[Amar__]

None of your examples make sense because I said disfunctional or poor team. Leicester were a super function team kante was great but so was drink water,’Morgan, huth etc. Hazard has been called overrated and inconsistent everytime Chelsea has their every other season of terrible form. Kroos for Madrid ? You mean the same kroos who had an awful year last year when Madrid were “disfunctional”. Gerrard is literally called mr Hollywood because he would just try everything to do something good but a lot of time it didn’t work out which is why most of this forum don’t rate him highly. He didn’t find any consistency until he got a few other great players to join him.

You just proved my point.

You seriously think that we are worse than all of those mentioned teams? You do realise we have won Europa League in last few years, finished second and won some other lesser throphies too while Pogba was here, and he didn't specially stand out in any of those years.

I wouldn't call us the worst team in the world, and definitely not worse than Leicester team that finished ninth two years ago, Chelsea team that regulary finished outside of top4 with Hazard staying their best player by mile year by year(except one single year when people started calling him overrated, when he had bad season and Chelsea fought relegation(while we have Pogba apparently having his best season and we have our worst season for some reason), Arsenal team whose maximum was finishing fourth, Liverpool that finished eight the year after Suarez, etc.

But keep on defending your hero and pretend he is playing in a relegation team while he keeps underperforming whenever his teammates need him in big games. All those teams finished in higher position when those players performed, and we are yet to see that influence from Pogba on this team.

 

[mancan92]

Gerrard was for Liverpool, for one. I think you are way off on Pogba, making far too many excuses for him. He's inconsistent and needs to put his act together and stop blaming everyone else. Not passing to teammates becausehhe finds them beneath himself?even I doubt he is that arrogant. If he is our best player, he should carry the team. Maradona for Napoli. Bale for Spurs, Shearer at Blackburn, RvP for us in 2012/2013, ddg for us these last few seasons. List goes on. Pogba is not among them. Talent is there though.

Gerrard isn't one though he was inconsistent until he was joined by other top players.

 

[Rossa]

Gerrard isn't one though he was inconsistent until he was joined by other top players.

Carried his team much more so than Pogba ever has. Much more so!

 

[mancan92]

You seriously think that we are worse than all of those mentioned teams? You do realise we have won Europa League in last few years, finished second and won some other lesser throphies too while Pogba was here, and he didn't specially stand out in any of those years.

I wouldn't call us the worst team in the world, and definitely not worse than Leicester team that finished ninth two years ago, Chelsea team that regulary finished outside of top4 with Hazard staying their best player by mile year by year(except one single year when people started calling him overrated, when he had bad season and Chelsea fought relegation(while we have Pogba apparently having his best season and we have our worst season for some reason), Arsenal team whose maximum was finishing fourth, Liverpool that finished eight the year after Suarez, etc.

But keep on defending your hero and pretend he is playing in a relegation team while he keeps underperforming whenever his teammates need him in big games. All those teams finished in higher position when those players performed, and we are yet to see that influence from Pogba on this team.

We are more disfunctional than Leicester when they won the league, we are a worst team than real Madrid, we are a worst team than Chelsea the seasons they won the league, pogba is inconsistent like Gerrard was until Liverpool bought top players. Arsenal's team that finished fourth with van persie was a more functional team. The Liverpool team with brendan Rogers was clearly a more structured and functional attacking unit.

We won the europa league with pogba being man of the match.

 

[mancan92]

Carried his team much more so than Pogba ever has. Much more so!

Between the years when Gerrard didn't have those great players that joined him where did Liverpool finish in the league? Just enlighten me.

 

[Amar__]

We are more disfunctional than Leicester when they won the league, we are a worst team than real Madrid, we are a worst team than Chelsea the seasons they won the league, pogba is inconsistent like Gerrard was until Liverpool bought top players. Arsenal's team that finished fourth with van persie was a more functional team. The Liverpool team with brendan Rogers was clearly a more structured and functional attacking unit.

We won the europa league with pogba being man of the match.

Okay now you are just playing dumb, I am mentioning those teams with good and bad seasons and you are comparing our team with best seasons of those teams. Goodbye pal and enjoy in this thread, this was just a good reminder for me to avoid this thread like I usually do.

 

[Dante]

His defensive awareness against Leeds was, frankly, really poor. Some nice vision on his passes, though.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Gerrard was for Liverpool, for one. I think you are way off on Pogba, making far too many excuses for him. He's inconsistent and needs to put his act together and stop blaming everyone else. Not passing to teammates becausehhe finds them beneath himself?even I doubt he is that arrogant. If he is our best player, he should carry the team. Maradona for Napoli. Bale for Spurs, Shearer at Blackburn, RvP for us in 2012/2013, ddg for us these last few seasons. List goes on. Pogba is not among them. Talent is there though.

Could it be that Pogba's problem is that he has more jobs to do? The players you listed are all attackers except for DDG, who is a keeper. In our team, we usually need Pogba to attack, defend, and control all at once, and not doing one of them usually gets him criticized.

 

[mancan92]

Okay now you are just playing dumb, I am mentioning those teams with good and bad seasons and you are comparing our team with best seasons of those teams. Goodbye pal and enjoy in this thread, this was just a good reminder for me to avoid this thread like I usually do.

No you decided to move the goal posts. You talked about said players in said teams. All those teams are clearly either better or were better functioning teams during the time those players were there. Why compare Leicester the season after? When they were less functional. Why compare kroos when Madrid had a functional team. That's the whole point. Once we are a functioning team you will see pogba perform consistently the same way it has worked for every other player in history.

 

[Rossa]

Could it be that Pogba's problem is that he has more jobs to do? The players you listed are all attackers except for DDG, who is a keeper. In our team, we usually need Pogba to attack, defend, and control all at once, and not doing one of them usually gets him criticized.

Oh the excuses, always the excuses. Gerrard was also a midfielder. Pogba doesn't elevate the team.

 

[Rossa]

Between the years when Gerrard didn't have those great players that joined him where did Liverpool finish in the league? Just enlighten me.

When they won the CL? It's not as if we don't have other good players mate. You come off as a real fan boy. Pogba has been for the most part poor and inconsistent. He has never been our best player, or most important because he can't be relied upon. When teams press us, it's like playing with a man less.

 

[mancan92]

When they won the CL? It's not as if we don't have other good players mate. You come off as a real fan boy. Pogba has been for the most part poor and inconsistent. He has never been our best player, or most important because he can't be relied upon. When teams press us, it's like playing with a man less.

So your going to use a one off tournament and not the actual consistency you have been discussing. What happened to the 38 game seasons. Where was Gerrards consistency?

Or you come off as some sort of hater. Pogba is often our best player even when everyone else is crap. He is often creating the chances or heavily involved in them the stats clearly show this. When teams press us he is the only one that can actually control the ball. He is our best player and the only one at times who even resembles a footballer.

 

[Pace Abuser]

How many of our outfield players are wanted by Real and Juventus, PSG even if they got an inkling, apart from Pogba?

 

[Lennon7]

His defensive awareness against Leeds was, frankly, really poor. Some nice vision on his passes, though.

That’s why we need a strong DM and ideally a new Herrera type. Unless Pogba leaves, and assuming Bruno is the type of player I think he is, then we’re in the market for the wrong player. Need to focus on the defensive/holding midfield position.

 

[Rossa]

So your going to use a one off tournament and not the actual consistency you have been discussing. What happened to the 38 game seasons. Where was Gerrards consistency?

Or you come off as some sort of hater. Pogba is often our best player even when everyone else is crap. He is often creating the chances or heavily involved in them the stats clearly show this. When teams press us he is the only one that can actually control the ball. He is our best player and the only one at times who even resembles a footballer.

Not hating at all. Just think you are vastly over rating him and making silly suggestions why he is inconsistent. He has all the talent in the world, but he only shows up when he wants to,and often only for 30 mins. He's also piss poor defensively. He cant track a runner to save his life, and his defending inside his own box is just out of this world terrible. He does pass the ball well and can provide some through balls and even Assists, but he crumbles when we are under pressure.

 

[MikeKing]

He is amazing.

Then there was this moment, right after he did something amazing that we've seen way to often. Where he sort of thinks to himself, "that was amazing, I'm so good" Then McTominay tried to make a play and Pogba was overly cute with a sloppy flick pass and lost the ball. He didn't run like he made a mistake, and looked at McTominay like he should have read the situation to the level of Pogba, "You go run for it". I truly believe his mentality is that thick. I'm not just reading more into this than what it was, because last season this happened a lot but it was also disguised by a lot of other problems. It is just a really bad attitude and really what good does it if you make an amazing drible and hits the post, only to miss a pass and cost your team a goal moments later. He needs to get his head out of his ass and I mean that in the most respectful way.

 

[In Rainbows]

Gerrard was for Liverpool, for one. I think you are way off on Pogba, making far too many excuses for him. He's inconsistent and needs to put his act together and stop blaming everyone else. Not passing to teammates becausehhe finds them beneath himself?even I doubt he is that arrogant. If he is our best player, he should carry the team. Maradona for Napoli. Bale for Spurs, Shearer at Blackburn, RvP for us in 2012/2013, ddg for us these last few seasons. List goes on. Pogba is not among them. Talent is there though.

RVP did not carry us. It's a narrative that is untrue simply because of how good he was that year. Rafael had a great season. Chicha had a great season. De gea had a great season. Carrick was amazing that year. Vidic and Rio had good seasons for short periods. Rooney had a good season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He is amazing.

Then there was this moment, right after he did something amazing that we've seen way to often. Where he sort of thinks to himself, "that was amazing, I'm so good" Then McTominay tried to make a play and Pogba was overly cute with a sloppy flick pass and lost the ball. He didn't run like he made a mistake, and looked at McTominay like he should have read the situation to the level of Pogba, "You go run for it". I truly believe his mentality is that thick. I'm not just reading more into this than what it was, because last season this happened a lot but it was also disguised by a lot of other problems. It is just a really bad attitude and really what good does it if you make an amazing drible and hits the post, only to miss a pass and cost your team a goal moments later. He needs to get his head out of his ass and I mean that in the most respectful way.

I think this is fair criticism. That moment annoyed me too. And was classic Pogba.

He did play well overall though. But we know he’s capable of playing that well. If only he could be more consistent and cut out these stupid moments then he really would be as good as his fan club on here seem to think he is.

 

[mancan92]

Not hating at all. Just think you are vastly over rating him and making silly suggestions why he is inconsistent. He has all the talent in the world, but he only shows up when he wants to,and often only for 30 mins. He's also piss poor defensively. He cant track a runner to save his life, and his defending inside his own box is just out of this world terrible. He does pass the ball well and can provide some through balls and even Assists, but he crumbles when we are under pressure.

Someone made the point above. Maybe you are asking pogba to be something he is not. You are looking for him to be an all action midfielder, defensive, number 10, box to box, tempo controlling etc. Look at the things he is good at and focus on those because you can pick apart every players game. Kante for example offers absolutely nothing in attack and looked poor in that position last season but you won't be going around slating Kante. It's not his position it's not right for him tactically.

 

[MikeKing]

Someone made the point above. Maybe you are asking pogba to be something he is not. You are looking for him to be an all action midfielder, defensive, number 10, box to box, tempo controlling etc. Look at the things he is good at and focus on those because you can pick apart every players game. Kante for example offers absolutely nothing in attack and looked poor in that position last season but you won't be going around slating Kante. It's not his position it's not right for him tactically.

Pogba has played as a number 10 and struggled with the press and less time on the ball. He needs space in front of him to produce something and he'll only ever get that against weaker opposition or generally when playing a bit deeper.

If he is playing in midfield and not as a number 10 he needs to use his abilities in more facets than what you seem to propose. He has a lot of qualities and he can use them if he applies himself. If he is poor at those things, he needs to fix them like all other players do, if he is to truly evolve. He can run the hype machine too, but that doesn't really mean he actually fulfilled his potential. Kante isn't an attacker but the reason he actually was played higher up the pitch was because he applied himself when asked to do a task higher up the field, and he wasn't directly poor either, just not his expertise. That is what we need Pogba to do, just be acceptable defensively if he is going to play as an 8, imo.

 

[mancan92]

Pogba has played as a number 10 and struggled with the press and less time on the ball. He needs space in front of him to produce something and he'll only ever get that against weaker opposition or generally when playing a bit deeper.

If he is playing in midfield and not as a number 10 he needs to use his abilities in more facets than what you seem to propose. He has a lot of qualities and he can use them if he applies himself. If he is poor at those things, he needs to fix them like all other players do, if he is to truly evolve. He can run the hype machine too, but that doesn't really mean he actually fulfilled his potential. Kante isn't an attacker but the reason he actually was played higher up the pitch was because he applied himself when asked to do a task higher up the field, and he wasn't directly poor either, just not his expertise. That is what we need Pogba to do, just be acceptable defensively if he is going to play as an 8, imo.

That's a fair statement. I still think the expectation is too high. Actually Kante was serviceable because of his running and still defensive prowess but when asked to do anything attacking he was awful. He was an attacking midfielder and got 4 goals and 4 assists and played 36 games. I'd say that is not serviceable as an attacking midfield. He didn't dictate play or control the game or create many chances. He only did the things he's good at. Pressing, winning the ball back and running with basic tidy passing.

Edit: looking at kantes stats even more shows how bad he was in that position 6 shots on target all season only 4 big chances created, 15 successful through balls etc. That's awful

 

[MikeKing]

That's a fair statement. I still think the expectation is too high. Actually Kante was serviceable because of his running and still defensive prowess but when asked to do anything attacking he was awful. He was an attacking midfielder and got 4 goals and 4 assists and played 36 games. I'd say that is not serviceable as an attacking midfield. He didn't dictate play or control the game or create many chances. He only did the things he's good at. Pressing, winning the ball back and running with basic tidy passing.

But nobody is asking Pogba to be a defensive midfielder, just apply himself to the task. If he truly can't do that, then that weakens his level significantly in my opinion and makes him more than replaceable, because it is very hard to have a player like that functioning in any team. It might not be worth it, however if he gets his shit together then the upside is huge so I'm against selling him until it is totally clear he is just dysfunctional. I hope he'll rise to the high expectations.

 

[mancan92]

But nobody is asking Pogba to be a defensive midfielder, just apply himself to the task. If he truly can't do that, then that weakens his level significantly in my opinion and makes him more than replaceable, because it is very hard to have a player like that functioning in any team. It might not be worth it, however if he gets his shit together then the upside is huge so I'm against selling him until it is totally clear he is just dysfunctional. I hope he'll rise to the high expectations.

It's not like he cannot or doesn't defend its just not a big part of his game and isn't his focus. He still won more duels than kante, had a higher rate of successful tackles, won more ariel duels, higher number of blocked shots and a similar number of recovery tackles. It shows he is doing it but its just not his main focus. Of course over time he will improve but really he is doing his part.

There are many midfield great who cannot defend. Zidane, iniesta, scholes etc not defensively great but had players next to them who carried the defensive burden to cover for them.

 

[MikeKing]

It's not like he cannot or doesn't defend its just not a big part of his game and isn't his focus. He still won more duels than kante, had a higher rate of successful tackles, won more ariel duels, higher number of blocked shots and a similar number of recovery tackles. It shows he is doing it but its just not his main focus. Of course over time he will improve but really he is doing his part.

There are many midfield great who cannot defend. Zidane, iniesta, scholes etc not defensively great but had players next to them who carried the defensive burden to cover for them.

I get what you are saying, I don't think he is terrible at it actually and he is doing it sometimes, but mostly it is when he feels like it. Most of the time it is half hearted which is not a necessary evil to conserve energy like some players, he just doesn't care. If he makes a mistake and we concede he'll probably blames the team before himself, or himself so much that he sort of sulks around the rest of the game. He is not that far off in my opinion either, and when he tries I don't care if he makes a mistake, but he just isn't there yet mentally and he needs to get there, imo.

 

[mancan92]

I get what you are saying, I don't think he is terrible at it actually and he is doing it sometimes, but mostly it is when he feels like it. Most of the time it is half hearted which is not a necessary evil to conserve energy like some players, he just doesn't care. If he makes a mistake and we concede he'll probably blames the team before himself, or himself so much that he sort of sulks around the rest of the game. He is not that far off in my opinion either, and when he tries I don't care if he makes a mistake, but he just isn't there yet mentally and he needs to get there, imo.

Mentally I agree he isn't quite at the top level yet. But give him a functioning team and I believe we see a more rounded player as he won't have to focus on soo much and can just play his natural game.

He has been successful in every other team he has played in. So I don't see any reason why if we built a decent one here he won't also be great.

 

[MikeKing]

Mentally I agree he isn't quite at the top level yet. But give him a functioning team and I believe we see a more rounded player as he won't have to focus on soo much and can just play his natural game.

He has been successful in every other team he has played in. So I don't see any reason why if we built a decent one here he won't also be great.

We'll see this season if he gets all high and mighty or if he takes it one step further. This season we will surely see more of a modern system and playing style than what we had under the three previous managers. That should realistically make the team look better as a unit and thats a platform where Pogba should play his natural game indeed, but if he don't want to participate to the tasks he is given what can you do.

 

[Raven]

As I said can you think of another top player who has been consistently good in an otherwise poor or disfunctional team?

It’s not lazy if it’s a consistent theme across multiple sports,eras etc

All sports and eras. It's not like Messi has ever achieved anything in a less good team than Barca. The best players play in the best teams, because the best teams win trophies.

 

[mancan92]

All sports and eras. It's not like Messi has ever achieved anything in a less good team than Barca. The best players play in the best teams, because the best teams win trophies.

That's my point. put Messi in Argentina and he becomes inconsistent and lazy.

Surround him by top class at barca and the consistency happens.

 

[mancan92]

We'll see this season if he gets all high and mighty or if he takes it one step further. This season we will surely see more of a modern system and playing style than what we had under the three previous managers. That should realistically make the team look better as a unit and thats a platform where Pogba should play his natural game indeed, but if he don't want to participate to the tasks he is given what can you do.

Yeah 100% agree. We have to hope. He can see himself being successful.

 

[RedRonaldo]

To be fair, even Messi looks poor when playing for dysfunctional Argentina team. So can’t blame everything on Pogba. But of course, Pogba does have attitude problem and sometimes he sulks too, he should take half the blame too.

 

[Raven]

Oh the excuses, always the excuses. Gerrard was also a midfielder. Pogba doesn't elevate the team.

Gerrard played in a team including Mascherano and Xabi Alonso when they had their only success. That's a world class midfield. Stop talking shite.

 

[Raven]

That's my point. put Messi in Argentina and he becomes inconsistent and lazy.

Surround him by top class at barca and the consistency happens.

I'm in almost total agreement with you. This isn't basketball, Pogba is one of 11 players, no one man can make up for the other 10 (realistically more like 6 or 7). It's not possible.

 

[kouroux]

When they won the CL? It's not as if we don't have other good players mate. You come off as a real fan boy. Pogba has been for the most part poor and inconsistent. He has never been our best player, or most important because he can't be relied upon. When teams press us, it's like playing with a man less.

That team also had Xabi Alonso who played a very good CL campaign.
Pogba isn't blameless and there are many games where I felt he could do more but at the same time, he's the player with the biggest expectation on his shoulder in the history of Man United I feel. I don't remember anybody getting scrutinized the same.

 

[Kush]

That team also had Xabi Alonso who played a very good CL campaign.
Pogba isn't blameless and there are many games where I felt he could do more but at the same time, he's the player with the biggest expectation on his shoulder in the history of Man United I feel. I don't remember anybody getting scrutinized the same.

Well said, there's a reason why likes of Real/Juve are sniffing around Pogba while we'd be lucky if PL mid-table fodder were interested in rest of the junk we have accumulated in midfield. We need to surround Pogba with players closer to his own level but given how slow we've been in the market I'm not holding my breath.

 

[kouroux]

Well said, there's a reason why likes of Real/Juve are sniffing around Pogba while we'd be lucky if PL mid-table fodder were interested in rest of the junk we have accumulated in midfield. We need to surround Pogba with players closer to his own level but given how slow we've been in the market I'm not holding my breath.

The idea is just about judging players fairly in an era where "black and white" answers are searched for.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Pogba has played as a number 10 and struggled with the press and less time on the ball. He needs space in front of him to produce something and he'll only ever get that against weaker opposition or generally when playing a bit deeper.

If he is playing in midfield and not as a number 10 he needs to use his abilities in more facets than what you seem to propose. He has a lot of qualities and he can use them if he applies himself. If he is poor at those things, he needs to fix them like all other players do, if he is to truly evolve. He can run the hype machine too, but that doesn't really mean he actually fulfilled his potential. Kante isn't an attacker but the reason he actually was played higher up the pitch was because he applied himself when asked to do a task higher up the field, and he wasn't directly poor either, just not his expertise. That is what we need Pogba to do, just be acceptable defensively if he is going to play as an 8, imo.

This is just Pogba unfortunately, he has these moments where it either pays off and he looks great, or it flops and he looks bad.

Yes it would be nice if he kept it simple but that's just his personality - fact is though he does way more good than bad. I'll take that any day of the week over somebody who's just a sideways clogger like Cleverley etc.

In the situation you're mentioning Mctominay actually had the guy covered so there wasn't a huge need for him to sprint over, but I get your point.

He is noticeably sprinting back quicker when defending which is a bonus, he's definitely trying unlike some people think. Whether that will last though we shall see.

 

[Adnan]

Our best player in both games easily.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[el3mel]

Great game. The skill he did in the second half was great.

 

[Godfather]

Yeah we can't let him go. Simple as.