'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
I do wonder what he was thinking with that formation? Lyon were always going to sit back so he decides to go with a defensive set up plus 3atb and a high line with very little creativity.
Just guessing here, but it might have something to do with him being 43 years and retired. Though I don't know what he is doing on the bench.
His style of football is terrible to watch.
What
Not a Pep lover by any means but unless you're of the opinion that the goals they score are repetitive I don't see how you can make this statement.There’s so much wrong with this post I can’t even....
Got schooled by every top team in CL until 1999 - semi final in 97 didn’t happen, foreigner rule preventing us from playing our best team didn’t happen.
Lost every tie again a top team until 2008 - semi in 2001, 2007?
Always had the best team and financial backing in the league? Blackburn 1994, 4th biggest wage bill prior to Abramovich.
There’s a lot of knee jerk unfair criticisms levied against Guardiola in this thread, but rewriting history and dumping on Fergie’s achievement in order to defend him ain’t it.
C'mon it's a knockout competition. Anything can happen. Even more so this year.
If it were actually a league, he would have won it.
If it were actually a league, he would have won it.
Hmm, which team we defeated in 1997? Porto, that’s it.
And in 2002? We eliminated the mighty La Coruna before falling to Bayer Neverkusen.
In 2007 we defeated Lille and Rome before being embarrassed from Milan.
I don’t know in what universe Porto, La Coruna, Lille and Roma were top teams but hey ho.
And then check how many times we got defeated from actually top teams like Real Madrid, Milan, BVB (when they were best in Europe) or Bayern. Heck, even in 1999 we won the most sided final in the history of the competition being totally dominated for 91 minutes.
Point is, it is an incredibly hard competition to win. Calling people frauds for not winning it more than 2 times only show how bitter redcafe has become in the last few years.
Fergie was the greatest, yet Guardiola matched him in UcL titles wins in his first 3 years, and Zidane surpassed him in his first 2.5 years. Just shows how ridiculous is the claim that Guardiola is a failure.
Pep has Fergie like achievements in the league and CL, but with the best and most expensive teams in the league and no history yet of being able to respond to challenges domestically (ran away from La Liga when RM finally got relevant again and we'll see if he can beat Klopp's Liverpool) and no Aberdeen in the resume (fairytale success with a stupidly small team which never got anywhere near that level before or after).
I strongly think Klopp's achievements trump Pep in the last decade. As does Zidane obviously. Would have said Heynckes as well if he wasn't retired for half the decade.
Pep's decade has been similar to Allegri's.
I strongly think Klopp's achievements trump Pep in the last decade. As does Zidane obviously. Would have said Heynckes as well if he wasn't retired for half the decade.
Pep's decade has been similar to Allegri's.
Like he won the PL this season, and not finished 18 points behind.
Agree.
I think the obsession with the Champions League in general is weird. It used to be a competition that had a lot of charm and glory attached to it but now it's become a validation tournament which despite the number of variables involved people treat as if it is the main determining factor for everybody's level and season. It's among players and clubs too (see Juve ) but I think it's well overboard.
TBF. Lots of bollocks in this post too.
There are a lot of differences between United and City. The 1999 team actually won it in their 3rd year in CL (1996/97, 1997/98, 1998/99). City’s team was already playing a few seasons in the CL before Pep arrived as for ages now all top 4 teams are allowed in the CL. So the
team has enough experience and failures so far and should finally learn from it. Coupled with Pep’s own experience of several seasons in the CL and the money they have spent, they should really be doing much better.
Then in 1996/97, 1999/2000, 2000/2001, 2003/2004, 2006/2007 United were at least knocked out by eventual winners whereas City regularly get knocked out more or less by random teams.
I agree that it is really hard to win the CL but City don’t seem to have made any progress at all in the last few years in Europe.
But it’s not all Pep’s fault. The mentality of their players is also very questionable and I am not sure how much they care about winning this trophy.
Complete opposite to Chelsea’s players Lampard/Terry/Drogba/Cole. They could have penalties, red cards, ghost goals, Ovrebo, etc. against them but still kept on fighting until the end of the games and season after season. No wonder they reached so many semi finals and mostly went out by small margins.
Totally cracking up at that mistake... I guess i truly am not a City fan
Bloody Bernardo!
I don't like watching it. It's terrible to watch. Not that hard a concept to grasp really.
It's not an exaggeration, quote me where he was build a team on decent funds, he always took over title winning, attractive teams at respective teams without having difficulties in transfer market and barely matched previous achievements.
Most managers would have won a lot with the squad he had when he joined, spent 700 million and is able mask his failures. He is no great coach or tactician either, unable to implement systems or philosophy into trophies.
If he wanted something to prove, he would have joined United, not an oil city from Barca
How does Pep do with the foreigner rule Sir Alex had to cope with? When that went Sir Alex really got going.
I think it was 96 onwards so thats 4 finals in the next 14 years. 96 is also the time he was rebuilding with the class of 92 so its hugley unfair to include the first couple of seasons following that rule change. Sir Alex underachieving in Europe is a bit of a myth. He more than held his own, especially when he continually rebuilt his squad that took us out of the running altogether for long term gain. Pep doesnt have that. Pep has been in charge of more CL favourites over the last 10 years than Sir Alex had in his entire career.
Pep hasnt reached a final for 9 years now since he left Barca. He will need 4 finals in the next 5 years to match Sir Alex uninhibited run.
Plus Porto and Deportivo were definetley top sides at the time?
Fans aren't having a go at Pep for not winning, they arent even competing.
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It was SAF’s fifth year in UCL with United when we won it. Got eliminated from Galatasaray the first time around, then didn’t pass the group stage in a group with Galatasaray, Barcelona, and Gotenburg, then next time we qualified from it BVB defeated us home and away, to then get eliminated from Monaco in the fourth season.
And @Revan as far as the “most one sided final in the history of the competition” is concerned:
https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.ind...ions-league-final-statsbomb-a8928266.html?amp
It also says:
“As the cumulative chart above shows, the game was as close as it seemed to anyone watching. Bayern shaded the first half in terms of chance created, but United came back in the second. This was an even contest. Until stoppage time, that is.”
Now I don’t know how accurate the above stats are, but other sites’ stats also show that we were more dominant.
We had more possession, more corners and more shots on target.
It’s a myth and the fairytale just sounds better if it is said that Bayern dominated but that season’s regular comeback kings United did it again in the very last minutes.
Bayern hit the woodwork twice yes, but from memory (and backed by the stats) it was an even game. We were never going to do even more than that with Keane and Scholes suspended. I expected much worse.
https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.ind...ions-league-final-statsbomb-a8928266.html?amp
It also says:
“As the cumulative chart above shows, the game was as close as it seemed to anyone watching. Bayern shaded the first half in terms of chance created, but United came back in the second. This was an even contest. Until stoppage time, that is.”
Now I don’t know how accurate the above stats are, but other sites’ stats also show that we were more dominant.
We had more possession, more corners and more shots on target.
It’s a myth and the fairytale just sounds better if it is said that Bayern dominated but that season’s regular comeback kings United did it again in the very last minutes.
Bayern hit the woodwork twice yes, but from memory (and backed by the stats) it was an even game. We were never going to do even more than that with Keane and Scholes suspended. I expected much worse.
It was mostly a different team from 1995/96 (and that year we weren’t in the CL as we didn’t win the league the previous season). So for the vast majority of the 99 winning team it was their 3rd year in the CL.
Pep Guardiola is the Sebastian Vettel of football.
Not so easy. Sarri said if it was a league, they would have won it.
Roma WAS a top team when we beat them. We lost that first leg and there was a reason our 7-1 is such a famous win.
Milan didn't 'destroy' us in that tie, we won the first leg despite having a thin squad and had our first choice cbs out for the 2nd leg. This is the tie where Kaka's performances got blown out of proportion and won him the balon d'or.
The depor team of that early 00s was quite strong too, maybe you weren't around at that time. You can't have it both ways, that you want to claim a team is strong and 'destroyed' us when we lose but say that we beat cannon fodder or were lucky to win whenever we did because it suits your narrative.
Always been a bit of a Pep fan and would have loved him to come here after Sir Alex. For me, he has been probably the second best manager after our Gaffer for a long time. But his time in Munich, and now at City has confirmed something for me.
I think, as brilliant as Pep is, a master tactician and innovator, he has been somewhat lacking in man management skills, in terms of motivation and inspiration, which often provides the squad, that extra bit of passion which is required to make the final push. This is something which all of the elite managers of the past and present, the likes of Jose, Klopp, Ancelotti have had. He just is too much into his own mind, cold and calculative, tweaking his tactics, brainstorming but has consistently failed to wring out that extra something from the players in the most crucial of circumstances, other than at Barcelona, of course. This is exactly why I am beginning to think he will never win an UCL or an international trophy if he manages a national team.
I think, as brilliant as Pep is, a master tactician and innovator, he has been somewhat lacking in man management skills, in terms of motivation and inspiration, which often provides the squad, that extra bit of passion which is required to make the final push. This is something which all of the elite managers of the past and present, the likes of Jose, Klopp, Ancelotti have had. He just is too much into his own mind, cold and calculative, tweaking his tactics, brainstorming but has consistently failed to wring out that extra something from the players in the most crucial of circumstances, other than at Barcelona, of course. This is exactly why I am beginning to think he will never win an UCL or an international trophy if he manages a national team.
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I don't believe man management and motivating is his issue here. Those are things he's actually good at. It's more to do with his obessession of adapting to the opposition and tinkering that have been his issue in the knockout stages, Muller highlighted this a few months back in a interview with his time in Bayern Munich and even KdB somewhat forshadowed it that the team wasn't playing to its strength.
Yeah I kinda agree never understood people logic that X player/manager is bought in to win CL? I mean yes every big club + plus oil clubs want to strive for the CL but that is not guaranteed you'll win it. It's even funny because if Pep is considered a failure to win the CL for City with all the investment made, then so are Aguero, Silva, FDingo, KdB, Laporte, Sterling, Kompany, Yaya, etc because they were also bought in for the same reason and the club spent billions to bring in even more talents to surround them with and various different managers.
The thing is, I find looking at managerial achievements without looking at the teams they had at their disposal to be ludicrous.
How do you rate Frank Rijkaard as a manager?
Peak Barcelona was only fun to watch if you were a Barcelona fan. I find the whole stifling the game by keeping the ball between your CB's or midfield trio as bad as long ball. I think the guy has a point. It's just seen as a purist's football because they actually have the ball.What
Allegri?? A bit harsh. Also it’s not like Zidane has a fairytale story with a small club in his resume. He took over the one club that can outspend anyone and is still yet to have prolonged ‘domestic’ success with them. People forget that Barca were winning the league when Madrid were winning the CL. And it could also be argued that he left the first time when the ship was about to sink. So I don’t think we can say Zidane has proved to be better than Pep this past decade. However, unfortunately, Klopp is proving otherwise because of all the points you mentioned.
At this point, everybody's got to admit that this isn't just bad luck and there is a clear pattern with Pep having problems in KO games, right?
Agreed.
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He sometimes complicates things by thinking too much. It is a recurring theme among outstanding managers.
@Revan is having a right mare here. I'm sure he doesn't remember our injuries and the run we had if he is saying we got embarassed by Milan. We lined up with Heinze, Brown, Vidic and O'Shea due to the defensive injuries we had. What a joke.
As for Pep, great coach but Messi is the reason he has UCLs. Tinkers too much. Brilliant league manager though.
As for Pep, great coach but Messi is the reason he has UCLs. Tinkers too much. Brilliant league manager though.
Yeah, other clubs had no injuries ever.
Pep doesn't have to win the CL, though after so many years and ~1 billion he should, but getting eliminated against the likes of Lyon, Monaco and Spurs? Absolutely pathetic.
He isn't a fraud but he tends to overcomplicate things.
Winning UCL has some luck to it but he doesn't help his luck by over thinking things. Your team is better than Lyon's, just play them and be done with the game.
Winning UCL has some luck to it but he doesn't help his luck by over thinking things. Your team is better than Lyon's, just play them and be done with the game.
I have always thought Fergie under achieved in the champions league and for me it tends to give me doubts when he is placed as the greatest ever manager and any discussion to that effect is considered a reproach.
He definitely should have achieved more with the team he had.
They were stunning at their best. It was Spain that used possession primarily to defend and won the entire world cup oon a run of 1-0s. Spain played a 4231 with Alonso and Busquets holding and Iniesta on the wing, Barca played a 433 with Busquets alone at the base, two real wingers (Villa and Pedro), and an extra forward - Messi.
Spain's best game was the 4-0 in the Euro 2012 final against an injured and generally off Italy team, with 2 goals coming in the last 10 minutes against nine men. Jose's Madrid came to Barca on a 10-match unbeaten streak and conceded 2 in the first half (both were long passing moves) and then 2 on the break in the second half (Messi assisting Villa) and finally another after Ramos got sent off. Madrid had I think one chance all game. That Barca team was a different beast.
Now this is an amusing thread.