We've got a lot of players with that issue right now.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
We put up with years of a complacent Rooney taking fifty attempts at a chipped goal which Cantona could pull off in one go; so I can wait a while longer to see if Pogba comes good or not.
This is what I think. I think he thinks he's this untouchable midfielder and when anyone tries to tackle him he'll just slide past them. He's got all the time in the world because he's such a good midfielder.
At this point, I honestly can't wait for Paul to sign for Real Madrid, get #10 shirt, play as CAM in 4-2-3-1 (or Zidane's favourite diamond) and win several Ballon d'Ors while we're left wondering what the hell went wrong with Manchester United.
People expect him to perform like prime Zidane or Iniesta with a bunch of Everton level players around him - and ironically, his stats are actually better than Zidane's or Iniesta's ever were. What does PP get in return? Insults and abuse, not just from gutter press, but from "fans" as well.
I'd be disgusted if it were't laughable, our treatment of this absolute gem of a player is a sign of deeper problem within the club. Yeah, lets sign more bang average English players with "passion", "hunger" or "work rate" while we sink deeper into midtable, behind progressive clubs like Wolves... or Everton. Ridiculous!
People expect him to perform like prime Zidane or Iniesta with a bunch of Everton level players around him - and ironically, his stats are actually better than Zidane's or Iniesta's ever were. What does PP get in return? Insults and abuse, not just from gutter press, but from "fans" as well.
I'd be disgusted if it were't laughable, our treatment of this absolute gem of a player is a sign of deeper problem within the club. Yeah, lets sign more bang average English players with "passion", "hunger" or "work rate" while we sink deeper into midtable, behind progressive clubs like Wolves... or Everton. Ridiculous!
Agree. Since signing him, we’ve been teying to find a midfielder to play alongside him to help him fullfil his potential! I think pogba needs to help himself first
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, he'd likely be better with better players around him, but a lot of the issues I see are on him. At the very least it's on him not adapting his game for what's around him.
I understand the sentiment and am sympathetic to his frustration in having to play his prime years with JLingz, but that doesn't justify the lack of effort that we've seen. He is supposedly this future Ballon d'Or winner but he routinely gets dominated by lesser players based simply on the fact that he doesn't match their effort. If he can't, or is unwilling to put in the required effort to clearly demonstrate that he is so far superior to the opposition, then he should leave.
I am glad you mentioned Everton and Wolves -- in our recent encounters, would you say he won his personal duels against their CMs? I don't think anyone here would say that he did.
A great player in there...we all know that. But just not right for United and what we need at the moment. We can’t have a player in the team who is supposed to be our main man, switching it on and off when it suits him.
It doesn’t help that him and Lingard are a pair of absolute helmets - I want them gone. Getting rid of those two alone would help. These two arse-clowns run the United dressing room ffs...bugger me. I bet Youngy doesn’t even get first choice on the dressing room tunes these days...LingZzzz probably plays his favourite Vanessa Carlton tune to get the lads pumped up. Absolute stain.
It doesn’t help that him and Lingard are a pair of absolute helmets - I want them gone. Getting rid of those two alone would help. These two arse-clowns run the United dressing room ffs...bugger me. I bet Youngy doesn’t even get first choice on the dressing room tunes these days...LingZzzz probably plays his favourite Vanessa Carlton tune to get the lads pumped up. Absolute stain.
Bang on, with the attitude of some fans we're Burnley in the making.
He doesn’t lack effort though does he? This is such a piss poor rumour that’s somehow grown legs and not everybody apparently believes it as gospel.
I would say he has moments where he loses concentration or days where he’s just not “at it”, but he’s never just thrown the towel in.
Look against Cardiff, that was the most pissed off ive ever seen him when 1 of their players was wasting time. Is that not caring?
How about when the guy that isolated him from the team and labelled him a virus was on the verge of the sack. Did he give up and allow us to lose? No he drove us back into it and won us the match. Saved his job.
No pogba isn’t perfect but he’s our best player by a country mile. We need players of pogbas quality, getting rid of him for another fred or Matic is not going to get us anywhere.
Hopefully you follow him.
Day dreaming fantasy this.
Without fans the club has no revenue. You do understand this, do you?
If not, please let me know and I’ll get out the chalkboard and draw you a diagram.
Ok so, please explain how the club would earn any revenue without fans.
Our fanbase has a thing against our best talents. It's the same reason why Nani is no longer with United, but Ashley Young remained despite being the inferior talent. Inconsistent is the label those with talent get labeled with, even though our crap players are consistently awful and don't get the same amount of attention on them. They're accepted as awful so they don't get as much hate directed at them, while they think the more talented player should be performing better and thus deserve more criticism.
Our fanbase is as rotten as our squad.
At the same time, I do think that none of our players escape criticism. It's just that our more talented players get talked about more and that then translates to more bad attention on our more talented players.
You're both right but @Sandikan does have a point when it comes to gate takings in singularity, not taking fans out of the equation completely though. The current TV deals bring in way more revenue.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44850888
More than half of Premier League clubs could have played in empty stadiums and still made a pre-tax profit in the first season of the current broadcast deal, BBC research has found.
In 2016-17, during which clubs benefited from a record £8.3bn in global TV revenue, matchday income contributed less than 20p in every £1 earned by 18 top-flight outfits.
The number of clubs that would have recorded pre-tax profits even if matchday income was taken away rose from two in 2015-16 to 11 in 2016-17.
Dr Rob Wilson, a sport finance specialist at Sheffield Hallam University, said the previous £3.018bn broadcast deal struck in 2012 signalled a permanent change to top-flight football as a business in England.
"That is when the focus really went toward generating TV money rather than matchday ticket receipts," he told BBC Sport.
"The revenue structures of those clubs are fairly well there to stay now.
"When you get a £120m payout from the Premier League for kicking a ball around, you can play in an empty stadium if you need to.
The TV audience are fans. The buyers of merchandise are fans. The buyers of sponsors products are fans. Not a single penny is earned without fans. The fans at the stadium are the voice of all fans and deserve to be heard and respected.
I did say gate takings in singularity which is the point he was making I believe. The voices of match going fans deserve to be heard but they don't have the right (they can but its not right) to personally abuse/insult players. That act is immature, disgusting and is an embarrassment to this club
Id have thought a lot of people would draw a distinction between "fans" and tv viewers.
Fans being match day goers. If you didn't mean fans in this way then fair enough.
That’s a bit over the top. We have the right to call out players who are stealing a living. Pogba chief among them in my view. I heard no personal abuse in the clips shared on line, simply an accurate albeit pithy description of his performances this season.
This is spot on. Instead of replacing the shit players with good players, we moan about good players not carrying shit players.
Stealing a living while being the clubs top scorer and assist provider from midfield? Now that's OTT criticism! There was personal abuse, maybe you should watch and listen more carefully. You're just blindly giving them a pass for foolish behavior.
8 penalties so don’t give me the top scorer nonsense. I heard somebody say “you’re sh#t mate”. Not nice to hear but accurate and deserved. I give Pogba credit for standing there and taking it.
He was called a cnut, was told to feck off, but you heard no personal abuse....
Take away his penalties and the numbers are still impressive for a midfielder, 7 goals and 11 assists, sole creative force in the side. You've already made up your mind and are siding with people abusing a player. Its being reported correctly as abuse for a reason. feck off, feck you cnut, feck you. Are you deaf?
They came in bunches, though. That's his season in a nutshell. A run of matches where he would score or assist in every game, followed by several weeks of utter hopelessness. Hence people feel he didn't have a good season, despite being relatively productive.
Funny how he could be "arsed" every single time he played for Juventus. Or France. He might not be a Roy Keane that can lift up those around him when things go bad, but i don't think he should have to be. Messi is often times also awful when nothing works for the team as a whole. I don't understand how we so easily can write someone with all that talent off after a "bad" season. I say "bad" because he is still by far our most productive player this season.
We need to look at those around him as well. And those in front of him. How many chances have they missed? Clear-cut chances he handed them? I just don't think pointing out one individual player is fair. I find it easy to understand that he often times can be frustrated with the players around him. Martial standing still. Lukaku making runs that not even Scholes could pass him the ball. Wonder how Pogba would do with Ronaldo, Giggs and Van Persie in front of him...
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The abuse he gets is still way over the top and plain unfair. Pogba has a problem with his frustration getting the better of him. He starts of games well and works just as hard as anyone else. But when things go rough he goes frustrated and he just falls of. Seen it to often under last season with Mou and the last few months under Ole. A good coach can work on that mentality and fix it. Rather give that a go before we sell the only player we have that on-form can be classified as world class. Or no?
Anyway, we have bigger problems. Like is Ole the right man to rebuild this club? Woodward has failed like no other and is still in the same position. A DOF is yet to be appointed. Man, Pogba is far down the list of our problems.
He will, because he will be in a midfield full of top players. A few of the best midfields of the last couple of decades:
Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets
Modric, Kroos
Fernandinho, Toure, De Bruyne
Scholes, Keane
Carrick, Scholes
Viera, Gilberto
Essien, Makele, Lampard
Kaka, Pirlo, Seedorf, Gattuso
Davids, De Boer x2, Litmanen
Every single one of those players was world class. There's not a single case of one player carrying the others.
Yet we stick Pogba next to an ever changing mixture of Matic, Herrera, McTominay, Pereira and Fred, and complain when he's not performing like Scholes and Keane rolled into one.
I have never seen one player become such a target before.
We have some of the worst starters I've seen in my lifetime, but somehow they are not facing criticism on a high level.
He creates most chances, he has the most assists, most goals (albeit heavily inflated by penalties), yet somehow he is the biggest issue.
Not the other 10 underperforming players.
Why has it become to an ultimatum with this guy? He has to be a leader, he has to be world class even though others aren't? Why can't we just accept that he isn't a leader, isn't going to control games, but take the good in him and add to that. His passing range is superb, some of the things he does are so easy to him that it's not noticed. He had a shocking game against Cardiff but he passed successfully between the lines in the second half at an impressive rate. Scott McTominay passed once between the lines against Crystal Palace and people were ready for a DVD.
He is not a right fit because the level of players we have starting for us is a joke. He is not a fit because we don't have clue on how to run into spaces in attack. Put any other midfielder in his position, with these very blunt players we have, and we end up with the same frustrations. Toni Kroos for example would look like Kovacic here.
The media and unfortunately a sizeable portion of our own fans just hate him. How those who actually create something in this awful team are taking the blame is absurd.
Lingard is taking over 100 k per week, starts most games in an attacking three, ended up with the same amount of goals as van Dijk, has fever assists in his career than Alexander-Arnold in one season.
Why does Pogba have to be the one? Why can't he be one of the eleven? Judge them all on the same standard.
We have some of the worst starters I've seen in my lifetime, but somehow they are not facing criticism on a high level.
He creates most chances, he has the most assists, most goals (albeit heavily inflated by penalties), yet somehow he is the biggest issue.
Not the other 10 underperforming players.
Why has it become to an ultimatum with this guy? He has to be a leader, he has to be world class even though others aren't? Why can't we just accept that he isn't a leader, isn't going to control games, but take the good in him and add to that. His passing range is superb, some of the things he does are so easy to him that it's not noticed. He had a shocking game against Cardiff but he passed successfully between the lines in the second half at an impressive rate. Scott McTominay passed once between the lines against Crystal Palace and people were ready for a DVD.
He is not a right fit because the level of players we have starting for us is a joke. He is not a fit because we don't have clue on how to run into spaces in attack. Put any other midfielder in his position, with these very blunt players we have, and we end up with the same frustrations. Toni Kroos for example would look like Kovacic here.
The media and unfortunately a sizeable portion of our own fans just hate him. How those who actually create something in this awful team are taking the blame is absurd.
Lingard is taking over 100 k per week, starts most games in an attacking three, ended up with the same amount of goals as van Dijk, has fever assists in his career than Alexander-Arnold in one season.
Why does Pogba have to be the one? Why can't he be one of the eleven? Judge them all on the same standard.
We can get over €100m for a player who generally decides against running. I'm into it.
Pogba wasn't consistency incarnate for Juve either, nor has he been that for France. Blowing hot and cold, to varying degrees, has always characterized him. It isn't just a question of being stuck with subpar team mates.
Not that I necessarily hold that hugely against him, it often comes with the territory with a certain type of player (see the Nani remarks above). But his staunch supporters on here seem intent on hyperbole. There's a middle ground here, between - say - genuinely lazy and hard working.
Also, sometimes you can - absolutely - use stats to counter someone's erroneous, biased opinion of a player. But you can't counter the view that Pogba is inconsistent, or that he has an unacceptably low bottom level, by citing 7 goals and 11 assists (or whatever it is minus the pens) over and over again.
It reminds me of the tedious Berbatov debates. Scoring twenty by netting every other match is different from putting in a couple of hat-tricks and a double brace, followed by Lukaku style droughts - and "a goal is a goal, they all count the same" simply isn't much of an argument in that context.
Not that I necessarily hold that hugely against him, it often comes with the territory with a certain type of player (see the Nani remarks above). But his staunch supporters on here seem intent on hyperbole. There's a middle ground here, between - say - genuinely lazy and hard working.
Also, sometimes you can - absolutely - use stats to counter someone's erroneous, biased opinion of a player. But you can't counter the view that Pogba is inconsistent, or that he has an unacceptably low bottom level, by citing 7 goals and 11 assists (or whatever it is minus the pens) over and over again.
It reminds me of the tedious Berbatov debates. Scoring twenty by netting every other match is different from putting in a couple of hat-tricks and a double brace, followed by Lukaku style droughts - and "a goal is a goal, they all count the same" simply isn't much of an argument in that context.
Pogba is infuriatingly inconsistent. With his talent he shouldn’t be having less than 6/10 games, but he regularly has 4s. We constantly hear he needs 2 great players around him to be consistent. When is he going to stop draining the clubs resources to accommodate him.
But the main problem with pogba is off the field. He left United because he wasn’t patient enough to grow into a well oiled team under Fergie, then cost us 88m to bring him back plus 200+ grand a week, with Raiola on board.
Every few months he throws the club into turmoil by flirting with the exit door, just when we have a chance of building a bit of stability.
If pogba came out and said ‘I love United and want to stay here, the rest is nonsense ‘ then he wouldn’t get half the criticism.
On the pitch he is so frustrating because
1. He cost so much money
2. He is supposedly a leader
3. He has the talent to do so much more
Everyone knows that Jones, young, Matic were only ever average to good at their best so we just chalk it down as poor squad recruitment and retention, and that moving these on is the bread and butter of what needs to be done, so the debate is fairly focused on pogba as the figurehead of a key position and investment in the team.
People rightly criticize and write off Sanchez, but there is no debate there. He earns 400 grand approx a week and is awful.
Pogba though, cost 90mil and earns 200+ grand a week which actually works out as a bigger investment, and the least fans can expect is 6 or 7 out of 10 performances 90% of the time.
On top of the outlay, we apparently need two other 50m + players to babysit pogba in our midfield. It’s ridiculous.
If we know anything from the last 20 years, it’s that Fergie was a genius. He binned Ince, Beckham, Keane, Van Nistlerooy and more because he saw a decline and or knew that they weren’t right for the team. His judgment on Pogba clearly had merit, and it still applies.
I lost a lot of respect for Rooney when he started causing media chaos for the club wanting out/looking for a huge pay rise, when he wasn’t at his best, and myself and many other fans feel the same now regarding pogba.
If we sold Pogba and brought in a top quality, hard working defensive midfielder and number 10 who could get 8+ goals and assists per season, who keep their heads down and do their talking on the pitch, giving 7/10s every week, we will improve as a team and club and will have replaced Pogba for the same money, and these players won’t need 2 players babysitting them in games, draining energy from other players.
It would be similar to what Liverpool did with Coutinho.
As for the abuse he got from the fan, although not ideally delivered, he’s justified in the main. Imagine what Roy Keane would say to Paul in the dressing room, or Fergie behind closed doors. This is top level pro football, where players are on the world stage and fans fork out thousands a year to watch and support, there has to be standards and there has to be criticism when standards aren’t met.
These players, not just pogba, need to know what the fans think and when they aren’t good enough for the club now and moving forward.
Rant over!
But the main problem with pogba is off the field. He left United because he wasn’t patient enough to grow into a well oiled team under Fergie, then cost us 88m to bring him back plus 200+ grand a week, with Raiola on board.
Every few months he throws the club into turmoil by flirting with the exit door, just when we have a chance of building a bit of stability.
If pogba came out and said ‘I love United and want to stay here, the rest is nonsense ‘ then he wouldn’t get half the criticism.
On the pitch he is so frustrating because
1. He cost so much money
2. He is supposedly a leader
3. He has the talent to do so much more
Everyone knows that Jones, young, Matic were only ever average to good at their best so we just chalk it down as poor squad recruitment and retention, and that moving these on is the bread and butter of what needs to be done, so the debate is fairly focused on pogba as the figurehead of a key position and investment in the team.
People rightly criticize and write off Sanchez, but there is no debate there. He earns 400 grand approx a week and is awful.
Pogba though, cost 90mil and earns 200+ grand a week which actually works out as a bigger investment, and the least fans can expect is 6 or 7 out of 10 performances 90% of the time.
On top of the outlay, we apparently need two other 50m + players to babysit pogba in our midfield. It’s ridiculous.
If we know anything from the last 20 years, it’s that Fergie was a genius. He binned Ince, Beckham, Keane, Van Nistlerooy and more because he saw a decline and or knew that they weren’t right for the team. His judgment on Pogba clearly had merit, and it still applies.
I lost a lot of respect for Rooney when he started causing media chaos for the club wanting out/looking for a huge pay rise, when he wasn’t at his best, and myself and many other fans feel the same now regarding pogba.
If we sold Pogba and brought in a top quality, hard working defensive midfielder and number 10 who could get 8+ goals and assists per season, who keep their heads down and do their talking on the pitch, giving 7/10s every week, we will improve as a team and club and will have replaced Pogba for the same money, and these players won’t need 2 players babysitting them in games, draining energy from other players.
It would be similar to what Liverpool did with Coutinho.
As for the abuse he got from the fan, although not ideally delivered, he’s justified in the main. Imagine what Roy Keane would say to Paul in the dressing room, or Fergie behind closed doors. This is top level pro football, where players are on the world stage and fans fork out thousands a year to watch and support, there has to be standards and there has to be criticism when standards aren’t met.
These players, not just pogba, need to know what the fans think and when they aren’t good enough for the club now and moving forward.
Rant over!
These numbers are still comparable to other top midfielders in functional teams. Who do you think has been United's best midfielder this season?
Even in the last games hes been hitting the wood work or putting chances on a plate which don't get finished. Overall that 2 months under Ole he was exceptional but I don't think thats a level that he can be expected to maintain.
He has had some poor games but overall he has had a good season and has been our best outfield player so to me he isn't a problem, improve the rest of the team and he will be more consistent also.
I can see why people get frustrated though, and its because even though they don't admit it all their hopes are mainly pinned on Pogba to win us games.
All this hatred and OTT scrutiny of Pogba's performances just show how poor the rest of his teammates and the midfield in particular is. He's expected to do everything. Fans want him to be Messi, Ronaldo and Kante combined. What the feck has fan favorite Herrera done this season? Matic and Fred? McTominay is an average player who has merely been putting in shifts consistently lately but he's had stinkers of his own and has he really made a big impact?
The whataboutery in this thread is getting ridiculous. There are obvious reasons why McTominay (young, academy graduate, cost nothing) Fred (first season, new league) Hererra (runs about a lot) are being cut more slack than Pogba and Matic has been completely written off for pretty much this whole season.
None of this has anything to do with whether or not Pogba deserves criticism for his own contributions. And if you’re hoping for criticism of those other players, then why post in a thread that is titled “Pogba 2018/19 Performances”?
Who has been our best defender? Who has been our best striker? Should these players also be exempt from criticism?
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