'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

[padr81]

Ohh definitely this is his worst season. I think you guys will improve but you have to spend more just like the backing he received in 2017 summer transfer. Silva is gone, Kompany is being missed, Fernandinho is no longer the same Fernandinho from 2017, Aguero is also getting older. I feel you have been too over reliant on KDB this season. Likes of Gundogan and Rodri have been average at best. Foden looks like a proper talent but Pep for some weird reason has not yet made him a regular. Massive summer for you guys.

I don't think we need that much in the window, we just need some hunger back, Pep to pick the right team and most importantly to stop leaving our CB's 2 v 3 with opposition attackers on the break. We could have Baresi and Maldini back there and leaving 2 v 3 vs Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, or Salah, Mane, Firmino or any 3 with pace and they'd get mullered.

I said Klopp needed to adapt at Liverpool and he did. Sir Alex adapted at United to what he had availabe. Pep doesn't seem to want to and his stubborness could be his downfall. If you don't learn, improve and adapt you get left behind. Another hiding by Klopp and CL disaster next year and his reputation will be in tatters. People will start talking about him like they do Jose (hell, some have already albeit unfairly). Its up to Pep on whether he lets football pass him by or not.

 

[padr81]

Yeah, spot on! it makes zero sense. Pep turning from power and pace and direct football and fast counters during 2017-2019 to sideways passing, wingers cutting inside, walking, no pressing and just overall this slow, slow football. Like I wrote in another thread: he's doing an Arsenal and signing right players for that: Rodri, Ake, Torres... It's possible City will start games with this XI next season:

Ederson
Cancelo - Fernandinho - Ake - Mendy
Bernardo - Rodri - Gundogan
Mahrez - Jesus - Torres

That genuinely looks like a 4th PL / Last-16 CL team and nothing more.

Fair but I would say if you take the top 3 players out of any team we could say that. No matter whose around them, having the bolded 2 in the team with Rodri 6 and Gundo 8 and we're at best a top 4 team.

 

[Bepi]

I don't think we need that much in the window, we just need some hunger back, Pep to pick the right team and most importantly to stop leaving our CB's 2 v 3 with opposition attackers on the break. We could have Baresi and Maldini back there and leaving 2 v 3 vs Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, or Salah, Mane, Firmino or any 3 with pace and they'd get mullered.

I said Klopp needed to adapt at Liverpool and he did. Sir Alex adapted at United to what he had availabe. Pep doesn't seem to want to and his stubborness could be his downfall. If you don't learn, improve and adapt you get left behind. Another hiding by Klopp and CL disaster next year and his reputation will be in tatters. People will start talking about him like they do Jose (hell, some have already albeit unfairly). Its up to Pep on whether he lets football pass him by or not.

I am not sure anyone within your squad can still take him seriously, though. And I wonder how you, as a fan, still do, really. He is a proven fraud, at this time, year after year, Bayern and City are just the proof he was a one-squad pony milking a career out of that. Not that it matters, though... point is put him into the same situation again and will he learn from his past? We will see.

 

[padr81]

I am not sure anyone within your squad can still take him seriously, though. And I wonder how you, as a fan, still do, really. He is a proven fraud, at this time, year after year, Bayern and City are just the proof he was a one-squad pony milking a career out of that. Not that it matters, though... point is put him into the same situation again and will he learn from his past? We will see.

Its ridiculous to say proven fraud. He has something like 9 league titles and 2 Champions Leagues in 11 seasons as a manager... If Pep is a fraud, Sir Alex is probably the only manager who can claim not to be a fraud in recent memory.

If you think he wouldn't walk into any club not named Liverpool in the world and improve them than you are sorely mistaken.

 

[Dansk]

Since Barcelona, where he inherited 3 of the best players in history, hes managed to win a one horse race in Germany and a couple of leagues here with the most expensive football team ever assembled.

And this during a period of time where most of the competition has been rebuilding or otherwise floundering. United, Chelsea and Arsenal haven't exactly made it hard for City to win. After all, we're talking about an era where fecking Leicester won the league. Pep couldn't have wished for an easier time.

 

[glazed]

Like he won the PL this season, and not finished 18 points behind.

Winning the PL three times on the spin is a pretty big ask. I know SAF did it twice but he was unique and it was different times.

 

[Bepi]

Its ridiculous to say proven fraud. He has something like 9 league titles and 2 Champions Leagues in 11 seasons as a manager... If Pep is a fraud, Sir Alex is probably the only manager who can claim not to be a fraud in recent memory.

If you think he wouldn't walk into any club not named Liverpool in the world and improve them than you are sorely mistaken.

For the resources he was allowed to invest, the return is pretty meh. He can just carry on with no restraint because of.... uh, we know both.

 

[glazed]

Not so easy. Sarri said if it was a league, they would have won it.

I mean he would have won it at some point since leaving Barca.

 

[glazed]

He didnt even win his own league mate.

He won it twice in a row IIRC

 

[Carl]

He won it twice in a row IIRC

Right? But this season, the season you're referring to, they finished miles behind the leaders. So what is there to suggest they would have won the CL if it was league format?

 

[ivaldo]

Its ridiculous to say proven fraud. He has something like 9 league titles and 2 Champions Leagues in 11 seasons as a manager... If Pep is a fraud, Sir Alex is probably the only manager who can claim not to be a fraud in recent memory.

If you think he wouldn't walk into any club not named Liverpool in the world and improve them after being given £300m to spend than you are sorely mistaken.

Just updated that for you.

He's no fraud, but his achievements in the game are grossly exaggerated. Plenty still claim he was a better manager than Fergie, which is becoming sillier every year.

 

[padr81]

For the resources he was allowed to invest, the return is pretty meh. He can just carry on with no restraint because of.... uh, we know both.

We don't know.. do tell.

 

[Tincanalley]

Could the post match de Bruyne interview be a hint of player disquiet? Maybe the threat of a two year ban got people’s heads to other places? To me last night was an unfocussed display, more than anything.

 

[padr81]

Just updated that for you.

He's no fraud, but his achievements in the game are grossly exaggerated. Plenty still claim he was a better manager than Fergie, which is becoming sillier every year.

Plenty still claim he's a worse manager than Jose too... sadly football is full of extremely stupid views that are overly exaggerated based on one season.

He would improve most teams with zero money. Would he win the league? Unlikely. You have him the current United squad they'd be better, current Chelsea squad better, current Juve squad better (no way they'd almost throw away a 1 horse league) etc.. He might not beat Liverpool or City over the course of the league with them but they would be far better. The bottom line is no manager has been as dominant in domestic football after him with the squads they've inherited from him.

He's been very lucky to have the resources he has had but he would improve any team in world football for sure.

 

[padr81]

Could the post match de Bruyne interview be a hint of player disquiet? Maybe the threat of a two year ban got people’s heads to other places? To me last night was an unfocussed display, more than anything.

I didn't hear any of that in that interview, where do people pull this from. De Bruyne literally blamed player mistakes for our exit and said its the same thing that happens all the time. When he was asked about the system he pretty much just answered honestly like he always does.

 

[cyberman]

Plenty still claim he's a worse manager than Jose too... sadly football is full of extremely stupid views that are overly exaggerated based on one season.

He would improve most teams with zero money. Would he win the league? Unlikely. You have him the current United squad they'd be better, current Chelsea squad better, current Juve squad better (no way they'd almost throw away a 1 horse league) etc.. He might not beat Liverpool or City over the course of the league with them but they would be far better. The bottom line is no manager has been as dominant in domestic football after him with the squads they've inherited from him.

He's been very lucky to have the resources he has had but he would improve any team in world football for sure.

I honestly think that Jose with Citys budget would have won a few leagues over the last 4 years.
He can get rid of trouble makers so changing room harmony is less of a factor, he hasnt got Citys history on his shoulders and he can just continually buy older players that he would know would follow instructuons. He would force through his 2 year cycle. He would also fail in Europe because top sides have figured him out as well.
When Jose lost his budgets, he disappeared.

 

[Paolo Di Canio]

Id give him another season

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

They will never sack him, but he will walk away at some point. He will decide when to go.

 

[Speedy30]

I'll say again what I've said before... If you substituted Klopp for Pep back in October 2015 and gave him the same budget that Klopp has had, would Liverpoolo currently be the Premier League champions and have won the Champions League as well? In my opinion, no chance! He is a great manager but he's not the best and I would put him below Fergie, peak Mourinho and Klopp in a list of all time Premier League managers.

 

[Zehner]

Plenty still claim he's a worse manager than Jose too... sadly football is full of extremely stupid views that are overly exaggerated based on one season.

He would improve most teams with zero money. Would he win the league? Unlikely. You have him the current United squad they'd be better, current Chelsea squad better, current Juve squad better (no way they'd almost throw away a 1 horse league) etc.. He might not beat Liverpool or City over the course of the league with them but they would be far better. The bottom line is no manager has been as dominant in domestic football after him with the squads they've inherited from him.

He's been very lucky to have the resources he has had but he would improve any team in world football for sure.

I think that's a very good way of putting it. Obviously he underperformed trophy-wise in the CL after leaving Barca, no denying that. He admits it himself. But Liverpool to me is the only team that wouldn't profit from swapping managers with City and even that's debatable.

However, he definitely has to question himself. If you have so dominant and strong teams but go out in the CL year after year, chances are there's an underlying cause for it.

 

[ivaldo]

Plenty still claim he's a worse manager than Jose too... sadly football is full of extremely stupid views that are overly exaggerated based on one season.

He would improve most teams with zero money. Would he win the league? Unlikely. You have him the current United squad they'd be better, current Chelsea squad better, current Juve squad better (no way they'd almost throw away a 1 horse league) etc.. He might not beat Liverpool or City over the course of the league with them but they would be far better. The bottom line is no manager has been as dominant in domestic football after him with the squads they've inherited from him.

He's been very lucky to have the resources he has had but he would improve any team in world football for sure.

As of right now? I've not seen any. In terms of what he's achieved over his career then there's a very credible argument to be made.

He needs very specific players to play his style of football, so no, I don't agree he'll improve any team by simply walking through the door.

No club? He's only ever left 2 behind! One of them had perhaps the greatest collection of footballers in history breaking into the first team, and the other had won the treble the season before, which he failed to emulate. So if you want to play that game, you could argue he made one of them worse. Now he's come to City, spent over £300m on your defense, and if anything, made it worse.

Serious questions need to be asked of Pep. When you can only perform with world class players and spend an absolute fortune to get to the level the team needs to be at, there needs to be correlating results.

 

[padr81]

I honestly think that Jose with Citys budget would have won a few leagues over the last 4 years.
He can get rid of trouble makers so changing room harmony is less of a factor, he hasnt got Citys history on his shoulders and he can just continually buy older players that he would know would follow instructuons. He would force through his 2 year cycle. He would also fail in Europe because top sides have figured him out as well.
When Jose lost his budgets, he disappeared.

Jose was a disaster with you guys, people still somehow see the Jose of 2007 as the post Madrid Jose of 2017. Jose's star burnt out pretty fast from the pressure at Madrid, football passed him by because he refused to change. Pep is a far superior manager currently and has been for 5 or 6 years, but.. its come to the point where like Jose he'll either adapt or get left behind thanks to his tactical stubborness. Jose should be a lesson to Pep.

 

[padr81]

As of right now? I've not seen any. In terms of what he's achieved over his career then there's a very credible argument to be made.

He needs very specific players to play his style of football, so no, I don't agree he'll improve any team by simply walking through the door.

No club? He's only ever left 2 behind! One of them had perhaps the greatest collection of footballers in history breaking into the first team, and the other had won the treble the season before, which he failed to emulate. So if you want to play that game, you could argue he made one of them worse. Now he's come to City, spent over £300m on your defense, and if anything, made it worse.

Serious questions need to be asked of Pep. When you can only perform with world class players and spend an absolute fortune to get to the level the team needs to be at, there needs to be correlating results.

He can only win with world class players, that doesn't mean he wouldn't do better at other clubs. There are very few managers in history who can win without the best team.. Sir Alex, maybe Klopp and Simone but they've both only won pretty rarely given the length of their respective careers.

Again its Pep being held to a higher standard than others because of the resources he's inherited. Cities defence is not worse now than under Pellgrini but far worse than under Mancini. Likewise our attack is better than at any time in our history.

Yes Barca had the greatest collection of players but so.. I mean Sir Alex didn't handcraft the class of 92 but no one uses that as a stick to beat him, its a ridiculous argument.

But you have no proof he can only perform with world class player, didn't he win the Spanish 2nd division with a team tipped to come around 10th?

If people think he wouldn't walk in and do better jobs than Sarri, Ole, Lampard, Arteta, Mourinho etc.. they have lost their mind due to a poor season.

 

[cyberman]

Jose was a disaster with you guys, people still somehow see the Jose of 2007 as the post Madrid Jose of 2017. Jose's star burnt out pretty fast from the pressure at Madrid, football passed him by because he refused to change. Pep is a far superior manager currently and has been for 5 or 6 years, but.. its come to the point where like Jose he'll either adapt or get left behind thanks to his tactical stubborness. Jose should be a lesson to Pep.

But City were there. If Jose is in charge of City then theres no City to go up against. He finished 2nd against you lot, put him in a better squad situation and a higher budget and have him go against his 2nd year United side, he wins the league as well imo.
He could misuse Sane and Sancho as well, let them leave the club. Play slow, defensive minded midfielders while alienating the more progressive, attacking players and go into a defensive posture against top sides.
Jose copped more shit for the Sevilla result than Pep is getting for Lyon. That game actually broke Joses tenure.
Pep gets jibes about Messi and links to 100m defenders while Jose was continually called a broken dinosaur.

 

[pierrethesnack]

It was Spain that used possession primarily to defend and won the entire world cup oon a run of 1-0s.

Feck me, that must be one of the most boring tournaments of all time. Absolutely soul sucking to watch, a bit like LvG's United side.

 

[padr81]

But City were there. If Jose is in charge of City then theres no City to go up against. He finished 2nd against you lot, put him in a better squad situation and a higher budget and have him go against his 2nd year United side, he wins the league as well imo.
He could misuse Sane and Sancho as well, let them leave the club. Play slow, defensive minded midfielders while alienating the more progressive, attacking players and go into a defensive posture against top sides.
Jose copped more shit for the Sevilla resukt than Pep is getting for Lyon. That game actually broke Joses tenure.
Pep gets jibes about Messi and links to 100m defenders

The squad Pellegrini left behind would have done worse under Jose and won nothing. For one he'd have binned off KDB again. None of our defenders at the time would be able to play the Jose way bar Kompany who was always injured. The only players at the club who'd have been a fit for Jose arriving were Kompany, Fernandinho and Aguero. Not a single other one would he have fancied or been a tactical fit. That was a squad Jose would have had to spend more money on than Pep for worse results. When you guys appointed him, Jose was already living on his pre-Madrid status. One title with Chelsea didn't change that. He was done plain and simple.

Early in his tenure I thought he'd be a success but after 3 months it was obvious.

There is maybe an argument for someone like Allegri but not for Jose.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He can only win with world class players, that doesn't mean he wouldn't do better at other clubs. There are very few managers in history who can win without the best team.. Sir Alex, maybe Klopp and Simone but they've both only won pretty rarely given the length of their respective careers.

Again its Pep being held to a higher standard than others because of the resources he's inherited. Cities defence is not worse now than under Pellgrini but far worse than under Mancini. Likewise our attack is better than at any time in our history.

Yes Barca had the greatest collection of players but so.. I mean Sir Alex didn't handcraft the class of 92 but no one uses that as a stick to beat him, its a ridiculous argument.

But you have no proof he can only perform with world class player, didn't he win the Spanish 2nd division with a team tipped to come around 10th?

If people think he wouldn't walk in and do better jobs than Sarri, Ole, Lampard, Arteta, Mourinho etc.. they have lost their mind due to a poor season.

I think Pep is held to a higher standard only partly because of the money he has. The other factor is the esteem that many hold him in. That’s he’s a ‘genius’ and a man apart from the rest. His nauseating acolytes crowed that he'd revolutionise English football when he signed on with City. He has influenced the game here but certainly hasn’t revolutionise anything. The PL, in turn, has made him look mortal and significantly damaged those claims of genius. His time here has also made a lot of people realise that essentially he’s a cheque book manager. A far cry from those years where Fergie maintained United as a top team whilst actually refusing to spend money.

 

[ivaldo]

He can only win with world class players, that doesn't mean he wouldn't do better at other clubs. There are very few managers in history who can win without the best team.. Sir Alex, maybe Klopp and Simone but they've both only won pretty rarely given the length of their respective careers.

Again its Pep being held to a higher standard than others because of the resources he's inherited. Cities defence is not worse now than under Pellgrini but far worse than under Mancini. Likewise our attack is better than at any time in our history.

Yes Barca had the greatest collection of players but so.. I mean Sir Alex didn't handcraft the class of 92 but no one uses that as a stick to beat him, its a ridiculous argument.

But you have no proof he can only perform with world class player, didn't he win the Spanish 2nd division with a team tipped to come around 10th?

If people think he wouldn't walk in and do better jobs than Sarri, Ole, Lampard, Arteta, Mourinho etc.. they have lost their mind due to a poor season.

No, world class players that suit his specific brand of football. That's the key difference. So when you need to spend enormous amounts of money to build that perfect squad, it better function near flawlessly.

He inherited a team capable of winning the league. Spend ridiculous sums on the defense which is arguably no better than what he had, and City are no more dominant in the league than before he arrived. Of course he's held to higher standards when he has every resource available to achieve. It would be weird if we didn't.

Fergie rebuilt the team half a dozen times, recycled players effectively, and invariably had his team challenging for the title at all times, fending off challenger after challenger. You simply cannot compare that with Pep arriving at a top side, spending vast sums of money, then leaving a few years later.

You seriously using that as an example?

 

[padr81]

I think Pep is held to a higher standard only partly because of the money he has. The other factor is the esteem that many hold him in. That’s he’s a ‘genius’ and a man apart from the rest. His nauseating acolytes crowed that he'd revolutionise English football when he signed on with City. He has influenced the game here but certainly hasn’t revolutionise anything. The PL, in turn, has made him look mortal and significantly damaged those claims of genius. His time here has also made a lot of people realise that essentially he’s a cheque book manager.

I agree, but beating Pep with a stick because someone else called him a genius is kind of silly no. Especially when he himself has said everytime he's asked that he's only won because of what he has at his disposal.
Pep "I've only won because I've been incredibly blessed with the players I've had"
Fools like Miguel Delaney, "Peps and fraud and arrogant. Thinks he's a genius but he's only won because of the players he's had"

Its the most illogical thing I've ever read. Pep knows fine well how he's won as do all the clubs he's managed.

 

[Speedy30]

Sir Alex, maybe Klopp and Simone but they've both only won pretty rarely given the length of their respective careers.

But you're completely ignoring the fact that when Fergie went in to Utd, Klopp came into Liverpool and Simeone went to Atletico, they had to build a team over time due to budget constraints. Klopp with Man City's budget would have had them winning the league and the Champions League within 2 years of joining City I imagine.

 

[Borussin]

What Not a Pep lover by any means but unless you're of the opinion that the goals they score are repetitive I don't see how you can make this statement.

it may not be terrible, but it is dull, felt the same whne he was at Bayern. He is so obsessed with perfection, in an imperfect sport. Some of the joy of football comes from chaos. His 10493 short passes a game with the odd long pass every now and again, in search of a perfect goal is dull to me.

 

[Dansk]

People sing his praises because he happened to become manager of Barcelona at a time when they had the strongest squad ever assembled in the history of the sport.

He managed Barcelona from 2008 to 2012. Barcelona won La Liga in '05, '06, '09, '10, '11, '13, '15, '16, '18 and '19. Same goes for the CL: '06, '09, '11, '15. It's not as if they went from rags to riches with his arrival and then declined after his departure. They were already winning and continued to do so after he left, at roughly the same pace. He just happened to be the manager when their best players were all peaking in unison. He has ridden on the coattails of peak Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc.

His managerial performances at Bayern and City have been no more than adequate at best. He has done what you would take for granted of any remotely decent manager taking over the best team in the country and continuing to spend more than anyone. One can easily argue that he hasn't even really lived up to that, in fact. One certainly cannot argue that his teams have been greater than the sum of their parts.

He coasted Bayern to easy league wins because the Bundesliga is the Bundesliga, and he coasted City to easy league wins because he arrived at a time when United, Chelsea and Arsenal are all in such dire straits that bloody Leicester won the league. All the while, Pep has failed in Europe year after year. I see no basis for calling him an exceptional manager.

In my eyes, he is alright. He's not bad. He's definitely not amazing. Throughout his literal entire career he has had nothing short of the best squad in the land at his disposal, so he has won the league more often than not because that's essentially guaranteed if you have by far the strongest squad in the league for 100% of your career. That's not his doing. When it does get tough - i.e. in European competition - he has only been able to do well when he had peak Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets, Piqué, Mascherano, Puyol etc.

He won so much at Barcelona for the exact same reason that the Spanish national team won three major international tournaments in that same span of years. Is that Pep's doing, too? Or could it be that Spanish football simply had a golden age at that time?

 

[padr81]

No, world class players that suit his specific brand of football. That's the key difference. So when you need to spend enormous amounts of money to build that perfect squad, it better function near flawlessly.

He inherited a team capable of winning the league. Spend ridiculous sums on the defense which is arguably no better than what he had, and City are no more dominant in the league than before he arrived. Of course he's held to higher standards when he has every resource available to achieve. It would be weird if we didn't.

Fergie rebuilt the team half a dozen times, recycled players effectively, and invariably had his team challenging for the title at all times, fending off challenger after challenger. You simply cannot compare that with Pep arriving at a top side, spending vast sums of money, then leaving a few years later.

You seriously using that as an example?

Thats not true though... No more dominant? He got 198 points in 2 seasons, became the first manager to break 100 points, broke the scoring record, the GD record, joint highest winning margin. He smashed just about every record in existence. This season has been an absolute disaster but cast back 12 months and people on here were crying that no team would ever win a trophy in England again till Pep left, even some of those now calling him a fraud its ridiculous. He was both never a genius or a fraud just a very good manager (one of the best in world football) with fantastic resources to work with.

I also don't think anyone is comparing him to Fergie at all. I was simply saying getting good players through no means of your own isn't a stick to beat someone with. I basically said anyone who said "Fergie only won cause he got lucky with youth" is wrong. Similar things are said about Pep all the time.

 

[Feed Me]

Jose was a disaster with you guys, people still somehow see the Jose of 2007 as the post Madrid Jose of 2017. Jose's star burnt out pretty fast from the pressure at Madrid, football passed him by because he refused to change. Pep is a far superior manager currently and has been for 5 or 6 years, but.. its come to the point where like Jose he'll either adapt or get left behind thanks to his tactical stubborness. Jose should be a lesson to Pep.

They are following an eerily similar trajectory. Pep is nearer his peak, albeit on a downturn, thanks to starting his career in earnest around 2007, whereas Mourinho began earlier, around the turn of the millennium. Pep will still be seen as a top manager for a little while, but the game has essentially passed him by like it does for all top coaches. He’s had his decade or so at the very top.

 

[NewGlory]

It's hard to overlook the fact that Pep has certainly very consistently struggled in CL ever since Barca. As others have noted - that doesn't make him a bad manager. That just makes him a manager that struggles in CL

That said, if you take yesterday's game in isolation, or even this season - City simply doesn't have good enough defense. Sure, it was crazy for Sterling to not score the second goal, but did a team with the defense like City's deserve to be in semi-finals of CL? Not sure.

 

[padr81]

But you're completely ignoring the fact that when Fergie went in to Utd, Klopp came into Liverpool and Simeone went to Atletico, they had to build a team over time due to budget constraints. Klopp with Man City's budget would have had them winning the league and the Champions League within 2 years of joining City I imagine.

You imagine... Klopp is a great manager, but he kind of revels in being the underdog. We don't know how he'll do being clear favorite until next season. We also don't know how Pep would do having to build a team on budget constraints because he's never had that issue. They are different jobs. Part of what made Sir Alex so great was he could win as both underdog or massive favorite. But Klopp has won a lot less frequently in his career than Pep, because he hasn't had the resources, we also don't know how he'd handle those resources. Lets not forget Klopp also finished bottom half of the table with Dortmund when they were established and expected to be winners.

 

[cyberman]

The squad Pellegrini left behind would have done worse under Jose and won nothing. For one he'd have binned off KDB again. None of our defenders at the time would be able to play the Jose way bar Kompany who was always injured. The only players at the club who'd have been a fit for Jose arriving were Kompany, Fernandinho and Aguero. Not a single other one would he have fancied or been a tactical fit. That was a squad Jose would have had to spend more money on than Pep for worse results. When you guys appointed him, Jose was already living on his pre-Madrid status. One title with Chelsea didn't change that. He was done plain and simple.

Early in his tenure I thought he'd be a success but after 3 months it was obvious.

There is maybe an argument for someone like Allegri but not for Jose.

I dont think he bins KDB. He might have scape goated him but he didnt fancy a lot of our players but didnt sell any of them.
I do think he would have recruited better defensive players for you. He wanted the likes of Maguire and Alderverald (im not googling his name ) that we didnt sign for him but you would have, or at least better alternatives.
All im saying is the drop off from elite status is very gradual and hardly noticable but Pep is on that slope. Up coming managers are a lot more open to learning new things and adapting so a decade in we have managers who learn from the best and strive to improve on it.
If he doesnt learn how to cope with deep blocks who are willing to give up the ball and smash you on the break then hes done.
The fact your play falls apart when you go a goal behind should be a huge red flag as to where its currently going if he doesnt adapt

 

[padr81]

They are following an eerily similar trajectory. Pep is nearer his peak, albeit on a downturn, thanks to starting his career in earnest around 2007, whereas Mourinho began earlier, around the turn of the millennium. Pep will still be seen as a top manager for a little while, but the game has essentially passed him by like it does for all top coaches. He’s had his decade or so at the very top.

Absolutely which is why I said Pep needs to not make the same mistake and adapt or be left behind. Joses stubborness was the end of him and Pep looks to be heading down the same road but its far too early to say he's done. he could very well win the league by 15 or so points next season, another season like this and he's in big trouble, likely gone from City and will have to prove himself at a club without the resources he's had.

 

[padr81]

I dont think he bins KDB. He might have scape goated him but he didnt fancy a lot of our players but didnt sell any of them.
I do think he would have recruited better defensive players for you. He wanted the likes of Maguire and Alderverald (im not googling his name ) that we didnt sign for him but you would have, or at least better alternatives.
All im saying is the drop off from elite status is very gradual and hardly noticable but Pep is on that slope. Up coming managers are a lot more open to learning new things and adapting so a decade in we have managers who learn from the best and strive to improve on it.
If he doesnt learn who to cope with deep blocks who are willing to give up the ball and smash you on the break then hes done.
The fact your play falls apart when you go a goal behind should be a huge red flag as to where its currently going if he doesnt adapt

I've said it before and I'll say it again, our defenders (cept Stones) aren't bad. They play a system and have done since Pellegrini that leaves them exposed. They wouldn't be capable of playing Jose style football but they'd be fine in a Klopp team or a Poch team etc...
I won't argue the bolded one bit I've said it myself many times. Pep has to either do a Sir Alex and adapt and get with the times (one of Sir Alex's best strengths) or do a Jose and become just another manager thats finished at top level and called a dinosaur.

I won't hold the falling apart when down thing at Pep, its been a thing thats ran through this squad for years. We've always had lots of players who break under pressure, an inferiority complex if you will. Difference being we had Yaya and Kompany to pick them up and show some fight before. We have no one like that now so the team panic. Last night is a perfect example of what we've done in the CL under every manager we've had.

 

[Alexit]

People sing his praises because he happened to become manager of Barcelona at a time when they had the strongest squad ever assembled in the history of the sport.

He managed Barcelona from 2008 to 2012. Barcelona won La Liga in '05, '06, '09, '10, '11, '13, '15, '16, '18 and '19. Same goes for the CL: '06, '09, '11, '15. It's not as if they went from rags to riches with his arrival and then declined after his departure. They were already winning and continued to do so after he left, at roughly the same pace. He just happened to be the manager when their best players were all peaking in unison. He has ridden on the coattails of peak Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, etc.

His managerial performances at Bayern and City have been no more than adequate at best. He has done what you would take for granted of any remotely decent manager taking over the best team in the country and continuing to spend more than anyone. One can easily argue that he hasn't even really lived up to that, in fact. One certainly cannot argue that his teams have been greater than the sum of their parts.

He coasted Bayern to easy league wins because the Bundesliga is the Bundesliga, and he coasted City to easy league wins because he arrived at a time when United, Chelsea and Arsenal are all in such dire straits that bloody Leicester won the league. All the while, Pep has failed in Europe year after year. I see no basis for calling him an exceptional manager.

In my eyes, he is alright. He's not bad. He's definitely not amazing. Throughout his literal entire career he has had nothing short of the best squad in the land at his disposal, so he has won the league more often than not because that's essentially guaranteed if you have by far the strongest squad in the league for 100% of your career. That's not his doing. When it does get tough - i.e. in European competition - he has only been able to do well when he had peak Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets, Piqué, Mascherano, Puyol etc.

He won so much at Barcelona for the exact same reason that the Spanish national team won three major international tournaments in that same span of years. Is that Pep's doing, too? Or could it be that Spanish football simply had a golden age at that time?

Very good post, sums up my thoughts.

As long as he doesn't win the UCL post-Barca there will always be the cheeky linking of his UCL success to Messi (and that incredible Barca side). We know there are other factors as to why he hasn't won the UCL post-Barca as he's had teams at his disposal since then that could have won it. Perhaps the lack of success at City is, in part, down to their constant cake-walks in the group stages, making them think they are better than they are in Europe only to be rudely awakened in the quarter-finals. Who knows? If the ball bounced differently yesterday, Sterling bags that chance and they keep Lyon out buoyed by the late lead and progress.

But since pundits insist, and continue to wank on about the genius coach he is, the cheeky link will continue to be made. It's all in jest I think. I would take him here in a heartbeat. Part of his problem in the UCL is that he's too smart for his own good. Overthinks ties, especially the away/neutral ground ones, it bit him yet again.