Paul Pogba

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Comsmit said:
Thanks for replying to my questions by the way, after you deliberately and petulantly dismissed my initial post. That's fine if you don't agree but you should at least have the decency to fecking reply to me once you have blatantly dismissed most of a post. Smacks of arrogance mate.

Kudos to KingEric it is a good post, but pretty much everything you have said here is pedantic, overly pretentious folly. The club have "certain standards" what happened with Rooney then? Or Saha? Or Stam? Even Bebe that is dodgy as feck. You are living in a fantasy world if you think Manchester United don't bend rules or bend over for certain individuals. Lay off the sentimentality its not applicable in this scenario. Pogba wants to play football and gain a respectable wage for his efforts. United couldn't offer him this so he went to another big club and got his wish, now its paying off for him...he is looking after himself the same way Rooney did, its the way shit works. Ferguson does it himself...its human nature.
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Deco has a point, he definitely wasn't ready. A plethora of reason's have already been put forward: midfield 2's, his attitude, mental etc

If I can add to the argument I agree with most of what has been said, he was never going to work in a 2 the Stoke game he came on even though we were clear and comfortable he came on and played alongside Scholes and Carrick and it allowed him to do his thing as they held his hand.

His mentality for me was the most alarming, I've posted this 1000 times and most of you will have seen me say it again but one of the first games I saw him live in was West Ham in the FAYC and whilst you could see he had talent, at times he switched off and looked disinterested allowing George Moncur to proper have a go and get into the game and it carried on throughout his time with us.

He has constantly said Sir Alex didn't show faith in him or trust him and it appears that at Juve where he is playing at a level that he feels is a challenge he is blossoming but Sir Alex had every right to judge him on what he showed rather than what he could produce.

Those Carling Cup appearances were the perfect opportunities for him to show what he can do and he didn't exactly shine so can he be angry that Sir Alex wasn't quick to throw him into the first team?

I hold nothing against him even for the perceived disrespect and wish him the best, as someone said he had every right to swap our ressies for the first team of the champions of Italy, just hope he doesn't end u at City or Chelsea.
 
This guy was exactly what we needed in central midfield, he's gone though unfortunately and not looking like he'll come back.

So now we better move on rather than extend this thread to dozens of tearful pages.

On we move !!!

EDIT: just noticed this thread is already 188 pages long so my plea might have bit the dust already... :(
 
Sarni said:
Chelsea finished about 35 points behind last season.
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Doesn't change his point though. Last season it was City, who will spend big to get an instant solution to any weakness in their team. This season it is both City and Chelsea again.

Back when everyone had to either find a decently priced player or look to their own ranks, it was easier to do.
 
Nani Nana said:
This guy was exactly what we needed in central midfield, he's gone though unfortunately and not looking like he'll come back.

So now we better move on rather than extend this thread to dozens of tearful pages.

On we move !!!

EDIT: just noticed this thread is already 188 pages long so my plea might have bit the dust already... :(
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Classic caf response to any thread about something that didn't go our way. People are having a discussion about whether we should have kept him, how we might have done it, how we can prevent it happening again. No one is 'tearful' except, I suspect, the person who can't stand to see the thread updated... you.

Also it's 188 pages long because it started just after we bought him.
 
Comsmit said:
Thanks for replying to my questions by the way, after you deliberately and petulantly dismissed my initial post. That's fine if you don't agree but you should at least have the decency to fecking reply to me once you have blatantly dismissed most of a post. Smacks of arrogance mate.

Kudos to KingEric it is a good post, but pretty much everything you have said here is pedantic, overly pretentious folly. The club have "certain standards" what happened with Rooney then? Or Saha? Or Stam? Even Bebe that is dodgy as feck. You are living in a fantasy world if you think Manchester United don't bend rules or bend over for certain individuals. Lay off the sentimentality its not applicable in this scenario. Pogba wants to play football and gain a respectable wage for his efforts. United couldn't offer him this so he went to another big club and got his wish, now its paying off for him...he is looking after himself the same way Rooney did, its the way shit works. Ferguson does it himself...its human nature.
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Wow looks like Id better apologise seeing as you seem to have the inside track on this one. Some of your earlier points I wasnt really in a position to address as you are dealing purely with presumptions...

"Pogba probably felt that last season was his real opportunity to stake his claim at United".

He was 18 at the start of last season? How do you know what he felt?

"he even admits he is impatient. The thing is I don't see that as something to pan him for, he believes in himself and he is proving this right now. Ferguson's record with young players is very fine"

I think we all have to have faith in our managers opinion on whether we was ready or not. That his job, not the players.

How may I ask do you know what United did or didnt offer him. If you dont think the points i suggested earlier bare any relevance to him leaving you're the one living in a fantasy world.

CLK is far better placed to comment on him and his issues but the fact is they did exist. For me he ultimately didnt display the required desire to play for the club. It can be dressed up anyway you want but Fergie isnt the business of losing top talents like Pogba if there wasnt a serious underlying reason for it. Id love to hear what the likes Mr Mujac has to say on his departure.

What if he just simply wanted to play for Juve?
 
Rams said:
I have 1 word for this thread: obsessed!
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See my comment three posts back. Why is a discussion in this thread any more obsessive than a discussion about Isco or Pirlo or any other player who doesn't play for us? Try actually reading the recent comments, none of them is obsessive or pissed off or anything, it's just a discussion.

Honestly, the only thing more stupid than when a thread gets mad and rant-filled is when someone like you comes into one that obviously isn't and tries to be clever.
 
Decotron said:
Wow looks like Id better apologise seeing as you seem to have the inside track on this one. Some of your earlier points I wasnt really in a position to address as you are dealing purely with presumptions...

"Pogba probably felt that last season was his real opportunity to stake his claim at United".

He was 18 at the start of last season? How do you know what he felt?

"he even admits he is impatient. The thing is I don't see that as something to pan him for, he believes in himself and he is proving this right now. Ferguson's record with young players is very fine"

I think we all have to have faith in our managers opinion on whether we was ready or not. That his job, not the players.

How may I ask do you know what United did or didnt offer him. If you dont think the points i suggested earlier bare any relevance to him leaving you're the one living in a fantasy world.

CLK is far better placed to comment on him and his issues but the fact is they did exist. For me he ultimately didnt display the required desire to play for the club. It can be dressed up anyway you want but Fergie isnt the business of losing top talents like Pogba if there wasnt a serious underlying reason for it. Id love to hear what the likes Mr Mujac has to say on his departure.

What if he just simply wanted to play for Juve?
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You don't need to apologise for anything....that's not what I was implying. And you still don't wish to address my questions....or can't? The little snippets you picked up here are not presumptions....I do not proffess to know that they are true. They are merely subjective opinions based on what I've gathered thus far. Of course I don't literally know what Pogba was thinking but judging from his interview with BBC sport it's not hard to get the gist??

I think you show a blind faith in Ferguson....can't be criticised really for that but the man can and has made serious errors of judgement before. Ferguson of course will say what suits him and protects his reputation, but I feel it's good that Pogba has put his side across.

I believe United offered him a contract, but it seems pretty clear Juventus offered him more, plus the promise of first team football. You actually suggest there is a serious underlying reason as Ferguson does not lose top talents lightly. Well that is a presumption for a start...perhaps he just did lose this one, and it could be seen as a slight failure on his part? Ferguson is a great manager but he's not perfect by any means.
 
Comsmit said:
He could and probably should have been introduced a lot sooner than the penultimate weeks of the season. Fergusons midfield was a mess before December, the last group game in the Champions League he played Jones, Park and Giggs for gods sake. When Scholes returned that was basically it for Pogba.
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He could have been introduced earlier, and maybe should have had mroe cameos in the months leading up to December, but he didn't. The last group game of the Champions' League wasn't a throwaway game where you can start bedding in youngsters, as I'm sure you're aware. We were in a terrible position, mainly because we'd underestimated opposition in the previous games, and if Fergie had gone with another unproven youth player he would have been slaughtered. As it so happened he chose to play with experience, and had Rooney not missed the open goal from 3 yards out we would have progressed through to the next stage of the competition. Yes Jones may be the same age as Pogba, but he's had 2 full seasons of competitive top flight football. Ultimately Scholes' recall might have closed the door for Pogba, but it's Scholes, not just some half-arsed decent midfielder. If Pogba loses his chance to England's best midfielder of the last generation then so be it.
Comsmit said:
Ferguson was so scared of City pulling away he opted for experience through until May. Of course he was ready mentally he was desperate to play in the first eleven and prove himself. In the moments he did get there was a definite assuredness in his play. You only have to look at Ryan Tunnicliffe's baptism last week to gauge whether a player is ready or not.
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That's ridiculous, just because a player is raring to play for the first team doesn't mean that they're ready to handle the increased pressure that would be a result of having to maintain a higher performance. He looked good in brief cameos like Stoke, and when the Bilbao game was all but lost. That doesn't mean he should have started. Good form in the reserves and good cameos should result in a start, and frankly Pogba wasn't good last season for the reserves. His attitude looked piss poor, as if he couldn't be bothered to put the work in as he knew he was destined to leave that level.
Comsmit said:
As for the difference in pressure, I don't agree. He is playing for a big club in a major league, playing Champions League football against the best on the continent. He is surrounded by supremely talented players with whom he must compete with for a starting spot in the first 11. You perhaps need to check out Serie A more often, Inter ended Juve's 49 match unbeaten run at the weekend, leaving them 2 points behind in the table...they are not crumbling they are improving all the time under a talented young manager. Plenty of good sides left in Italy it just happens Juve are the best of the current crop.
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In terms of direct competition for places then Juve is no easier (if not tougher) than United but quite simply the standard of Serie A football has dropped over the last few years. Both Milan teams have aged and not really replaced, there's been the whole scandal with the match fixing and far more cases of racism there. I'm aware that Juve recently lost their unbeaten run actually, and although I don't watch many Serie A games I try to find out results and frequently check out the league standings. The main point I'm trying to make about the Serie A is that Juve haven't had competition from a team who have spent like City have, nor a team who've spent like Chelsea have. Infact it's quite the opposite, with AC Milan being in real financial trouble and as a result having to sell many star players. Surely you realise that that alters the pressure on a team/player?
 
We're at the top of the Premier League ahead of a couple of cash clubs, and so far we're leading our CL group with maximum points. That's not to say I'm counting our chickens before they've hatched, but however good he's looked for Juve, we're hardly missing him are we?
 
Brightonian said:
We're at the top of the Premier League ahead of a couple of cash clubs, and so far we're leading our CL group with maximum points. That's not to say I'm counting our chickens before they've hatched, but however good he's looked for Juve, we're hardly missing him are we?
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That's a logical fallacy if ever I saw one.
 
Brightonian said:
We're at the top of the Premier League ahead of a couple of cash clubs, and so far we're leading our CL group with maximum points. That's not to say I'm counting our chickens before they've hatched, but however good he's looked for Juve, we're hardly missing him are we?
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we got knocked out of the carling cup because he went to juve :wenger:
 
Joemo said:
He could have been introduced earlier, and maybe should have had mroe cameos in the months leading up to December, but he didn't. The last group game of the Champions' League wasn't a throwaway game where you can start bedding in youngsters, as I'm sure you're aware. We were in a terrible position, mainly because we'd underestimated opposition in the previous games, and if Fergie had gone with another unproven youth player he would have been slaughtered. As it so happened he chose to play with experience, and had Rooney not missed the open goal from 3 yards out we would have progressed through to the next stage of the competition. Yes Jones may be the same age as Pogba, but he's had 2 full seasons of competitive top flight football. Ultimately Scholes' recall might have closed the door for Pogba, but it's Scholes, not just some half-arsed decent midfielder. If Pogba loses his chance to England's best midfielder of the last generation then so be it.
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No need to go into detail about the Basel game, we all know what was wrong with the Champions League campaign. I mentioned it merely as a reference to the fact United's engine room was in a mess way before the business end of the season. I was highlighting the fact that Ferguson had major problems before the return of Scholes....problems that might have allowed the introduction of a talented young player with a point to prove. Scholes' return was basically an SOS for Ferguson and it suited both parties. As much as I admire Paul Scholes it was a retrograde step, looking backwards rather than forwards.

Joemo said:
That's ridiculous, just because a player is raring to play for the first team doesn't mean that they're ready to handle the increased pressure that would be a result of having to maintain a higher performance. He looked good in brief cameos like Stoke, and when the Bilbao game was all but lost. That doesn't mean he should have started. Good form in the reserves and good cameos should result in a start, and frankly Pogba wasn't good last season for the reserves. His attitude looked piss poor, as if he couldn't be bothered to put the work in as he knew he was destined to leave that level.
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Ridiculous? Ferguson himself said that it would be wrong to hold Pogba back. How do you know they can't handle an upgrade in pressure until you test them? Pogba needed starts, not brief cameos....or at the very least more brief cameos than 7 substitute appearances all season. Incidentally he claimed in July when speaking about Nick Powell that "we can play 18 year olds, because it is part of our history, City can't do that." here he openly admits it is part of the club's ethos. Shame he didn't apply this statement more to Pogba last season.
 
I think we made a massive mistake with this lad. If he is ready to be scoring goals in Serie A for Juventus and playing Champions League football, then he was ready to play more games for us. And when it was initially announced that he was going to Juventus, so many on here said he has no other reason to go there other than money because it is harder to get in to their midfield then ours. It appears that Pogba's ability has been hugely underestimated (I include myself) and we have lost what seems to be an exceptionally talented young player for reasons I cannot really fathom.
 
Hectic said:
It's frustrating as feck because it was clear as day that both players were unbelievable talents, despite most of the forum doing a u-turn on that once they started making life difficult. Maybe it was still the best decision for the club, we can't really say, but I'd like to assume so given we would surely try harder to keep players of their potential. It's no surprise at all to hear Pogba is developing into a great footballer.
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Exactly.
 
The club allowed Pique, Rossi, and other talents to depart at a young age, Pogba is just another to go the same route. It happens and the club just continues to challenge for honors. Those players are often seeking more playing time as any professional should desire, and some also desire better compensation whether deserving or not.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. I still don't see all the fuss.

/thread
 
He chose to leave. The Club wanted to keep him. However, if he's playing fairly regularly at Juve and scoring goals he might think it was the right decision for him. He moves on, we move on. Someone will take his place.
 
We didn't let him go. He wanted to go, he turned down our offer for one he and his manager had orchestrated to Juve. The only way we could have rectified that was to pay a stupid amount, pay his agent a similar fee and promise him x amount of first team appearances. Something no one will ever get with us.
 
Name Changed said:
I think we made a massive mistake with this lad. If he is ready to be scoring goals in Serie A for Juventus and playing Champions League football, then he was ready to play more games for us. And when it was initially announced that he was going to Juventus, so many on here said he has no other reason to go there other than money because it is harder to get in to their midfield then ours. It appears that Pogba's ability has been hugely underestimated (I include myself) and we have lost what seems to be an exceptionally talented young player for reasons I cannot really fathom.
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How can you compare Serie A to The Premier League?

At the end of the day, you either support Fergie as the manager and accept that he will make 90% of decisions right, or don't back him. Pogba has gone, nearly half a year ago, we will sign other prospects, other prospects will come through our academy.
 
The hurt in this thread is pretty humerous.

It's always frustrating to lose good players but it happens. We knew what we were getting into when we poached him in the first place.

You could argue he should have been given more opportunities given his talent but then we don't really know what was going on behind closed doors?
 
He's class, of course it will hurt. However, for a 19 year old some of the exaggeration is a bit pathetic.
 
sammsky1 said:
Pogba left, we signed Powell.

/ thread.
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Powell is not as good as Pogba, nor has he yet shown he is as talented.

Open thread. ;)

Seriously though, it's worth keeping this discussion going. I'm personally really interested to see how good he goes on to become. It'll be frustrating if he really kicks on like it seems he's in the process of doing, but I'm not exactly reeling or dying inside from the whole episode. It will still be quite exciting for someone of Pogba's attributes to fulfil his potential because there really is an amazing player in the making there if it goes to plan.
 
It's true that some posts on here are a bit "sad", but those posts are still better than the ones like: "he's gone. close the thread."

1) He was our player and there hasn't exactly been anything wrong with any of the posts (breaking rules, etc.) to warrant the closing of this thread.

2) Nobody's forcing you to read or post in this thread, so again I don't know why some of you feel the need to say this "irritates" you.

3) He's got massive potential, and the reason why he left still stings, especialy regarding the circumstances, have we not discussed others who have moved on or have we completely "erased them" out of United existence?
 
OGkush said:
It's true that some posts on here are a bit "sad", but those posts are still better than the ones like: "he's gone. close the thread"

1) He was our player and there hasn't exactly been anything wrong with any of the posts (breaking rules, etc.)

2) Nobody's forcing you to read or post in this thread, so again I don't know why some of you feel the need to say this "irritates" them.

3) He's got massive potential, and the reason why he left still stings, especialy regarding the circumstances, have we not discussed others who have moved on or have we completely "erased them" out of United existence?
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I've no problem with people talking about him, just getting annoyed about all this it's fergies fault, he made a mistake balls.
 

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/ital...ventus-cannot-afford-top-players-says-marotta

With Marotta coming out saying that Juventus can't afford the top players today in this article, I think it's fair to say that it won't be long before Mr. Pogba is flirting with Real Madrid and City to seek a bigger pay day. Juventus fans singing his praises now will probably not have nice things to say about him in a couple of years.
 
Antonio Conte has announced a 22-man squad for Saturday night’s away encounter in Pescara.

Juventus will be without Paolo De Ceglie, Simone Pepe and Paul Pogba for the trip to Abruzzo.

De Ceglie misses out after reporting a light strain in the adductor muscle of his left thigh. Pepe will figure for the Primavera in Siena as he bids to regain full fitness, while Pogba remains behind in Turin after reporting late to training on two separate occasions.
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http://www.juventus.com/juve/en/news/9nov2012_onvoti_juve
 
Surprise, Surprise. Excellent talent but is probably too big headed. Raphael Honigstein wrote that he was due to make his debut against Crawley but missed the team bus and therefore was dropped out of first XI. It's amazing how many of Raiola's clients are arrogant. Zlatan and Balo amongst the major ones. Looks like Pogba will be another one.

Nice by Juve to wrote it on the OS btw. He's still gonna be an excellent player.
 
KM said:
Surprise, Surprise. Excellent talent but is probably too big headed. It's amazing how many of Raiola's clients are arrogant. Zlatan and Balo. Looks like Pogba will be another one.
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Hamsik though is the model pro.
 
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