[DWelbz19]

Dunno why Pogba is expected to be a major goal threat, when his role in the team right now is of a deep lying playmaker. If you criticise him in this role like say of his passing needs to be more secure, or his ability to control the tempo of the game, these are valid constructive criticisms(not saying they are justified). But why would you criticise him for lack of goals, when other players who have the same role dont its unfair. Do the likes of Kroos/Veratti/Xavi/Scholes(in his later days) or any other centre mid/#8 get judged on their ability to score goals? No. Its absurd.

When Pogba was given a free role and was scoring/assisting for fun, people criticised him for not playing a more box to box role and controlling the game with his passing ability. When he is given a more restrained/deeper role, he is criticised for not scoring/assisting.

People expect him to be a #8 and a #10 at once(because of his versatile skillset and pricetag) and its very very unfair. You cant expect him to control the game like Alonso and also be a goal scorer like Gerrard. Right now Bruno has the #10 role where his job is to be creative and be a goal threat, while Pogba is expected to sit deep, circulate the ball, and link the defence with the attack. He is doing a good job.

You're spot on -- but I mean, it's blatantly obvious why, isn't it?

 

[sammsky1]

And how many of the other 80% had him in their top 3?

I dont know, but that wouldn't help classifying him as 'possibly the best on the pitch'

 

[Withnail]

I would indeed. And as I keep saying, he’s not even come close to scoring in recent weeks.

Even if that came at the cost of a lot of low percentage potshots and took away from the performance of the team?

 

[Rozay]

I dont know, but that wouldn't help classifying him as 'possibly the best on the pitch'

Yes it would. Well I don’t know who was first. You could get a 5th of the votes and still be first, and if the rest had him in their top 3, then it tells a story too.

Besides, my comment was not based upon Redcafe’s thread. This place may as well be RAWK when it comes to Pogba, in the main. Most journalists reports I read said he was brilliant.

 

[Rozay]

I would indeed. And as I keep saying, he’s not even come close to scoring in recent weeks.

Again sir, how many open play goals has our #10 scored in his 25 games, and do you have a problem with it.

 

[Focusmate]

Very very talented guy but the bar was set so high for him with him a being world record transfer etc that for most fans he doesnt meet expectations when performing on a par with the rest of the team.
I personally think he will be motivated and play well next season after which he will move on or sign a new contract.
I also think he grinds the gears of as many United supporters as those who really love him. The whole Raiola/Pogba wanting out saga didnt help, as well as off field flashiness without the onfield world class effort and performance.
Even now wanting out is a bit of a negative on fans feelings for Rooney even though he did end up with the new contract

 

[sammsky1]

Yes it would. Well I don’t know who was first. You could get a 5th of the votes and still be first, and if the rest had him in their top 3, then it tells a story too.
Besides, my comment was not based upon Redcafe’s thread. This place may as well be RAWK when it comes to Pogba, in the main. Most journalists reports I read said he was brilliant.

so basically you'll create or search for any evidence that only supports your narrative. Heard of confirmation bias? Glad we have established that.
Anyway, now lets carry on.

 

[Rozay]

so basically you'll create or search for any evidence that only supports your narrative. Heard of confirmation bias? Glad we have established that.
Anyway, now lets carry on.

There is no ‘basically’ - I said what I said, and didn’t say what I didn’t say. Which includes what you just said.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When Pogba was given a free role and was scoring/assisting for fun, people criticised him for not playing a more box to box role and controlling the game with his passing ability. When he is given a more restrained/deeper role, he is criticised for not scoring/assisting.

Could you aid my failing memory and give me a bit more details about this golden era? When was it?

 

[CG1010]

Can anyone furiously defending Pogba remind me the last time he came close to scoring a goal? Shouldn’t a player who is so tall, physically imposing and skilful (and who clearly isn’t in the team for his work rate and defending!) be a regular goal threat? Compare and contrast with Bruno who works the keeper in every game he plays. Feck it, even Fred seemed to have more efforts at goal against Sevilla.

The fact Pogba’s been such an impotent goal threat for so much of his United career is just another piece in the Pogba puzzle. A player who consistently fails to deliver what we want/expect from him based on his obvious talents.

Maybe for this season, but he has scored quite a few in prior seasons. He got 13 PL goals last season which is quite adequate for a midfielder. Post-Bruno, he has been playing farther away from opposition goal and the central areas have been extremely cramped with our front four all liking to attack centrally. If we get a RW and an attacking FB, spaces should open up for him to make atleast 2-3 runs into the box and 1-2 shots from outside per game as he is more than capable of scoring a few.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Even if that came at the cost of a lot of low percentage potshots and took away from the performance of the team?

It’s not an either/or situation. I would like him to pose more of a goal threat. This is possible without creating problems for the team.

 

[Jeppers7]

He played around 1200 mins which is around 13 games. He has 4 goal contributions which is 1 goals in every 3 game for a CM and that's not good enough?

Ridiculous statement is judging CM on goals, especially the double pivot ones who plays deeper role.

Funny how Pogba contributed so many goals in last 2 seasons but criticism was on something else, now that he is playing deeper role, criticism is back to goals and assists for a CM.

Funny if you’d put assists to that poster last year he’d have played them down.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

First of all I'd take umbrage with a number of these:

00:18 (but not his fault): that pass went to his intended target who mis-controlled it.
00:48: He slipped, it happens
03:13 (just why?): Why did he take a shot? Are you for real?
03:54 (that's the long ball I menat) : The long ball where we retained possession?

You are nit-picking here and it's a bit ridiculous to be perfectly honest.

As @roonster09 has said he had a pass completion of 89% and could have had two or three assists so I'm not really sure why you're obsessed with the moments when things don't come off.

If you go back through the match and count up all the times he successfully dribbles, gets himself out of trouble or finds team-mates with his passes and take the 8 or 9 (revised down as you are being overly harsh imo) as a percentage of that figure you'll probably find your answer as to why he doesn't seem bothered by the ones that don't come off.

He's more than likely encouraged by the manager and coaches to be brave and keep trying things as he is capable of moments of magic and that's what creates goals.

If he always 'kept it simple' and passed to a nearby teammate and ended up with a pass completion of 100%, there'd be no point in him being on the pitch.

I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember Paul Scholes playing but he regularly had pass completion very close to 100% and I don’t think anyone ever accused him of being pointless on this basis.

 

[Jeppers7]

But that isn’t ‘end of’ for you though. The complaint is usually a different one every game. Like, take Sevilla, for example. What is your specific issue for this game?

He played well. We shouldn’t be having this debate at all. The fact that we are is why he will appear, over time, to be inconsistent and not playing well for you. We struggle to even ‘give him’ this game, where he was probably the best player on the pitch. Of course he will never be good enough, over time.

It’s about perspective and narrative. You said Bruno is what you want from Pogba. Pogba would not have gotten away with a large majority of his performances. You are okay with Bruno turning over possession. You have repeatedly brought up goal stats. Bruno has scored from open play in two games since he’s been here, and played as almost a second striker. I’m not having a go at him. I am also happy with how he’s played, but my point is, it’s easier to be happy when everything is viewed through a certain prism. Poor passes are recognised as part of the game etc. Poor shots are part of the game. I promise you that if you choose to apply a similar prism to Pogba, you would be a lot happier than him. Because passing, dribbling etc - he gets a lot more of it right than he gets wrong. It’s just always ‘yea but. What DIDN’T he do?’ And that’s even on a good game. So when there’s an opportunity to talk about something he DID do wrong, it will of course never be missed.

There’s a way the you could look at Bruno over the past month as being close to pathetic.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Obviously we all have our own views on him and even as a big critic of his I still think he's in our top 4/5 players purely because he does have so much ability even if he doesn't show as much as he should. And for what it's worth I don't think his brother and agent have done him any favours whatsoever with our club and fans. They are part of 'Brand Pogba' though so you have to take it for what it is. Fergie was right about that "s***bag" of an agent.

But nobody can honestly say he's been a successful signing for us and not prepared to have that challenged. For what we paid and what we've had back he's been ultimately very underwhelming. The talent is there but for whatever reason we don't see it enough. Take the game against Sevilla. First half he was really poor I thought and got caught out on the ball several times. Second half he comes out a different player and was arguably our best player in that half. That's Paul Pogba in a nutshell.

Let's hope he can kick on finally next season and become this world class player he supposedly is and show some real consistency. However my opinion is we'll still be having these same discussions next year and so will all the pundits. Talented player but will remain and enigma and inconsistent.

 

[Highfather_24]

This is the kind of nonsense that creates allegations of fanboys. Even in redcafe, only 19% of those who voted, thought he was our MOTM vs Seville.
Anyway, now let’s continue.

Ehh, he was MOM in whoscored ratings as well. Its not a very outrageous claim tbh.

Could you aid my failing memory and give me a bit more details about this golden era? When was it?

I was speaking of the period when Ole first joined, and Pogba was our best player followed by Rashford and Martial. And also yes, his performance went down in the later part of the season(along with the rest of the team).

 

[Jeppers7]

Ok, since that goal in July we’ve played eight games of football. Can you remind me of a single incident in those eight games where Pogba came close to scoring? I’ve asked this a few times but nobody seems able to answer. Which speaks volumes. We had 26 shots on goal against Copenhagen ffs. How many came from Pogba?!

I’m not expecting him to score a goal every 2 or 3 games but I do think he should be a hell of a lot more of an attacking threat than he has been so far and I’m genuinely at a loss as to why. As a young player his long range shooting was a real feature of his game. But it hasn’t improved at all. The opposite, if anything. It’s got to the stage where Id be more hopeful of McTominay scoring in any given gam than I would be of Pogba doing the same. Which is nuts.

Fecking hell....this guy is a complete hypocrite. Someone remind him how many goals Carrick scored for us.

 

[Withnail]

I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember Paul Scholes playing but he regularly had pass completion very close to 100% and I don’t think anyone ever accused him of being pointless on this basis.

Yeah I'm well old enough for that, unfortunately

To be fair that wasn't the point being made and I wasn't saying that a higher pass completion wasn't a good thing.

The poster I was replying to was putting forward the idea that Pogba should have taken the safer option and kept it simple by passing back to the CB rather than attempting to turn and move the ball forward or by attempting risky passes, for example.

I was making the point that he could be more risk-averse to ensure he never gave the ball away but what would be the point.

I wasn't in any way saying a high % pass completion was a bad thing in and of itself.

 

[Withnail]

It’s not an either/or situation. I would like him to pose more of a goal threat. This is possible without creating problems for the team.

There's always going to be give and take. The team have created enough chances to win pretty much every game they've played this year, with Pogba carrying out the role he currently is, so I still don't see the issue, I'm afraid.

You want him to score more goals. Fair enough.

 

[Rozay]

Obviously we all have our own views on him and even as a big critic of his I still think he's in our top 4/5 players purely because he does have so much ability even if he doesn't show as much as he should. And for what it's worth I don't think his brother and agent have done him any favours whatsoever with our club and fans. They are part of 'Brand Pogba' though so you have to take it for what it is. Fergie was right about that "s***bag" of an agent.

But nobody can honestly say he's been a successful signing for us and not prepared to have that challenged. For what we paid and what we've had back he's been ultimately very underwhelming. The talent is there but for whatever reason we don't see it enough. Take the game against Sevilla. First half he was really poor I thought and got caught out on the ball several times. Second half he comes out a different player and was arguably our best player in that half. That's Paul Pogba in a nutshell.

Let's hope he can kick on finally next season and become this world class player he supposedly is and show some real consistency. However my opinion is we'll still be having these same discussions next year and so will all the pundits. Talented player but will remain and enigma and inconsistent.

I think your comment isn’t unreasonable. But I do also think a lot is about perspective and narrative. For example, Bruno is unanimously a successful signing. If his narrative was different, there is just as much, if not more scope to nitpick at his game if we so choose to look for faults. His passing has been wayward and sloppy, he’s scored goals from penalties almost exclusively, but has been heralded as a success - more so than Pogba. Meanwhile, we will count anytime Pogba is tackled/misplaced a pass, last time he scored etc. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that we SHOULD micro-analyse Bruno’s game. That’s not how football works for me. My issue is that he is seen as unanimously playing well because we have clearly decided, that we don’t care about the small details the same way we have decided that we are going to care about them with Pogba. Pogba naturally looks worse.

You even said above - ‘he lost the ball a few times in the first half’, in a game where most people would say he had a good game. You are not lying. He DID lose the ball a few times in the first half. My issue is the disparity in the analysis. If these are the things that cause performances over time to be called into question, then I think it is fair for me to say that so many other players who are being praised for their performances could also have theirs called into question, if only we decided to analyse the detail in the same way. The same was happening with McTominay earlier in the season. I argued with many a poster on here who simply was not interested in the detail. We just liked him. And when you like him, we don’t care about him giving the ball away. I used to question it at the time. He was giving the ball away far more than Pogba, yet Pogba - who is a fantastic passer, is constantly portrayed as someone who can’t be trusted with the ball. I can bet every penny I have that if, miraculously, Scott McTominay woke up tomorrow and started playing exactly like Pogba does - he would be greatly heralded. And in that heralding, everything that Pogba is good at would be magnified and praised. Great dribbling, passing range etc. The odd loss of possession would be seen as part of the game. I’m confident in this because, I’ve witnessed players who lose the ball more often than Pogba mot profiled as ‘sloppy’.

You may say others aren’t called out for their own sloppiness because apparently, they have positive contributions and Pogba apparently doesn’t. As I’ve pointed out before - Pogba and De Bruyne have almost identical goals per games records in the PL. Some of De Bruyne’s goals have also been penalties, for the record. People speak about ‘consistency’. Perhaps there is something in that. But I feel, under the prism of which he is exclusively analysed, he will obviously never be consistent. It’s impossible. He’s always going to be ‘sloppy’ - because he will always lose possession of the football. My only point is, so will others, maybe even more so, without earning the tag. If you won’t analyse them by the same metrics, Pogba will never be their equal. He would need to do twice as much and have some of the best games ever seen to get a ‘okay, fair enough, I’ll give him this game’.

The things you mentioned about agents and brothers are, amongst other things, sort of at the root of the issue for me. There are loads more I’ve read. ‘Wants to be the centre of attention’, ‘thinks he’s bigger than the club’ which if I asked people to qualify, they would struggle. It’s just a feeling, and a feeling that causes, in my opinion, everyone to watch his game kick by kick from the perspective of ‘go on, justify why you think you’re so special then’. He’s never said this. He’s just a footballer.

Now I have concerns, much of which O have voiced in tactical discussion in the United forum. My biggest is defensive. To the point where I have said in the latest ‘should we sell Pogba’ thread that I wouldn’t dismiss the validity of the question. He and Bruno in a midfield doesn’t offer enough protection, and in the double pivot role he is playing, we could perhaps be better off with what I’d consider a specialist in that role. What I won’t accept is all the ‘he’s so sloppy, careless on the ball’ or anything like that, because by any objective metric - if he is, then so are many other players who for some reason, people have decided they are not concerned about.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There's always going to be give and take. The team have created enough chances to win pretty much every game they've played this year, with Pogba carrying out the role he currently is, so I still don't see the issue, I'm afraid.

You want him to score more goals. Fair enough.

To be honest, it’s not that big an issue. It’s certainly far from the biggest issue! It’s just something that occurred to me recently. He’s primarily in the team for what he brings to our attacking football, so I found it interesting how I couldn’t remember any examples of him even coming close to scoring in the last half dozen games or so.

 

[Born2Lose]

He's marketed as one of the best footballers in the world, but his performances rarely measure up.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I think your comment isn’t unreasonable. But I do also think a lot is about perspective and narrative. For example, Bruno is unanimously a successful signing. If his narrative was different, there is just as much, if not more scope to nitpick at his game if we so choose to look for faults. His passing has been wayward and sloppy, he’s scored goals from penalties almost exclusively, but has been heralded as a success - more so than Pogba. Meanwhile, we will count anytime Pogba is tackled/misplaced a pass, last time he scored etc. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that we SHOULD micro-analyse Bruno’s game. That’s not how football works for me. My issue is that he is seen as unanimously playing well because we have clearly decided, that we don’t care about the small details the same way we have decided that we are going to care about them with Pogba. Pogba naturally looks worse.

You even said above - ‘he lost the ball a few times in the first half’, in a game where most people would say he had a good game. You are not lying. He DID lose the ball a few times in the first half. My issue is the disparity in the analysis. If these are the things that cause performances over time to be called into question, then I think it is fair for me to say that so many other players who are being praised for their performances could also have theirs called into question, if only we decided to analyse the detail in the same way. The same was happening with McTominay earlier in the season. I argued with many a poster on here who simply was not interested in the detail. We just liked him. And when you like him, we don’t care about him giving the ball away. I used to question it at the time. He was giving the ball away far more than Pogba, yet Pogba - who is a fantastic passer, is constantly portrayed as someone who can’t be trusted with the ball. I can bet every penny I have that if, miraculously, Scott McTominay woke up tomorrow and started playing exactly like Pogba does - he would be greatly heralded. And in that heralding, everything that Pogba is good at would be magnified and praised. Great dribbling, passing range etc. The odd loss of possession would be seen as part of the game. I’m confident in this because, I’ve witnessed players who lose the ball more often than Pogba mot profiled as ‘sloppy’.

You may say others aren’t called out for their own sloppiness because apparently, they have positive contributions and Pogba apparently doesn’t. As I’ve pointed out before - Pogba and De Bruyne have almost identical goals per games records in the PL. Some of De Bruyne’s goals have also been penalties, for the record. People speak about ‘consistency’. Perhaps there is something in that. But I feel, under the prism of which he is exclusively analysed, he will obviously never be consistent. It’s impossible. He’s always going to be ‘sloppy’ - because he will always lose possession of the football. My only point is, so will others, maybe even more so, without earning the tag. If you won’t analyse them by the same metrics, Pogba will never be their equal. He would need to do twice as much and have some of the best games ever seen to get a ‘okay, fair enough, I’ll give him this game’.

The things you mentioned about agents and brothers are, amongst other things, sort of at the root of the issue for me. There are loads more I’ve read. ‘Wants to be the centre of attention’, ‘thinks he’s bigger than the club’ which if I asked people to qualify, they would struggle. It’s just a feeling, and a feeling that causes, in my opinion, everyone to watch his game kick by kick from the perspective of ‘go on, justify why you think you’re so special then’. He’s never said this. He’s just a footballer.

Now I have concerns, much of which O have voiced in tactical discussion in the United forum. My biggest is defensive. To the point where I have said in the latest ‘should we sell Pogba’ thread that I wouldn’t dismiss the validity of the question. He and Bruno in a midfield doesn’t offer enough protection, and in the double pivot role he is playing, we could perhaps be better off with what I’d consider a specialist in that role. What I won’t accept is all the ‘he’s so sloppy, careless on the ball’ or anything like that, because by any objective metric - if he is, then so are many other players who for some reason, people have decided they are not concerned about.

Bruno has scored a lot of penalties, you're right. Guess who scored loads of them last season......Pogba. But he ended the season being 'attacked' by one of our fans (which was clearly wrong) after a dreadful last few months of the season where he basically looked like he simply didn't care and wanted out. The day it happened he just happen to make a dreadful mistake too which cost us any chance of the CL. Fans don't take well to stuff like that.

This isn't something I can't ever seen being an issue with Bruno. He looks like he cares more than the others combined at times. He's been a revelation since he joined and it's not just his penalties which you seem to be inferring a little. His energy, commitment and will to win is right up there with the best I have seen play at United even if his ability might not be in some people's eyes. That's a real Manchester United player right there and that is ultimately why the narrative is different with him and more fans have taken to him.

And even I think Pogba has as much ability as Bruno. But he will never be that same player because he does drift in and out of games and appears to be not particularly interested in some games even if he is. That's who he is. He's just an enigma.

 

[Adam-Utd]

People moaned he did the flashy stuff, scored goals but didn't work hard or care about the team.

Now he's busting his ass winning tackles, dictating play and setting up chances from deep and they're saying "why doesn't he score also"

people will be never happy.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

People moaned he did the flashy stuff, scored goals but didn't work hard or care about the team.

Now he's busting his ass winning tackles, dictating play and setting up chances from deep and they're saying "why doesn't he score also"

people will be never happy.

You’re the second person to allude to him being prolific at some point in the past. Penalties aside, when did he ever score regularly for us?

 

[Andycoleno9]

We need to offer him new contract. Again we are waiting too long with that

 

[Rozay]

Bruno has scored a lot of penalties, you're right. Guess who scored loads of them last season......Pogba. But he ended the season being 'attacked' by one of our fans (which was clearly wrong) after a dreadful last few months of the season where he basically looked like he simply didn't care and wanted out. The day it happened he just happen to make a dreadful mistake too which cost us any chance of the CL. Fans don't take well to stuff like that.

This isn't something I can't ever seen being an issue with Bruno. He looks like he cares more than the others combined at times. He's been a revelation since he joined and it's not just his penalties which you seem to be inferring a little. His energy, commitment and will to win is right up there with the best I have seen play at United even if his ability might not be in some people's eyes. That's a real Manchester United player right there and that is ultimately why the narrative is different with him and more fans have taken to him.

And even I think Pogba has as much ability as Bruno. But he will never be that same player because he does drift in and out of games and appears to be not particularly interested in some games even if he is. That's who he is. He's just an enigma.

I’m not implying Pogba didn’t score pens last season. My point was that, in open play, he has not demonstrated that he’s a better goalscorer than Pogba. Nor passer. Or dribbler. He’s more likeable to many, for reasons I understand, even if they don’t apply to me personally. This is my point though. Because we like him more, we have decided that we care less about his misplaced passing than we do about Pogba’s. Which is pretty much my point. Agents, brothers, hairstyles, dancing have all contributed to why Pogba is as bad a player as he seemingly is, whereas if we liked him more - he’d be a far better player. As a person, I don’t consider Pogba an ‘enigma’ at all. I don’t see him a ‘disinterested’ as people love to conclude he is. Everything I see of him off the field suggests he is a great bloke who loves football more than anything else he has going on.

I’m not one for the liking and disliking and I try my best to just say what I see. So when I look at a player’s game - be it passing, dribbling or whatever - I can easily spot, and say, that despite him being from the academy, local, passionate etc - he isn’t ‘better’ than this or that player. I can appreciate that stuff don’t get me wrong, but when talking about how good a player is - my personal opinion is that Pogba is under a different microscope because he is, for whatever reason, not the most liked person generally speaking.

It is very similar to how quickly people try to move players who are simply not as good as Neymar ahead of him when doing these player rankings. Ot doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of Neymar’s ‘antics’. Another player could be a good player and seemingly a ‘nicer guy’ - but he’s not a better player than Neymar. But the attitude and prism through which most people watch Neymar is likely to find faults and discredit/destroy this reputation he has a world class player - whereas if he were a more popular bloke, what he can actually do would be celebrated far more. The fact that it isn’t though, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, or Mr Popular down the road is doing it better than him.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I’m not implying Pogba didn’t score pens last season. My point was that, in open play, he has not demonstrated that he’s a better goalscorer than Pogba. Nor passer. Or dribbler. He’s more likeable to many, for reasons I understand, even if they don’t apply to me personally. This is my point though. Because we like him more, we have decided that we care less about his misplaced passing than we do about Pogba’s. Which is pretty much my point. Agents, brothers, hairstyles, dancing have all contributed to why Pogba is as bad a player as he seemingly is, whereas if we liked him more - he’d be a far better player. As a person, I don’t consider Pogba an ‘enigma’ at all. I don’t see him a ‘disinterested’ as people love to conclude he is. Everything I see of him off the field suggests he is a great bloke who loves football more than anything else he has going on.

I’m not one for the liking and disliking and I try my best to just say what I see. So when I look at a player’s game - be it passing, dribbling or whatever - I can easily spot, and say, that despite him being from the academy, local, passionate etc - he isn’t ‘better’ than this or that player. I can appreciate that stuff don’t get me wrong, but when talking about how good a player is - my personal opinion is that Pogba is under a different microscope because he is, for whatever reason, not the most liked person generally speaking.

It is very similar to how quickly people try to move players who are simply not as good as Neymar ahead of him when doing these player rankings. Ot doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of Neymar’s ‘antics’. Another player could be a good player and seemingly a ‘nicer guy’ - but he’s not a better player than Neymar. But the attitude and prism through which most people watch Neymar is likely to find faults and discredit/destroy this reputation he has a world class player - whereas if he were a more popular bloke, what he can actually do would be celebrated far more. The fact that it isn’t though, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, or Mr Popular down the road is doing it better than him.

But the issue isn't his ability. If this was a discussion about who has the most ability he's right up there for me. It's putting that ability to use and that's where he lets himself down.

He should be competing for Balon D'ors and FIFA team of the years etc with his ability but he barely makes the PL team of the year. In fact he's made that just once (last season) and even that raised eyebrows with many people. This is his 4th season at United and he's not even won club player or fans player of the year yet either has he? There must be a reason if he's so supremely talented.

Like i said I think he will always be a mystery. Amazing on his day, unplayable sometimes, but it just doesn't come around enough for me.

 

[Adam-Utd]

You’re the second person to allude to him being prolific at some point in the past. Penalties aside, when did he ever score regularly for us?

Give me a list of high scoring centre midfielders?

I assume you'd say Kroos and Modric were all good midfielders right? go check their goal output.

 

[JPRouve]

But the issue isn't his ability. If this was a discussion about who has the most ability he's right up there for me. It's putting that ability to use and that's where he lets himself down.

He should be competing for Balon D'ors and FIFA team of the years etc with his ability but he barely makes the PL team of the year. In fact he's made that just once (last season) and even that raised eyebrows with many people. This is his 4th season at United and he's not even won club player or fans player of the year yet either has he? There must be a reason if he's so supremely talented.

Like i said I think he will always be a mystery. Amazing on his day, unplayable sometimes, but it just doesn't come around enough for me.

That's not on him though and it never will even if he was very good and consistent. Deeper midfielders rarely compete for the Ballon D'Or, with two exceptions all time greats and during WC/Euro years and only when no attacker has a great tournament. As for FIFA team of the year it's a popularity contest and highly based on team success at the highest level which wasn't in Pogba's hands since he joined a club in transition that failed to build an elite team and hasn't had elite coaching either, so it's not surprising that Pogba only nomination in the FIFPro team was in 2015.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

That's not on him though and it never will even if he was very good and consistent. Deeper midfielders rarely compete for the Ballon D'Or, with two exceptions all time greats and during WC/Euro years and only when no attacker has a great tournament. As for FIFA team of the year it's a popularity contest and highly based on team success at the highest level which wasn't in Pogba's hands since he joined a club in transition that failed to build an elite team and hasn't had elite coaching either, so it's not surprising that Pogba only nomination in the FIFPro team was in 2015.

Fair enough......so why then if he's clearly the 'best player at the club' which is written often on here is he not even recognised by our own players and fans in the Man Utd season awards?

This is what I'm talking about. It doesn't add up. He's not winning those awards even at our own club because he's not performing as well as he can.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

I go hot and cold with Pogba sometimes, but you have to remember the night and day difference from that Spurs game when he came on as sub. We were a completely different team from that moment on. He makes mistakes and has bad games, but the quality he can bring in midfield is very hard to find.

 

[JPRouve]

Fair enough......so why then if he's clearly the 'best player at the club' which is written often on here is he not even recognised by our own players and fans in the Man Utd season awards?

This is what I'm talking about. It doesn't add up. He's not winning those awards even at our own club because he's not performing as well as he can.

I'm pretty sure that Pogba was seen has the best outfield player for the 2016-20019 period with De Gea being arguably the best player until 2018, so De Gea won that award every year. I believe that Shaw won the last one and while he had an excellent season it could have been Pogba because he was as good as Shaw until his injury in late October and was by far our best player from mid-December to the end of March. For some reason people forgot that Shaw's form deeped at the same time than Pogba from the end of October to Ole's appointment and his form deeped again after March like everyone else in the team. I'm glad that Shaw won it because his comeback was exceptional and I didn't like the toxicity the fanbase created around him but Pogba wasn't less deserving.

 

[Rozay]

But the issue isn't his ability. If this was a discussion about who has the most ability he's right up there for me. It's putting that ability to use and that's where he lets himself down.

He should be competing for Balon D'ors and FIFA team of the years etc with his ability but he barely makes the PL team of the year. In fact he's made that just once (last season) and even that raised eyebrows with many people. This is his 4th season at United and he's not even won club player or fans player of the year yet either has he? There must be a reason if he's so supremely talented.

Like i said I think he will always be a mystery. Amazing on his day, unplayable sometimes, but it just doesn't come around enough for me.

I know the issue isn’t his ability. From what I read, the ‘issue’ is his performance. To a degree, I think that is largely a matter of perception. Because as I said, another player could probably put in the same performances and be praised for them. I think a large part of the issue is the perception that he’s not doing the best that he could, and importantly - he’s not doing the best he could because he has little interest in doing the best that he could. His current performances, narrative aside, are better than almost any midfielder in England. That has been the case since he’s been here. But his own fans (well, his team’s fans) come out with stuff like ‘he plays well once every 10 games’ or whatever. The other midfielders around the league who are being deemed to be playing well in the meantime are not all playing as well as he is. He’s just followed by a cloud of ‘he should do more’. Assuming he never does any ‘more’, there still isn’t a bunch of better midfielders than him.

People making team of the year is a skewed metric anyway. There are always controversial choices, and a player from a team that is considered to be doing better is unlikely to make it. We finished second in the league yet nobody except our goalkeeper received praise, for example. It’s very hard to compete for major individual honours if your team is not winning. For that, he shares the responsibility.

Ultimately, to summarise - I think if people chose to look at the positives, they would see them, because they are there. If they also chose to focus on the negatives of other players that are unanimously praised, they would see them too, as they are they. The difference, in my opinion, is largely based on personal perception of the player. It’s why it’s so hard to get more than a ‘good for most of the second half, bit had a poor spell in the first’ for what would just be a ‘good game’ for others. The player and the performance is the same regardless. There’s a valid question, in my opinion, as to whether a person is watching with their nose turned up saying ‘pfftt’ - or watching to appreciate the quality he has, like I do.

When he was at Juventus, he didn’t simply decide to not lose possession. He did it there too. He’s probably a better player now than he was at Juve, but the narrative around him was different. He was the person who United screwed up with who had become great, and every good thing he did was used as a stick against us. He was unanimously rated as a top midfielder at Juve, yet in England, everyone has a problem. Same player.

 

[Remember the geese]

Fair enough......so why then if he's clearly the 'best player at the club' which is written often on here is he not even recognised by our own players and fans in the Man Utd season awards?

This is what I'm talking about. It doesn't add up. He's not winning those awards even at our own club because he's not performing as well as he can.

Why is your opinion so heavily influenced by some silly in-house awards? Mourinho devised an unofficial "Manager's Player of the Year award" and elected McTominay. How much importance do we place on these things?

 

[Volumiza]

He's marketed as one of the best footballers in the world, but his performances rarely measure up.

True. Saying that though I’ve appreciated his last few performances and would be more than happy if he signed a new contract and performed that way for the next few years. He still has a lot to prove though, hopefully he will do that here.

 

[AltiUn]

Fair enough......so why then if he's clearly the 'best player at the club' which is written often on here is he not even recognised by our own players and fans in the Man Utd season awards?

This is what I'm talking about. It doesn't add up. He's not winning those awards even at our own club because he's not performing as well as he can.

Can't comment on the players but as fans, maybe we value gutsiness over guile too much, we love a grafter on the Cafe, love a bit of Fred, McTominay and Herrera, there were a lot of people wondering could Pogba even get back into the first XI over McFred. Fernandes possesses both guts and guile so he's cemented himself as a United sweetheart. Pogba was undoubtably our best outfield player since he joined us up until this year, even this year that's likely due to him missing a huge chunk of the season, we missed him desperately before we finally signed Fernandes.

A lot of the more skillful players have been received less than warmly by United fans over these last few years, look no further than Martial, Pogba and, to a lesser extent, Shaw as recent examples. I still think a lot of the vitriol and toxicity around players like these three was created and then amplified by Mourinho, he turned a lot of people against them and to this day many have yet to fully forgive folk like Pogba, most don't even know what they're angry at him for in the first place, Mourinho just said we should be angry and disappointed in them and so many people were.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We need to offer him new contract. Again we are waiting too long with that

Completely agree, we should naile him asap. For as much as some people dont like him, the quality he has is undeniable.

 

[Volumiza]

Completely agree, we should naile him asap. For as much as some people dont like him, the quality he has is undeniable.

It will 100% be being worked on, surely we aren’t so stupid not to take advantage of the almost perfect conditions to get him to sign?

 

[JPRouve]

Can't comment on the players but as fans, maybe we value gutsiness over guile too much, we love a grafter on the Cafe, love a bit of Fred, McTominay and Herrera, there were a lot of people wondering could Pogba even get back into the first XI over McFred. Fernandes possesses both guts and guile so he's cemented himself as a United sweetheart. Pogba was undoubtably our best outfield player since he joined us up until this year, even this year that's likely due to him missing a huge chunk of the season, we missed him desperately before we finally signed Fernandes.

A lot of the more skillful players have been received less than warmly by United fans over these last few years, look no further than Martial, Pogba and, to a lesser extent, Shaw as recent examples. I still think a lot of the vitriol and toxicity around players like these three was created and then amplified by Mourinho, he turned a lot of people against them and to this day many have yet to fully forgive folk like Pogba, most don't even know what they're angry at him for in the first place, Mourinho just said we should be angry and disappointed in them and so many people were.

The funny thing is that so many fans claimed that Mourinho really cared about the club and that he was spot on, that these players didn't care. The same trio who were our best players in 2018/2019 until Mourinho sacking, the three players who were fighting when the rest of the team was completely defeated and gave Mourinho more time than he should have. I will never understand it, that's the three players that we should have backed that season because they are the one that resisted the most to the pressure of bad results. And then Ole comes and these players are still our best performers with Lingard, Herrera and Rashford joining them and people focused on the latter group while still lambasting the other one.