[Firaaz]

So if they confirm how poorly the team has performed as a whole why are you pitching up in the performance thread of an injured player when others have performed worse?

We know Pogba is leaving, as a fanbase we’re all disappointed in the player to varying degrees but you’re recycling the same old vitriol in here instead of focusing on players that we’ll be lumbered with beyond this season despite being worse than a disappointing Pogba. Bizarre.

This is my point too.

Pogba may not have lit up our team as much as we hoped, but he has had much better performances than Fred, McTominay and VDB.

It clearly has not worked out for him. Some of it down to our management and the way we play and some of it down to Pogba himself. But I for one think he is still one of our better players and I would rather have him in the team at the moment, especially away from home.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So if they confirm how poorly the team has performed as a whole why are you pitching up in the performance thread of an injured player when others have performed worse?

We know Pogba is leaving, as a fanbase we’re all disappointed in the player to varying degrees but you’re recycling the same old vitriol in here instead of focusing on players that we’ll be lumbered with beyond this season despite being worse than a disappointing Pogba. Bizarre.

Your whole approach to football discussions on here is beyond parody. I saw the Pogba thread bumped and assumed there might be an update on his tedious fecking contract saga. I then read some posts and responded to them. That’s how this place works.

Apologies for not going through every other thread about a Manchester United player and posting something equally critical about them in the interest of balance. You’ll be a long time waiting if that’s the redcafe utopia you’re hoping for.

 

[RUCK4444]

As seems to be the case with our £80mil captain that the Caf still want to proclaim is only in bad form because, ‘lindelof, bailly, DdG doesn’t come off his line, he’s unfit’ etc.

Show me a player who has consistently played well without question during Pogba's time here that isn't called De Gea (even he has had lows) ?

I suppose you subscribe to the opinion that we've made multiple terrible managerial appointments and the coaching/tactics have been questionable at best? There's your answer on why nobody springs out as a consistent top performer in all that time.

So yes there is an element of this 'in favour' of all poor performing players but it's not the only point on Pogba, far from it in my opinion. We knew what we needed to do to get the best from Pogba before we bought him, either play him in a free(er) role off the left of a midfield three or at the base of midfield provided he's partnered with a top level defensive midfielder. Instead we signed Matic who's legs went on his trip to Manchester and we have since played him with McFred ... meanwhile the Fifa fanbase section during his time here tune into every game expecting Pogba to singlehandedly fix all our problems when we haven't even done the basics of what we knew was needed before we bought him. And he's STILL been one of our best performers in his time here.

That's why I cut him a little slack and is why I think we have made a disgraceful attempt at getting the most out of our investment in him. He's a specialist player, a cheery on the cake type for a functioning team, bought by clowns who had no idea how to use him.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Individual player rankings on sites like Whoscored come with their own set of problems and I wouldn't put too much stock in them, really. In some ways, the ranking on pure fan sites like the Caf can be more illuminating, at least if the sample size is big enough.

Nevertheless, if the idea is that Pogba tends to deliver a handful of very good performances which drag his average rating up, then it might be interesting to look at his median rating and compare that to the average. For this season the tendency seems to be that his median is a bit lower than his average.

Another thing to look at is how he compares to team mates in games where the overall rating is low/poor. A common perception is that he when he's bad, he's really bad - and this too should be reflected to some degree in the ratings.

However, this may not mean much unless you look at it across a full season/a large sample size. I can' t be arsed to do this - but, again, it might prove interesting.

 

[CloneMC16]

It really is. He’s been an absolute disaster of a signing and rinsed the club for millions. Thanks for Juanfield and a handful of other performances and that’s about it. He’s not been a regular since about his second or third season.

I can't believe that this is Mata's 9th season at the club. He's been largely shite and our fanbase doesn't talk about it. It's pretty unreal. How he got a new contract will always baffle me.

 

[Jeppers7]

I can't believe that this is Mata's 9th season at the club. He's been largely shite and our fanbase doesn't talk about it. It's pretty unreal. How he got a new contract will always baffle me.

‘Likeable’

 

[Jeppers7]

You fanboys are crazy, statement of fact

I'm not even sure Pogba has completed a single season of consistently high performances for us. Arguably the first season the rest have been littered with periods of torrid form and lapses of concentration that cost the team.

All these constant threads about how he's not been utilised correctly, we need to play him elsewhere, we need to change the formation. Those are not the signs of a player performing to a consistently high standard.

I think Roy Keane was the last player I saw do that

 

[Jeppers7]

For a player who blows so hot and cold it would be weird if Pogba didn’t pick up a relatively high number of MOTM awards.

Emphasis on “relatively”…

Equals ‘wank’ ??

Goalposts everywhere!!

 

[Jeppers7]

He’s been our best performer in less than 1 in 5 games. How he performed in the other 4 games is a better barometer of how well he’s played for us overall. And I suspect the answer is “badly”.

Could also post this in Martial or Bruno thread….so it applies to all our best performing players over the past five years.

 

[Jeppers7]

On what metric, I'd say on great games he's in the top 5 arguably top 3 and on terrible games the worst 5. He's been the player who makes the most mistakes per minute in the team and one of the worst in the league too.

When you sign a player who is supposed to be the star and he's up and down that's a huge issue. His inconsistency and mistakes will mean ultimately he's been a flop when he leaves, he can't possibly be considered one of our best players just based on half the picture.

Can you give more context to this? Where is this taken from? What constitutes a mistake? What’s the source? What’s the timeframe?

 

[JPRouve]

Individual player rankings on sites like Whoscored come with their own set of problems and I wouldn't put too much stock in them, really. In some ways, the ranking on pure fan sites like the Caf can be more illuminating, at least if the sample size is big enough.

Nevertheless, if the idea is that Pogba tends to deliver a handful of very good performances which drag his average rating up, then it might be interesting to look at his median rating and compare that to the average. For this season the tendency seems to be that his median is a bit lower than his average.

Another thing to look at is how he compares to team mates in games where the overall rating is low/poor. A common perception is that he when he's bad, he's really bad - and this too should be reflected to some degree in the ratings.

However, this may not mean much unless you look at it across a full season/a large sample size. I can' t be arsed to do this - but, again, it might prove interesting.

First I definitely don't like grades in all sites including whoscored, so I don't actually give it any value in isolation but when it matches what match threads think we can take it into account.

Now I'm way too lazy to do it for more than one season or recheck it but in 17/18 in the league and according to Whoscored his mean was 7.53 and the median 7.5. There are 27 items in the list and a range of 2.9, from 6.2 to 9.1.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Your whole approach to football discussions on here is beyond parody. I saw the Pogba thread bumped and assumed there might be an update on his tedious fecking contract saga. I then read some posts and responded to them. That’s how this place works.

Apologies for not going through every other thread about a Manchester United player and posting something equally critical about them in the interest of balance. You’ll be a long time waiting if that’s the redcafe utopia you’re hoping for.

Your approach to every Pogba thread is beyond parody.

I’ll limp it in with woeful ignorance in this case though because when we’re you asked to go into every player thread & criticise players? As has been pointed out in here your critique of Pogba is delusional so you’re not being asked to parrot it for others at all.

Now it could well be coincidence that you seem to log on when Pogba threads are bumped & engage by its par for the course with yourself. I’m just yet to see the same energy for other failures at the club, you throw that much shit at Pogba some of it actually sticks but as you’ve said, he’s generally been ‘the best of a bad bunch’ so unless you are only logging on when Pogba threads are bumped I’d expect worse from you in multiple other threads during the course of a season or few.

Show me a player who has consistently played well without question during Pogba's time here that isn't called De Gea (even he has had lows) ?

I suppose you subscribe to the opinion that we've made multiple terrible managerial appointments and the coaching/tactics have been questionable at best? There's your answer on why nobody springs out as a consistent top performer in all that time.

So yes there is an element of this 'in favour' of all poor performing players but it's not the only point on Pogba, far from it in my opinion. We knew what we needed to do to get the best from Pogba before we bought him, either play him in a free(er) role off the left of a midfield three or at the base of midfield provided he's partnered with a top level defensive midfielder. Instead we signed Matic who's legs went on his trip to Manchester and we have since played him with McFred ... meanwhile the Fifa fanbase section during his time here tune into every game expecting Pogba to singlehandedly fix all our problems when we haven't even done the basics of what we knew was needed before we bought him. And he's STILL been one of our best performers in his time here.

That's why I cut him a little slack and is why I think we have made a disgraceful attempt at getting the most out of our investment in him. He's a specialist player, a cheery on the cake type for a functioning team, bought by clowns who had no idea how to use him.

I think you’ve misunderstood my take. I subscribe to your points. The £80mil captain who a vocal part of the Caf show far more support to than Pogba is Harry MUGuire.

 

[lex talionis]

The fact you’re plucking random figures out of your arse and posting them as fact is indeed mind boggling.

True, I was hazarding a guess as to how many MOTM-worthy performances Pogba has put in for us the last six seasons. 32 instead of 12 is a huge discrepancy, but I’d like to know more about those MOTM performances. Regardless of the outcome of a match, win, lose or draw, a United player always gets voted here on the caf MOTM. How many of those 32 MOTM awards Pogba got on the caf was actually deemed to be actually MOTM? That would take some research, but if someone did the research we’d probably learn it’s less than 32.

Being MOTM isn’t everything, but it’s something. Even if we took 32 MOTM performances as the best we can on a limited research budget over six seasons that’s 5 per season, which isn’t exactly what you’d expect of a 90m midfielder of Pogba’s immense class as repeatedly shown with France and Juve.

The question isn’t whether Pogba is a world class footballer. No one denies that. The question is why Pogba has not performed United over the last six years as he did for France and Juve. No serious observer has failed to notice the drop off in form in a United shirt. Your heralded 32 MOTM performances over six seasons actually makes that point, mate. We’ve been rather shit as a side for the last six seasons and yet even in a squad that’s been rather shit, by your own admission Pogba has been MOTM only 32 times. That’s an argument for the prosecution, not the defense.

Circumstances beyond his control explain a lot. José was a miserable fukk of a manager and Ole didn’t quite know what to do with Pogba, a brilliant but mercurial footballer. To wrap this up, what some of are questioning isn’t that he’s a brilliant footballer player, but why he has failed to live up to expectations during his time at Old Trafford.

 

[RUCK4444]

I think you’ve misunderstood my take. I subscribe to your points. The £80mil captain who a vocal part of the Caf show far more support to than Pogba is Harry MUGuire.

Ah I see your point now, apologies.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

First I definitely don't like grades in all sites including whoscored, so I don't actually give it any value in isolation but when it matches what match threads think we can take it into account.

Now I'm way too lazy to do it for more than one season or recheck it but in 17/18 in the league and according to Whoscored his mean was 7.53 and the median 7.5. There are 27 items in the list and a range of 2.9, from 6.2 to 9.1.

If I'm extremely bored at work tomorrow, I might look at some more seasons.

This season his average is 6.9 and his median is 6.5.

(From 9 PL and 4 CL games).

 

[Ali Dia]

I have to agree that Mata has been a really poor major signing and he takes much less flack than Pogba in general. If mino was Juans agent and he was piping up about leaving after every good game or two while the team suffered on the pitch I think the fans would have felt differently about him too. On the other hand Pogba cost twice as much and probably earns almost twice as much. The hype around Pogba coming back “home” after leaving under a cloud in the first place just created just a unique scenario that leads to the current situation.

I can understand both sides today. I feel like he’s mostly been poor and a constant sideshow but has also been amongst the best of a bad lot, when he’s been fit, which is another major issue with reinvesting in him. Too many issues to be totally comfortable investing those kinds of sums. Then again if Mata and Jones can get an extension then I’m sure we are working hard on keeping Pogba.

 

[Jeppers7]

I have to agree that Mata has been a really poor major signing and he takes much less flack than Pogba in general. If mino was Juans agent and he was piping up about leaving after every good game or two while the team suffered on the pitch I think the fans would have felt differently about him too. On the other hand Pogba cost twice as much and probably earns almost twice as much. The hype around Pogba coming back “home” after leaving under a cloud in the first place just created just a unique scenario that leads to the current situation.

I can understand both sides today. I feel like he’s mostly been poor and a constant sideshow but has also been amongst the best of a bad lot, when he’s been fit, which is another major issue with reinvesting in him. Too many issues to be totally comfortable investing those kinds of sums. Then again if Mata and Jones can get an extension then I’m sure we are working hard on keeping Pogba.

Fair post

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Could also post this in Martial or Bruno thread….so it applies to all our best performing players over the past five years.

This is the point really. Most of the on field criticism thrown at Pogba can be thrown at other players but then. the goalposts will change & it’ll be his agent [DvdB’s agent says hello].

He’s nowhere near as bad as the majority of his counterparts have been.

 

[Seij]

I can't believe that this is Mata's 9th season at the club. He's been largely shite and our fanbase doesn't talk about it. It's pretty unreal. How he got a new contract will always baffle me.

Our fanbase has always justified his renewals as "Good guy, good role model in the locker room. Who cares how much he's being paid since it's Glazers paying him?"

 

[Stacks]

True, I was hazarding a guess as to how many MOTM-worthy performances Pogba has put in for us the last six seasons. 32 instead of 12 is a huge discrepancy, but I’d like to know more about those MOTM performances. Regardless of the outcome of a match, win, lose or draw, a United player always gets voted here on the caf MOTM. How many of those 32 MOTM awards Pogba got on the caf was actually deemed to be actually MOTM? That would take some research, but if someone did the research we’d probably learn it’s less than 32.

Being MOTM isn’t everything, but it’s something. Even if we took 32 MOTM performances as the best we can on a limited research budget over six seasons that’s 5 per season, which isn’t exactly what you’d expect of a 90m midfielder of Pogba’s immense class as repeatedly shown with France and Juve.

The question isn’t whether Pogba is a world class footballer. No one denies that. The question is why Pogba has not performed United over the last six years as he did for France and Juve. No serious observer has failed to notice the drop off in form in a United shirt. Your heralded 32 MOTM performances over six seasons actually makes that point, mate. We’ve been rather shit as a side for the last six seasons and yet even in a squad that’s been rather shit, by your own admission Pogba has been MOTM only 32 times. That’s an argument for the prosecution, not the defense.

Circumstances beyond his control explain a lot. José was a miserable fukk of a manager and Ole didn’t quite know what to do with Pogba, a brilliant but mercurial footballer. To wrap this up, what some of are questioning isn’t that he’s a brilliant footballer player, but why he has failed to live up to expectations during his time at Old Trafford.

That's questionable sir. Over 40 odd games his France form is no doubt similar to Utd. He has not once earned; French player of the year, made an international team of tournament (not even world cup) and scores once every 8 games and assists once every 11 games for France. I have seen him play better for Utd and also for longer periods but what happens is people watch a 4-5 game tournament in which he may shine in 1 or 2 games but not drop any clangers and then we create this "France version of Pogba" which actually isn't that different. He is by nature an unpredictable player.

Juve Pogba may also be mythical. For Juve 178 apps, 34g + 51a = goal or assist every 2.4 appearances
United 219 apps, 38g, 51a = goal or assist every 2.46 appearances

At other teams he had better midfielders like Vidal, Kante, Pirlo, Marchisio, etc who can hide his flaws and inconsistencies.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Who really cares anymore? Has he been as bad as some make out, no. Has he been as good as others make out? no. Am I happy that he may be leaving purely so this endless debate can die? Oh hell yeah

 

[Stacks]

I have to agree that Mata has been a really poor major signing and he takes much less flack than Pogba in general. If mino was Juans agent and he was piping up about leaving after every good game or two while the team suffered on the pitch I think the fans would have felt differently about him too. On the other hand Pogba cost twice as much and probably earns almost twice as much. The hype around Pogba coming back “home” after leaving under a cloud in the first place just created just a unique scenario that leads to the current situation.

I can understand both sides today. I feel like he’s mostly been poor and a constant sideshow but has also been amongst the best of a bad lot, when he’s been fit, which is another major issue with reinvesting in him. Too many issues to be totally comfortable investing those kinds of sums. Then again if Mata and Jones can get an extension then I’m sure we are working hard on keeping Pogba.

I wanted Mata gone 3 years ago and it pissed me off he got a new contract. Always felt he stole a wage

 

[Jeppers7]

True, I was hazarding a guess as to how many MOTM-worthy performances Pogba has put in for us the last six seasons. 32 instead of 12 is a huge discrepancy, but I’d like to know more about those MOTM performances. Regardless of the outcome of a match, win, lose or draw, a United player always gets voted here on the caf MOTM. How many of those 32 MOTM awards Pogba got on the caf was actually deemed to be actually MOTM? That would take some research, but if someone did the research we’d probably learn it’s less than 32.

Being MOTM isn’t everything, but it’s something. Even if we took 32 MOTM performances as the best we can on a limited research budget over six seasons that’s 5 per season, which isn’t exactly what you’d expect of a 90m midfielder of Pogba’s immense class as repeatedly shown with France and Juve.

The question isn’t whether Pogba is a world class footballer. No one denies that. The question is why Pogba has not performed United over the last six years as he did for France and Juve. No serious observer has failed to notice the drop off in form in a United shirt. Your heralded 32 MOTM performances over six seasons actually makes that point, mate. We’ve been rather shit as a side for the last six seasons and yet even in a squad that’s been rather shit, by your own admission Pogba has been MOTM only 32 times. That’s an argument for the prosecution, not the defense.

Circumstances beyond his control explain a lot. José was a miserable fukk of a manager and Ole didn’t quite know what to do with Pogba, a brilliant but mercurial footballer. To wrap this up, what some of are questioning isn’t that he’s a brilliant footballer player, but why he has failed to live up to expectations during his time at Old Trafford.

It doesn’t change the fact that you plucked some random figure from your arse and stated it as fact.

Six seasons? I wasn’t aware that this season had finished and let’s not factor in games he hasn’t been available for and again just pluck ‘six seasons’ out of thin air. Then let’s pretend that football isn’t a team sport, where if your team are getting dominated and players around you aren’t playing well….that doesn’t impact on your own ability….this applies to all footballers.

It’s been shown that 32 MOTM performances in 200 games is a good ratio since it’s higher than all but one other player, the player mostly lauded as the saviour who isnt MOTM 83% of the games he plays in a poor team.

In addition, funny that you want to look at the games with a negative perspective, it’s what causes the negative regard that swamps Paul Pogba unfortunately, people can’t take any positive without looking for the negative. For any games he’s had where CAF has given him MOTM there will undoubtedly be other players in the argument, depending on what you’re looking for you may agree or disagree. There will be games, like when we’ve played City quite a few times, where the only player who has looked capable of playing at that level has been Pogba….his performance might have been a 6/7 where everyone else had been a 4/5 but yes it’s a team sport. On the flip side there are many more games where he wasn’t given MOTM but was second or third and actually in some peoples opinions he was MOTM….funny how you arent focussing on that regard. Because it’s Pogba it has to be a negative regard.

He hasn’t lived up to expectations but he’s been a hell of a lot better than you implied, in fact he’s probably had almost 12 motm performances or second, third this calendar year which is really the point….It doesn’t matter what he does the narrative was set way too long ago. He can have six months of largely good form wiped away the minute he has a bad game. Where other players can have 12 months of largely poor performances forgotten because they played great for a few months when they first signed but have been as inconsistent as anyone since.

 

[captaincantona]

He hasn’t lived up to expectations but he’s been a hell of a lot better than you implied, in fact he’s probably had almost 12 motm performances or second, third this calendar year which is really the point….It doesn’t matter what he does the narrative was set way too long ago. He can have six months of largely good form wiped away the minute he has a bad game. Where other players can have 12 months of largely poor performances forgotten because they played great for a few months when they first signed but have been as inconsistent as anyone since.

I wouldn’t agree with this paragraph at all. The Focus and criticism of Pogba is valid because of the profile he keeps and his mouthpiece agent and his public courting of other clubs and his well documented angling for a new, by all accounts significant pay rise/ contract to stay at Man Utd. No other Man Utd player does it to even approaching that level...so why would they get the same attention? Why does that type of behaviour get overlooked by his “fans” as a valid point which exacerbate s the frustration at his general average performances?

Lots seem to take criticisms of certain players as long term agendas. It’s crap...I will support players for a number of reasons...they are great players, they are not necessarily excellent but they give their all, they add value to the squad and don’t make trouble...they generally want to be a Utd player. I can tolerate people whose characters I don’t particularly like as long as the above applies in some way. In simple terms- the shit you get with Pogba isn’t worth his contributions on the pitch- for me.

Even the pro Pogba crowd in here recognise he has not lived up to expectations...so if that were it... I wouldn’t have a word to say. You win some you lose some. You’re point is that no one else in the squad gets treated the same...has anyone else in the squad done the following?

- Released an emoji and pogmoji app a few days after a fuking anonymous display against our fiercest rivals getting whipped 3-1. He should have been keeping the head down and working hard...he was doing anything but...
- Around the time it was confirmed he was offered to our second fiercest rivals Man City ( do you think thatwas entirely without his knowledge?) he dyes his hair blue- the colour of our said rivals. I don’t give a fuk about his hair but that shit starts headlines and drama that the club don’t need. Does anyone else do that shit?
- his agent routinely says he is wanted by all the best teams and he wants to leave and is not happy. Pogba says fuk all. Do other players agents do this even half as much as Pogba’s?
- his agent lays into our managers and Pogba on the bench means headlines...does this happen with any of our other players Half as much ?
- Pogba recovers outside of the club and generally gives the feel he doesn’t give a fuk- it’s a paycheck. This is quite simply not the feeling I get from lesser players who seem to really want to be at Utd.
- Pogba constantly talks on international duty about how he feels better playing for France and how it is a better atmosphere. Do other players do that?
- Pogba has had numerous players bought and moved position to try and “get the best out of him”. Has any other player at Utd had that same treatment???
-Pogba apparently believes he is worth €400k a week...what has he done exactly to warrant that and moreover with regard to you point...what other player in the squad is looking for that type of pay rise? You don’t know because other players don’t conduct their business the way Pogba and Raiola do...


I could go on...but I’ll stop there...his performances are no where NEAR the standard you would need them to be to accept that type of bullshit. And that’s why he gets shit when Mr nice guy and anonymous Juan Mata gets off lightly...because Pogba has fuked united over more than just on the field.

 

[Jeppers7]

I wouldn’t agree with this paragraph at all. The Focus and criticism of Pogba is valid because of the profile he keeps and his mouthpiece agent and his public courting of other clubs and his well documented angling for a new, by all accounts significant pay rise/ contract to stay at Man Utd. No other Man Utd player does it to even approaching that level...so why would they get the same attention? Why does that type of behaviour get overlooked by his “fans” as a valid point which exacerbate s the frustration at his general average performances?

Lots seem to take criticisms of certain players as long term agendas. It’s crap...I will support players for a number of reasons...they are great players, they are not necessarily excellent but they give their all, they add value to the squad and don’t make trouble...they generally want to be a Utd player. I can tolerate people whose characters I don’t particularly like as long as the above applies in some way. In simple terms- the shit you get with Pogba isn’t worth his contributions on the pitch- for me.

Even the pro Pogba crowd in here recognise he has not lived up to expectations...so if that were it... I wouldn’t have a word to say. You win some you lose some. You’re point is that no one else in the squad gets treated the same...has anyone else in the squad done the following?

- Released an emoji and pogmoji app a few days after a fuking anonymous display against our fiercest rivals getting whipped 3-1. He should have been keeping the head down and working hard...he was doing anything but...
- Around the time it was confirmed he was offered to our second fiercest rivals Man City ( do you think thatwas entirely without his knowledge?) he dyes his hair blue- the colour of our said rivals. I don’t give a fuk about his hair but that shit starts headlines and drama that the club don’t need. Does anyone else do that shit?
- his agent routinely says he is wanted by all the best teams and he wants to leave and is not happy. Pogba says fuk all. Do other players agents do this even half as much as Pogba’s?
- his agent lays into our managers and Pogba on the bench means headlines...does this happen with any of our other players Half as much ?
- Pogba recovers outside of the club and generally gives the feel he doesn’t give a fuk- it’s a paycheck. This is quite simply not the feeling I get from lesser players who seem to really want to be at Utd.
- Pogba constantly talks on international duty about how he feels better playing for France and how it is a better atmosphere. Do other players do that?
- Pogba has had numerous players bought and moved position to try and “get the best out of him”. Has any other player at Utd had that same treatment???
-Pogba apparently believes he is worth €400k a week...what has he done exactly to warrant that and moreover with regard to you point...what other player in the squad is looking for that type of pay rise? You don’t know because other players don’t conduct their business the way Pogba and Raiola do...


I could go on...but I’ll stop there...his performances are no where NEAR the standard you would need them to be to accept that type of bullshit. And that’s why he gets shit when Mr nice guy and anonymous Juan Mata gets off lightly...because Pogba has fuked united over more than just on the field.

Is this post irony?

 

[captaincantona]

Is this post irony?

No. It’s clearly highlighting the differences between Pogba and other players. Hence the different sentiment.

 

[Jeppers7]

No. It’s clearly highlighting the differences between Pogba and other players. Hence the different sentiment.

This isn’t a player sentiment thread.

It’s a player performance thread…..you highlighting some bizarre reasons that you dislike Pogba only confirms that you are being subjective in what should only be an objective analysis.

It’s ironic because it just proves the point that I’ve already made.

 

[Bebestation]

It's incredible how people back Pogba but smash Rashford.

Pure fifa fans.

 

[Jeppers7]

It's incredible how people back Pogba but smash Rashford.

Pure fifa fans.

Not sure who these people are but personally I’m a big fan of Rashford as a player, he’s had a bad time of it the last twelve months and I’m sure injuries are a lot to do with his performances. I hope he can overcome them and fulfill his potential.

 

[Real Name]

Mata and Jones absolutely shouldnt have stayed so long, as some other players.

Does that mean we should keep Pogba though?
On the contrary club needs to change the approach and let him go. Dont know if Pogba will fit in Ralf's places and in any case January is soon and he still hasnt decided. From the outside it looks like club is begging him to stay and that's not exactly a changed approach.

 

[gajender]

Mata and Jones absolutely shouldnt have stayed so long, as some other players.

Does that mean we should keep Pogba though?
On the contrary club needs to change the approach and let him go. Dont know if Pogba will fit in Ralf's places and in any case January is soon and he still hasnt decided. From the outside it looks like club is begging him to stay and that's not exactly a changed approach.

No it doesn't stop making stuff up all the noise coming from trusted United sources is we have made an offer quite a while back but it hasn't been accepted by Pogba but we haven't upped the offer so that doesn't exactly scream like begging , it's more like we have made our position clear and we would be fine with either decision by Pogba .

 

[Real Name]

No it doesn't stop making stuff up all the noise coming from trusted United sources is we have made an offer quite a while back but it hasn't been accepted by Pogba but we haven't upped the offer so that doesn't exactly scream like begging , it's more like we have made our position clear and we would be fine with either decision by Pogba .

That 's good then. If true.

 

[Marwood]

Rating a players time at a club can't just be based on MoTM performances. You've also got to look at their bottom level, consistency, fitness level.

Obviously Pogba's style is, when on form, the type to win MoTM awards. However we all know what his style leads to when he's off form. He can be amongst the worst on the pitch, which should never be happening with a players of his transfer fee and profile.

@Jeppers7 you don't have to keep pretending you're a fan of Bruno. You're clearly not. You frequently and randomly bring him into Pogba conversations, almost always in a negative tone. I'm guessing this is because he came in and gave us what Pogba wasn't.

 

[captaincantona]

This isn’t a player sentiment thread.

It’s a player performance thread…..you highlighting some bizarre reasons that you dislike Pogba only confirms that you are being subjective in what should only be an objective analysis.

It’s ironic because it just proves the point that I’ve already made.

So if our captain is arrested and is in the news and he then plays shite for a few weeks...we cannot consider that in his performances thread as being a reason why his performances were impacted?

When Jesse was making videosof himself acting the bollox or starting a clothing line the day of a match- that can’t be discussed as being a positive or a negative with regard to his poor performances on the field? ie. being distracted by off the field antics instead of knuckling down- ya know, exactly the type of thing that would be discussed by fans in the pub or pundits on tv?

When Mason was up to no good in Iceland and the media got their teeth out resulting in being dropped from the England squad?

When Icardis wife brings fuking drama with her everywhere...are PSG fans not entitled to say...decent player but not worth the hassle???

by your reasoning, this thread is only to discuss what goes on in the 90 odd minutes on a Saturday. I would contend that if players take part in behaviour outside of football that impacts their performance or impacts the moodof the club or how it’s treated in the media then that opens the player for analysis of his behaviour against his value to the club overall— simple pros and cons- if his performances are good... then nothing else matters. If they are not good then of course your scrutinise the rest as they are intrinsically linked.

Its not dislike if it’s fact. Everything I said happened, I didn’t make it up with a view to perverting the truth because I don’t like the guy. I am merely saying that he is not a good enough player for us to put up with that extra shite. You asked why he was treated and viewed differently To Juan Mata etc. It’s because they don’t engage in certain types of unprofessional behaviour that can be scrutinised...like scoring a world class goal in an international tournament and celebrating for a full 60 seconds or so with various dance moves and poses...celebrating his own genius...before his team eventually losing the game. It’s embarrassing and if he did that in a Utd shirt- would Jeppers Benin this thread saying- “no lads...don’t mention the choreographed dance routine after half time...only mention the good bits!”

 

[Jeppers7]

So if our captain is arrested and is in the news and he then plays shite for a few weeks...we cannot consider that in his performances thread as being a reason why his performances were impacted?

When Jesse was making videosof himself acting the bollox or starting a clothing line the day of a match- that can’t be discussed as being a positive or a negative with regard to his poor performances on the field?

When Mason was up to no good in Iceland and the media got their teeth out resulting in being dropped from the England squad?

When Icardis wife brings fuking drama with her everywhere...are PSG fans not entitled to say...decent player but not worth the hassle???

by your reasoning, this thread is only to discuss what goes on in the 90 odd minutes on a Saturday. I would contend that if players take part in behaviour outside of football that impacts their performance or impacts the moodof the club or how it’s treated in the media then that opens the player for analysis of his behaviour against his value to the club overall— simple pros and cons- if his performances are good... then nothing else matters. If they are not good then of course your scrutinise the rest as they are intrinsically linked.

Its not dislike if it’s fact. Everything I said happened, I didn’t make it up with a view to perverting the truth because I don’t like the guy. I am merely saying that he is not a good enough player for us to put up with that extra shite. You asked why he was treated
and viewed differently...I explained it.

Bingo!!

of course giving reasoning behind performance, with performance related issues like being arrested and having an impending court case, or returning from injury is relevant to that.

Giving reasons why you dislike a player is not relevant. I’m surprised that I have to explain this?

I didn’t ask why Pogba was viewed differently, I questioned why the poster I responded to initially hadn’t put the post he put in the Mata thread as it was far more relevant to Mata’s performance levels and Failure to live up to expectations on the pitch (performance) than Pogba’s. In fact it fit perfectly with Mata’s time and the fact he was a club record signing with huge expectations.

Of course I know the reason but you continually explaining with such vitriol once again only serves to highlight my point.....

People giving a subjective view on Pogba’s performances and honestly thinking that the emotion has no bearing on their judgement of performance are as deluded ans the initial poster who claimed Pogba has had no more than 12 good games in six seasons.

 

[Stacks]

Our fanbase has always justified his renewals as "Good guy, good role model in the locker room. Who cares how much he's being paid since it's Glazers paying him?"

I had debates with my old housemate about this. Competitive playing staff only please

 

[captaincantona]

Bingo!!

of course giving reasoning behind performance, with performance related issues like being arrested and having an impending court case, or returning from injury is relevant to that.

Giving reasons why you dislike a player is not relevant. I’m surprised that I have to explain this?

I didn’t ask why Pogba was viewed differently, I questioned why the poster I responded to initially hadn’t put the post he put in the Mata thread as it was far more relevant to Mata’s performance levels and Failure to live up to expectations on the pitch (performance) than Pogba’s. In fact it fit perfectly with Mata’s time and the fact he was a club record signing with huge expectations.

Of course I know the reason but you continually explaining with such vitriol once again only serves to highlight my point.....

People giving a subjective view on Pogba’s performances and honestly thinking that the emotion has no bearing on their judgement of performance are as deluded ans the initial poster who claimed Pogba has had no more than 12 good games in six seasons.

every player has a different role in the team and an expectation. You don’t want Lindelof to take control of a back four you just need him to play his part. You don’t want Fred to run a midfield...you want him to get the ball back...you want Pogba to dominate games, be a player that controls tempo and pulls strings...He rarely does it...regardless of his who scored rating or motm metric...so I think it’s rich for him to be agitating the club for a move every single window and letting his agent cause mischief etc. When he should be focused on turning in the types of performances for his employer that would allow him to adopt such a position. How you separate the two is beyond me.

 

[lex talionis]

It doesn’t change the fact that you plucked some random figure from your arse and stated it as fact.

Six seasons? I wasn’t aware that this season had finished and let’s not factor in games he hasn’t been available for and again just pluck ‘six seasons’ out of thin air. Then let’s pretend that football isn’t a team sport, where if your team are getting dominated and players around you aren’t playing well….that doesn’t impact on your own ability….this applies to all footballers.

It’s been shown that 32 MOTM performances in 200 games is a good ratio since it’s higher than all but one other player, the player mostly lauded as the saviour who isnt MOTM 83% of the games he plays in a poor team.

In addition, funny that you want to look at the games with a negative perspective, it’s what causes the negative regard that swamps Paul Pogba unfortunately, people can’t take any positive without looking for the negative. For any games he’s had where CAF has given him MOTM there will undoubtedly be other players in the argument, depending on what you’re looking for you may agree or disagree. There will be games, like when we’ve played City quite a few times, where the only player who has looked capable of playing at that level has been Pogba….his performance might have been a 6/7 where everyone else had been a 4/5 but yes it’s a team sport. On the flip side there are many more games where he wasn’t given MOTM but was second or third and actually in some peoples opinions he was MOTM….funny how you arent focussing on that regard. Because it’s Pogba it has to be a negative regard.

He hasn’t lived up to expectations but he’s been a hell of a lot better than you implied, in fact he’s probably had almost 12 motm performances or second, third this calendar year which is really the point….It doesn’t matter what he does the narrative was set way too long ago. He can have six months of largely good form wiped away the minute he has a bad game. Where other players can have 12 months of largely poor performances forgotten because they played great for a few months when they first signed but have been as inconsistent as anyone since.

What the feck???

“He hasn’t lived up to expectations but he’s been a hell of a lot better than you implied, in fact he’s probably had almost 12 motm performances or second, third this calendar year which is really the point….It doesn’t matter what he does the narrative was set way too long ago. He can have six months of largely good form wiped away the minute he has a bad game. Where other players can have 12 months of largely poor performances forgotten because they played great for a few months when they first signed but have been as inconsistent as anyone since.”

I was over the moon when he brought Pogba back but there is no fukking way anyone can deny that he’s consistently been far below even the most sober expectations. We’re not talking about a player like, say, AWB who came in with some hype but had nothing remotely close up the the proven class of Pogba.

Pogba has never shown “six months of good form” for United. Six months cumulatively in his five and a hand seasons yes, but I don’t think you meant that. And it’s not been just a “single bad game” that has supporters wondering when the Pogba we thought we were getting in 2016 is going to show up and produce four straight matches of the kind of form he produced for France and Juve on a regular basis.

In top gear Pogba walks into any side, club or country, on the planet, which couldn’t be said of any other United player before Ronaldo came home. But since this “calendar year” came up exactly how many outstanding performances has Pogba put in aside from Leeds in 2021? It wouldn’t take more than one hand to count them all.

 

[RedCurry]

I can't believe that this is Mata's 9th season at the club. He's been largely shite and our fanbase doesn't talk about it. It's pretty unreal. How he got a new contract will always baffle me.

Mata’s available when he’s called upon. Doesn’t go into hiding for months. His worst performances are far better than Pogba’s usual average performance for us. Mata’s lack of physicality is down to nature and his small size. Pogba’s lack of physicality is due to him being a luxury player in his own mind. Mata’s agent doesn’t come out every two months to let us know how undeserving we are of his client’s services. The basic formula to get fans on your side is to stand up and be counted when going gets tough and Pogba is usually in Dubai when we have needed him. Good riddance.

 

[Canagel]

It doesn’t change the fact that you plucked some random figure from your arse and stated it as fact.

Six seasons? I wasn’t aware that this season had finished and let’s not factor in games he hasn’t been available for and again just pluck ‘six seasons’ out of thin air. Then let’s pretend that football isn’t a team sport, where if your team are getting dominated and players around you aren’t playing well….that doesn’t impact on your own ability….this applies to all footballers.

It’s been shown that 32 MOTM performances in 200 games is a good ratio since it’s higher than all but one other player, the player mostly lauded as the saviour who isnt MOTM 83% of the games he plays in a poor team.

In addition, funny that you want to look at the games with a negative perspective, it’s what causes the negative regard that swamps Paul Pogba unfortunately, people can’t take any positive without looking for the negative. For any games he’s had where CAF has given him MOTM there will undoubtedly be other players in the argument, depending on what you’re looking for you may agree or disagree. There will be games, like when we’ve played City quite a few times, where the only player who has looked capable of playing at that level has been Pogba….his performance might have been a 6/7 where everyone else had been a 4/5 but yes it’s a team sport. On the flip side there are many more games where he wasn’t given MOTM but was second or third and actually in some peoples opinions he was MOTM….funny how you arent focussing on that regard. Because it’s Pogba it has to be a negative regard.

He hasn’t lived up to expectations but he’s been a hell of a lot better than you implied, in fact he’s probably had almost 12 motm performances or second, third this calendar year which is really the point….It doesn’t matter what he does the narrative was set way too long ago. He can have six months of largely good form wiped away the minute he has a bad game. Where other players can have 12 months of largely poor performances forgotten because they played great for a few months when they first signed but have been as inconsistent as anyone since.

They won't like it but this statement is facts upon facts.