[romufc]

I don't need coaching badges, I have eyes.

And just so you know, Kante plays the deepest midfielder that covers the defense for France.

What I meant is that he needs a positionally aware midfielder next to him that can cover when he goes forward, not that he must play at number 10. In our team, he's the player that must cover for others.

So eyes are better than coaching badges and managers like Jose who have won titles around Europe?

They play with a 2 in Midfield just like United do. He plays with a better midfielder next to him.

Kante is not a holding mid either anymore, if you watch Chelsea, he does not play that position. Jorginho plays deep and Kante plays similar to McT the difference is Kante is a WC player and McT isnt.

I don't get where this notion comes from when Pogba has the most interceptions and recoveries when he plays anyway?

 

[MikeKing]

What a terrible start to the season for him. Only 6 games played, about 2 good performances then out injured. He is a weird player, not so young anymore and I doubt he'll ever make it here after all. He might be a fancy player for a team that has everything and just needs to blend in creativity from him in moments but I don't see him ever carry a team to anything of note he is certainly not a player that will help us get out of this mess, to begin with.

 

[kouroux]

What a terrible start to the season for him. Only 6 games played, about 2 good performances then out injured. He is a weird player, not so young anymore and I doubt he'll ever make it here after all. He might be a fancy player for a team that has everything and just needs to blend in creativity from him in moments but I don't see him ever carry a team to anything of note he is certainly not a player that will help us get out of this mess, to begin with.

There aren't many players in this history of the game, who are capable of doing that anyway.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Nothing new here. He misses the big games every season.

Thank God he was fit for Rochdale though...

 

[Adam-Utd]

What a terrible start to the season for him. Only 6 games played, about 2 good performances then out injured. He is a weird player, not so young anymore and I doubt he'll ever make it here after all. He might be a fancy player for a team that has everything and just needs to blend in creativity from him in moments but I don't see him ever carry a team to anything of note he is certainly not a player that will help us get out of this mess, to begin with.

what gives you the impression it's up to him to carry this team?

What players carry any teams by themselves? No wonder you have odd expectations.

 

[MikeKing]

what gives you the impression it's up to him to carry this team?
What players carry any teams by themselves? No wonder you have odd expectations.

Top players like Modric, Busquets, Silva etc carries their team. Not on their own no, but they got that stability and responsibility to help carry their team to a title. Ambitious, but aware that the road is part of the destination. I read Pogba as more pretentious, maybe not willing to grind out and learn the parts of his game that are necessary to archive that stability, yet you get the sense he sees himself a winner - deserving and just waiting on the big mystical reward that waits for him. He'll change clubs for sure, but I don't think he'll "carry" his team game by game to any important title. He has proved nothing the last 3 or so years, I highly doubt he can just 'turn it on' once he feels a club is good enough for him. Even if the club can carry him to a title, he'll always have people who don't see him as a top class player due to this. If he doesn't improve that is, but I think our lowered standards give him a lot of leeway and that he would get a lot more critique if he played like he does for us for other top clubs. Spanish media would rip him to shreds if he played for Madrid. For the sort of money he'd cost, he would be considered a flop by now over there for sure.

There aren't many players in this history of the game, who are capable of doing that anyway.

Read above.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Top players like Modric, Busquets, Silva etc carries their team. Not on their own no, but they got that stability and responsibility to help carry their team to a title. Ambitious, but aware that the road is part of the destination. I read Pogba as more pretentious, maybe not willing to grind out and learn the parts of his game that are necessary to archive that stability, yet you get the sense he sees himself a winner - deserving and just waiting on the big mystical reward that waits for him. He'll change clubs for sure, but I don't think he'll "carry" his team game by game to any important title. He has proved nothing the last 3 or so years, I highly doubt he can just 'turn it on' once he feels a club is good enough for him. Even if the club can carry him to a title, he'll always have people who don't see him as a top class player due to this. If he doesn't improve that is, but I think our lowered standards give him a lot of leeway and that he would get a lot more critique if he played like he does for us for other top clubs. Spanish media would rip him to shreds if he played for Madrid. For the sort of money he'd cost, he would be considered a flop by now over there for sure.

Read above.

None of those have ever carried their team alone.

 

[kouroux]

Top players like Modric, Busquets, Silva etc carries their team. Not on their own no, but they got that stability and responsibility to help carry their team to a title. Ambitious, but aware that the road is part of the destination. I read Pogba as more pretentious, maybe not willing to grind out and learn the parts of his game that are necessary to archive that stability, yet you get the sense he sees himself a winner - deserving and just waiting on the big mystical reward that waits for him. He'll change clubs for sure, but I don't think he'll "carry" his team game by game to any important title. He has proved nothing the last 3 or so years, I highly doubt he can just 'turn it on' once he feels a club is good enough for him. Even if the club can carry him to a title, he'll always have people who don't see him as a top class player due to this. If he doesn't improve that is, but I think our lowered standards give him a lot of leeway and that he would get a lot more critique if he played like he does for us for other top clubs. Spanish media would rip him to shreds if he played for Madrid. For the sort of money he'd cost, he would be considered a flop by now over there for sure.

Read above.

Key words right there "not on their own". Pogba is expected to do basically things on his own. Put any of these players, in our current team and they would struggle just as much.
Put Pogba in a much better team and he would play much better. It's just as simple as that.

 

[ash_86]

I cannot remember the last time he played against Liverpool.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Top players like Modric, Busquets, Silva etc carries their team. Not on their own no, but they got that stability and responsibility to help carry their team to a title.

None of these player carried a team.
Modric had Ronaldo, Kroos, Ramos, Benzema, Marcelo, Bale, Casemiro.
Silva is playing with De Bruyne, Aguero, Sterling, Bernardo, Sane, etc
Busquets is playing with Lionel Messi ffs.

Paul Pogba is playing with Mata, Lingard, Rashford and Martial, there is a wee bit of difference there, he’s a football player not a god.

 

[kouroux]

None of these player carried a team.
Modric had Ronaldo, Kroos, Ramos, Benzema, Marcelo, Bale, Casemiro.
Silva is playing with De Bruyne, Aguero, Sterling, Bernardo, Sane, etc
Busquets is playing with Lionel Messi ffs.

Paul Pogba is playing with Mata, Lingard, Rashford and Martial, there is a wee bit of difference there, he’s a football player not a god.

And Xavi and Iniesta a few years ago. Of course it does help to have all time CM partners to shine more. Like you said, he's not a god.

 

[Amar__]

He has weird fetish of missing Liverpool and City games for some reason.

Nothing new here. He misses the big games every season.

Thank God he was fit for Rochdale though...

Yeah, it's annoying isn't it?

- Season 18/19 it's Liverpool, so far.
- Last season missed the PSG game for red card, and in the league missed Man City game(muscular injury even though he was fit for few months before and after, and just missed that game), and benched against Liverpool. That's our 3 biggest games of the season.
Season 17/18 - thigh injury, missed Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea in one period, few months after missed the game against City(injured), and later in the season missed just Liverpool game(was not in the squad just for that game for some reason )
- Season 16/17 - missed one league game against City, Spurs, Arsenal(surprisingly, played both Liverpool games which both ended 0-0).

 

[MikeKing]

None of those have ever carried their team alone.

Nobody said they did, right?

So in short you are all happy with the past and the future of Pogba at United, then? I'm sort of trying to evaluate without bias, just looking at our initial expectations of him despite the rest of our team. Judge him individually, without a whole lot of context besides his development as a player and his performances. Sure wish him the best for all of his future endeavours, but I really don't see how he has been anything else than a flop.

He had the same problems he has now even when Matic was still good, Zlatan too. It is not fair on him to play alongside McTominay for a whole season and expect him to really thrive, but I wouldn't expect that from him. That is my point. I do expect him to play better than McTominay though, if his lack of commitment to apply himself makes him look worse than McTominay in any odd game it's getting silly. His talent alone should make sure that could never happen, but that's where he is at the moment. I've personally had enough, he is not going to improve, certainly not at this club. He might not even be contributing in a larger scale to some of our problems within the squad regarding effort etc. but he himself has to first take responsibility for his own performances.

Since his arrival, I admit he has been a huge disappointment for me. I had big expectations yes, but regardless of the situation he has not delivered enough to say it isn't on him to perform better than he does, even in this setup. Nobody is talking about Pogba single-handedly winning United the league in this situation, come on now.

 

[edgar allan]

Key words right there "not on their own". Pogba is expected to do basically things on his own. Put any of these players, in our current team and they would struggle just as much.
Put Pogba in a much better team and he would play much better. It's just as simple as that.

They would struggle no where near as much and would plenty more effort in than Pogba for sure.

 

[kouroux]

They would struggle no where near as much and would plenty more effort in than Pogba for sure.

More effort isn't the answer to everything otherwise we should be fine now without Pogba the lazy cnut right ?

 

[edgar allan]

More effort isn't the answer to everything otherwise we should be fine now without Pogba the lazy cnut right ?

Haven't seen much effort, with or without him.

 

[Majima]

More effort isn't the answer to everything otherwise we should be fine now without Pogba the lazy cnut right ?

This fascination with 'effort above all' is the reason why England have been embarrassing at tournaments forever. You would have thought people would have learnt by now but obviously not.

Your analogy is completely correct. We don't have a functioning midfield here so, however good a footballer may be, if the supporting structure isn't there, they will inevitably struggle. What top player around the world past or present consistently performed when surrounded by mediocrity? Especially in midfield. I struggle to think of any, it just doesn't happen. People always choose to ignore this crucial fact when discussing Pogba.

 

[kouroux]

This fascination with 'effort above all' is the reason why England have been embarrassing at tournaments forever. You would have thought people would have learnt by now but obviously not.

Your analogy is completely correct. We don't have a functioning midfield here so, however good a footballer may be, if the supporting structure isn't there, they will inevitably struggle. People always choose to ignore this crucial fact when discussing Pogba.

I would have thought him being absent so much would wake up many of our fans that our issues run deeper than him and his laziness but you now have some special cases claiming it is basically a conspiracy to sell him in January. He's done a number on the fans

 

[pocco]

All supposition - what he does off the pitch counts for diddly squat.

I see what he's like on the pitch and have done in almost every game this season home and away in the flesh. He's working as hard as ever, and he's genuinely hurting at how shit we are. Seriously, that isn't up for debate.

Bullshit. Tell that to Fergie.

I go to every game too and i see him when he's strolling around when things aren't going well for him, shoulders slumped. I know I'm not imagining it because i heard pundits talking about it, saying they were convinced he was injured at one point because he looked so uninterested and barely ran, then he gets the ball and hes back alive again. Even they questioned his attitude.

 

[edgar allan]

This fascination with 'effort above all' is the reason why England have been embarrassing at tournaments forever. You would have thought people would have learnt by now but obviously not.

Your analogy is completely correct. We don't have a functioning midfield here so, however good a footballer may be, if the supporting structure isn't there, they will inevitably struggle. What top player around the world past or present consistently performed when surrounded by mediocrity? Especially in midfield. I struggle to think of any, it just doesn't happen. People always choose to ignore this crucial fact when discussing Pogba.

And some people refuse to acknowledge Pogbas contribution to the mediocrity.

 

[Majima]

I would have thought him being absent so much would wake up many of our fans that our issues run deeper than him and his laziness but you now have some special cases claiming it is basically a conspiracy to sell him in January. He's done a number on the fans

This has been going on for so long now, that people are now entrenched in their beliefs and nothing is going to change them. It's easier for people bury their heads in the sand and continue to scapegoat Pogba, than wise up to the real issues plaguing the team so he'll continue to be blamed for everything.

Also i do challenge the lazy tag, not everyone has to be an all-action battler, he's a creative attacking mid, there's a difference. Those guys are historically never the most physical, they have more intelligence than that. You put the workhorse next to them, you don't criticise them for not being the workhorse.

Also, how he even got such a toxic reputation from fans is sad. He's hardly on social media, you never hear anything about his personal life, all news that filters from the club describe him as a down to earth guy who's loved by everyone at the club, it's like they're describing a different person.

 

[Majima]

And some people refuse to acknowledge Pogbas contribution to the mediocrity.

This season:

In the Premier League, Paul Pogba has created the same amount of chances (13) as Scott McTominay (6), Jesse Lingard (4), Fred (3) and Matić (0) combined.

Minutes played:

1363 – McTominay, Lingard, Fred and Matić
450 – Pogba

Last season:



What is Pogba's contribution to the mediocrity exactly?

 

[VJ1762]

Our recruitment has been so shoddy that he has been left as the only creative spark who can do something. The next quality midfielder that we have is Scott, who is just not good enough now, even though he has come by leaps and bounds ever since his debut. Mata, Lingard and Pereira are shit. It also doesn't help that Pogba gets injured too frequently (did he miss games often for Juventus?) and he is still a player who gives you spectacular moments, but not consistent performances.Wish we had a Robbo or Keano right now.

 

[edgar allan]

This season:


Last season:



What is Pogba's contribution to the mediocrity exactly?

My Gran contributes more in attack than Fred, Lingard and Matic, the stats suggest he is a bit better than players who contribute nothing.
That is no recommendation

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Our only chance was another De Gea brick wall performances......won't miss Pogba's half speed jogging around the pitch too much to be honest.

I’d take half arsed Pogba over Matic or Lingard or Pereira and whatever other shite we have in this squad.

 

[Jeppers7]

Bullshit. Tell that to Fergie.

I go to every game too and i see him when he's strolling around when things aren't going well for him, shoulders slumped. I know I'm not imagining it because i heard pundits talking about it, saying they were convinced he was injured at one point because he looked so uninterested and barely ran, then he gets the ball and hes back alive again. Even they questioned his attitude.

I'm a season ticket holder in the Stratford end and that's nonsense. He tries as hard as anyone. He's always open for the ball and this season he's played his deep lying roll with a lot of discipline. I've never seen him shy away from the ball even when things aren't going well.

 

[Canagel]

I counted 9 misses from Rashford alone, jeez. If only he could finish 1v1.
Lingard at 3.40 is just
No surprise to see our attackers wasting his assists, they've been embarrassing clowns for years.
Only one to come out of that video with his dignity still intact is Martial.

Pogba and Martial are the two best players at the club and have been for some time. Ironically same two players that saved Mourinhos job last season inspite of their awful treatment. The real culprits are being exposed infront of us now that not one but two convenient scapegoats are missing.

 

[Jeppers7]

My Gran contributes more in attack than Fred, Lingard and Matic, the stats suggest he is a bit better than players who contribute nothing.
That is no recommendation

What about the rest of our players ?

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

I still find it strange that our best player by far in the current squad is such a divider of opinion. Some people take defeat in a rather dissonant way, it appears...

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He's actually kinda injury prone. It's just his injuries don't usually last long, but he gets quite a lot of them.

 

[He'sRaldo]

He's actually kinda injury prone. It's just his injuries don't usually last long, but he gets quite a lot of them.

He's one of those players who plays every game when fit and barely gets rested, so that probably affects his injury record.

 

[Andersonson]

Pogba and Martial are the two best players at the club and have been for some time. Ironically same two players that saved Mourinhos job last season inspite of their awful treatment. The real culprits are being exposed infront of us now that not one but two convenient scapegoats are missing.

Two best players for some time?? I can understand Pogba, and he has the stats to back it up. But where does Martial come in? What season, period or anything makes you say that? His 11 goals first season or what? He's been average for years. Glenn Murray has more goals.

As for Pogba he is our best player, but not a world class one. He needs better players around him too be that. And thats why he's not among the best players in the world.

 

[MikeKing]

He's one of those players who plays every game when fit and barely gets rested, so that probably affects his injury record.

He is one of those players who has excuses lined up for everything too.

 

[He'sRaldo]

He is one of those players who has excuses lined up for everything too.

Eh.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Top players like Modric, Busquets, Silva etc carries their team.

Can a mod make this @MikeKing 's tagline please?

Busquets carries Barcelona - 18/10/2019

Comedy gold.

 

[kouroux]

This has been going on for so long now, that people are now entrenched in their beliefs and nothing is going to change them. It's easier for people bury their heads in the sand and continue to scapegoat Pogba, than wise up to the real issues plaguing the team so he'll continue to be blamed for everything.

Also i do challenge the lazy tag, not everyone has to be an all-action battler, he's a creative attacking mid, there's a difference. Those guys are historically never the most physical, they have more intelligence than that. You put the workhorse next to them, you don't criticise them for not being the workhorse.

Also, how he even got such a toxic reputation from fans is sad. He's hardly on social media, you never hear anything about his personal life, all news that filters from the club describe him as a down to earth guy who's loved by everyone at the club, it's like they're describing a different person.

Regarding the "lazy" bit, I was impersonating the "fans" and what they always say.

 

[Infordin]

The best examples (in recent history) of players who carry average teams are Gerrard and Totti.

If you want to go old school, you can bring up Maradona. Then again, I don't think anyone expects Pogba to be Maradona. He's good but not that good.

 

[JPRouve]

The best examples (in recent history) of players who carry average teams are Gerrard and Totti.

If you want to go old school, you can bring up Maradona. Then again, I don't think anyone expects Pogba to be Maradona. He's good but not that good.

For me that's where everything starts and ends, Pogba is overrated by a lot of his supporters and critics. The latter thinks that he should be able to play like an all time great when he isn't close to that level, I said it when we bought him, he is around Rakitic's level.

 

[kouroux]

The best examples (in recent history) of players who carry average teams are Gerrard and Totti.

If you want to go old school, you can bring up Maradona. Then again, I don't think anyone expects Pogba to be Maradona. He's good but not that good.

The trophies that Gerrard for Liverpool, each time he also had some great teammates. He was their star without a doubt but there wasn't a humongous gulf between him and some of his better teammates that it could be considered as him carrying them.
Pogba is a very very much different type of player anyway. Like @JPRouve implied, up until this day people don't know how to evalute his limits as a football and end up expectating way too much.

 

[A-man]

When it comes to creativity everybody else is miles from him and that is the way it has been since Ibrahimovic left.