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2021-22 Performances


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5.2 Season Average Rating
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27
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1
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Your first response isn't fine simply because you started by being dismissive with the semantics part which is baffling since the poster in question clearly made the point that our midfield wouldn't be average if Pogba was that good. In that instance I don't even care about Pogba, replace his name with whoever you want. If we go back to that statement a few years ago without Casemiro the Modric-Kroos midfield was below average in La Liga does that tell you anything about the level of these players or does it tell you something about the complementarity of that midfield?
What has Real Madrid to do with this now? I agree with you, obviously any player on the world needs his team mates to create a team, the better players, profiles and plan work together, the bigger the output. I don't deny that but why does it matter right now? He was the best player for United yesterday? Alright, I can agree. He was the best midfielder yesterday. Sure, he was better than Bruno and McTom. But what does that matter? We can't compare him with players we think are shit as well. There is just no point finding out who the best midfielder at United is when all are evidently flawed. We have to compare to teams that right now challenge for titles.

Is it possible, that we stumble upon a plan and team mates who finally make it click? Yes, it is possible. But it is heavenstrikingly inefficient. Pogba is gone, he ran his contract down intentionally, he wants 400k per week for a new contract (even if it is just 300k, the same would apply). The players we have don't have him click so we need new ones. At least 2. In midfield alone. For France he has also Griezmann working hard for the team offensively, we got absolutely nobody of this ilk, add another player. Also France played often with 3 at the back or added a nominal CM to one of the flanks. You want to do this for United? He is what? 28 or 29? Physically he will start to decline soon. His injury record isn't great already.

I hate to see his time at United to go down as some sort of failure. In terms of titles for him. Because he as a player and talent deserves titles. But at United, we are at a different point in the cycle. We cannot afford such a special kind of player who only turns up half of the games.
 
What has Real Madrid to do with this now? I agree with you, obviously any player on the world needs his team mates to create a team, the better players, profiles and plan work together, the bigger the output. I don't deny that but why does it matter right now? He was the best player for United yesterday? Alright, I can agree. He was the best midfielder yesterday. Sure, he was better than Bruno and McTom. But what does that matter? We can't compare him with players we think are shit as well. There is just no point finding out who the best midfielder at United is when all are evidently flawed. We have to compare to teams that right now challenge for titles.

Is it possible, that we stumble upon a plan and team mates who finally make it click? Yes, it is possible. But it is heavenstrikingly inefficient. Pogba is gone, he ran his contract down intentionally, he wants 400k per week for a new contract (even if it is just 300k, the same would apply). The players we have don't have him click so we need new ones. At least 2. In midfield alone. For France he has also Griezmann working hard for the team offensively, we got absolutely nobody of this ilk, add another player. Also France played often with 3 at the back or added a nominal CM to one of the flanks. You want to do this for United? He is what? 28 or 29? Physically he will start to decline soon. His injury record isn't great already.

I hate to see his time at United to go down as some sort of failure. In terms of titles for him. Because he as a player and talent deserves titles. But at United, we are at a different point in the cycle. We cannot afford such a special kind of player who only turns up half of the games.

It's a simple example of logic, there is no reason to expect Pogba to affect a midfield differently to other world class players. It makes no sense to claim that Pogba level is determined by how average our midfield has been during the last 5 years, it's as nonsensical as making that claim for Kroos or Modric when they were paired without Valverde or Casemiro.
 
It's a simple example of logic, there is no reason to expect Pogba to affect a midfield differently to other world class players. It makes no sense to claim that Pogba level is determined by how average our midfield has been during the last 5 years, it's as nonsensical as making that claim for Kroos or Modric when they were paired without Valverde or Casemiro.
Ok. I can follow these thoughts but where do they lead to? For United? You are willing to give it another try meaning another contract?
 
Ok. I can follow these thoughts but where do they lead to? For United? You are willing to give it another try meaning another contract?

I made that point clear a long time ago. I didn't want Pogba back at United at least not for that price, I would have gladly sold him in 2019 and I don't like the idea of extending an injury prone player that is soon to be 29 years old at least not on a long contract. I also have no trust in United when it comes to build a team that is complementary because if we are being serious for one second, the problem that we have seen with Pogba applies to multiple players Maguire wasn't signed with the idea of pairing him with a player that complement him, our attackers weren't signed with that idea either.
 
I made that point clear a long time ago. I didn't want Pogba back at United at least not for that price, I would have gladly sold him in 2019 and I don't like the idea of extending an injury prone player that is soon to be 29 years old at least not on a long contract. I also have no trust in United when it comes to build a team that is complementary because if we are being serious for one second, the problem that we have seen with Pogba applies to multiple players Maguire wasn't signed with the idea of pairing him with a player that complement him, our attackers weren't signed with that idea either.
:D

Ok, then it seems like our standpoints align as far as I see it. Why are we arguing then? Wasn't that more or less what I said myself?
 
Nobody was happier than I was when we signed him for 90m. I just feel badly let down by him over 5 years.

Thought he did very well on the ball yesterday for 35 mins. Some delicious passes to Sancho and co. I wasn't happy with his work off the ball though. Mctominay was left on his own way too often. This is the issue. Pogba and Bruno can't both play in same team.

I don't care how you felt about something that happened 5 years ago.

You have an unhealthy obsession with him and it is embarrassing. This is coming from someone who thinks it is pointless having him as he has hardly played for the last 2 years. Your obsession is utterly cringeworthy.
 
:D

Ok, then it seems like our standpoints align as far as I see it. Why are we arguing then? Wasn't that more or less what I said myself?

Because you responded to a post that had nothing to do with my opinion on Pogba's contract situation and started it with a dismissive comment about semantics.
 
I don't care how you felt about something that happened 5 years ago.

You have an unhealthy obsession with him and it is embarrassing. This is coming from someone who thinks it is pointless having him as he has hardly played for the last 2 years. Your obsession is utterly cringeworthy.

Horses for courses. I happen to think the people who say keep him, give him 400k a week and build the team around him are cringe worthy.

I don't have an unhealthy obsession with him. I'm so sick of the circus he causes and his agent. You yourself have just said it's pointless having him.
 
Because you responded to a post that had nothing to do with my opinion on Pogba's contract situation and started it with a dismissive comment about semantics.
Well come on now, I said it wasn't intentionally. And your first response to carried the word BS, which is hardly any better, wouldn't you agree? Maybe this whole semantics idiom has an offensive layer onto it, that I wasn't aware of to this point. What I wanted to say was "lets not get into details like tracking back or no tracking in this or that game because it will only lead to discussions we had infinite times".

What do you think about employing him on the left as long as we have him here and he is fit?
 
He can't control the transfer fee but sadly the transfer fee always raises expectations.

My issue with Pogba has never been his ability. The ability he has is clear to see for all. It's the attitude and work rate I have questioned and I'm not the only one. Pundits galore have all said the same thing.

Pundits talk nonsense 99.9% of the time, if you listen to them you are most likely wrong. Pundits used to call him the best midfielder in the world, the most complete midfielder in the world prior to 2019, it was absolute nonsense at the time and many of us described the player he was which is the player we got. The amazing thing is that people that were clueless about a player they never watched, are now trying to spin it into a question of attitude instead of admitiing that they don't watch games.
 
Well come on now, I said it wasn't intentionally. And your first response to carried the word BS, which is hardly any better, wouldn't you agree? Maybe this whole semantics idiom has an offensive layer onto it, that I wasn't aware of to this point. What I wanted to say was "lets not get into details like tracking back or no tracking in this or that game because it will only lead to discussions we had infinite times".

What do you think about employing him on the left as long as we have him here and he is fit?

He has given us the best performances at the CM position why do you want to move him?
 
He has given us the best performances at the CM position why do you want to move him?
As I wrote above - I think the most recent best performances have been starting from the left and the only reason not to employ him there permanently has been Rashford. Who is beyond hopeless these days. We could still play McFred providing the base, could have Bruno with the freedom to join the attack and have Sancho on the right to create. Seems like a good idea to me.

Which performances do you refer to from the top of your head?
 
Pundits talk nonsense 99.9% of the time, if you listen to them you are most likely wrong. Pundits used to call him the best midfielder in the world, the most complete midfielder in the world prior to 2019, it was absolute nonsense at the time and many of us described the player he was which is the player we got. The amazing thing is that people that were clueless about a player they never watched, are now trying to spin it into a question of attitude instead of admitiing that they don't watch games.

But I don't think they are wrong. Far too many of them agree for it to be wrong.

Paul Pogba, for all his technical ability, hasn't set the world on fire at United. We've been struggling to control football games in almost his entire Utd career.
 
As I wrote above - I think the most recent best performances have been starting from the left and the only reason not to employ him there permanently has been Rashford. Who is beyond hopeless these days. We could still play McFred providing the base, could have Bruno with the freedom to join the attack and have Sancho on the right to create. Seems like a good idea to me.

Which performances do you refer to from the top of your head?

I struggle to see how McFred is good idea, it has been tried and it failed. Pogba has been better at CM than any member of McFred, so i don't see the point in reestablishing them. I would introduce Mejbri or anyone else before going back to that.
 
But I don't think they are wrong. Far too many of them agree for it to be wrong.

Paul Pogba, for all his technical ability, hasn't set the world on fire at United. We've been struggling to control football games in almost his entire Utd career.

A thousand person can tell you that the sun is cold, it won't make it true. Pogba has never been a game manager, why do you expect him to be difference between us controlling a game or not? By the way, it's something that I said before we sign him.
 
I struggle to see how McFred is good idea, it has been tried and it failed. Pogba has been better at CM than any member of McFred, so i don't see the point in reestablishing them. I would introduce Mejbri or anyone else before going back to that.
McFred provided a great base for Oles United side. Both are fit and complement each other well. Only negative point is that they are subpar in terms of ball progression. Which is the main benefit of having Pogba in the side. As long as Rashford doesn't really warrant his spot with performances, I think it would be a great idea to add Pogba to the side having him secured by McTom and Fred (or even Matic at the end of individual games). To be honest, I don't see anything that would hold me from that. Rashford is atrocious, Elanga is an option but he is young and unproven, Pogba has his weaknesses against the ball. While McFred have their issues not being able to bring the ball out very well. It would be a win win win situation.

I think, Mejbri would struggle in the PL at this point. I know he is known to get fouled but I would be scared for his health going against PL defenders. Would also put a lot of pressure on such a young player and even though this pressure wasn't particularly bad in recent times looking at Greenwood or Elanga, with the latter hasn't really established himself, we have to remind ourselves that this isn't the norm. Young players should be eased in.
 
Well that really would make for an interesting discussion wouldn't it? Just scroll back, there are 100 pages full of it. And I am sure there are even more threads covering this topic to a whole. I meant that Pogba was part of multiple midfields at United. And bar a few patches something was wrong all the time. Have a look at the other top teams around the world. Who is employing a player who is very often great wiht his passing and often great with his carries, but struggles to fullfill his defensive duties? His midfield partners are a problem here as well. I have not the slightest issue stating that, but Pogba is the one asking for a new 400k per week deal with us. To me, that sounds like a terrible deal - not just because he demands so much but because we have make sure he is surrounded by special players that finally "release" him.

I was on this quest as well. When he came here. And the year after. But not anymore.
I understand your point.

However please tell me one midfield partner that Pogba has had since his time here that has went on to excel at another club or for his country ?

We basically have a group of potentially 5-10 midfielders that have won nothing or not performed at a high level for club or country and one who has performed highly at other clubs and for his country. All I'm saying is Pogba is not the problem.

Whether he's worth 400k a week or not is another discussion but I refuse to believe that Pogba is the problem and we can not create a title winning side with him being part of a midfield 3.

You honestly think for what it's worth that Modric could come in and turn us into a title winning team. Or would we also need to surround him with 'special' players that can release him ?

I just find it baffling that the majority of our fans love Mctominay/Bruno and think we need a replacement for Pogba more than we need one for them. I'm not saying that you're one of these fans but it's just mind boggling.
 
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I understand your point.

However please tell me one midfield partner that Pogba has had since his time here that has went on to excel at another club or for his country ?
There isn't any (maybe Fred). But to me, that tells me more about our team and recruitment than it does about Pogba. He is a fine footballer, that is for sure. But the teams he has excelled in, are not too numerous either. And it wouldn't be wrong to say that both these teams would have been great teams without him as well as they were crowded with fine players. What is for sure though is, that Juve and France compensated Pogba one way or the other. I would have been happy to see us do that as well, we never did. Because we had and have so many issues.

We basically have a group of potentially 5-10 midfielders that have won nothing or not performed at a high level for club or country and one who has performed highly at other clubs and for his country. All I'm saying is Pogba is not the problem.
He isn't. But there are big indicators that he is some sort of luxury item these days. A player who can bring the spark to an already well functioning team. But he isn't a player who excels under pressure. Pressure like building a team around him or needing him to perform to a good level week in week out. Granted, his injuries were also a factor, but that just speaks as much for him as it does against him.

Whether he's worth 400k a week or not is another discussion but I refuse to believe that Pogba is the problem and we can not create a title winning side with him being part of a midfield 3.
I am sure we could. But a) he is the one player where a big decision is imminent which is probably a reason, why there is so much focus on his contributions now and b) for me (and seemingly many more) it seems like a very inefficient decision. The reason our midfields don't work aren't just the players in midfield. It is also the the missing support from the front players and issues on the flanks. I know there is a notion, that a player like Rice would enable us to play Bruno and Pogba next to each other - I am sure that this is not going to work. Because neither of them is really interested in defensive workrate. Sometimes they do the bare minimum but they aren't like Marchisio, Vidal, Matuidi or Rabiot. It won't be enough. We will start looking better against deep blocks but teams will start to have a go at us. Swarming the room behind.

You honestly think for what it's worth that Modric could come in and turn us into a title winning team. Or would we also need to surround him with 'special' players that can release him ?
He would for sure. I am not against the notion that we need more than one upgrade in midfield. But to me it is clear that there isn't just one player who will take care of defense on his own. It won't happen. Defense and Offense these days are team efforts. And while great teams are able to carry one or two great players, it asks a lot of the other players. And I don't think, apart from Fred there is one player who even has the capabilities workrate wise to do parts of the job of somebody else.

I just find it baffling that the majority of our fans love Mctominay/Bruno and think we need a replacement for Pogba more than we need one for them. I'm not saying that you're one of these fans but it's just mind boggling.
I understand that point as well. But to be honest, I've not been around too many posts indicating that per se. McTom is for many only a squad player. Look at his weekly salary, we would be mad to let him go. Bruno has this great period of good form in his CV, people won't turn too quickly on him, even if I find his performances problematic for over a year. Pogba has been here for a long time now. He came with big expectations and many feel let down. I am sure, the extent varies and some of it is down to wrong expectations and misorganisation of the club more than the player itself. But thats all just the road leading to the place we are right now. And now, the club that has been criticized for making bad decisions has to make a difficult decision again. We know our salary structure is fecked up, giving Pogba 400k will preserve that state. For that alone, it should be avoided at all costs. But even without this huge factor, we are looking at a seemingly injury prone soon 29 year old, one that we have scouted as good as it gets as he is in the club since 2016. So has he shown performance wise that he should be given a record salary? Do we think that we will get somebody who will do what he does for less?
 
There isn't any (maybe Fred). But to me, that tells me more about our team and recruitment than it does about Pogba. He is a fine footballer, that is for sure. But the teams he has excelled in, are not too numerous either. And it wouldn't be wrong to say that both these teams would have been great teams without him as well as they were crowded with fine players. What is for sure though is, that Juve and France compensated Pogba one way or the other. I would have been happy to see us do that as well, we never did. Because we had and have so many issues.


He isn't. But there are big indicators that he is some sort of luxury item these days. A player who can bring the spark to an already well functioning team. But he isn't a player who excels under pressure. Pressure like building a team around him or needing him to perform to a good level week in week out. Granted, his injuries were also a factor, but that just speaks as much for him as it does against him.


I am sure we could. But a) he is the one player where a big decision is imminent which is probably a reason, why there is so much focus on his contributions now and b) for me (and seemingly many more) it seems like a very inefficient decision. The reason our midfields don't work aren't just the players in midfield. It is also the the missing support from the front players and issues on the flanks. I know there is a notion, that a player like Rice would enable us to play Bruno and Pogba next to each other - I am sure that this is not going to work. Because neither of them is really interested in defensive workrate. Sometimes they do the bare minimum but they aren't like Marchisio, Vidal, Matuidi or Rabiot. It won't be enough. We will start looking better against deep blocks but teams will start to have a go at us. Swarming the room behind.


He would for sure. I am not against the notion that we need more than one upgrade in midfield. But to me it is clear that there isn't just one player who will take care of defense on his own. It won't happen. Defense and Offense these days are team efforts. And while great teams are able to carry one or two great players, it asks a lot of the other players. And I don't think, apart from Fred there is one player who even has the capabilities workrate wise to do parts of the job of somebody else.


I understand that point as well. But to be honest, I've not been around too many posts indicating that per se. McTom is for many only a squad player. Look at his weekly salary, we would be mad to let him go. Bruno has this great period of good form in his CV, people won't turn too quickly on him, even if I find his performances problematic for over a year. Pogba has been here for a long time now. He came with big expectations and many feel let down. I am sure, the extent varies and some of it is down to wrong expectations and misorganisation of the club more than the player itself. But thats all just the road leading to the place we are right now. And now, the club that has been criticized for making bad decisions has to make a difficult decision again. We know our salary structure is fecked up, giving Pogba 400k will preserve that state. For that alone, it should be avoided at all costs. But even without this huge factor, we are looking at a seemingly injury prone soon 29 year old, one that we have scouted as good as it gets as he is in the club since 2016. So has he shown performance wise that he should be given a record salary? Do we think that we will get somebody who will do what he does for less?
I agree with all of your points but this for me is my main concern. I don't trust our Recruitment team to get a good enough replacement for less and losing Pogba without an adequate replacement brings down the level especially technically of the whole team and that's something we're already struggling with, with Pogba. Pogba, for me anyway is our best passer of the ball, Bruno seems to get all the plaudits but Pogba doesn't attempt half of the stupidness that Bruno attempts. In terms of ball retention and playing forward balls into good attacking positions Pogba is our best player, it's why he's constantly played in the base of the midfield 3 because he's the only CM we have that has some sort of passing range.

My worry is Pogba will be replaced by Rice and we play a midfield 3 of Rice/Fred/Bruno or Rice/Mctominay/Bruno which imo isn't good enough to win the league or a major title. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see us being a serious threat to any serious trophy when 2 of our midfield 3 are Bruno and Mctominay and we're going to waste this summer replacing the only one that is probably good enough. :lol:

That for me is the problem, we're becoming like Arsenal under Wenger when every summer they were replacing players and were always 1-2 signings away from a proper challenge.

I refuse to believe that we'll sign a rb, 2 cms, a cf and a cb this season because in all honesty that's what we'll need.
We needed a cm even with Pogba, now we need 2. AWB and Dalot are nowhere near good enough, our current cfs are 34 and 37 and Maguire's form is worrying and if he carries on like this he needs to be replaced. I don't think we'll sign that many.
 
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I agree with all of your points but this for me is my main concern. I don't trust our Recruitment team to get a good enough replacement for less and losing Pogba without an adequate replacement brings down the level especially technically of the whole team and that's something we're already struggling with, with Pogba. Pogba, for me anyway is our best passer of the ball, Bruno seems to get all the plaudits but Pogba doesn't attempt half of the stupidness that Bruno attempts. In terms of ball retention and playing forward balls into good attacking positions Pogba is our best player, it's why he's constantly played in the base of the midfield 3 because he's the only CM we have that has some sort of passing range.

My worry is Pogba will be replaced by Rice and we play a midfield 3 of Rice/Fred/Bruno or Rice/Mctominay/Bruno which imo isn't good enough to win the league or a major title. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see us being a serious threat to any serious trophy when 2 of our midfield 3 are Bruno and Mctominay and we're going to waste this summer replacing the only one that is probably good enough. :lol:
We still need that DM though, and probably we need him more than we need Pogba all things considered (e.g. injuries). The wages Pogba would demand to stay with us (especially if we're not playing in CL next season) will be enough to buy another midfielder and pay his wages. So overall IMO makes no sense to give Pogba what he wants, break wage structure, and hope he'll consistently play on his top level without getting injured and out for 3 months every season at the age of 29.
 
We still need that DM though, and probably we need him more than we need Pogba all things considered (e.g. injuries). The wages Pogba would demand to stay with us (especially if we're not playing in CL next season) will be enough to buy another midfielder and pay his wages. So overall IMO makes no sense to give Pogba what he wants, break wage structure, and hope he'll consistently play on his top level without getting injured and out for 3 months every season at the age of 29.
I agree if that's the case.

However, as I mentioned I'm fairly sceptical that the club will sign a DM, adequately replace Pogba and sign starters in the other positions that need filling (mainly rb and cf).

More like we'll end up with a DM and a rb and again it goes back to my Arsenal under Wenger comment, since Fergie left we're always 2-3 pieces away from competing. It's all good and well thinking we'll get an adequate Pogba replacement straight away and a DM however, the club doesn't fill me with much confidence considering the last 5 years of recruitment.

I find it more likely we let Pogba go and end up with Zakaria on loan or something or a other huge downgrade. Similar to selling Lukaku and getting Ighalo on loan.

We still haven't adequately replaced Lukaku yet. :lol: :lol:
 
I agree if that's the case.

However, as I mentioned I'm fairly sceptical that the club will sign a DM, adequately replace Pogba and sign starters in the other positions that need filling (mainly rb and cf).

More like we'll end up with a DM and a rb and again it goes back to my Arsenal under Wenger comment, since Fergie left we're always 2-3 pieces away from competing. It's all good and well thinking we'll get an adequate Pogba replacement straight away and a DM however, the club doesn't fill me with much confidence considering the last 5 years of recruitment.

I find it more likely we let Pogba go and end up with Zakaria on loan or something or a other huge downgrade. Similar to selling Lukaku and getting Ighalo on loan.

We still haven't adequately replaced Lukaku yet. :lol: :lol:
Well I don't think it'll be that difficult to replace Pogba as he was never instrumental to this team we have. Like already mentioned, his top level is very high, but most of the time he's just meh with occasional brilliance and similar number of brainfarts. It's just what you get playing AM in midfield.
We will not compete for trophies next season, I'd rather build a team for the future than rely on Pogba but that's just my view on things.
 
I understand your point.

However please tell me one midfield partner that Pogba has had since his time here that has went on to excel at another club or for his country ?

We basically have a group of potentially 5-10 midfielders that have won nothing or not performed at a high level for club or country and one who has performed highly at other clubs and for his country. All I'm saying is Pogba is not the problem.

Whether he's worth 400k a week or not is another discussion but I refuse to believe that Pogba is the problem and we can not create a title winning side with him being part of a midfield 3.

You honestly think for what it's worth that Modric could come in and turn us into a title winning team. Or would we also need to surround him with 'special' players that can release him ?

I just find it baffling that the majority of our fans love Mctominay/Bruno and think we need a replacement for Pogba more than we need one for them. I'm not saying that you're one of these fans but it's just mind boggling.

I think Fred has done very well for Brazil at an international level in terms of midfield partners that have done well outside of united.

Against Southampton I did get the feeling that there was space around pogba for the opposition. When he would press it would leave a gap behind him due to him taking ages to press and then get back from not winning the ball. I guess mcts job is to cover him but mct just isnt dynamic in that cdm role. I think we should try Fred at the base with his job to clean up behind bruno and Pogba. We also need to get pogba and bruno on the same wave length so when one is attacking the other is a bit more conservative. Then in general just tighten up that midfield. Of course it isnt helped when our forward line spend the whole game just jogging back.
 
Another looked like he wanted to do a bit and then sort of disappeared performance from him.
 
He always seems so cumbersome, on and off the ball. And it's become even worse the past couple of years. Half a second late into a 50/50. Half a second late getting his head up and releasing the ball, especially after half an hour. Easily turned as he has little agility. All the skill in the world. But it looks like he is fighting his own body.
 
We have won just 5 games with him as a starter this year, and he's started 12(or 13?) this year. Leeds, Newcastle, Wolves, West Ham, and Villareal. Also all home games except West Ham.

Makes you think that he really isn't that much better than all of our player combined like many here would make you believe?
 
It's weird for me with Pogba. With his return we're much better on the ball, creating a lot more chances, and we just look on the money at the start of the game - shame we've not taken full advantage at any of those points.

Defensively though, particularly in the second half, him and Bruno just desert their positions, perhaps as the tank empties, instructions start to fade and instinct takes over. We just start to look incredibly soft at that point. Softer than we've ever done mind. At those points it's difficult to have any belief we're score a single goal. If anything, we look more like conceding
 
I agree with all of your points but this for me is my main concern. I don't trust our Recruitment team to get a good enough replacement for less and losing Pogba without an adequate replacement brings down the level especially technically of the whole team and that's something we're already struggling with, with Pogba. Pogba, for me anyway is our best passer of the ball, Bruno seems to get all the plaudits but Pogba doesn't attempt half of the stupidness that Bruno attempts. In terms of ball retention and playing forward balls into good attacking positions Pogba is our best player, it's why he's constantly played in the base of the midfield 3 because he's the only CM we have that has some sort of passing range.
Yeah totally get your point. I am also not the most optimistic looking at our recruitment team but I hope that is where most of RR's magic will start to shine. Personally, I hope we let Pogba go and stay away from Rice for the quoted prices (a player I attest great capabilities, but the price is too much for me). Losing his ball progression abilities will definitely hurt. But as he isn't the most consistent performer and he was injured quite often, I think, we can would still be better off when replacing him.

I totally get your point though. A club should try to avoid losing their best players. But this time it is different. The Pogba question had so many implication about how we should play and about how we can play, us not making a decision to sell him and Pog not comitting himself, it is a whole chapter of squad management "what not to do"s. But it is what it is, only way to deal with sunken loss syndrome is by accepting and moving on.

I think Fred has done very well for Brazil at an international level in terms of midfield partners that have done well outside of united.

Against Southampton I did get the feeling that there was space around pogba for the opposition. When he would press it would leave a gap behind him due to him taking ages to press and then get back from not winning the ball. I guess mcts job is to cover him but mct just isnt dynamic in that cdm role. I think we should try Fred at the base with his job to clean up behind bruno and Pogba. We also need to get pogba and bruno on the same wave length so when one is attacking the other is a bit more conservative. Then in general just tighten up that midfield. Of course it isnt helped when our forward line spend the whole game just jogging back.
Issue with that is that Fred isn't great in positioning himself as well. Plus his instincts drag him to the ball. He is a chaos player who thrives when organisation is broken. Don't think, he has it in him to anchor a midfield. As he isn't the biggest strongest and best tackler or intercepter, I think we wouldn't get the best out of him. The way we play right now, with this supposed controlled style, it is tricky to integrate Fred. Which is a shame.

It's weird for me with Pogba. With his return we're much better on the ball, creating a lot more chances, and we just look on the money at the start of the game - shame we've not taken full advantage at any of those points.

Defensively though, particularly in the second half, him and Bruno just desert their positions, perhaps as the tank empties, instructions start to fade and instinct takes over. We just start to look incredibly soft at that point. Softer than we've ever done mind. At those points it's difficult to have any belief we're score a single goal. If anything, we look more like conceding
That is certainly true even though I think, there is huge potential to improve. A match against Southhampton would have been a banger with Ole as well, back then we liked playing against teams who left rooms. I don't think, we managed to create a lot against So'ton, playing a ball in behind a high line isn't the same as carving out chances.
Granted - the trend is undeniably positive but we haven't turned the tide at all. The last matches were against teams we are more than expected to dominate. And for now, RR's control approach isn't particularly robust in defence nor in attack. In that regard, it is a shame we lost the young attacker. I considered him to be the only one close to being in form before he left.
 
We have won just 5 games with him as a starter this year, and he's started 12(or 13?) this year. Leeds, Newcastle, Wolves, West Ham, and Villareal. Also all home games except West Ham.

Makes you think that he really isn't that much better than all of our player combined like many here would make you believe?
This is where we enter the territory of being harsh. No one should have their period of good form smudged by the performance of others. It's not on him the frontline have bottled their opportunities because right now that's the biggest reason we're dropping points. Right now our attackers pretty much nullify the point of having a creative CM and it's totally their faults. Bruno, Rashford, Ronaldo and others should be enjoying an uptick in production from our improved play but they have played with zero composure in front of goal. Ralf should probably tell them to try placing a shot every now and then.
 
It's weird for me with Pogba. With his return we're much better on the ball, creating a lot more chances, and we just look on the money at the start of the game - shame we've not taken full advantage at any of those points.

Defensively though, particularly in the second half, him and Bruno just desert their positions, perhaps as the tank empties, instructions start to fade and instinct takes over. We just start to look incredibly soft at that point. Softer than we've ever done mind. At those points it's difficult to have any belief we're score a single goal. If anything, we look more like conceding
That is not a fair criticism on Pogba. The past 3 games, his effort is top notch. He just lack awareness to pick Boro goal scorer. Else he tried his hardest to track back, and defend after pressing up the pitch.

It has more to do with our team being unbalanced with 4 attacker not getting back to support. And McTominay lack so much to fulfill the defensive midfielder role.
 
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Same people talking about the circus Pogba brings are the clowns that create one in every threads he’s mentioned in. He’s leaving soon, move on. We’ve the mighty McFred to look forward to for years to come.
 
Only thing I know, we will be forever one-dimensional mid-table team if we rely on McFred as our midfield pair.
 
That is not a fair criticism on Pogba. The past 3 games, his effort is top notch. He just lack awareness to pick Boro goal scorer. Else he tried his hardest to track back, and defend after pressing up the pitch.

It has more to do with our team being unbalanced with 4 attacker not getting back to support. And McTominay lack so much to fulfill the defensive midfielder role.
I'm not referring to effort or the lack thereof at all. Both Pogba and Bruno start to play like they have free roles, going higher and wider up the pitch searching for the ball leaving McTominay there alone.

That said, his effort has been better, but I wouldn't say defensive effort is anything like top notch in the second halves at all. Teams pick and choose when they press, but you don't get to pick and choose when you need to sprint back into position or track your runner. With our boys (Pogba included) this seems to be the case though.
 
He will perform at his very best to put himself as a candidate to replace Modric in Real Madrid.
 
Going from Fred and McTominay to Pogba is like when you change the YouTube video from 240p to 720p
 
Great cameo appearance, bright and inventive. Probably the right call to start him on the bench, hasn't looked to have 90 mins in him in his comeback as yet and 2 games in 3 days was probably too much.
 
He outdid everything Fred did in 70 minutes with his second touch by almost putting Bruno through with a majestic through ball
 
Losing him will be a big problem despite his injuries.

Think about it. Right now he is our only midfield 2 player of acceptable quality.

It's going to cost us about 60+ million to replace him with a player who is probably worse but albeit hopefully is available more and not injury prone.

That leave us with a Midfield that at best is as good as the one we have. And that Midfield is shite.

So if we want it improve our Midfield we are talking about 120+ million.

We will never do that. We will be stuck with McFred playing every week again.
 
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