[RUCK4444]

Don't blame him for the handball, I have a massive issue with those decisions and the lack of common sense applied, but that's a different topic.

But I do think today is more evidence to indicate that Pogba is a fair-weather player. His head really drops when things aren't going well. Its a criticism you can level at a lot of our players honestly, but it's particular noticable with Pogba.

You can't use both your hands to protect your face from a ball that has travelled 30 yards before it get's to you whilst your standing in the penalty area.

I learnt that in junior school, judging by Pogba's reaction to the decision he did too. Stone wall pen, more so than ever before with VAR giving penalties for balls being blasted at players arms from less than a yard away.

I usually defend him but this one was a shocker, another goal absolutely gifted away and this was the worst of the lot.

 

[M16Red]

Again, it's not just him that's been poor for successive games now. There are a handful of players that have been massively off the boil. I can only really point to Martial and Greenwood who are consistently looking sharp. This tells me its likely a burnout problem, or something system related that Ole needs to work on. If it was an individual performance relative to peers that was dipping then it's one thing, but collective performances being below par is another.

Ole needs to work on this massively in pre-season. How to tactically beat a press and operate better from deep positions.

World-class midfielders picking up the ball from defence?

World-class midfielder driving through the midfield?

World-class midfielder creating angles to pass into?

World-class moving correctly into defensive positions?

Something like above would be good.

 

[The Original]

There is a few on the internet. Just Google it.

Incredible.

These are the only known comments Ferguson has ever made on Pogba:

1.

"We had Paul under a three-year contract, and it had a one-year renewal option which we were eager to sign. But Raiola suddenly appeared on the scene and our first meeting was a fiasco.

“He and I were like oil and water. From then on, our goose was cooked because Raiola had been able to ingratiate himself with Paul and his family and the player signed with Juventus.”


2.
"Paul Pogba? He had a bad agent. A s***bag,"

Bonus:

“La Pioche [Pogba] is like a son to me. Ferguson sent me to his house to convince him to stay. He cried, he couldn’t sleep. He knew he could become greater than [Patrick] Vieira, but he had decided. Ferguson also knew Pogba could become very strong, but he couldn’t force the issue.” Patrice Evra on Pogba’s decision to quit Man United for Juventus in 2012.

Why you feel the need to make things up is an authentic mystery.

 

[Suedesi]

Still looks like a player that doesn't want to be here. Came back after a long injury all fired up and ready to prove a point. Had a few good games, reminded the world that he's still a class player and then panned off again. Probably doesn't care too much if we don't get CL as us failing will make it easier for him to get his move. I've defended him all along but he really needs to leave.

Could be true. I'd put nothing past Raiola scheming up in the background.

 

[M16Red]

I wouldn't sell him, he's world class, all world class players have off days.

Was he stupid giving away the pen? Yes but he's not the only one to have been poor the past few games.

It comes down to not having the quality in squad depth to rest him and others. So we'll continue to get poor performances from players who have played 4 games in 10 days until we can rest them with adequate back up.

As above, his been on holiday most of the season.

Let's not move away from the thread title, his performances have been poor for the last 4 games now and really he's not suited to the position or the way we play.

Needs to take himself out of slowmo.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Don't agree with the Pogba screwed it for us today arguments, but anyone saying what Pogba did was natural thing to do is almost wumming.

Footballers are coached and coached to not lift hands in the box. Handballs happen when players try to jump higher and sometimes use hands. But putting up your hands while ducking is something that is basic and players who have been playing for so long are supposed to be better in controlling such instincts.

Anyways, he made a mistake. But we should have won even with that mistake.

 

[bosnian_red]

I wouldn't sell him, he's world class, all world class players have off days.

Was he stupid giving away the pen? Yes but he's not the only one to have been poor the past few games.

It comes down to not having the quality in squad depth to rest him and others. So we'll continue to get poor performances from players who have played 4 games in 10 days until we can rest them with adequate back up.

World class? De Bruyne is world class. Scholes and Beckham were world class. Pogba hasn't once played like a world class midfielder during his time at United, and at Juve he was still young and "potential". Bruno since he joined has been better than any half season period Pogba has had in his 4 seasons at the club. He's not a world class player. He has the talent to be one, but he doesn't have the intelligence/mentality of a world class midfielder.

 

[U99ted]

Was at least involved in the equaliser, hopefully he plays better on Sunday & the Europa.

 

[Okey]

I fear we're on the cusp of another massive mistake with the new contract rumours, a la DDG. It'll be a massive one and we'll get stuck with a player we can't move on. It takes more than talent to be a world class player and Pogba just doesn't have it consistently enough. Just look how quickly Bruno has surpassed him and has transformed our team, and few would argue he's more talented than Pogba. Just unfortunate this summer isn't the market for him, but a new contract with better terms might be bigger mistake than moving him on, even if cheaper than what it would normally be, and replacing him with 2 proper up tempo midfielders.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Silly mistake for the pen but played no worse than anybody else.

People are just scapegoating as usual. The team had 90 minutes to win the match and none of the players did anything apart from Greenwood and Martial.

Where was Rashford all match?

 

[emdee]

Overall, I thought he was okay (aside from the hb, obviously). I don't think his play today was night and day different than some of the games earlier he was being praised for. He wasn't creating scoring chances but that's not his current role. His distribution was sound and he was involved in the build up to the Greenwood goal. He did look to further play but often it looked like he didn't see anything available and kept it simple to retain possession - there were a few times where he was on the ball a bit too long actually looking for a forward option. He also made himself available in the box a few times in both halves but wasn't found (had a good scoring opportunity in the second half which Martial didn't see).

With all that said, if a midfield two is the plan moving forward then the fit remains questionable for both sides. He offers too much going forward to be that limited and imo the defensive output (and at times decision making) is not there for it to work for United consistently, especially considering Bruno's playstyle.

 

[sammsky1]

World-class midfielders picking up the ball from defence?

World-class midfielder driving through the midfield?

World-class midfielder creating angles to pass into?

World-class moving correctly into defensive positions?

Something like above would be good.

Not only is Pogba not contributing as his job description requires; his mistakes, lack of concentration and cowardice are directly shipping conceded goals and costing us such valuable points. Even Falcao or Sanchez didn’t do that.

If his fanboys weren’t so fanatically invested in him, they’d also put him on the deadwood list.

Nearly £1m per game this season. This situation can’t carry on. It’s becoming farcical.

 

[RUCK4444]

I'm not really sure what people expect of him, he's not playing as a striker or even a CAM or a position that can singlehandedly win the game for you.

Why then does he get hammered above all others when the entire team was poor tonight? Of course giving away the penalty tonight was a shocker but it's same whenever the collective team form dips, he's the main scapegoat.

For just one of many possible examples; why aren't we here talking about Matic reverting to the slow motion geriatric version of himself that he morphs into a couple of times every season? Rashford was anonymous tonight. The past couple of games has been a collective sh*t fest.

People need to stop using him as their emotional punch bag everytime we drop points. Did he play shite tonight? Yes. Did everybody? Yes.

The worst he's guilty of is letting his own form dip when those around him do, he without doubt looks a completely different player when the squad is in form and flying... but isn't that the same for almost every player?

 

[Obiorahking_]

World class? De Bruyne is world class. Scholes and Beckham were world class. Pogba hasn't once played like a world class midfielder during his time at United, and at Juve he was still young and "potential". Bruno since he joined has been better than any half season period Pogba has had in his 4 seasons at the club. He's not a world class player. He has the talent to be one, but he doesn't have the intelligence/mentality of a world class midfielder.

What? This is ridiculous. He was very good in his first two seasons here and even last season under a manager that was literally out to get him he had the most productive season in his entire career. Their arn't many CM's I'd take over him tbf.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm not really sure what people expect of him, he's not playing as a striker or even a CAM or a position that can singlehandedly win the game for you.

Why then does he get hammered above all others when the entire team was poor tonight? Of course giving away the penalty tonight was a shocker but it's same whenever the collective team form dips, he's the main scapegoat.

For just one of many possible examples; why aren't we here talking about Matic reverting to the slow motion geriatric version of himself that he morphs into a couple of times every season? The past couple of games has been a collective sh*t fest.

People need to stop using him as their emotional punch bag everytime we drop points. Did he play shite tonight? Yes. Did everybody? Yes.

The worst he's guilty of is letting his own form dip when those around him do, he without doubt looks a completely different player when the squad is in form and flying... but isn't that the same for almost every player?

That would be because this thread is about Paul Pogba.

If you want to pump your veins full of people shitting on Matic keep an eye out for the thread with his name on the top. You’ll enjoy it.

 

[bosnian_red]

Silly mistake for the pen but played no worse than anybody else.

People are just scapegoating as usual. The team had 90 minutes to win the match and none of the players did anything apart from Greenwood and Martial.

Where was Rashford all match?

Trying to turn this on a different player who had an off day? Rashford isn't the issue. He had a shit game today, sure. But he was the reason we beat Palace a week ago. He was arguably our player of the season until he got a stress fracture in his back because he played through every knock, every injury, and put his body on the line for the club to help push us forward (and played terrifically most of the season). Put his body on the line, what Pogba was too much of a coward to do today. Embarrassing to even try to bring him into this thread as a defence on Pogba. There's no excuse for Pogba's performances and attitude and it's laughable to defend that garbage we saw from him today.

 

[JJ12]

Pogba is very ‘meh’ these days - unfortunate for both him and us that he won’t be sold on this season.

 

[bosnian_red]

What? This is ridiculous. He was very good in his first two seasons here and even last season under a manager that was literally out to get him he had the most productive season in his entire career. Their arn't many CM's I'd take over him tbf.

He was good in his first season with Ibra there to motivate everyone. Then Ibra left and again, Pogba had a decent season but there was constant shit going on, losses of form, Mourinho would drop him than bring him back in, and constant drama. 18/19 Pogba was non-existent the first half, Mourinho a big part of the problem but Pogba didn't help himself. Then he left, Pogba had a very good 2-3 months, and then went back to doing pretty much nothing as we bottled the CL. This season he showed 0 commitment to the club, had a lot of injury problems (whatever the reason for them), and since he's come back hasn't exactly lit the place on fire.

Yeah, on form, he is a very good player. He is most definitely not a world class player. You need consistency for that, and even then, he's never had an extended period where he's played like a world class midfielder. His hype because of his highlight moments and his reputation far outweighs his actual performances.

 

[RUCK4444]

That would be because this thread is about Paul Pogba.

If you want to pump your veins full of people shitting on Matic keep an eye out for the thread with his name on the top. You’ll enjoy it.

You get the sentiment. I think it’s fair to say Pogba’s name is dragged through the mud far more than any other.

It’s tedious.

 

[Coops73]

Poor. I try to get invested but I’m struggling.

 

[redshaw]

I fear we're on the cusp of another massive mistake with the new contract rumours, a la DDG. It'll be a massive one and we'll get stuck with a player we can't move on. It takes more than talent to be a world class player and Pogba just doesn't have it consistently enough. Just look how quickly Bruno has surpassed him and has transformed our team, and few would argue he's more talented than Pogba. Just unfortunate this summer isn't the market for him, but a new contract with better terms might be bigger mistake than moving him on, even if cheaper than what it would normally be, and replacing him with 2 proper up tempo midfielders.

It is a concern, to have two highly paid players going through the motions but I don't think Paul or his agent will allow themselves to be stuck at United if they do sign and probably have some clause in there if the market or interest picks up from other clubs and United is still struggling to make top 4-6.

 

[bosnian_red]

You get the sentiment. I think it’s fair to say Pogba’s name is dragged through the mud far more than any other.

It’s tedious.

Probably because he has the reputation of someone who "is one of the best in the world", is somebody who has clearly been looking to leave for a bit now, thinking he can do better, etc. Someone on huge wages and was a world record fee at the time who has a shit fitness record, is shit when the going gets tough and definitely wilts under pressure. He's someone that there are constant rumors about leaving because we've struggled the past few years, him and his agent do nothing to dispel them, but on the pitch he doesn't even stand out more often than not as looking clearly better than others. Sure, he has some very good performances. But far too often he just disappoints and doesn't even play to a level that any other club would want to buy him. He doesn't seem to get that to get others like Madrid or Barca to go for him, he has to at least first prove that he's good enough for that. He hasn't done that.

 

[Infra-red]

He was awful, but not significantly more so than much of the rest of the team. That doesn't get him off the hook though - he doesn't have the excuse of being tired, after a season with his feet up, and he's *supposed* to be world class. That penalty as well - deary me, you're a professional football player ffs, you take that on your head.

 

[Red00012]

I’m not so sure why he plays so deep and we’re chasing a goal 2nd half

 

[abkmufc92]

We should sell him, playing him in two man midfield doesn't suit us.

He may be a very creative player but he is a complete liability for us when defending and we have to defend a lot since we are awful at keeping the ball.

Even if we have a more mobile DM and Bruno dropping back it won't change much.

Giving him a new contract will be a very big mistake for us, should just trigger the extra year and find a buyer for him.

 

[noodlehair]

Silly mistake for the pen but played no worse than anybody else.

People are just scapegoating as usual. The team had 90 minutes to win the match and none of the players did anything apart from Greenwood and Martial.

Where was Rashford all match?

It's not scapegoating. He's literally cost us the game by being an unprofessional idiot.

He might have been no worse than some of the others but he was certainly no better than anyone else either, and after that shite he pulled for the penalty he bloody well should have been. That was genuinely shameful. If he pulled that at most top teams he'd be lucky not to get a smack in the face from someone at half time.

 

[Obiorahking_]

He was good in his first season with Ibra there to motivate everyone. Then Ibra left and again, Pogba had a decent season but there was constant shit going on, losses of form, Mourinho would drop him than bring him back in, and constant drama. 18/19 Pogba was non-existent the first half, Mourinho a big part of the problem but Pogba didn't help himself. Then he left, Pogba had a very good 2-3 months, and then went back to doing pretty much nothing as we bottled the CL. This season he showed 0 commitment to the club, had a lot of injury problems (whatever the reason for them), and since he's come back hasn't exactly lit the place on fire.

Yeah, on form, he is a very good player. He is most definitely not a world class player. You need consistency for that, and even then, he's never had an extended period where he's played like a world class midfielder. His hype because of his highlight moments and his reputation far outweighs his actual performances.

He was very good with Ibra to motivate everyone...or maybe he was a damn good player who was the creative outlet that we'd been screaming for. Its hard to judge him under Mourinho because its hard to imagine playing under a manager that publicly labels you as a "virus"(yeah I know his form wasn't great). Nevertheless, he still produced and was a big factor in the successes we've gained over the years no matter how small. I think now its time for him to put up or shut up with the backing of the manger going into next season( assuming he's healthy).

I will agree that his statements to the press and have been very reprehensible and is grounds alone for moving on, but based on performances I can't name 10 central midfielders other than KDB who would've been been better here under similar circumstances, hence the reason I consider him world class.

 

[RedStarUnited]

You get the feeling whenever he decides to, he can change a game with a dribble/move. So when he doesn't, and everyone else is terrible, it really hurts. I have now accepted he doesn't have the mentality to force himself to go up to the next level.

 

[always_hoping]

Not scapegoating him but let's be honest would West Ham have drawn or scored but for that pure gift of penalty?

A good portion of Pogbas career was in the serie A, a league with a culture that's more fearful of hand balls in the box than any other league, so much that you regularly see their players defending with their hands held behind their backs.

A poor mistake by Pogba but he needs to move on now and play his part in getting a result for United on Sunday.

 

[criticalanalysis]

You get the feeling whenever he decides to, he can change a game with a dribble/move. So when he doesn't, and everyone else is terrible, it really hurts. I have now accepted he doesn't have the mentality to force himself to go up to the next level.

Part of the issue is that he's very mindful of being efficient and smart when he can do it too.

I said it in the Matic thread. When one of your deepest midfielders has to essentially vacate the centre of midfield and get close to the box to provide any meaningful creativity and service to your attackers, that's just a simple tactical issue.

Either ask Bruno to stay deep, play a higher line (which you can't with passive 'I'll sit back and sweep nothing' Lindelof), drop one of the wide players or play Fred instead of Matic as he has the legs for pitch coverage.

Pogba was poor today, no excuses but he was actually ok on the ball as part of the midfield two. The issue is that we know this was safe-but-bottom level stuff for his standards and the team is playing in an coordinated and tired mess.

 

[AshRK]

I sometimes wonder what is his role in the team. He no longer makes those forward runs to the box nor does he make any risky forward passes. He just plays too safe and lets Matic make forward passes. Ole has to ask him to play closer to our forwards than just stay with Matic.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Walking around the halfway line making backward passes or it he got really ambitious he might spray it all five yards to Matic. No creativity, no urgency, nothing performance.

 

[e.cantona]

Man-child..

 

[redmanx]

Probably because he has the reputation of someone who "is one of the best in the world", is somebody who has clearly been looking to leave for a bit now, thinking he can do better, etc. Someone on huge wages and was a world record fee at the time who has a shit fitness record, is shit when the going gets tough and definitely wilts under pressure. He's someone that there are constant rumors about leaving because we've struggled the past few years, him and his agent do nothing to dispel them, but on the pitch he doesn't even stand out more often than not as looking clearly better than others. Sure, he has some very good performances. But far too often he just disappoints and doesn't even play to a level that any other club would want to buy him. He doesn't seem to get that to get others like Madrid or Barca to go for him, he has to at least first prove that he's good enough for that. He hasn't done that.

I couldnt agree more; Pogba has all the ability in the world but not the attitude. Hes fine when opposing players stand off and let him do his tricks but once they get in his face he doesnt want to know and usually loses the ball or gives it away and then falls to the ground waving his arms for a free kick. Fred hasnt got Pogbas ability but at least he plays for the team. Scholes, Keane, Robson were all far better midfield players than Pogba and Id also choose Pat Crerand over him. Does Pogba really want to stay at United? I doubt it.

 

[K_Ash]

with that schoolboy mistake, just to show how absolutely dead-tired he is .With 3 full days of recovery, I fully expect him to perform on Sunday.
just needed to survive today.

 

[Banana Republic]

Time to end this experiment imo and let him go.

He's proven time and time again that he can't be star of this team. .........I've seen nothing substantial in the last 2 years to justify his status in the team. And the excuses for him are ridiculous "Oh he can't play in a midfield 2, he needs protection." "Oh he needs better midfield companions." "Oh he's not being played to his strengths".
Maybe he's not good enough. It takes more than talent and fancy flicks to be a great player. Consistency, commitment, application, mentality, sacrifice, drive. All of which are lacking.

Also his attitude is the worst. The agent, the bullshit, the social media, how does Pogba generate so much attention it's beyond me. David Silva or KDB have have twice the output and half the media hype.

.......He‘s fine when opposing players stand off and let him do his tricks but once they get in his face he doesnt want to know and usually loses the ball or gives it away and then falls to the ground waving his arms for a free kick. Fred hasnt got Pogbas ability but at least he plays for the team. Scholes, Keane, Robson were all far better midfield players than Pogba and Id also choose Pat Crerand over him. Does Pogba really want to stay at United? I doubt it.

There’s really nothing more that needs to be said, except to add that I’ve never seen any other central midfield player who like Pogba, shows absolute no desire, whatsoever (nor any ability), to contribute with midfield defensive duties when the opposition have possession, or are attacking. Not even a feeble attempt to close down, challenge, tackle, win back possession or chase after the ball.

For all his natural talent and skill, there’s any out of a dozen midfield players from average and mid table EPL teams, I’d rather have in the squad than Pogba.

 

[RUCK4444]

Probably because he has the reputation of someone who "is one of the best in the world", is somebody who has clearly been looking to leave for a bit now, thinking he can do better, etc. Someone on huge wages and was a world record fee at the time who has a shit fitness record, is shit when the going gets tough and definitely wilts under pressure. He's someone that there are constant rumors about leaving because we've struggled the past few years, him and his agent do nothing to dispel them, but on the pitch he doesn't even stand out more often than not as looking clearly better than others. Sure, he has some very good performances. But far too often he just disappoints and doesn't even play to a level that any other club would want to buy him. He doesn't seem to get that to get others like Madrid or Barca to go for him, he has to at least first prove that he's good enough for that. He hasn't done that.

So he has to gain a move to Madrid before being accepted by United fans? In fact that makes sense when you listen to this place half the time.

He’s a stand out player and our best long range passer without a doubt. He’s consistently had good numbers in both assists and goals in his time here.
His ability is there to see, instantly became the best player to link with Bruno

What he’s not is a peak Keane and Zidane hybrid that will both boss the team and win the game singlehandedly. Shock horror, none of our players are...

 

[SAFMUTD]

He's a worldclass player, total quality and before the chelsea game he was playing at a really high level.

But he's got to stop doing those stupid mistakes, recently he lost the ball twice in our own third. One result in a post and another one in a goal, and now giving away this penalty.

All people defending that its a natural reaction etc thats no freaking excuse, you learn that in junior school. Your hands at the back, I mean anyone thats played football knows how to avoid that, getting both arms to protect the ball thats something youll get screamed at even in your sunday team. Inexcusable, so stupid and luckily we got the draw but if we went to lose that match because of that his head would be on a stick by now with the critizicism.

 

[lsd]

Fosu mensah and lindelof were also covering their faces with their hands in that incident as like it or not it is natural instinct to do .He was below his best tonight but still played better than most including Fernandez , Martial and Rashford for example

 

[bosnian_red]

So he has to gain a move to Madrid before being accepted by United fans? In fact that makes sense when you listen to this place half the time.

He’s a stand out player and our best long range passer without a doubt. He’s consistently had good numbers in both assists and goals in his time here.
His ability is there to see, instantly became the best player to link with Bruno

What he’s not is a peak Keane and Zidane hybrid that will both boss the team and win the game singlehandedly. Shock horror, none of our players are...

What do you mean? I'm saying he needs to perform, work hard and be committed to the team to be accepted by United fans. Pogba and his agent clearly think he is too good for United though, and my point is that he pretty much never even shows that. It's one thing if we were shite despite him being a top player and playing like a top player week in, week out, and clearly being a level above. Instead, he plays like shit most weeks and then all we get is distractions surrounding him.

Nobody is asking him to be a peak Keane and Zidane hybrid. For a start, a consistent and reliable midfielder who doesn't make big costly mistakes on a somewhat regular basis would do. Not once in 4 years has he been close to being one of the top players in the league, and that is telling.