't be fixed with a good run of form is because Liverpool are collecting points at an absolutely insane rate.
The differences between Pep and what he's done in England and Fergie, are quite vast. Fergie gutted a club and then built it from the ground up within a budget and set of financial constraints and no real certainty of the path ahead, until he'd cemented said team as a powerhouse - he showed, both on the up and the down (Glazers not supporting him financially) what it is to succeed in adverse conditions. City have been a threat for the league for a while - money and good managers has equalled titles for them. There's no doubt, no doubt at all, that Pep has then taken them on to another level, but the foundations, and a large percentage of a great squad, were already in place for him, and whatever he wanted was plopped in his lap. The expectation, then, is that he deliver the football he is famed for, with a squad that has little rest bite given it was so strong, even the likes of De Bruyne and Kompany could be out for huge portions of a season and them not miss a beat. It's an embarrassment of riches, hence, it being labelled 'FM with cheat codes on' by some, and even then, bolstering further in January, as they probably will do again, is not out of the question.
The points totals have been unprecedented, but outside of that, back-to-back titles, with only last season being a true race, it's not going to leave any great impression in the annuls of the PL until those who consider the asterisk of an unlimited budget are not around to point out why that should always be the case for any side with such an advantage over their opponents in the league. We've seen it at PSG, Juve, Bayern, with or without Pep - all he could add to the first two is more points and aesthetically appreciable accumulation of said points, if he's going to come up short in the CL. I would say it's the bare minimum wherever he goes where he gets the best squad, the greatest resources and the best bolstering when and as it's needed.
You say the CL is not a barometer, but then, should winning league titles with tilted dice be? How or why is that impressive? If you get knocked out of the CL in a formulaic, predictable manner time and again when faced with sides equally as strong as yours - something you don't experience domestically, or, when you do you fail handily and then bail on your club (should he leave in May/June) rather than show the gusto to regroup and reclaim - there is obviously an inlet, a weakness or frailty to what you're coaching. It's not bad luck; it's flaws not being addressed - if Pep never wins a CL whilst bouncing from one cushy job to another, whilst piling up league titles, will it be any enhancement on his legacy or will the cumulative losses in the CL knock him down a notch? I have no doubt the latter will follow him, should that be the case.
Pep's aura, like any dominant coach/manager who has preceded him, came from the notion his side would be a force to be reckoned with and one other clubs would hope to avoid meeting in the CL, or at least know the games could go 50/50. I have never, not once, had the feeling that City under Pep will do anything in the CL - I've made threads about it and voiced this even at their apex because they have never left the impression they were a force at that level. My impression of Pep is, invariably, he'll meet a team in the knockout stages who will present problems and he'll overthink solutions and his side will fold. There's been no evidence to the contrary of that since he left Barcelona; it's underwhelming for one hailed as the greatest coach on the planet. Opposed to that, you have Klopp at Liverpool, who I really fear may be about to turn them into a legacy side on the greatest stage of all. Chasing City as they did last season, playing as they have done for the last two years on a fraction of the budget; overcoming a supposed domestic behemoth; having faced adversity and setbacks... these are the hallmarks... I don't actually want to go on praising them, but the point remains.
Bottom line, for me, is that if Pep walks away in the summer, he's not done anything spectacular at City and he will have walked away with his tail between his legs rather than as a proud conqueror who has nothing left to prove and now needs a new challenge elsewhere - the threat is right there, on his doorstep, this would be the time to show some gumption and earn his coin, not when everything is stacked in his favour like it has been for the majority of his tenure.
FFS mentioning Pep and Ole on the same sentence you should be ashamed.
Aye
A manager whos won feck all v a manager who's won feck all when he hasn't had either the best club team assembled of all time, or a blank chesque with arguably two first team squads...
There’s not even a point in discussing the difference between Pep and Ole. There’s a reason why Pep could manage in any team he wants in the world and why Ole will struggle to find another job on any team at any top league.
Yeah but what do those clubs know about evaluating a manager, compared to the Caf?
Unbelievable. Some are comparing Ole to Pep now? What next?
That post comparing Ole to Pep is the worst post I've ever read on the cafe.
I mean Pep isn't flawless, but people act like he's the only manager who managed Messi, managed expensive teams and only manages great teams.
Ludicrous.
I mean Pep isn't flawless, but people act like he's the only manager who managed Messi, managed expensive teams and only manages great teams.
Ludicrous.
The same manager who broke the Prem points record and won 12-13 straight games on the bounce last season to secure the title?
Yeah he sure wilted last season
Yet again muppets reading into posts what they want to say. At what point did I say Ole was as good as Pep? What I said is that you want to replace a manager who cant get the best out of a squad, with another manager who can't get the best out his current sqaud. Get a fecking grip
I consider him a little overrated but c'mon. This thread is pointless...
They wouldn’t be if they had players like Mahrez, Jesus or Cancelo on the bench.
Honestly, do you really think that Klopp would reject better backups if he had a choice?
Exactly. This is the reason why klopp refused to sell the likes of lovren and shaqiri. They are relied on as back ups to the starting 11. It is City’s own fault not getting a competent back up for Laporte.
He has never wanted a large group to work with before so I guess he would. It is easier to work with a smaller group than to have a large assembly of top players. It might be better to have the depth but then again unhappy players are often really poisonous in the locker room. I personally think he has the players he wants at Liverpool and what he is really good at is spotting youth that can fill up the needed numbers. He lost control at BVB when key players left and he had to replace them with added stars and added numbers.His group was then gone and he couldn´t get the best out of the group he was left with.
Team needs a refresh/slight rebuild. Whether he stays depends on whether he wants to oversee it.
I swear we're obsessed about rebuild.
They're 3rd after having a 100 pts season, this is not a sinking ship, this is pretty normal. You dont always win every season
I know. I didn't say that. Expectations are relative. If City want to win the Premier League again next season and also win the Champions League soon, then a refresh of the current playing personnel is necessary. At the moment we're in the "decline" period that all great teams go through and it'll take a few new faces and maybe a slight tweak in philosophy to get back to our usual levels of dominance under Pep. Ferguson did the same at your place for his entire career - he'd win the league twice/three times in a row, have one year out where he'd focus on winning a cup and staying in the top four with what he had, and then go again.
1993, Winners
1994, Winners
1995, 2nd (+ Community Shield)
Promotes Beckham, Neville & Scholes
1996, Winners
1997, Winners
1998, 2nd (+ Community Shield)
Signs Stam and Yorke
1999, Winners (+ FA Cup & Champions League)
2000, Winners
2001, Winners
2002, 3rd
Signs Ferdinand
2003, 1st
2004, 3rd (+ FA Cup, Community Shield)
2005, 3rd
2006, 2nd (+ League Cup)
Signs Carrick, unleashes Ronaldo
2007, Winners
2008, Winners (+ Champions League)
2009, Winners (+ League Cup & Community Shield)
2010, 2nd (+ League Cup)
Signs Hernandez
2011, Winners (+ Community Shield)
2012, 2nd
Signs Van Persie
2013, Winners
1994, Winners
1995, 2nd (+ Community Shield)
Promotes Beckham, Neville & Scholes
1996, Winners
1997, Winners
1998, 2nd (+ Community Shield)
Signs Stam and Yorke
1999, Winners (+ FA Cup & Champions League)
2000, Winners
2001, Winners
2002, 3rd
Signs Ferdinand
2003, 1st
2004, 3rd (+ FA Cup, Community Shield)
2005, 3rd
2006, 2nd (+ League Cup)
Signs Carrick, unleashes Ronaldo
2007, Winners
2008, Winners (+ Champions League)
2009, Winners (+ League Cup & Community Shield)
2010, 2nd (+ League Cup)
Signs Hernandez
2011, Winners (+ Community Shield)
2012, 2nd
Signs Van Persie
2013, Winners
At the moment we're in the "one year out" phase. Not only are we in Pep's fourth year, but we've had a lot of injuries, a lot of our key players are in their 30s now (Fernandinho, Aguero, D. Silva), and Kompany left the club in the summer. We're gonna need this season to take stock. Football is obviously different now to how it was when Ferguson was around so we're unlikely to see Pep sticking around long enough to have three and four peaks with this team, but that doesn't mean a second peak isn't possible. Pep's said this week that he's "open" to signing a new deal beyond the 2021 contract he currently has so he can oversee a return to the top - probably because he's bigger than the club, everything at the club is set up to service him and only him, and that we're gonna give him everything he wants until he leaves.
Pep's a weird bloke. He's more likely to stay during a rough patch like this (by his standards) than a successful one. It's even been suggested by those close to him that he'd have walked last summer if we'd won the quadruple, kinda like how Zidane initially walked away from Madrid after winning three Champions Leagues in a row. At the moment he probably feels like he did in the 2016/17 season, where he felt as though he had something to prove to his doubters. He's more likely to stay at City now to try and win something again, just so he can stick a finger up to someone, whoever they might be. As I said, he's a weird bloke, but as long as he thinks he has doubters and as long as we keep giving him everything he wants I don't think he'll be off any time soon.
Another thing, although slightly to the side of the main point, is that I think we're having a bit of a funny season this year because not only are we in a mini-decline based on the past couple of seasons of dominance under Pep, but we're also in a much larger regeneration period after a decade filled with the same names getting us silverware time after time. Hart went first, then Zaba, then Yaya, then Kompany, Silva and Fernandinho are next, and Aguero after that. That's the spine of our 2010s team all gone. Right now we have lots of potential legends and fan favourites (Ederson, Sterling, De Bruyne) but nobody with the stature that the likes of Zabaleta, Yaya, and Kompany had at the club - in other words, nobody we'd build a statue for.
This is our first big rebuild. No other way of putting it.
I feel you lot will be fine as long as you spend big and spend it wisely. Considering your club owners care about your club and are run by people who know about football, I feel CIty will do much better than what we did. But it is very important you guys spend big next summer, if not you might struggle a bit.
Yeah, I'm sure we'll be fine. This season is hardly anything to moan about either. We're through in the Champions League and top of the group, we've got a great chance of winning the League Cup again, we're still in the top four and comfortably so - that's better than 99% of football fans ever get, so all this hysterical cracked-badge talk from our fans is nonsense. Our form would still good enough to win the title in most seasons, or at least be heavily involved in a title race, but Pep and Klopp (and Conte the year before, to be fair) have raised the standard so high over the last three years that it's being made to look worse. Liverpool have won literally every game bar one, the only reason they didn't win the league last year was because we only dropped 16 points in the league, and in the years before that the league was won by teams with 100 and 93 points respectively. The last three title winners (plus Liverpool this year if they win it as expected) have all been utterly unbelievable.
The slightest drops in standards are being punished much more severely all across the league because of how far ahead the top teams are right now. If everything stays at it currently is and everyone stays on the same points rate, Spurs are currently on track to finish 5th with 55 points (and just 14 wins). Chelsea are currently on track to finish 4th with 70 points. The gap between the top four and the rest isn't as large as the points tallies suggest in terms of quality (and obviously that gap between 4th and 5th will get smaller as the season goes on) but it shows just how much small mistakes are being severely punished now. There's basically a top three, Chelsea on their own in 4th, a bottom three, and thirteen teams in the middle who all seem to be about the same level for one reason or another and are jumping around the table on a week-by-week basis. If United lose their next two games against Spurs and City, which is likely, they'll have been dragged into a relegation battle in the space of three games. Everton is another example - after an hour of yesterday's game they were 12th, now they're 17th. Wolves were in the bottom three a few weeks ago, now they're six points off the Champions League with a total win percentage of 29%.
So with that in mind, a couple of slips (like us dropping silly points to Newcastle this weekend, or Wolves a few weeks ago) are going to suddenly create gaps of three and six points between us and Liverpool because they are absolutely not slipping. They're finding a way to win in almost every game they're playing. Sheffield United away, Leicester and Spurs at home, Villa away, Palace away - they're nicking tight games and opening up gaps in the way City did during this period during the 17/18 season. Huddersfield away, Southampton and West Ham at home, the Old Trafford derby - all 2-1 wins that could have easily gone wrong on another night. During that season it was United who couldn't keep up but otherwise posted a solid points total (81). City will do the same this year and probably accrue somewhere between 80-85 points while winning a domestic trophy/going after the Champions League, but Liverpool are going to get a crazy points total and turn it into a procession.
City are capable of matching them again next season, but is anyone else even close? Leicester might be but Rodgers clearly has his mind on a "bigger" job in the next 18 months, Chelsea could but are still a very streaky team with a young manager, Mourinho might get a tune out of Spurs but he hasn't been close to winning a league title since 2015, Arsenal and United's problems are structural and too fundamental to be papered over with a run at the league. As it is with football, someone will find a way to beat the best, and then they'll become the best, and the cycle will go round again, but I think City & Liverpool are in a position to win every league title for the next half-decade, kinda like how Arsenal & United traded the title between 1996 and 2004. This year Liverpool will do it, then Pep will come back next year, then Klopp the year after, and on it'll go until someone else is ready, both on the pitch and in the boardroom. The day of the super manager achieving despite backroom deficiencies are over - to win the league now, everything has to run like clockwork from top to bottom. At the moment the only team operating in such a way are Liverpool.
I agree football is a cycle but I am not sure if you or Liverpool could dominate if your managers leave, and in Liverpool's case everything can go down and t hey might end up bottling this title too. I cannot see Pep staying for long. As for United, well we are in a weird place. Our policy is to hopefully we get the right manager and things will start going up. I don't think this method will be durable but in football any thing can change quickly.
Yeah, Pep stays until 2023 at the absolute latest. He'll leave before then if he feels he's done enough.
Well Bayern doesnt count. You or I could win there.
Barcelona is questionable. He took over one of the most talented squads in history. Yes he took them to another level, but he didn't exactly have much domestic competition from an ageing Madrid Galactico side.
Then he comes to England, spends an obscene amount of money to finish a distant third, then spends even more to win it when nobody else was really challenging. This is the first year anybody in England has really pushed him and he's bottling it.
Obviously comparing him to Ole is daft but it's right to question this flawless legacy he seems to have.
Last season was...
Not relevant as it undermines his argument
Typical in this thread.
If he doesn’t win the CL this year he’ll walk. He usually does when he thinks he’s gotten them as far as possible. They’re also due a rebuild soon with some aging players and that’s a tell tell sign that Pep is outta there
One season in four. I expect more from the supposed best manager in the world.
2 Premier League titles, 3 bundesligas, 2 champions league's, 3 la ligas, 2 copa del rays, 2 dfb pokals, 1 FA Cup and others I have bothered to name.
How many manager's currently employed have a similar or better record in 3 different countries? Mourinho and....
So you admit you were wrong.
Would have been nice if Mourinho could have provided him with more of a challenge the season they got 100 points.
No, i admit he faced a challenge and won for pretty much the first time in his entire career. Every other time he's failed or walked away.
I'm not saying he's not one of the top managers today, but walking in to ready made success is not that impressive to me. Look at what he has achieved as a coach, with the players and money he has had at his disposal, and tell me you honestly think Pep is the only manager who could have done that.
IF Klopp gets Liverpool over the line this year he goes above Pep in my book based on having taken two average teams and turned them into something special against the odds.