You got it. I’d use the phrase can’t be arsed rather than inconsistent. I’m guessing he can’t get away with not being arsed when playing for France.
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No you didn’t attack me. I thought you were one of those posters who endlessly makes excuses for ‘player z’ there are numerous on every thread. I came across a tad harsh, I agree.
The disappointment is that we haven't won the league yet, and every player is viewed through that lens.
If Pogba had the season he just had and we managed to win the title, I'm sure the view of his season would be quite different from what it is now. Same goes for a lot of our players, not just Pogba.
Pogba has done exactly what I expected him to do and what many people expected when you look at his transfer thread. What I have seen from day one is people overrating him and judge him based on a player that he wasn't. Pogba isn't better for France, he wasn't better for Juventus, he wasn't consistent then and is a bit more consistent today while not being a model of consistency.
The problem has always been that a lot of people barely watched him play and decided that he was the best midfielder in the world or for some the most complete midfielder in the world. So some fans were definitely wrong, they were wrong then and are wrong now when they insist on overrating his abilities/potential.
Not being arsed is a myth and whenever he wasn't playing well, he never got away with it at Utd either. Ole never hesitated to bench him
Was very good yesterday. He wasn't great against Hungary but I'd say he's been France's best player during the tournament so far.
It's been a long and tough battle explaining to people that. The record fee created an unrealistic expectation
100.
I think the source of the problem is some fans never watched him at Juve. Their expectations were completely unrealistic from the onset. Unfortunately. A lot of pundits are in the same boat. Other barely even watched the player (Lampard's assessment of his game was a joke). Players don't produce consistent performances in a vacuum.
Pogba is a better player than the one that arrived. Of that, I have no doubt. His last two seasons have been his best in a United shirt. I don't think that's a coincidence as in that time, the team has gradually settled.
I keep seeing posters hoping we sell but no one has come up with a player we can buy, they think will do a better job.
The club needs to do everything possible to get him to renew.
Pogba is a better player than the one that arrived. Of that, I have no doubt. His last two seasons have been his best in a United shirt. I don't think that's a coincidence as in that time, the team has gradually settled.
I keep seeing posters hoping we sell but no one has come up with a player we can buy, they think will do a better job.
The club needs to do everything possible to get him to renew.
It started before the transfer, people didn't make up the most complete midfielder in the world idea, it comes from certain pundits and has never made any sense.
In order to press the way you want, Portugal would have had to employ a full pitch press which would basically be suicide with the combination of their slow defenders, Pogba's passing, and Mbappe's speed. Pressing from around the halfway line was the correct decision.
The reason why it seems like Portugal weren't applying much pressure was because of the buildup play of France. If Pogba, Tolisso, Griezmann, Benzema, Kante, and Varane are all involved in the buildup playing triangles around the few players who could press higher, then of course the sensible decision would be to stand off and save energy and pressure for the moments when the ball progressed up the pitch.
Contrast France's quality of buildup to that of our infamous game vs Southampton in 19/20 where it seemed like Pogba was playing by himself in midfield with Bruno high up and Matic at CB, and you can see the difference in the 2 setups. The more advanced our buildup play is, the less opponents will be inclined to waste energy pressing us high as they know it won't work. City is a great example of this.
The more I watch the more I’m convinced he’s a giant, French version of Pirlo that carries the ball better. Put the right midfield around him and he can run the show for your team. Expose him with the wrong set up and he becomes much less effective
Allowing Pogba to repeatedly making those passes in their backroom with Mbappa running behind them, turned out not to be the correct decision.
96/99 passes completed without most of them being side or back passes
the one time i remember pogba being pressed he skipped past sanches, so maybe they were scared of that.
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Fantastic.
Brilliant footballer
Class from a class player. Only leads to more frustration when he has an off day for us.
I hope Ole can find the perfect player to partner him so the game changer Pogba can shine
I hope Ole can find the perfect player to partner him so the game changer Pogba can shine
There were times last season where some people thought we don't even need a replacement for Pogba
They said we could just make do with whatever we've got.I agree with some of the people who say that it's no longer about Pogba's performance anymore. It's personal.
You can't seriously believe that Pogba has met expectations at United. That simply isn't true. He hasn't been terrible but neither has he been particularly excellent for us. Without getting into what he is and what he isn't, the fact is he is by far one of the most talented and gifted players in world football. It was obvious watching him in the academy and as a 19yo walking into Juve's midfield. With his talent and what he had already achieved for Juve and France at 23 he was expected to come here and put his name alongside the likes of Keane, Vieira, Scholes, Gerrard, Yaya and Lampard as the dominant midfielders to have played in the PL. He certainly has the talent to be there but has come nowhere close to their level of play or influence for their teams. Pogba has been no better than Wijnaldum for Liverpool IMO.
He has failed to meet expectations but has performed well enough if you remove the lofty expectation. The reason why there is still so much discussion about Pogba is because we know he's capable of much more and that has been the problem ever since he joined. His talent dictates he should be the best CM in the world and he's never come close to that on a consistent basis IMO.
Very well put. People just over exaggerate his performances for france and over criticize his performance for United. He has quite games for us and has had quite games for france as well. The big difference is at france he is surrounded by top top players so all the attention is not solely on him but at United him and Bruno are the only real top players. So more pressure on him to deliver every game.
Why? What exactly did he say that was so off the mark?
I know pogba's defenders will blame the Manchester United ex players managers fans for the pressure he gets here or the lack of love but I feel his agent has played a huge role in his extra scrutiny. The way his agent always bad mouths the club and talks about Pogba moving has made the matter worse for both him and the club. I don't blame some of the United fans and the likes of Neville and Scholes not giving Pogba the benefit of doubt. Pogba has to understand his agent has caused a lot of problems.
If he wants to sign an extension then great but if not then what should we do? Beg him to stay or let him walk on free next year? I mean ultimately it all depends on his decision.
The thing is France play beautiful intricate football when their on the ball. They also play in slower tempo international scene. Pogba wouldn't and hasn't had the space and time to play like that for United. For him, it may be for the best to move back to Italy or even to PSG. For us, it would be a mistake to think his form for France would translate to United. Which is not to say that he's not been good for United, but the challenges the league presents to him specifically mean his impact is nowhere near as large or consistent as it could be elsewhere. Make no mistake, its not just him. I genuinely believe players like Pirlo would also have struggled in England. Which is not to say the Premier League has more quality, just that in order to play consistently well, a player has to be able to handle the pace and physicality of the league, particularly in central areas ( midfield or defence). The same can be said the other way round, when the pace slows down in other leagues, a player has to be able to produce more as a ball player in those midfield and defensive zones. Defensively, they have to be more positionally aware than they need to be in England.
I vaguely remember van gaal talking about him and calling him that or something similar. His dream signing for the number 6 maybe it was. I think that was the hope for him at one point. Clearly wrong in hindsight but i dont think it was crazy to think it then
It's nice to hear we are looking to tie him down to a new contract, he's one of our best players and we need him here, if he commits to this new improved contract who's to know if he's not going to be motivated and willing to play his best football for the next 3-4 seasons as to win the UCL and the Leauge with us, I'm sure he's looking at other clubs and thinking United are looking likely to challenge sooner than must; with all the efforts we are putting in to bring in XYZ players if rumours are to be believe, i personally hope he stays we are better with him than not.
Brilliant performance. Shame how players don't get same recognition if their team don't win major trophies.
That's not true for you but it is for me, you overrated him and I didn't. I said at the time people were overrating him and that they were mixing their fantasy of a player with the actual player. I had hope that he could get close to a Vieira but I never expected it, you can't really expect something like that in my opinion. Potential isn't an expectation but a fantasy, it just means that you wouldn't be surprised if a player reached that level it doesn't mean that he definitely will.
I missed the game but damn those two passes Benzema and the long range shot were stunning.
It's such a conundrum with Pogba. I prefer more pace and end product on the right wing. And he doesn't suit a midfield two whereas Bruno doesn't suit a midfield three or playing alongside somone as attacking Pogba (barring easy games maybe).
By the way, I noticed an interesting pattern. The people that were called haters in his transfer thread and disagreed with the idea that he was or would be the best midfielder in the world are among the people defending him today.
But I think it was fair to expect the 28 year old Pogba to be pretty much complete based on the 23 year old version.
You must have expected him to progress from the player we signed right?
He has progressed, his defensive awareness is better today and he is also better at picking his moments with the ball. And no I wouldn't expect him to be complete based on the 23 years old version, the 23 years old version was not complete at all and while I hoped that he could somehow be a complete midfielder, I didn't expect it because it's fairly rare for players to reinvent themselves, it happens but we need to keep in mind that out of hundreds of top league players only a few drastically change their game or their understanding of the game.
Also it's probably worth making it clear, for me expectation is what I believe will happen while hope is what I want to see happen. This distinction is probably a cause of the divide between my viewpoint and others.
If you follow the timeline of agent comments and negative sentiment, you will see that the latter began way before the former in his time here. When the agent comments later on arrived, they were clung too in order to rationalise what was likely partially irrational. Agents have always; and will continue to talk shit about player’s futures, but never have I seen it apparently offend everyone as much as this situation.
I don’t think you can discount the fact that he had already established how little love be had for us when he left United and dismissed Sir Alex’s judgment. It was the right thing for this career but it was a selfish move, and established his priorities. So when he came back to us he already had very little good will, he had to prove he was worth us making all that effort to bring him back.
That’s very different to most players we buy. For many of them it’s the pinnacle of their career and they’re delighted to have such an opportunity. For those who believe in the romance of sport, they could really believe that player x loved the club. That fantasy can’t really exist for Pogba. And so everything layered on top of that; questionable previous choices and a sceptical or even betrayed fan base.
Pogba's potential was to be one of the top 3 midfielders in the world on a regular base, possible Ballon d'Or candidate and much more deciding player in the final 3rd based on his Juventus spell, especially when you know that midfielders mature and grow later in their game. He was not being close to that, actually he didn't come close to being named United POTY once which is astonishing based on his potential at the time when he was bought. Potential is not a fantasy btw as been said, it is based on players ability or objective parameters which you see and compare with other players at such a young age. There were mitigating factors in terms of us being collectively shit in his time here, but all together and at this point in time it is leaning for "disappointing" mark if this is the end of the road for him here despite flashes of brilliance now and then.
And that is fine, most people don't fulfil their potential and expectations of that magnitude (more so if you don't allow the proper circumstances for it to happen).
But, damn, to sit here and turn the narrative into oh well, fool is on us for thinking he is something else once we were buying him is mind boggling. Yeah, he is still frustrating like he was in Juventus looking for a certain period like he can dominate any team in the world and the next time like he is uncapable of a simple 10 yard pass. That shouldn't be the case with a player 5 years later into his career.
And that is fine, most people don't fulfil their potential and expectations of that magnitude (more so if you don't allow the proper circumstances for it to happen).
But, damn, to sit here and turn the narrative into oh well, fool is on us for thinking he is something else once we were buying him is mind boggling. Yeah, he is still frustrating like he was in Juventus looking for a certain period like he can dominate any team in the world and the next time like he is uncapable of a simple 10 yard pass. That shouldn't be the case with a player 5 years later into his career.
Perhaps.
Although I disagree with the use of ‘how little love he had for us’ being presented as ‘fact’. It has indeed been a running suspicion that Pogba apparently doesn’t care about United, but I doubt it’s true personally. I think fans have always openly spoken as if he seemingly loves Real Madrid more than he loves United, for example, and that is based on little to nothing other than it making sense to some that he probably wants to go to Real. I think he loves United a lot, if not for logic more than anything else. He’s spent most of his adulthood here, has lifetime friends etc.
But I do agree that his previous departure is likely to have left some sort of imprint. Stands to reason. Perhaps that’s why many fans haven’t warmed to him. Being on this forum, I’d say he is almost viewed the way I’d expect a Real Madrid player on loan to Manchester United to be viewed, than a United player, let alone one who actually came through our academy.
The number one issue though, to me, is that the team simply hasn’t been successful. I think the exact same Pogba is viewed massively differently if our couple of second place finishes were actually first, for example. Even the season that has just finished is getting re-written to have been worse and worse than it was being analysed in real time, and despite a number of good MOTM performances for us just this season, a narrative has already developed as to him playing well for France but not United. I think the main difference between the two is that France is the best team and United isn’t. Not in the sense that ‘he has Kante and Mbappé with France’, but simply the fact that the players are all generally speaking, viewed as a success first and foremost, whereas at United - we are failing. Like, I don’t think Pogba at the World Cup was that special. If France went out in the quarter finals of that WC, it would have been said that he didn’t do enough IMO. Because a failing team with the talent of Paul Pogba leads to the question as to why he didn’t ‘drive his team to victory’, with some sort of montage of all of the very best bits of Yaya, KDB, Keane etc seen as the standard. Pogba’s contribution for France isn’t questioned because he’s doing his bit and they are winning.
I didn't even want us to sign him when we were linked. I wanted Pjanic.
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