[fergiesarmy1]

Even if you said that was serious post, I would have said that was more sensible post than the pile of shit you posted in this thread.

There are few who don't like the player but can see what he brings to the team and where he lacks, and then there are posters like you, who just post nonsense and can't even rate a player just because you don't like the player.

I loved him when he joined, I don’t like him now.

Chill out he will be gone soon.

 

[roonster09]

You still haven't answered the crucial question to the validity of this article, is a four game sample a significant one? Do you think

The article is layered in so much bullshit you are dopey to laud it as incredible, naive is probably a better word.

I know when and they've selected the goal and assist contributions from so I don't know why you keep mentioning. Its selective because he had an incredible run of form, along with the whole team, after Mou left, 14 of the 18 goals and assist contributions they are using came in the 11 games after Mou immediately left. Before that he had 6 goals and assist contributions in the league and he's had 4 since. How do you not define that as a purple patch?

Of course it's a small sample size, does that change anything? No. It shows Pogba has won possession more than others in the league.

So just in a purple patch, his contributions of best attackers who achieved those numbers in 9 months (-2 months summer break). Shows how good he was when he played in attacking role. He was moved to deeper position, would be weird to expect same numbers from deeper player. Not to mention whole team just ran out of gas after few months.

No, it's not bs article. You just want to play down as you don't like the player.

 

[Majima]

How he appears would improve drastically if he could retain the ball when under pressure.

We played some team recently it he must have lost the ball three or four times alone in the first half.

He could, but maybe you would risk losing part of his biggest strengths?

His natural tendencies are to take risks on the ball and create. Of course you going to lose the ball more when doing this.

Other teams compensate for that, by playing them further forward so it's not harmful to them and they can solely focus on what they do best.

Have a look at the heat maps for similar players, De Bruyne & Eriksen etc and notice how far forward they play in comparison. I'm sure if you played them in deep midfield, they would lose the ball under pressure a lot too. But you obviously wouldn't play them there to begin with because it doesn't maximise their strengths.

 

[roonster09]

So, you agree that playing with better players does not guarantee better stats. Which was my original point. There are plenty of examples about players who excelled in good teams, moved to better teams and struggled. Because not everything was about them anymore.

Nothing is guaranteed in football. Not sure that was your original point, the first one I remember is your saying team is built around Pogba which is not true at all.

Even if that was not your original point, your next few posts said Pogba have better stats as everything flows through him which is not the case at all. Had we built the team around Pogba then he would be playing in attacking role.

There are even more examples of players who played in good teams where their numbers just exploded.

 

[roonster09]

I loved him when he joined, I don’t like him now.

Chill out he will be gone soon.

Can't wait to replace him with Longstaff.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Can't wait to replace him with Longstaff.

Wouldn’t count on him being replaced by the clowns in charge but he’s going regardless. It’s all about the money.

 

[roonster09]

Wouldn’t count on him being replaced by the clowns in charge but he’s going regardless. It’s all about the money.

So fans are not even sure he will be replaced but still want him gone.

Hatred on player > what's best for the club.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

So fans are not even sure he will be replaced but still want him gone.

Hatred on player > what's best for the club.

I want him gone because he wants to go, is that hard to understand?

 

[roonster09]

I want him gone because he wants to go, is that hard to understand?

Yes, very hard to understand. Did you feel same way about De Gea, Ronaldo, Rooney and many more players? If that's the case then fair enough.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Yes, very hard to understand. Did you feel same way about De Gea, Ronaldo, Rooney and many more players? If that's the case then fair enough.

If any players wants to go then yes, if they change their mind then no. Do you think Pogba is going to change his mind?

 

[Treble]

Nothing is guaranteed in football. Not sure that was your original point, the first one I remember is your saying team is built around Pogba which is not true at all.

Even if that was not your original point, your next few posts said Pogba have better stats as everything flows through him which is not the case at all. Had we built the team around Pogba then he would be playing in attacking role.

There are even more examples of players who played in good teams where their numbers just exploded.

Well, I disagree that the current team isn't built around Pogba. He is far more productive for United (since Ole) than he is for France which suggests that he is way more central to how we attack than he is to France.

I think he is an excellent player and we should add more such players around him in a more functional set-up.

 

[pocco]

Yes, very hard to understand. Did you feel same way about De Gea, Ronaldo, Rooney and many more players? If that's the case then fair enough.

Pogba has never delivered to their standards or consistency. What a daft comparison.

 

[roonster09]

If any players wants to go then yes, if they change their mind then no. Do you think Pogba is going to change his mind?

I don't know. De Gea was so close to exit and the swapped player was already at airport. I though he will be gone for sure and then he stayed.

Ronaldo talked all season about wanting to leave and even agreed with Blatter when he made slave comment. Rooney wanted out, which was confirmed by Rooney.

I don't mind losing any player as long as they are properly replaced.

Re whether Pogba will change is mind? I don't know. Things change very quickly in football. As long as he is ManUtd player, he will have my support.

 

[roonster09]

Pogba has never delivered to their standards or consistency. What a daft comparison.

I thought to add 'without comparing their contribution' but then assumed it's obvious I was comparing the situation not the quality of players or their contribution.

My mistake for not thinking few are too thick to get that.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Re whether Pogba will change is mind? I don't know. Things change very quickly in football. As long as he is ManUtd player, he will have my support.

With his gimp brothers latest comments that he is already talking to Spanish players about next season and the fact we are more than likely not going to be playing champions league football I doubt it and I think we will see plenty more crap from his camp before the season is out.

 

[roonster09]

Well, I disagree that the current team isn't built around Pogba. He is far more productive for United (since Ole) than he is for France which suggests that he is way more central to how we attack than he is to France.

I think he is an excellent player and we should add more such players around him in a more functional set-up.

How is it built around Pogba when his best attribute is attacking but he is playing in deeper role?

Anyways lets agree to disagree. Our views are so different, we won't be agreeing anytime soon.

 

[pocco]

I thought to add 'without comparing their contribution' but then assumed it's obvious I was comparing the situation not the quality of players or their contribution.

My mistake for not thinking few are too thick to get that.

Well then it's a completely stupid comparison. Two club legends, i don't think anybody wanted them gone. Especially Rooney in his prime. It's not even comparable, probably more comparable to Di Maria.

I wouldn't expect anybody to be so stupid as to not realise this.

 

[roonster09]

Well then it's a completely stupid comparison. Two club legends, i don't think anybody wanted them gone. Especially Rooney in his prime. It's not even comparable, probably more comparable to Di Maria.

I wouldn't expect anybody to be so stupid as to not realise this.

It's stupid comparison for people who are stupid enough not to read the posts and context, won't be surprised if you always fall in that criteria.

 

[pocco]

It's stupid comparison for people who are stupid enough not to read the posts and context, won't be surprised if you always fall into that criteria.

I've read through twice now and there is no context misunderstanding. You threw out three names of players that have been our best players consisntently over the last 10 years +. Wanting any of them gone, especially Rooney and Ronaldo was a much harder stance to take because they were that good. Wanting Pogba gone, when he barely strings together 2 good games, is a million miles away.

Unlike Rooney and Ronaldo, we could have made significant improvement to our midfield with the money we got for Pogba. It wasn't and isn't as outlandish an outlook to take as you made out.

Didn't think I'd have to explain something so obvious but hopefully it helps you out mate. I fixed your post, insult included, too.

 

[roonster09]

I've read through twice now and there is no context misunderstanding. You threw out three names of players that have been our best players consisntently over the last 10 years +. Wanting any of them gone, especially Rooney and Ronaldo was a much harder stance to take because they were that good. Wanting Pogba gone, when he barely strings together 2 good games, is a million miles away.

Unlike Rooney and Ronaldo, we could have made significant improvement to our midfield with the money we got for Pogba. It wasn't and isn't as outlandish an outlook to take as you made out.

Didn't think I'd have to explain something so obvious but hopefully it helps you out mate.

fecking hell, poster made a very straight forward post saying "I want him gone because he wants to go, is that hard to understand?" Those are the obvious examples to test how true he was to those words. What's the point of asking "so you wanted Di Maria gone" when every tom dick harry wanted him gone.

It's not some rocket science or some complicated thing, where you would have to post shit loads of stats to explain. Very basic and straight forward. Shame it's not basic for everyone and had to be explained.

 

[Majima]

The position isn't alien to him but yes you are correct, he isn't very good at it. Lauding him for only losing the ball as much as attacking players in that position is disingenuous. The article is hyping his contribution in that position, specifically his defensive work so trying to paint him as a good defensive player in disingenuous. How much does he lose the ball compared to Jorginho, for example?.

I don't think Pogba is a good defensive player at all, he has the physical attributes but it's not natural to him. I agree with you that the stats are not in depth enough. The conundrum is, Pogba is a similar profile of player to De Bruyne, Eriksen, Maddison etc, but due to our circumstances, he's playing much, much deeper than those, like a defensive midfielder. It's a tough one to analyse fairly isn't it?

But the stats do highlight the misconception that he isn't doing his fair share of defensive work considering. That's the main info you can take.

You couldn't have picked a more opposite player with Jorginho by the way. To me, i don't think it's fair to compare them. Jorginho being a metronomic player couldn't be more the opposite to Pogba. Which is funny because they are playing the same position! (I wish we had someone like Jorginho here for the record).

My main argument is, he is being accused of downing tools and lack of effort by everyone, but he clearly is trying, it's just not what he is best at. Hard to criticise him for that.

 

[roonster09]

I don't think Pogba is a good defensive player at all, he has the physical attributes but it's not natural to him. I agree with you that the stats are not in depth enough. The conundrum is, Pogba is a similar profile of player to De Bruyne, Eriksen, Maddison etc, but he's being playing much, much deeper than those, like a defensive midfielder. It's a tough one to analyse fairly isn't it?

But the stats do highlight the misconception that he isn't doing his fair share of defensive work considering. That's the main info you can take.

You couldn't have picked a more opposite player with Jorginho by the way. To me, i don't think it's fair to compare them. Jorginho being a metronomic player couldn't be more the opposite to Pogba. Which is funny because they are playing the same position! (I wish we had someone like Jorginho here for the record).

My main argument is, he is being accused of downing tools and lack of effort by everyone, but he clearly is trying, it's just not what he is best at. Hard to criticise him for that.

I think you put it in much better way. Those stats answers the misconception that he isn't going defensive work.

Also would say he is very poor defensively in general as it's not natural for him and he is always step behind or late. Ideally he should be playing in more advanced role like how Ole played him when he took over.

 

[Majima]

I think you put it in much better way. Those stats shows answers the misconception that he isn't going defensive work.

Also would say he is very poor defensively in general as it's not natural for him and he is always step behind or late. Ideally he should be playing in more advanced role like how Ole played him when he took over.

At the highest level, where attackers with the sharpest thinking reign supreme, Pogba is the very last person i would want in a defensive midfield. It's absurd really.

Even for France, when he played in a 2 with Kante, they still had Matuidi to add protection when out of possession.

Where he played for Juve & us when Ole first came in are his best positions, i agree. He can even play in a 2 similar to France's setup if it's well balanced. He can still chip in defensively of course but it doesn't take away from his main focus.

 

[JPRouve]

At the highest level, where attackers with the sharpest thinking reign supreme, Pogba is the very last person i would want in a defensive midfield. It's absurd really.

Even for France, when he played in a 2 with Kante, they still had Matuidi to add protection when out of possession.

Where he played for Juve & us when Ole first came in are his best positions, i agree. He can even play in a 2 similar to France's setup if it's well balanced. He can still chip in defensively of course but it doesn't take away from his main focus.

Which has nothing to do with Pogba but the fact that Mbappé doesn't defend at all on the right side. With Matuidi the midfield can completely slide to the right and means that Pavard isn't alone all the time.

 

[Majima]

Which has nothing to do with Pogba but the fact that Mbappé doesn't defend at all on the right side. With Matuidi the midfield can completely slide to the right and means that Pavard isn't alone all the time.

Ah okay. So Matuidi's role, even if it was originally to compensate for Mbappé, had nothing to do with Pogba's lack of defensive anticipation being exposed in a midfield 2? Is that a misconception by me?

 

[JPRouve]

Ah okay. So Matuidi's role, even if it was originally to compensate for Mbappé, had nothing to do with Pogba's lack of defensive anticipation being exposed in a midfield 2? Is that a misconception by me?

Yeah, Matuidi's or Sissoko's(Euro 2016) roles had nothing to do with Pogba, in the end it helps everyone Pogba included but the reason behind that system was to compensate for weak points in wide areas, at the Euro it was the RB position with either Jallet or Sagna and after that due to Mbappé who doesn't defend and also happens to be the most attacking player in the team. Pogba is a lot less attacking for France and while he has clear defensive flaws, he isn't a liability defensively.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Of course it's a small sample size, does that change anything? No. It shows Pogba has won possession more than others in the league.

So just in a purple patch, his contributions of best attackers who achieved those numbers in 9 months (-2 months summer break). Shows how good he was when he played in attacking role. He was moved to deeper position, would be weird to expect same numbers from deeper player. Not to mention whole team just ran out of gas after few months.

No, it's not bs article. You just want to play down as you don't like the player.

I'm amazed that you accuse me of bias when you have claimed that the headline (which seeks to highlight the tone of the article) doesn't matter, what it says in the article doesn't matter, all that matters is that Pogba has picked up more loose balls than anyone else in the PL in the first four games this season. Sorry but that stat doesn't impress me at all, it's a long way from being 'incredible'. It's pretty much useless with such a small sample. If you said an Englishman such as Rice had done similar it wouldn't impress me all that much either. That Lewis Dunk is up there it doesn't mean anything to me. I think its one of the less impressive stats and more reflective of the position the player plays in, given all the players mentioned play in the same part of the pitch where attacks break down so the ball comes loose more. For a DLP I'd speculate that other players would leave the recoveries to him because he is the one to get the play going by definition of their position. If he tops that stat for the season then sure you can claim that he has that extra bit of anticipation to get the ball but recoveries are not what Pogba is going to be judged on.

We all know that Pogba had a significant purple patch last season and the numbers were inflated by an unusual amount of penalties, it is what it is. I don't think he should still be dining out on it, just like Ole shouldn't be dining out on his record at the same time. It's done, Pogba has gone back to being the frustrating players he was before that patch.

The conclusion I have reached on Pogba is that for all his talent, he has a low bottom level that he shows far too often. I feel he plays just as many terrible games as brilliant ones. I don't think he's the guy to build your team around and I think we can build a better functioning team without continually try to solve the conundrum 'how do we get the best out of Pogba'.

I don't think Pogba is a good defensive player at all, he has the physical attributes but it's not natural to him. I agree with you that the stats are not in depth enough. The conundrum is, Pogba is a similar profile of player to De Bruyne, Eriksen, Maddison etc, but due to our circumstances, he's playing much, much deeper than those, like a defensive midfielder. It's a tough one to analyse fairly isn't it?

But the stats do highlight the misconception that he isn't doing his fair share of defensive work considering. That's the main info you can take.

You couldn't have picked a more opposite player with Jorginho by the way. To me, i don't think it's fair to compare them. Jorginho being a metronomic player couldn't be more the opposite to Pogba. Which is funny because they are playing the same position! (I wish we had someone like Jorginho here for the record).

My main argument is, he is being accused of downing tools and lack of effort by everyone, but he clearly is trying, it's just not what he is best at. Hard to criticise him for that.

I think the big problem people have with Pogba in that position is his dawdling on the ball and how he gets dispossessed easily after engaging in pointless strength battles. I agree generally though in that he should not be playing that position for us. I wish we had a Jorginho too. In fact, I'd like us to get rid of Pogba and get a proper DLP (like Jorginho) in and bring in someone like Fernandes who could replace his attacking output.

 

[Majima]

Yeah, Matuidi's or Sissoko's(Euro 2016) roles had nothing to do with Pogba, in the end it helps everyone Pogba included but the reason behind that system was to compensate for weak points in wide areas, at the Euro it was the RB position with either Jallet or Sagna and afterthat due to Mbappé who doesn't defend and also happens to be the most attacking player in the team. Pogba is a lot less attacking for France and while he has clear defensive flaws, he isn't a liability defensively.

That makes a lot of sense and clears it up. Thank you.

I think the big problem people have with Pogba in that position is his dawdling on the ball and how he gets dispossessed easily after engaging in pointless strength battles. I agree generally though in that he should not be playing that position for us. I wish we had a Jorginho too. In fact, I'd like us to get rid of Pogba and get a proper DLP (like Jorginho) in and bring in someone like Fernandes who could replace his attacking output.

It's a fair criticism that i generally agree with, I wish he would cut that out too. Like @JPRouve highlighted above though, he is a lot less attacking for France, so maybe it's a consequence of our over reliance on him?

I wish our team is as well managed as that. DLP + AM would be perfect. I would be happy with that too if he had to leave. We would probably be better for it too, mainly because the club wouldn't be able to rely on one star player anymore.

What i don't get is, why is it generally regarded that we need two players to replace his role in our team, yet we wouldn't buy a suitable partner in the summer instead to maximise the team? It wouldn't have to result in him leaving if we got our act together. We could have an exciting team with him in it also.

 

[Infordin]

Does anyone have any data - from the last three - on how Man United do with Pogba starting vs how they do without him starting?

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[Jeppers7]

Nice....he was in the tunnel before kickoff too, but you know he's just not committed and desperate to leave.

Saw most of the second half of City v Norwich yesterday, not seem any headlines about KDB being totally anonymous and bang average. Seems he only gets good press ?

 

[OL29]

The most random assortment of players ever!

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Glad he wasn’t on the pitch

 

[laughtersassassin]

Glad he wasn’t on the pitch

Jesus I hate our fans.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Jesus I hate our fans.

Jesus wouldn’t come here

 

[OL29]

Glad he wasn’t on the pitch

Pathetic.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Pathetic.

Well we do seem to win more when he isn’t actually playing.

 

[Cassidy]

Well we do seem to win more when he isn’t actually playing.

Are you sure about that?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Are you sure about that?

Well I can think of a few off the top of my head, planet football have as higher points per game without him as well.