That offer would never get to Pogba.Imagine we offer Pogba even 450k/week, on the condition that he fires Raiola. That would be the type of circus I enjoy.
Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”
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You might be right, but my wider point was about Pogba being potentially happier surrounded by better players, and how another year might change his mind (if his mind is even made up, which none of us really know).
Ha ha, I responded to my own question, not yours!
You've completely misunderstood how whataboutism is used as a somewhat transparent and pathetic weapon in response to another party's solid argument. That doesn't apply here; it's a completely different dynamic. How can it be whataboutism when I used the Alex Scott situation to bolster my own argument? In other words, the Alex Scott situation is simply another example of how racism plays out in the public arena, and it's entirely relevant given it also happened in the context of sport. FFS, dude, pay attention!Okay, let's give this a rest. It's perfectly clear that you don't want to entertain even for a moment the idea that racism might be behind some of the criticism directed at Paul Pogba. Nope, none of it could possibly be racism, how dare anyone even suggest it? Your mind is made up. So further conversation is literally pointless.
Indeed, only in crazy, delusional, lunatic world where people don't pay attention to how often he is injured, how few assists and goals he gets us for the price, and how horrible he is at losing the ball constantly. Basically, you would have to only remember the 2-3 good moments of his per season. But even then 450K is a fee only handful of players (or almost nobody) in the world is payed. Pogba isn't anywhere close to that level even at his very best.
We cannot even get an offer of 50 million for him, for feck's sake. And people want to pay him as if he is Messi in his prime? WTF? Market has spoken - he is bang average, even for clubs who think they can get the most out of him. In reality, people only want him if they can get him free. That is how "good" he is. Because he is UNRELIABLE and inconsistent!
How are we so crazy for a United fan to even entertain such thing?
I agree, However, I do think we need that mould of player regardless of Pogba staying or not. A holding midfielder is more of a need than a Pogba replacement, which is why if Pogba does leave we wouldn't replace him directly.
That doesn't mean we won't miss what Pogba brings to the team though and that's the point I'm trying to make.
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Racism behind the criticism, what??Ha ha, I responded to my own question, not yours!
Okay, let's give this a rest. It's perfectly clear that you don't want to entertain even for a moment the idea that racism might be behind some of the criticism directed at Paul Pogba. Nope, none of it could possibly be racism, how dare anyone even suggest it? Your mind is made up. So further conversation is literally pointless.
if he was consistent and his agent didn’t come out every few months saying he wants to leave, there would be NO criticism.
Get shot of him while we can still get a fee. On his day he's a class above however,those days a few and far between. I'm fed up of the what seems like every 6 months or so him or his slug of an agent posturing for a move or a huge new deal ( which in reference to a new improved deal he in no way deserves ). Cut our losses and sign someone who actually wants to be here.
He was also saying his goodbyes yesterday at lunch with bunch of teammates, DDG, Bruno, Mata and few others were there.
We can't get a fee, haven't been able to for the last couple of years, no one wants to pay for him and no one can these days. He has wanted to leave for the last 2 seasons. He'll leave for free next year 100%.
Welcome to the adult world where actions have consequences. He's flirted with Madrid publicly, multiple times, he's remained with his agent who clearly has a media agenda that has been a constant distraction. They're not exactly things that endear a player with fans. I remember the rucus when Rooney wanted to quit, he was a traitor etc but then he shut everyone up by his performances and people let bygones be bygones. And he'd been playing well before that.
Pogba's not done that. Instead what he seems to be demanding is to become one of the highest paid players on the planet off the back of 2 disappointing seasons based on his wage demands. And instead of keeping his head down, it was only last year he was coming out with how it was his dream to play for Madrid.
If we pay him 450k a week, what on earth are we going to have to pay people like Bruno when his contract negotiations come around? Because if I was him I'd take anything less being offered as a complete insult and the conversation would be how much more it should be.
People who are racist will find a reason to be racist.
Well said!
How can you criticize one colored player with racial intent when you have other black players on the team? I will never understand this argument. If you use racism, then it is against all colored players, end of!
I once said Bailly had no brains and had everyone accusing me of racism.
I wonder what people will call people who criticize Lindelof, as I am a big critic.
Did you think we wouldn't win the league in 2006/2007 when we sold RVN without a replacement?
Whether we sell Pogba or no, we can't let a player and his agent to take fully control this situation. We must decide, he signs a new contract this summer or sell him so we can use the fees to buy the right midfielder to play in the right system to get the best out of our player so we can be competitive in challenging. One thing for sure there is always a way to still compete even if we lose our top player and we done this many times before.
This.
People just have to make a mountain out of a molehill these days and accuse people of being racist when in actual fact Pogba and his entourage has been acting like twats his entire stint with us.
Is it racist to want to replace Pogba with Camavinga?
I am happy where I am.
1. He's a talented footballer.
2. He does like the club and is a model professional. ( But that means he lets his agent and family do his dirty work )
3. We haven't seen enough of his best in a united shirt.
4. He should not be offered the contract that he wants to sign in order to stay.
5. I will wish him all the luck when he's playing somewhere else if and when he leaves.
6. If he stays, I will be wishing him all the luck all the same because I am a United supporter and he'd be a united player.
Ageist
How did it even get here?
This. Fans being upset with Pogba is not racism and trying to call it that is just muddying the waters
Some have missed the point of the racism arguement it seems. The poster did not (as far as I can tell) claim that everyone criticising Pogba has done it due to racism. They brought up the likelihood (or possibility for the sensitive souls) that some of it, a non negligible amount, would be down to racism and stereotypes.
I argued that that's obvious* (to anyone that's been paying attention), most of you accepted that fact, but we are still here, and posters are still confusing the issue. Hopefully it's clear now...
*
I argued that that's obvious* (to anyone that's been paying attention), most of you accepted that fact, but we are still here, and posters are still confusing the issue. Hopefully it's clear now...
*
- There are numerous examples of the racism aimed at our players, racism in football, racism in society...
- Redcafe discourages overt racism (and long may that continue) so you won't see as much as you do in other places.
- Racism is not always obvious (it usually isn't tbf), sometimes it's micro-aggressions. Sometimes it's stereotyping, or prejudice.
- Why is there always pushback? Why do people feel personally accused?
- I feel like I'm stating the obvious...
- I'm done...
I imagine this is a 'lost in translation' moment but just fyi, this is not the right word to use. Not being picky but just letting you know for future reference.
Sorry but it’s complete nonsense. He gets criticized when he plays badly, or when his agent says he wants to leave. A small number don’t like his personality. End off. Let’s not try and say that there is invisible racism there, where does that argument end for anything?
Bro, it is what it is. I wish it was different but it ain't... You are speaking for yourself and that's fine. But look further, be open minded, you thinking that there is no invisible racism here or anywhere else doesn't make it go away.
What's so hard to accept about it anyway? That the same guys calling him or anyone else a monkey are elsewhere claiming he doesn't have enough assists or rinsing his agent?
If you don't like someone (for whatever reason) You'll find fault in anything they do. Hair, dancing, etc...
We don't have to see this issue the same way, it's ok to disagree, but there are reasons that's the case and it's important for both of us to acknowledge that. My experiences and environment (which affect how I perceive things) are different to yours.
I get why for some of you its difficulty when these things are brought up. I don't however, get the push back and the exaggerated claims of how it (or anything) couldn't possibly be race related. You don't know, you feel that it isn't a thing (I say this because this seems to be what you are saying but correct me if I'm wrong). I feel that it is a thing (tbf I fecking know, but I digress) and like I said earlier, based on what's been happening lately it's not a leap is it?
Fixed that for you. Rashford gets it and he's been playing through injury, McTominay gets it and he's been okay. In fact the vast majority of our current and past players get it, whether they play good or bad. It don't take much
This is such a weird take. Are we not allowed to address it now? Sorry but not sorry...
There was pushback from a handfull of posters, which sparked some debate for a few pages. Nobody actually got called racist, nobody got banned for racism. Not that deep..
Easily?
Agreed here, but what does that matter to the racist who has "black friends" but they're "alright, not like the others"?
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How in the world did you cnuts draw me into another one of "these" arguements? I've avoided them for sooo long....
Anyway I hope Pogba stays, I see this the same way I saw the Ronaldo issue. I he wants to go, fine. If he wants to stay then great as I like him as a player. We'll survive regardless...
Anyway I hope Pogba stays, I see this the same way I saw the Ronaldo issue. I he wants to go, fine. If he wants to stay then great as I like him as a player. We'll survive regardless...
Why does everything have to be turned to a racist angle?
no-one on these boards have called any United player a monkey or anything similar. We wouldn’t stand for it.
anyway I’m done because there are enough threads on racism here without turning more that way
no-one on these boards have called any United player a monkey or anything similar. We wouldn’t stand for it.
anyway I’m done because there are enough threads on racism here without turning more that way
*Well that escalated quickly gif*
The press have a huge reason as to why people dislike Pogba.
He gets so much noise as they know it riles people up and makes them want to click.
Just recently he was reported to have rejected a contract, but how does anybody actually know that? it's all made up.
He's obviously considering his future, but so far it seems he's waiting to see if United really mean business before committing himself. I think that's fair enough.
The club obviously don't want to sell him either and would rather he leaves on a free if necessary. I wish people would just relax a bit.
He gets so much noise as they know it riles people up and makes them want to click.
Just recently he was reported to have rejected a contract, but how does anybody actually know that? it's all made up.
He's obviously considering his future, but so far it seems he's waiting to see if United really mean business before committing himself. I think that's fair enough.
The club obviously don't want to sell him either and would rather he leaves on a free if necessary. I wish people would just relax a bit.
Considering he's such an unprofessional player according to some here, I'm surprised he's never skipped training like the exemplary Harry Kane...
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Rio just made a similar point earlier
It'd be an actual circus if he ever tried forcing a move like some of his contemporaries, not a manufactured one
That's reasonable view on this situation. We must accept we know nothing about how things stand from both club (if they ever offered him a deal, what wages, how many years; if there were any serious offers for PP) AND from Pogba (if he really did refuse an offer, if he wants to move or just more money, if he rejected a move because he wants to go somewhere else etc.).
Most things are happening in people heads when they try to connect the dots of leaked (not necessarily true) information, and the picture might look totally different. The only thing we can criticize Pogba is how he and his agent communicated mid-season his desire to leave, but still we don't know what were his real intentions. I do not think the club can be blamed at all though.
What would you like to call it "Black"? Racism can be towards any person of color.
Is he part of the squad that left for Scotland? If not then we can come to a conclusion about him leaving this summer.
'Colored' has a bunch of negative connotations. I'm not having a go, just letting you know.
Ronaldo (his agent?) regularly used us as a a 'lever' to improve his contract. Riola uses Juventus, Real Madrid, PSG or whoever.
Bro, it is what it is. I wish it was different but it ain't... You are speaking for yourself and that's fine. But look further, be open minded, you thinking that there is no invisible racism here or anywhere else doesn't make it go away.
What's so hard to accept about it anyway? That the same guys calling him or anyone else a monkey are elsewhere claiming he doesn't have enough assists or rinsing his agent?
If you don't like someone (for whatever reason) You'll find fault in anything they do. Hair, dancing, etc...
We don't have to see this issue the same way, it's ok to disagree, but there are reasons that's the case and it's important for both of us to acknowledge that. My experiences and environment (which affect how I perceive things) are different to yours.
I get why for some of you its difficulty when these things are brought up. I don't however, get the push back and the exaggerated claims of how it (or anything) couldn't possibly be race related. You don't know, you feel that it isn't a thing (I say this because this seems to be what you are saying but correct me if I'm wrong). I feel that it is a thing (tbf I fecking know, but I digress) and like I said earlier, based on what's been happening lately it's not a leap is it?
Fixed that for you. Rashford gets it and he's been playing through injury, McTominay gets it and he's been okay. In fact the vast majority of our current and past players get it, whether they play good or bad. It don't take much
This is such a weird take. Are we not allowed to address it now? Sorry but not sorry...
There was pushback from a handfull of posters, which sparked some debate for a few pages. Nobody actually got called racist, nobody got banned for racism. Not that deep..
Easily?
Agreed here, but what does that matter to the racist who has "black friends" but they're "alright, not like the others"?
It's way too easy to label everything as racism. I got hounded on here for calling Bailly brainless for on-field performances but was accused of being a racist despite me being Asian and facing lots of racism myself.
Massively. That Rio tweet being a good example of how they would shape the narrative...
It's easy to say anything about anything so what's your point? Don't accuse people without evidence? Agreed there... One thing I will say to you and others though, if you get accused of racism incorrectly. Correct them and move on. Often time there's no point in getting into heated debate as we all know carrying an argument on past it's conclusion rarely does much to change minds, and holding onto it (like you seem to have done) likely does nothing but influence how you react/feel about these incidents going forwards. Readers will usually understand, or ask for clarification if they don't, and the entrenched.... will remain entrenched...
If you know you aren't a racist, relax and move on, but if you made a mistake... Own it, learn from it, and then move on.
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Not having a go at you either, but what negative "connotations" are we talking about here? I am Asian and am a person of color, I am not black.
What is the word to use in such situation? I always thought "colored" is a general and neutral word.
I think referring to him as a person of colour would be fine, particularly in the US, but 'coloured' is rather different. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-30999175.