'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

Records have to be taken within the context of the league. City & Liverpool are racking up huge points & win totals due to the diminishing quality of the league. Utd have been in a state of continual transition. Arsenal went stagnant under Wenger & are getting worse. The bottom half teams of the league have also been very poor for a few years.

There is no denying City & Liverpool have good teams ATM. To put them in conversations as the best PL teams ever is ludicrous. It's very easy to do what they have done as the league isn't the challenge it was years ago. SAF won 3 PL in a row twice but never got close to the records that City set in 17/18. It's looking likely that Liverpool will take City's records this season. This all indicates the league is weak.

You had four teams in European finals last year, the eventual champion not among them, and you say the league is weak? IMO, this is the strongest EPL I've seen and I'm watching football since 2001.

Sorry, I know Ferguson has a godlike status in here and rightly so but as impressive as his consistency, longevity and constant reinvention is, his peak teams were not on the same level as these two, IMO. Both Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than SAF's best teams.
 
This thread is mental. Their metrics are even better than last year. City have been performing at an incredible (and consistent) level since Pep arrived in 2016. I would agree with the notion that is the best team in the PL era. To call that 'drivel' is ... well drivel.

How can their metrics be better than last year when they've already lost and had as many draws as they did last season?
 
How can their metrics be better than last year when they've already lost and had as many draws as they did last season?

Because metrics isn't the same as results. Their performances haven't changed and they should have a lot more points. Just think back to the game at Anfield where they played really well but lost 0-3.
 
Because metrics isn't the same as results. Their performances haven't changed and they should have a lot more points. Just think back to the game at Anfield where they played really well but lost 0-3.

They played well at Anfield? Their midfielders were clueless, their defence is terrible and playing Fernandinho as a center back and Rodry as a defensive midfielder is a terrible swap so far. They conceded 23 goals last season and already reach 19 now and we're not mid-season yet. So yeah, they can stil score 4 or 5 goals occasionnally but their metrics are far from being better. Bernardo Silva is the shadow of the player he was last season, Sterling is still good but not amazing, basically it's KdB carrying the team far too often.
 
You had four teams in European finals last year, the eventual champion not among them, and you say the league is weak? IMO, this is the strongest EPL I've seen and I'm watching football since 2001.

Sorry, I know Ferguson has a godlike status in here and rightly so but as impressive as his consistency, longevity and constant reinvention is, his peak teams were not on the same level as these two, IMO. Both Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than SAF's best teams.

having 4 CL & EL finalists was due to a decline in quality of the other European teams rather than the PL teams becoming better. The league by definition isn't competitive when you have huge points differences between the winners/+/runners up & the rest. The Utd teams of 99 & 2008 are at least on par with peak Pep City & current Klopp Liverpool. We didn't win the league by the massive margins seen in the last couple of years. This was due to the league being more competitive.
 
As much as it "was arsenal" as you do dismissively say, when was the last time a team went there and annihilated them?!
City do it every time, basically. They beat them six times in a row now
 
having 4 CL & EL finalists was due to a decline in quality of the other European teams rather than the PL teams becoming better.

Ok so the PL teams stayed exactly the same and the rest declined. I suppose the all German/Spanish finals in recent years were also simply because they stayed the same as they were previously while the rest declined and so on.... If so, then god help us because this means that football has been in a death spiral for decades. :D

The league by definition isn't competitive when you have huge points differences between the winners/+/runners up & the rest.

Cool, could you give us the definition of a competitive league so that we can then verify whether the PL was indeed competitive as you say in previous years?

We didn't win the league by the massive margins seen in the last couple of years. This was due to the league being more competitive.

Maybe this was just because everyone was equally shit? By your own reasoning, looking at English teams' performance in the CL in those years seems to indicate teams from other teams performed well simply because of a decline in the quality of English teams and essentially, Man Utd were just the biggest fish at that time in a pretty small PL pond.
 
Ok so the PL teams stayed exactly the same and the rest declined. I suppose the all German/Spanish finals in recent years were also simply because they stayed the same as they were previously while the rest declined and so on.... If so, then god help us because this means that football has been in a death spiral for decades. :D

Last year was an outlier. These happen every so often in football. It was very much the same circumstances of Leicesters title win. The European teams were generally poor which left a void.

Maybe this was just because everyone was equally shit? By your own reasoning, looking at English teams' performance in the CL in those years seems to indicate teams from other teams performed well simply because of a decline in the quality of English teams and essentially, Man Utd were just the biggest fish at that time in a pretty small PL pond.

If you really think that the Utd teams of 99 & 08 were shit then words fail me. I know City & Liverpool fans want to believe that their teams are on a different level than anything ever seen in the PL era. This isn't the case though. It is the decline of the traditional big clubs & the general poor standard of the teams below that have made you look so good.
 
This thread is embarassing considering where we are
Well said! I think we have more worries than to worry about an exceptional manager and a exceptional neighbor team. We must get ahead of them every day, each day of the year, every year. Think about Ole and our team to begin with.
 
Because metrics isn't the same as results. Their performances haven't changed and they should have a lot more points. Just think back to the game at Anfield where they played really well but lost 0-3.

Sorry, bro, but "played really well but lost 0-3" is too large of an oxymoron :) You may want to reconsider that particular take...
 
Which will happen first, him running away or him getting sacked? Lucky for him that United, Arsenal and Spurs are doing so badly and they won’t get sucked into a battle for top 4.
Pep is good at knowing when to run away. It's also a talent. He's nowhere close to anybody even considering to sack him, but eventually he will leave, way before they decide to sack him. He is no Arsene Wenger and won't overstay his welcome, for sure.
 
You had four teams in European finals last year, the eventual champion not among them, and you say the league is weak? IMO, this is the strongest EPL I've seen and I'm watching football since 2001.

Sorry, I know Ferguson has a godlike status in here and rightly so but as impressive as his consistency, longevity and constant reinvention is, his peak teams were not on the same level as these two, IMO. Both Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than SAF's best teams.

No evidence for that, at all. Fergie's peak teams brought home the league title and European Cup in the same season, twice.
 
You had four teams in European finals last year, the eventual champion not among them, and you say the league is weak? IMO, this is the strongest EPL I've seen and I'm watching football since 2001.

Sorry, I know Ferguson has a godlike status in here and rightly so but as impressive as his consistency, longevity and constant reinvention is, his peak teams were not on the same level as these two, IMO. Both Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than SAF's best teams.

It's not the strongest since 2001. from 2004 - 08 every single top 4 English side: United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal appeared in the Champions League final at some point, in 2008 three of four semi finalists were English. Liverpool actually won the Champions League while finishing 5th in the Premier League.
 
No evidence for that, at all. Fergie's peak teams brought home the league title and European Cup in the same season, twice.

Did any of those teams win 97 points?

I'm biased towards those great teams of course, but there are many metrics other that trophies won that can demonstrate the quality of a side.

For example, it's insane to argue that the Liverpool side that nearly won the league last season is inferior to every other PL title winning side in terms of quality. They would soundly beat Raineri's Leicester for example.
 
No evidence for that, at all. Fergie's peak teams brought home the league title and European Cup in the same season, twice.

Why are you even pointing out "twice"? Those successes were almost a decade apart which means it were two different teams. The success of the first hould have absolutely zero influence on the assessment of the second and vice versa, from a logical point of view.

I was 8 years old in 99 so I have no idea how good or bad that team was. However, I've seen the 2008 team and I'm sorry but I don't believe many people outside Manchester rate it the same way it is rated on this board. It was great, no doubt, but I'm fairly confident that City team of the last two seasons would've wiped the floor with them and since Liverpool is on eye level with them, they are definitely better in my book. Thing is, SAF was a great manager and adapter but as a coach he wasn't a visionary and his teams were never as tactically superior as Klopp and Pep teams, although the individual quality was on par or likely even better. That's the reason why those two achieved point records SAF could only dream of. What's really especial about him is that he reinvented himself and stayed at the top for so long.
 
They played well at Anfield? Their midfielders were clueless, their defence is terrible and playing Fernandinho as a center back and Rodry as a defensive midfielder is a terrible swap so far. They conceded 23 goals last season and already reach 19 now and we're not mid-season yet. So yeah, they can stil score 4 or 5 goals occasionnally but their metrics are far from being better. Bernardo Silva is the shadow of the player he was last season, Sterling is still good but not amazing, basically it's KdB carrying the team far too often.

This post is terrible.

A 'clueless' city midfield. Get a grip man.

City and Liverpool have set incredibly high standards for themselves, which is nigh on impossible to replicate season after season, but it still seems your holding CIty to record breaking standards for the third season on a bounce.
 
Why are you even pointing out "twice"? Those successes were almost a decade apart which means it were two different teams. The success of the first hould have absolutely zero influence on the assessment of the second and vice versa, from a logical point of view.

I was 8 years old in 99 so I have no idea how good or bad that team was. However, I've seen the 2008 team and I'm sorry but I don't believe many people outside Manchester rate it the same way it is rated on this board. It was great, no doubt, but I'm fairly confident that City team of the last two seasons would've wiped the floor with them and since Liverpool is on eye level with them, they are definitely better in my book. Thing is, SAF was a great manager and adapter but as a coach he wasn't a visionary and his teams were never as tactically superior as Klopp and Pep teams, although the individual quality was on par or likely even better. That's the reason why those two achieved point records SAF could only dream of. What's really especial about him is that he reinvented himself and stayed at the top for so long.

Steady on there.

I think that the United team that lost to Leverkusen in 2001 is around the same quality of the 2008 team. It's not as simple as just looking at trophy counts. Especially given the volatile nature of the cup competitions!
 
This post is terrible.

A 'clueless' city midfield. Get a grip man.

City and Liverpool have set incredibly high standards for themselves, which is nigh on impossible to replicate season after season, but it still seems your holding CIty to record breaking standards for the third season on a bounce.

You're clueless unless you are able to be "pragmatic" and/or set up looking for a point. Come on, do you even brexit?
 
Why are you even pointing out "twice"? Those successes were almost a decade apart which means it were two different teams. The success of the first hould have absolutely zero influence on the assessment of the second and vice versa, from a logical point of view.

I was 8 years old in 99 so I have no idea how good or bad that team was. However, I've seen the 2008 team and I'm sorry but I don't believe many people outside Manchester rate it the same way it is rated on this board. It was great, no doubt, but I'm fairly confident that City team of the last two seasons would've wiped the floor with them and since Liverpool is on eye level with them, they are definitely better in my book. Thing is, SAF was a great manager and adapter but as a coach he wasn't a visionary and his teams were never as tactically superior as Klopp and Pep teams, although the individual quality was on par or likely even better. That's the reason why those two achieved point records SAF could only dream of. What's really especial about him is that he reinvented himself and stayed at the top for so long.

:lol:
 

Yeah that was outrageous.

Slightly more outrageous than those who claim the opposite. Truth be told, if you put this City side or this Liverpool side in any year going back, they would push any title winning side hard at the very least. Imagine this Liverpool side in 2009.
 
Yeah that was outrageous.

Slightly more outrageous than those who claim the opposite. Truth be told, if you put this City side or this Liverpool side in any year going back, they would push any title winning side hard at the very least. Imagine this Liverpool side in 2009.

Yeah, they would be competing for league title, coming up with nonsense like "wipe the floor with United 2008 team" is hilarious.

I don't understand why people keep comparing points gained in a season. SAF got 89 points with Cleverley, close to retirement Carrick, came out of retirement Scholes, Giggs as midfield options, with players like Valencia, Nani, Welbeck as wing options. This after taking it easy in last few weeks when we already won the league and everybody was in SAF celebration mood for nearly 2 months.

It's not something out of this world to expect SAF to improve his team by 6-9 points by spending big money like other 2 did. We achieved what was needed to win the league, when the bar was raised by Wenger SAF matched it. When the bar was against raised by Jose, SAF matched it. He would have done the same if he was younger.
 
He's the best coach in the world, the football his teams produce is consistently excellent and I love how he approaches every game with the sole intention of winning it, there's no thought of being pragmatic and I admire that commitment to his principles.

However, should he allow that mob to stroll to the title unopposed this season I will never forgive him. Get your shit together pep ffs!
He only goes out to win every game because generally speaking he's expected to win every game - they have such a strong squad City that even with the injuries they currently have, they could easily field a team strong enough to beat most of the premiership.
The 'going out to win' approach has cost them massively this season, against United they had no plan B and played right into our hands. It's games like that whereby coaches and managers need to step up and change things, but Pep has consistently seemed unable to right things when they are going wrong throughout his career.
 
Both Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than SAF's best teams.

This simply isn't true.

Van der Sar

Valencia(raf) - Rio - Vidic - Evra

Scholes - Carrick - Giggs ( Park/Nani)

Ronaldo - Tevez - Rooney (Berba)

This team would absolutely destroy Liverpool's and City's and walk this league at a canter.

It's got quality top to bottom coupled with the mentality to win at all costs. Peak Ronaldo and Rooney alone are so much better than anything City or Pool can offer. That defense is much better than Pool's and City's and you can't even compare Henderson, Wijnaldim, etc to Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.
 
This simply isn't true.

Van der Sar

Raf - Rio - Vidic - Evra

Scholes - Carrick - Giggs/park

Ronaldo - Tevez - Rooney (Berba)

This team would absolutely destroy Liverpool's and City's and walk this league at a canter.

It's got quality top to bottom coupled with the mentality to win at all costs. Peak Ronaldo and Rooney alone are so much better than anything City or Pool can offer. That defense is much better than Pool's and City's and you can't even compare Henderson, Wijnaldim, etc to Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.
I loved our teams, but we didn't play at the same level Liverpool do now. They would press us to death and expose our lack of pace in midfield unless Fletcher played.
 
I loved our teams, but we didn't play at the same level Liverpool do now. They would press us to death and expose our lack of pace in midfield unless Fletcher played.

I'm not sure if you're misrembering but a team with Rooney/Tevez/Park would out press any defence and we did so, frequently, they never stopped. Not only that but a midfield of Scholes and Carrick were always outs for the defence and you could count on one hand the number of times they lost the ball in a season. Plenty of teams tried to press us methodically but it didn't work and they got blitzed on the counter. Rio was perhaps the best ball playing defender in the world. That defence really was the best i've ever seen. Warrior mentality, Pace to burn in Rio and Evra, and peak Vidic was an absolute monster. It's hard to compare playing styles across eras. But i'd say if anything, this United team would be perfect to destroy liverpool. They play with fullbacks as wingers, against the likes of Ronaldo, tevez, Rooney, they would get murdered on the counter and simply wouldn't be able to push up.

I'm not being funny, you say this team would get pressed to death by this liverpool team. But Liverpool can't even beat the current man united team and that doesn't have half the quality. Mctom/Pogba etc are hardly speed merchants and they don't hold a handle to that midfield. No chance they're beating this one managed by SAF.
 
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This simply isn't true.

Van der Sar

Valencia(raf) - Rio - Vidic - Evra

Scholes - Carrick - Giggs ( Park/Nani)

Ronaldo - Tevez - Rooney (Berba)

This team would absolutely destroy Liverpool's and City's and walk this league at a canter.

It's got quality top to bottom coupled with the mentality to win at all costs. Peak Ronaldo and Rooney alone are so much better than anything City or Pool can offer. That defense is much better than Pool's and City's and you can't even compare Henderson, Wijnaldim, etc to Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.

So your saying this team would get 99+ points then?
 
This post is terrible.

A 'clueless' city midfield. Get a grip man.

City and Liverpool have set incredibly high standards for themselves, which is nigh on impossible to replicate season after season, but it still seems your holding CIty to record breaking standards for the third season on a bounce.

There's nothing terrible about it. Rodri and Gundogan were clueless and KdB was good but too high on the pitch to prevent them from being crushed in the midfield. Most analysts were even wondering why Guardiola was so passive and didn't change anything since it obviously didn't work. It didn't work at all.
 
This simply isn't true.

Van der Sar

Valencia(raf) - Rio - Vidic - Evra

Scholes - Carrick - Giggs ( Park/Nani)

Ronaldo - Tevez - Rooney (Berba)

This team would absolutely destroy Liverpool's and City's and walk this league at a canter.

It's got quality top to bottom coupled with the mentality to win at all costs. Peak Ronaldo and Rooney alone are so much better than anything City or Pool can offer. That defense is much better than Pool's and City's and you can't even compare Henderson, Wijnaldim, etc to Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.

:lol:

No it wouldn't.
 
This simply isn't true.

Van der Sar

Valencia(raf) - Rio - Vidic - Evra

Scholes - Carrick - Giggs ( Park/Nani)

Ronaldo - Tevez - Rooney (Berba)

This team would absolutely destroy Liverpool's and City's and walk this league at a canter.

It's got quality top to bottom coupled with the mentality to win at all costs. Peak Ronaldo and Rooney alone are so much better than anything City or Pool can offer. That defense is much better than Pool's and City's and you can't even compare Henderson, Wijnaldim, etc to Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.
That's just silly. We often didn't beat Liverpool as they were THEN, never mind 'absolutely destroy' the current version. I'm all for bashing Liverpool but there's no guarantee that any of Fergie's teams would destroy Liverpool as they are now.
 
I'm not sure if you're misrembering but a team with Rooney/Tevez/Park would out press any defence and we did so, frequently, they never stopped. Not only that but a midfield of Scholes and Carrick were always outs for the defence and you could count on one hand the number of times they lost the ball in a season.
We pressed alright,but not as good as many modern teams. We had great speed and skills in our attack though and much more depth than pool. Still got destroyed by pool in 2009 and could not stop barca. The mentality was amazing though.
 
This simply isn't true.

Van der Sar

Valencia(raf) - Rio - Vidic - Evra

Scholes - Carrick - Giggs ( Park/Nani)

Ronaldo - Tevez - Rooney (Berba)

This team would absolutely destroy Liverpool's and City's and walk this league at a canter.

It's got quality top to bottom coupled with the mentality to win at all costs. Peak Ronaldo and Rooney alone are so much better than anything City or Pool can offer. That defense is much better than Pool's and City's and you can't even compare Henderson, Wijnaldim, etc to Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.

Well, if they'd won their first 17 games they'd be a couple points ahead of Liverpool this season (let's assume Utd and Liverpool haven't played each other). Hardly winning at a canter.... I'm even including the 2 points we dropped at Utd in your favour :D
 
This simply isn't true.

Van der Sar

Valencia(raf) - Rio - Vidic - Evra

Scholes - Carrick - Giggs ( Park/Nani)

Ronaldo - Tevez - Rooney (Berba)

This team would absolutely destroy Liverpool's and City's and walk this league at a canter.

It's got quality top to bottom coupled with the mentality to win at all costs. Peak Ronaldo and Rooney alone are so much better than anything City or Pool can offer. That defense is much better than Pool's and City's and you can't even compare Henderson, Wijnaldim, etc to Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.

Player by player you were better, yes.
 
Touché, bold statement when we've never seen that team play against a Pep team. Wait..

That pep team is not this pep team. They had GOAT playing for them and arguably greatest ever midfield trio. Not comparable to this City team.

Now we should expect Ancelotti to wipe the floor with everyone as he did with Milan. Oh wait.
 
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That's just silly. We often didn't beat Liverpool as they were THEN, never mind 'absolutely destroy' the current version. I'm all for bashing Liverpool but there's no guarantee that any of Fergie's teams would destroy Liverpool as they are now.

We lost 4-1 at home against them in 2008/2009. We did destroy the weaker teams back then, but against the big teams we didn't really destroy anyone and often lost.
It was great to win on pens over Chelsea, but we were pretty even with them that season to be honest.

We played probably much more entertaining football than Pool right now, but they have more efficiency I think.
 
We lost 4-1 at home against them in 2008/2009. We did destroy the weaker teams back then, but against the big teams we didn't really destroy anyone and often lost.
It was great to win on pens over Chelsea, but we were pretty even with them that season to be honest.

We played probably much more entertaining football than Pool right now, but they have more efficiency I think.

Not in 08/09 until later in the season.
 
Why are you even pointing out "twice"? Those successes were almost a decade apart which means it were two different teams. The success of the first hould have absolutely zero influence on the assessment of the second and vice versa, from a logical point of view.

I was 8 years old in 99 so I have no idea how good or bad that team was. However, I've seen the 2008 team and I'm sorry but I don't believe many people outside Manchester rate it the same way it is rated on this board. It was great, no doubt, but I'm fairly confident that City team of the last two seasons would've wiped the floor with them and since Liverpool is on eye level with them, they are definitely better in my book. Thing is, SAF was a great manager and adapter but as a coach he wasn't a visionary and his teams were never as tactically superior as Klopp and Pep teams, although the individual quality was on par or likely even better. That's the reason why those two achieved point records SAF could only dream of. What's really especial about him is that he reinvented himself and stayed at the top for so long.

What a terrible post. SAF could only dream of. The lengths that you would go to for making a simple point that you think the current Liverpool and City teams are better!

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but get a grip! Our 07-08 team had Ronaldo, Rooney, Vida, Rio, Tevez, Evra and Carrick, all at their peaks. On top of that we has VDS, Giggs, Hargreaves and Scholes. That team can beat anyone my friend. I wish we had something similar now, and we weren't in an era where Glazeronomics has left us behind our fiercest rivals.