Paul Pogba | Back in full training

To them I assume Leadership is flying around the pitch with crunching tackles and shouting at the opponents/referee? not really sure.

One cannot be a leader for France (as we have seen videos of from the WC Final), then lose all leadership qualities at his club. A leader will be a leader at club & country. The reason for all of this is we have forgotten Pogba's quality. Last season was a disaster of a start under Jose with all the off field issues, then he had a spell of pure quality under Ole and this season he has been injured.

I’m convinced Pogba playing with Bruno, McT, Fred or an in-form Matic will be amazing.


I agree with this, we have seen how Bruno gets into space, he will be there to provide Pogba with a pass option in the midfield. I cannot wait to see them play together.
 
Yep we hear way more positives than negatives - which makes me always wonder what these chaps are talking about.

To them I assume Leadership is flying around the pitch with crunching tackles and shouting at the opponents/referee? not really sure.

@Betson What is your definition of leadership, what do you want to see from Pogba?


Leadership is what the likes of Roy Keane had , soundbites are all good and well but pointless .

Where it matters is on the pitch , especially when things are going wrong etc always giving 100% and just as important demanding the same off the players around you , be it on the training pitch or in a match. Being a good player is not enough at the level we want to get to.

I don't know what he does in training but so far we have not seen enough of it in matches. I hope to see a more assertive Pogba on the pitch who is looking to get involved all the time and not let large parts of a Match pass him by,

He has all the ability which is the hard part , just needs a more determined attitude.
 
Leadership is what the likes of Roy Keane had , soundbites are all good and well but pointless .

Where it matters is on the pitch , especially when things are going wrong etc always giving 100% and just as important demanding the same off the players around you , be it on the training pitch or in a match. Being a good player is not enough at the level we want to get to.

I don't know what he does in training but so far we have not seen enough of it in matches. I hope to see a more assertive Pogba on the pitch who is looking to get involved all the time and not let large parts of a Match pass him by,

He has all the ability which is the hard part , just needs a more determined attitude.

I think you want him to be a different player. He isn't a Roy Keane and never will be, not many are.

That isn't the only kind of leadership.

Pogba isn't going to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and dictate the play.

However, if you have players who can control the game alongside him, he will create chances. Even when the team hasn't been playing particularly well he still creates chances.

I also don't think you're taking into account how difficult it is when the opposition know he's the only creative outlet.

With Fernandes alongside him and the continued improvement of McTominay and Fred things should be different.

I can't see it happening but if the team turn out to be better without him than with him he'll be gone.
 
If McT continues to improve, Fred maintains where he was and Bruno and Pogba click it'll be the best United midfield in 20 years. That's kind of nuts given how much we've spent, but Fergie always failed at that, and we've barely been better since he left.

Anyone remember the half season of O'Shea and Giggs as a CMF pair? Good times. They weren't even that bad.
 
I'm not concerned about the bullshit as long as they come together as a team and play for each other. I've been one of Pogba's biggest critics because I feel that it's always been about him instead it has to be up to him. Lampard is correct in his assessment of Pogba unfortunately but that's not a bad thing for him or us. He needs to find his place in this team/squad/club not the whole place twisting and turning to accommodate a player that has contributed to where we find ourselves today.
I see a lot of positive signs from the team and Pogba. This is his challenge now, we are more positive and the big bonus of Fred and McT coming good should provide Pogba with everything he needs to play in his golden spot. No more excuses.
 
Nothing wrong with what Lampard says, but it lacks context - when Pogba has played in functional teams/midfield, which was the case at Juve and currently with France, there have not been any issues. Our team, as a cohesive unit, has been an issue for quite some time now.
 
This is the reason why players already on high contracts won't be moving this year - I'm still 50/50 on Pogba but this is his chance to shine alongside Bruno and Fred/McTom in midfield add Sancho for a title winning team IMO

It's interesting how some players, by taking on such massive contracts, create a kind of prison for themselves. The idea of a player in their mid-20s taking a pay cut to join a preferred side seems anathema.
 
I've not been a major critic of Pogba, but I am guilty of making some reactionary comments about selling him (particularly when his agent has trash talked Ole or the club).

But in reality, all the people that work with him now and in the past only have good things to say about him as a person. So important to not let the media cloud that.

It's a shame his second stint at the club has coincided with some shit managers and an unacceptable standard of squad, and of course some injuries.

I remember the early days watching Pogba in the youth team, and when watching the FA youth cup final at Old Trafford it was exciting to see this great talent on the cusp of the first team squad.

Pogba is a star, that's why he's big news and divides opinion. But I think now is the time for anyone that had a problem with him to draw a line under it and hope that we can see him produce his best levels in a United shirt when the game returns.
I'm kind of hoping that we can draw a line under the divisions about Pogba and it works out, particularly with Fernandes. There's no doubt about his footballing abilities and I think he is a player who needs other good players around him or he switches off (like Ronaldo in the Portuguese team). The COVID business has changed the complexion of this - if we hadn't had the hiatus he might well be on his way out, but it's guesswork what the transfer market is going to be like this summer and injured players have had extra time to recover.

There is, though, a problem with him which is not just to do with him being a star and the media. Add together his original decision to leave because he wasn't in the first team, his problems with Mourinho (badly handled by the manager but can't have been entirely his fault) and the continuing "he's on his way back, now he isn't" since his injury, combined with his social media behaviour and the noise from his agent and there's a legitimate argument that this is too much about Pogba and not enough about the club or the team. If there's any sign that he's a negative influence when he returns because of his own behaviour on or off the pitch, Ole should read the riot act. We were looking as if we were at a turning point in March, and we can't allow the needs of the team to be dictated by accommodating one player.

When you say "some shit managers", he's only played at Utd under Jose and Ole, so I take it you consider both of them shit.
 
Nothing wrong with what Lampard says, but it lacks context - when Pogba has played in functional teams/midfield, which was the case at Juve and currently with France, there have not been any issues. Our team, as a cohesive unit, has been an issue for quite some time now.
Bingo - I assume what he's trying to say is Pogba holds onto the ball too long and ends up trying to dribble his way out of trouble, but this was all mainly created by 2 things

Lack of team cohesion and shape.

Forwards not making enough off the ball movement.

Pogba does have a penchant for a hollywood pass, but that's why he's always at the top of creative lists also. When the team aren't lively he can hang onto it while looking and ends up getting pressed, but he will back himself to beat his marker and get passed him. This doesn't really happen for France as he has good enough options to move it on faster.

Under Ole we have been much better in this aspect so I suspect it won't happen so much, especially with Bruno ahead.
 
I get what Lampard is trying to say, and it's undeniable that he's been right on some points where at times Pogba does make stupid decisions in his own half. His nature, when he has the ball, is to make something happen because he has the ability to create danger through a long ball from pretty much anywhere on the field, and I think there's partly his fault for leaning too much in that nature when he needs to be more conservative. The flip side to that coin is that you want to have a player like Pogba on your team because you need someone who's willing to make those unexpected pass, or that dribble out of trouble that suddenly opens up a counter-attack, but it has to be properly covered by the rest of the team whether it's the defense and midfield backing him up, or the forwards making those runs that will create a dangerous pass.

Ideally, you want Pogba to be able to manage himself the dangers of some of his decisions without having to put it on his teammates to cover him up if he screws up, and I think the best recent example of that has been Pogba for France in the WC during the knock out stages, but he had a solid midfield and defense to back him up in case of failures, and it's ended up creating a ton of dangerous occasions for France sparked by him making those daring passes.

Pogba's far from a perfect player, but with the right teammates around him, he can easily be this team's best player without as much of the drawbacks. The issues he has can be ironed out, especially when this new midfield gets familiar with one another, and I wouldn't replace Pogba with any other midfielders because he can do things most of them can't while being a player that's physically suited for the premier league. I can't wait to see him back out there now.
 


Seems to be a much more positive atmosphere around the squad heading into the restart in 2 weeks time. Almost can't wait to see how the team looks fully healthy, gonna be plenty of opportunities to get on the same wavelength as well with 4 matches scheduled in the span of 11 days
 


Seems to be a much more positive atmosphere around the squad heading into the restart in 2 weeks time. Almost can't wait to see how the team looks fully healthy, gonna be plenty of opportunities to get on the same wavelength as well with 4 matches scheduled in the span of 11 days

For a second , it looked like a blue walking stick....phew!
 
Bingo - I assume what he's trying to say is Pogba holds onto the ball too long and ends up trying to dribble his way out of trouble, but this was all mainly created by 2 things

Lack of team cohesion and shape.

Forwards not making enough off the ball movement.

Pogba does have a penchant for a hollywood pass, but that's why he's always at the top of creative lists also. When the team aren't lively he can hang onto it while looking and ends up getting pressed, but he will back himself to beat his marker and get passed him. This doesn't really happen for France as he has good enough options to move it on faster.

Under Ole we have been much better in this aspect so I suspect it won't happen so much, especially with Bruno ahead.
Exactly - I mean I love a midfielder that can keep possession and is more of a tempo setter, but that's not really Pogba's game, and his propensity to go for those Hollywood passes haven't been an issue elsewhere and are what makes him special, and more importantly what will help us win games. Rather than trying to rein that in, it's nice to see that the team that is being built fits that style.

Also, the season with Zlatan was a good example of how a striker with good movement works very well with Pogba. I remember many occasions where he found really clever passes for Zlatan, lots of them not leading to goals because of Ibra's wastefulness in front of goal (even though he did very well here, not saying the opposite).
 
I get what Lampard is trying to say, and it's undeniable that he's been right on some points where at times Pogba does make stupid decisions in his own half. His nature, when he has the ball, is to make something happen because he has the ability to create danger through a long ball from pretty much anywhere on the field, and I think there's partly his fault for leaning too much in that nature when he needs to be more conservative. The flip side to that coin is that you want to have a player like Pogba on your team because you need someone who's willing to make those unexpected pass, or that dribble out of trouble that suddenly opens up a counter-attack, but it has to be properly covered by the rest of the team whether it's the defense and midfield backing him up, or the forwards making those runs that will create a dangerous pass.

Ideally, you want Pogba to be able to manage himself the dangers of some of his decisions without having to put it on his teammates to cover him up if he screws up, and I think the best recent example of that has been Pogba for France in the WC during the knock out stages, but he had a solid midfield and defense to back him up in case of failures, and it's ended up creating a ton of dangerous occasions for France sparked by him making those daring passes.

Pogba's far from a perfect player, but with the right teammates around him, he can easily be this team's best player without as much of the drawbacks. The issues he has can be ironed out, especially when this new midfield gets familiar with one another, and I wouldn't replace Pogba with any other midfielders because he can do things most of them can't while being a player that's physically suited for the premier league. I can't wait to see him back out there now.
He's guilty of forcing things, playing the long ball, holding onto the ball too long and trying to shield the ball whilst under pressure. He does those things A. because he's capable and B. because of the pressure there has been on him to be the sole creative force in the side in the time he's been here.

Now that there is a better quality of player around him and other creative players in the side like Bruno I'm confident we will see Pogba's best spell in a United shirt.

I'm buzzing to see how he integrates with the dynamic Bruno and the much improved Fred.
 
Exactly - I mean I love a midfielder that can keep possession and is more of a tempo setter, but that's not really Pogba's game, and his propensity to go for those Hollywood passes haven't been an issue elsewhere and are what makes him special, and more importantly what will help us win games. Rather than trying to rein that in, it's nice to see that the team that is being built fits that style.

Also, the season with Zlatan was a good example of how a striker with good movement works very well with Pogba. I remember many occasions where he found really clever passes for Zlatan, lots of them not leading to goals because of Ibra's wastefulness in front of goal (even though he did very well here, not saying the opposite).
Yep you could practically make a compilation of about 20 "should be goal" misses from that season it was bonkers.

It all went a bit tits up for Jose once Zlatan left really. It seemed like he was the only player he really respected and kept him grounded and bridged the 2 together.
 
He loves what He does because now what He does involves Bruno Fernandes which improves the squad quality a lot which was what Pogba wanted and He hinted it to Raiola who dissed the club and disagreed with Paul Scholes He said He would be there if the club wanted him but the club only wanted what They wanted you are an image of a relationship.
 
It is from 17 May 2018, before he was even Derby manager. Just a pundit giving his opinion.

Reads more like a Jose disciple trying to back Jose. For Former players just don’t disrespect Pogba the way Lampard has here, he’s clearly sticking up for his old boss, but his old boss has lost it. Lampard should come back when he’s won a World Cup. He benefitted from a system at Chelsea that got the best out of him. On a national level he was mediocre. You’d think he’d get it, since Pogba is the opposite.
 
Reads more like a Jose disciple trying to back Jose. For Former players just don’t disrespect Pogba the way Lampard has here, he’s clearly sticking up for his old boss, but his old boss has lost it. Lampard should come back when he’s won a World Cup. He benefitted from a system at Chelsea that got the best out of him. On a national level he was mediocre. You’d think he’d get it, since Pogba is the opposite.

Lampard knows a thing or two about making the most of your talent as a midfielder in the prem and as a midfielder being managed by Jose (which is the context here).

He's said nothing more harsh than any other pundit over the last few years, including ex Man United players who were not fans of Jose. Paul Scholes here said virtually the same thing as Lampard here (he had a little spat with Pogba's agent I think):
"He could be a player who needs a Bryan Robson or a Roy Keane next to him just to give him a little rollicking every now and then. If he doesn't get that he just carries on in his own little fantasy world, thinking he's the best.

You see his stud rolling, he needs to become more clever about what he’s doing.
His strengths are running, passing the ball, getting into the box, scoring goals, assisting goals.
Once he starts stud rolling and trying to beat men, it’s not his game, he becomes easy to play against."

Do we know why Lampard's comments from years ago have been dug up now?
 
Its interesting to see how he plays now with a midfield that doesnt depend only on him for creativity. I feel like we finally have players around him that can actually take some of the pressure off and allow him to flourish. With Bruno, we have another outlet that can drive forward and pull midfielders out of position.
 
The selection and role of Pogba will be the most important decision Ole and the coaching staff make in the run in.

Fred and McTom were playing so well leading up to the lock down and Bruno slotted in brilliantly with more of a free role but prepared to put a real shift in to provide an "all action" midfield of 3 - we will have reduced attacking width if we play all 4 in a diamond formation and rely heavily on attacking full backs which could work.

As the first match is Spurs away with good discipline required I wouldn't be surprised to see Pogba coming off the bench but whatever role he plays it must be with 100% commitment to match work rate with creativity otherwise we don't get top 4 and basically it's in his hands - personally I can't wait as that midfield is already set up perfectly with or without Pogba !
 
The selection and role of Pogba will be the most important decision Ole and the coaching staff make in the run in.

Fred and McTom were playing so well leading up to the lock down and Bruno slotted in brilliantly with more of a free role but prepared to put a real shift in to provide an "all action" midfield of 3 - we will have reduced attacking width if we play all 4 in a diamond formation and rely heavily on attacking full backs which could work.

As the first match is Spurs away with good discipline required I wouldn't be surprised to see Pogba coming off the bench but whatever role he plays it must be with 100% commitment to match work rate with creativity otherwise we don't get top 4 and basically it's in his hands - personally I can't wait as that midfield is already set up perfectly with or without Pogba !

No it isn’t.
 
The selection and role of Pogba will be the most important decision Ole and the coaching staff make in the run in.

Fred and McTom were playing so well leading up to the lock down and Bruno slotted in brilliantly with more of a free role but prepared to put a real shift in to provide an "all action" midfield of 3 - we will have reduced attacking width if we play all 4 in a diamond formation and rely heavily on attacking full backs which could work.

As the first match is Spurs away with good discipline required I wouldn't be surprised to see Pogba coming off the bench but whatever role he plays it must be with 100% commitment to match work rate with creativity otherwise we don't get top 4 and basically it's in his hands - personally I can't wait as that midfield is already set up perfectly with or without Pogba !

It was Matic and Fred.

McT was injured since the Newcastle game in December, and he didn't play until the last 3 games prior to the lockdown where he made 2 sub appearances
 
It’s really exciting to see whether it will work with Bruno and Pogba. Theoretically at least, they should be a nightmare to play against. You can’t give either any time on the ball, but double teaming means leaving the other man.

Just thinking of all the times this year that Fred has had the space to fire shots over the bar, imagine Bruno or Pogba being on the end of them.

I actually think the behind closed doors factor might help us more than most too. Atmosphere at OT isnt usually a big advantage for us and the players seem to be very fragile mentally, so it might take pressure off.
 
It was Matic and Fred.

McT was injured since the Newcastle game in December, and he didn't play until the last 3 games prior to the lockdown where he made 2 sub appearances
Apologies I'd forgotten about Matic (lockdown fever!) my point is that Pogba doesn't become an automatic choice and if he is selected it's a big decision for Ole and he needs to perform better than the 3 midfielders Fred, McTom or Matic - Ok now ?
 
Apologies I'd forgotten about Matic (lockdown fever!) my point is that Pogba doesn't become an automatic choice and if he is selected it's a big decision for Ole and he needs to perform better than the 3 midfielders Fred, McTom or Matic - Ok now ?

That’s probably how you would like it to be, but not how it will be in reality. He will play if he’s fit.
 
Apologies I'd forgotten about Matic (lockdown fever!) my point is that Pogba doesn't become an automatic choice and if he is selected it's a big decision for Ole and he needs to perform better than the 3 midfielders Fred, McTom or Matic - Ok now ?

He’s been our best midfielder since he returned. It’s your perception and expectations that are questionable. Imagine McT played like Pogba has over the past three years or Matic or Fred. You don’t have the same expectations of them so as such what you find acceptable is different. In the case of Pogba you have higher expectations. That does t change the fact that he generally performs better than the other three because he is better than them.
 
Apologies I'd forgotten about Matic (lockdown fever!) my point is that Pogba doesn't become an automatic choice and if he is selected it's a big decision for Ole and he needs to perform better than the 3 midfielders Fred, McTom or Matic - Ok now ?
This is the reality maybe in football manager, but in the real world managers play their best players when they are fit, it's as simple as that. Ole as well as his managing stuff don't need to wait for Pogba to prove himself to them like some of you lots want to believe. They know exactly what Pogba is capable of, the only issue here would be to check his fitness level. If he's fit which I think he is he gets to play.

Everyone, from Ole, pundits, players and most fans gets this. They know that a fit Pogba walks back into the starting line up as happens in every team when their best players return from long injury lay off. If ever Pogba has to be coming from the bench or play bit part, reason for that would be due to fitness, not some attempt from manager trying to get him to prove himself. Everyone and their dogs know what Pogba is capable of.
 
He’s been our best midfielder since he returned. It’s your perception and expectations that are questionable. Imagine McT played like Pogba has over the past three years or Matic or Fred. You don’t have the same expectations of them so as such what you find acceptable is different. In the case of Pogba you have higher expectations. That does t change the fact that he generally performs better than the other three because he is better than them.

Agreed. There are lots of people who seem to think that putting a graft in is enough for lads like McTominay. It isn’t. He needs to be taking charge of games. He should be held to the standards we expect of our other midfielders. That’s not to say I expect him to be Pogba, as that would be unfair and, frankly, ludicrous. But I expect more than winning a few tackles and looking up for it. To his credit, he’s been making more of an impact in recent months (prior to injury). Pogba still walks in front of him, of course, you’re right.
 
In a nutshell it's really simple. Pogba is held to higher standards.

A McTominay 8/10 is probably 6/10 for Pogba or lower.

Of course he walks back in it's not even a conversation.