[Roux]

To think he started the season so well, then went back to his usual joggy self, then got injured and now he doesn't even want to come back for training.

According to who?

 

[lifted]

Ah the usual hyperbole nonsense on here. The only player in our team who gets shit on for being injured.

Think you're forgetting Phil Jones...

 

[laughtersassassin]

Think you're forgetting Phil Jones...

Hardly comparable really

 

[lex talionis]

Do we have any kind of expected return date or are we waiting to hear from Raiola when Pogba will be fit?

 

[Silas]

Anyone know when he's back?

 

[Orton]

Pogba in the team creates chances. No Pogba means no creativity. No Pogba and no Bruno means we don’t have one player who is comfortable in possession in the final third. It’s actually ridiculous.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Anyone know when he's back?

Next month I think

 

[Silas]

Next month I think

Damn, that far away? Interested to see how Ragnick uses him. Him and Bruno as the AMs with Mason and one of Cavani or Ronaldo up top could be nice.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I bet we would be playing a hell of a lot better with Pogba in the team. I remember last year some of our good runs were because of him. Or maybe I'm remembering wrong.

 

[RooneyLegend]

We seriously need him at this point. Or atleast go sign some damn midfielders.

 

[Beachryan]

In theory he should be ideal for the left side of the 'middle 2' in this formation. Will be interesting.

 

[VanDeBank]

Where all are the deluded morons in this thread claiming Mou was right and "he's a virus"?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Where all are the deluded morons in this thread claiming Mou was right and "he's a virus"?

You think he's been a good influence on us then? You think him allowing his agent to run his mouth constantly, especially on the eve of a Manchester Derby and also a crucial MD6 in the CL away to Leipzig has been good for us?

He's been a terrible signing. Scored 4 PL goals in 2 and half seasons now. Bruno scored 3 against Leeds alone this season.

Why people still defend him I will never know.

 

[VanDeBank]

You think he's been a good influence on us then? You think him allowing his agent to run his mouth constantly, especially on the eve of a Manchester Derby and also a crucial MD6 in the CL away to Leipzig has been good for us?

Nice straw man. No, those things weren't any good, but us crumbling while he's not in the picture indicates he's nowhere near being the sole cause of our troubles.

He's been a terrible signing. Scored 4 PL goals in 2 and half seasons now. Bruno scored 3 against Leeds alone this season.

Terrible signing if you take his price tag into consideration. Still among our better players, given by his high percentage of MotM performances. He's played a lot of games deeper in midfield and Bruno is is a shadow striker. Pogba had 3 world class assists in that Leeds game, competing for MotM with Bruno.

Why people still defend him I will never know.

Because of your unrelenting hatred for him. He's not in the team, was halfway across the world for a long time and the place is still on fire. So all the hyperbolic shit in relationship to him just isn't true.

And this coming from someone that would've forced him out in the summer and considers him a luxury player.

 

[flameinthesun]

You think he's been a good influence on us then? You think him allowing his agent to run his mouth constantly, especially on the eve of a Manchester Derby and also a crucial MD6 in the CL away to Leipzig has been good for us?

He's been a terrible signing. Scored 4 PL goals in 2 and half seasons now. Bruno scored 3 against Leeds alone this season.

Why people still defend him I will never know.

Bit disingenuous using goals scored for a midfielder who has played in a 2 most of his time here and comparing his stats to someone who plays as a 10 and most times next to the striker. Its like comparing how many goals modric, kdb, de jong etc have compared to Bruno...

What are his overall stats like, goals and assists compared to games played since he arrived? and how does this compare to other midfielders who play in a similar position? The fact hes been top scorer for one of his seasons, has been the top assister for some seasons and already has what, 6 assists this season? I reckon you'd find it hard to point out another cm with his output from the same position.

I know a lot don't like him which is fair, but no need to rewrite history regarding his stats.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Nice straw man. No, those things weren't any good, but us crumbling while he's not in the picture indicates he's nowhere near being the sole cause of our troubles.



Terrible signing if you take his price tag into consideration. Still among our better players, given by his high percentage of MotM performances. He's played a lot of games deeper in midfield and Bruno is is a shadow striker. Pogba had 3 world class assists in that Leeds game, competing for MotM with Bruno.



Because of your unrelenting hatred for him. He's not in the team, was halfway across the world for a long time and the place is still on fire. So all the hyperbolic shit in relationship to him just isn't true.

And this coming from someone that would've forced him out in the summer and considers him a luxury player.

I don't hate him. Don't know the guy. And nobody was excited as I was when we signed him again. Just feel badly badly let down by him. He's got more ability than most of our squad put together and hasn't been any more consistent than some of the poorer ones. Whose fault is that? His and his alone.

Awful signing.

 

[VanDeBank]

I don't hate him. Don't know the guy. And nobody was excited as I was when we signed him again. Just feel badly badly let down by him. He's got more ability than most of our squad put together and hasn't been any more consistent than some of the poorer ones. Whose fault is that? His and his alone.

Awful signing.

Sure. But he's nowhere close to being the primary reason why we're shite.
I think the latest drama saga is evidence of that.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Sure. But he's nowhere close to being the primary reason why we're shite.
I think the latest drama saga is evidence of that.

He's not even in my top 3 reasons......but what I said is still true.

I expect so much more from Pogba than I do from Mctominay, Fred etc as I know he's actually got the ability. Whilst he has that ability he is missing a lot of other stuff about his game to make him a world class player. His attitude, drive and hunger are all way off what they need to be.

I'm not scapegoating him. The demise of this football club has been brought on by the owners and board. They are responsible.

 

[Marwood]

Sure. But he's nowhere close to being the primary reason why we're shite.
I think the latest drama saga is evidence of that.

You've suggested another poster is using a straw man argument but I'd like to see all these posts saying Pogba is the primary reason for our struggles. Can you produce them?

 

[Gordon Godot]

He's not even in my top 3 reasons......but what I said is still true.

I expect so much more from Pogba than I do from Mctominay, Fred etc as I know he's actually got the ability. Whilst he has that ability he is missing a lot of other stuff about his game to make him a world class player. His attitude, drive and hunger are all way off what they need to be.

I'm not scapegoating him. The demise of this football club has been brought on by the owners and board. They are responsible.

Pogba is not the source of the problem but a sympton. He has woefully failed to live upto the hypes, fee and wages. His odd great performance are far too rare to justify his wages, and far too often he just doesnt look interested. Another example of the ineptitude of Woodward, players seemingly bought for social media and status, rather than a clear analysis of how a player fits into the team. He is the most glaring example of our terribly balanced team. You cannot fit him and Bruno into the same team, but even befor we signed Bruno we did not have the midfield players to get the best out of Pogba.

 

[VanDeBank]

You've suggested another poster is using a straw man argument but I'd like to see all these posts saying Pogba is the primary reason for our struggles. Can you produce them?

The man responded to my initial post:

Where all are the deluded morons in this thread claiming Mou was right and "he's a virus"?

Apparently he felt the need to jump in to tell me how bad Pogba truly is. Virus sort of implies he's a key factor in our mess. 1+1 = 2.

And you only have to scroll through this thread and a dozen others to find people blaming Pogba for almost anything, including those parroting Mou's line he's a virus 3 years later. Don't tell me you've never seen those?

Here's one even blaming him (or "agent") for our current predicament.

For what it's worth yes I think there's a faction that brews trouble.

It could have been
1. Grudges from the old regime (Phelan / Fletcher)
2. Grudges and selfish destabilization act from (pogba) agent to justify throwing tantrums for exit
3. Certain players feeling threatened by Rangnick and creates these rumors to try to get him sacked before they're sacked. If Rangnick is sacked, the whole Maguire/Shaw/Martial etc could have been getting a new lease in the name of give them a clean slate under the new manager, and they survive to grab another 4 years paycheck.
4. A collective (3-4ish) influential players who's buddy with Ole now feeling gruntled with Rangnick
5. Rangnick is a sadomasochist who whips them during training
6. They're so subpar physically that Rangnic attempt to get them up to speed is seen as no. 5

 

[Sky1981]

The man responded to my initial post:


Apparently he felt the need to jump in to tell me how bad Pogba truly is. Virus sort of implies he's a key factor in our mess. 1+1 = 2.

And you only have to scroll through this thread and a dozen others to find people blaming Pogba for almost anything, including those parroting Mou's line he's a virus 3 years later. Don't tell me you've never seen those?

Here's one even blaming him (or "agent") for our current predicament.

You're defending Pogba agent? Tell me it isnt so

 

[Desert Eagle]

If you’re now simply asking my opinion on the player I will guess that you’ve accepted that you were wildly incorrect with your recollection in the first place, as that’s important. Pogba has been far better than you recall, my stats aren’t instantly going to change your recollection, so we must accept that the way you feel he has performed is inaccurate.

My opinion is that Pogba has very definitive world class aspects to his game, but too many weaknesses in his game, make upto be considered a world class player. A player capable of world class performances but whose flaws can be exposed, particularly when played in positions that leave him vulnerable. People talk like we’ve built a team around him, or attempted to. Why would anyone play Pogba in a double pivot next to players who weren’t high energy defensive beasts to cover for his flaws, if they were indeed building around Pogba? The truth is he’s been mostly asked to adapt to us, which is fine, but is largely responsible for his inconsistent performances.
The next point I’d make is that if you’re asking a player with Pogba’s skill set and deficiencies to play in a struggling team, with very little structure and inconsistent performance levels……you will get inconsistent performances guaranteed.

Where does this leave us? Predictably he hasn’t lived up to expectations given that we have been largely inconsistent and poorly set up as a team for five years, relying on individual brilliance, rather than cohesive consistent team performance. Anyone expecting Roy Keane, Stevie G type performances simply misunderstood the player he is, and that’s not his fault. I wonder what the view of Pogba would be, if he performed the same but looked more like Modric.

Does not living up to expectations, being underwhelming and just not being downright great mean that he hasn’t outperformed his compatriots….absolutely not as the stats show. He has produced higher quality performances on a regular basis than any of his teammates and been one of our better players every season he has played for us…..given he’s actually an icing on the cake player, my personal opinion is that that in itself is some form of achievement.

As I’ve said repeatedly, people’s reflections on Pogba are wildly inconsistent with what he’s actually produced, people can’t even remember the last twelve months and you constantly trying to move goalposts, manipulate stats, or bring into question whether he actually performed well, or if the team were actually battered and he was given a token award have proven to be way off the mark. But yes thanks for the research indeed.

I’m not interested in a back and forth with anyone who can’t recall anything like an accurate assessment as it’s not going to change anything, you’ve built up this alternate reality in any case. All of our high quality offensive players have been equally or more inconsistent and unless we improve as a team, the downward spiral of performances from all our attacking talents will not decline.

The point was, and remains….bumping a thread because you’ve plucked some random figure out of your arse and stated it as fact, then stating it as a mind blowing fact….is in itself mind blowing and has been proven to be totally inaccurate.

Good posts in this thread as always Jeepers but those three lines really stand out.

 

[VanDeBank]

You're defending Pogba agent? Tell me it isnt so

No I'm saying it's silly to blame Raiola for our problems under Rangnick, especially when the proposed mechanisms include "grudges" and "throwing tantrums". The dude is interested in cold hard cash and Pogba leaving on a free is the most likely scenario and in the agent's interests as well for the signing on fee. It's a dumb fecking idea.

Debunking a conspiracy theory isn't the same as defending him.

 

[Sky1981]

No I'm saying it's silly to blame Raiola for our problems under Rangnick, especially when the proposed mechanisms include "grudges" and "throwing tantrums". The dude is interested in cold hard cash and Pogba leaving on a free is the most likely scenario and in the agent's interests as well for the signing on fee. It's a dumb fecking idea.

Debunking a conspiracy theory isn't the same as defending him.

Dumb fecking idea.

Well... I'd like to know what you make out of this leak. Do go on.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is stupid not to either tie him down or sell him last summer. It shows the incompetency of the whole club. Pogba and his agent are clever as now Pogba is going to get a massive signing on fee too.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

It is stupid not to either tie him down or sell him last summer. It shows the incompetency of the whole club. Pogba and his agent are clever as now Pogba is going to get a massive signing on fee too.

I reckon he'd be lucky to get anywhere close to the wage he is currently on, considering his form and fitness over the past couple of years. Otherwise, he'd have found a club by now.

 

[VanDeBank]

Dumb fecking idea.

Well... I'd like to know what you make out of this leak. Do go on.

This is like asking someone on their ideas on the migrant crisis after having just debunked your claim George Soros didn't cause it.

You made some good suggestions, and some terrible ones like the Raiola one and "Rangnick is a sadomasochist who whips them during train".

My money's on disgruntled players and staff afraid of being shipped off or having to work harder, seeing an opportunity with a bloke that's just an interim. Far more likely than Raiola being evil for the sake of it. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Jeppers7]

Good posts in this thread as always Jeepers but those three lines really stand out.

Thanks! What also stands out to me, as always when Pogba is out for any period of time, is how none of this (he’s merely responsible for his own performances) is his fault.

A lot of posters will simply not be happy until he’s gone and then will once again talk about these mythical 9 poor performances out of 10.

 

[spiriticon]

He's been trying to leave for years. It's January and he can finally go on a free transfer and still no news.

Raiola is all mouth and no action.

 

[miked99]

For all the frustrations with his form and consistency, which are valid, the difference really does become noticable when he isn't available for a period of time.

Last season we were top of the league in January and he was in really good form and contributing a lot to the team (winner at Burnley, worldie winner at Fulham etc). He then got injured and we dropped like a stone. This season we were already playing badly before he got injured but my god, it's been a barren wasteland of creativity since then and even an off form Pogba would've given us more.

I've given up hoping he will ever be able to show his best for an entire season and he's no doubt leaving anyway, but we could really use him as an option in the meantime.

 

[Red the Bear]

I mean he clearly doesn't want to be over here and unless he is extremely low on ambition, he'll do better elsewhere. So why aren't we just offloading him for free right now, that way we at least lighten our wage burden.

 

[horsechoker]

He's been trying to leave for years. It's January and he can finally go on a free transfer and still no news.

Raiola is all mouth and no action.

Early days yet to be fair

 

[Red_toad]

I mean he clearly doesn't want to be over here and unless he is extremely low on ambition, he'll do better elsewhere. So why aren't we just offloading him for free right now, that way we at least lighten our wage burden.

We’d have to pay out his contract in full, so no savings

 

[Red the Bear]

We’d have to pay out his contract in full, so no savings

Even if he signs a new contract with whomever picks him up? Doesn't it rescind the previous one?

 

[Red_toad]

Even if he signs a new contract with whomever picks him up? Doesn't it rescind the previous one?

To free him means we’d need to void his contract. His agent would be a happy man n bleed United for all he can. It could technically be done but I’d doubt it with his representation and loyalty bonuses etc.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Even if he signs a new contract with whomever picks him up? Doesn't it rescind the previous one?

If Pogba agrees to it yes but he will never move in January, he will wait and see his options and see if he can get more money. I don't see RR using him though due to his contract status which could harm his WC if he doesn't play for 6 months

 

[Marwood]

The man responded to my initial post:


Apparently he felt the need to jump in to tell me how bad Pogba truly is. Virus sort of implies he's a key factor in our mess. 1+1 = 2.

And you only have to scroll through this thread and a dozen others to find people blaming Pogba for almost anything, including those parroting Mou's line he's a virus 3 years later. Don't tell me you've never seen those?

Here's one even blaming him (or "agent") for our current predicament.

I'm seeing criticsm of Pogba(like every other player gets here) but there's nothing there about Pogba being the primary cause of the club's problems. Nothing at all.

It's a straw man argument that happens here all the time. It's a bit much to throw that at another poster when you're doing it yourself. The poster himself said he blames the owners rather than Pogba for the mess we're in.

 

[Ali Dia]

I reckon he'd be lucky to get anywhere close to the wage he is currently on, considering his form and fitness over the past couple of years. Otherwise, he'd have found a club by now.

PSG or bust

Not denying he’d have been a valuable player over the last few games though. Especially in the rasford #10 role. I said it last season a lot, Pogba was miles better on the left. He was tracking back and flying into tackles. Wish we’d kept the team

Pogba Cavani James

for the EL final but Fred getting injured moved Pogba back to midfield where he had a standard midfield game. Rashford was always going to play even though he was horrible for months and didn’t look at all arsed. Pogba on the other hand looked very lively on the left

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Probably perform 9/10 or 10/10 when he comes back from injury playing under his new manager and then 2 months later drop his performance. It seems that has been Pogba's life at United under Mourinho and Ole. Showing glimpse of world class performance for 2 or 3 months per season and then shit show for the rest 6 months or the rest of the season. I hope it's not the case anymore under Rangnick and we can see the new Pogba who can actually prove us that he is what we actually need.