I guess sarcasm is easier than answering the question. Which kind of proves my point.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I guess sarcasm is easier than answering the question. Which kind of proves my point.
He needs more quality around him is the rhetoric I got.
I can answer you, but again you will say that he wasn't that good because you are a hater. So what's the point ? It better to show your stupidity.
So again, yeah never. I don't understand the hype. Juventus, Real etc are also Pogba's groupies.
Rashford and Fellaini scored the winners against Celta.
Man of the match in the 1st leg: Marcus Rashford
Man of the match in the 2nd leg: Fellaini
Man of the match in the final: Ander Herrera
Number of man of the matches in the EL:
Mkhi - 3
Zlatan - 1
Rojo - 2
Rashford - 2
Herrera - 1
Mkhi scored in 4 knockout games in the EL. No way can Pogba be considered above him in that tournament.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2016-17-performances.420541/page-264#post-20836263
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2016-17-performances.420541/page-272#post-20870797
The responses to the celta match. Carrying the team. Good job we took the chances he create upfront. Should've been more tbh. Why did uefa give him the award for best player then? For bystanding?
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And regarding poor Pogba putting chances on a plate for absolute donkeys to miss:
Aubameyang is the league's top scorer but has missed 20 "big chances" this season.
Lukaku and Rashford have missed 14 each
Lacazette is on 13
Kane is on 11
Aguero on 10
Aubameyang is the league's top scorer but has missed 20 "big chances" this season.
Lukaku and Rashford have missed 14 each
Lacazette is on 13
Kane is on 11
Aguero on 10
There was a stat recently about us having four players in double figures for goals, for the first time since 1995/96.
Must make it difficult for Pogba having so few goalscorers around him to try and pick out.
But Pogba is one of them.
Yes. And your point is?
What people did here is basically shifting the blame from Mourinho to his teammates for Pogba's problem. Next season they'll start blaming Ole for restricting him as well.
Jorginho in 2nd
Try the assists section.
Well you can argues that assists are as much a reflection of the player on the end of the pass as they are on the player making it. See above for chances being created and missed by United players.
And let's not forget this discussion is now getting focussed exclusively on the one thing that everyone agrees is capable of doing well. Playing one or two really great, creative passes every 90 minutes or so.
Personally, I'm expecting much much more from a player who was getting talked up (by himself as well as others) as being the complete central midfielder.
Personally, I'm expecting much much more from a player who was getting talked up (by himself as well as others) as being the complete central midfielder.
That stat falls to three then those three are famously streaky goalscorers he has in front of him.
Pogba has had his best output ever so that stat can be turned around and used as a plus for him instead of implying he isn't using our attacking options at it's fullest. Pogba has helped provide our attackers with their best etc etc
Martial is back to being in and out of the side, Lukaku is dropped every other week and he has a under performing Rashford as his focal point. Even those goalscorers are rarely on the pitch at the same time anymore.
Are we talking goals? Turns out taking 10 penalties (it is 10, right?) in a season is good for a player's goals tally. Who'd have thunk it?
1. Beckham had a song and so did Rio.
2. Posters are actively saying to leave Pogba alone, stop criticising him for his half arsed performances, even though he's supposed to be the leader and star man, and focus on De Gea, give him shit, even though he has single handedly saved this club from mid table wilderness
.... Children these days
3. I saw someone say he doesnt understand why people expect Pogba to perform in every game.... Probably because he's a footballer pal, its job and what he's paid to do? Plus people here have called him the best in the world so why not expect it?
If Pogba was a U2 tour, we'd be saying they've lost it...
2. Posters are actively saying to leave Pogba alone, stop criticising him for his half arsed performances, even though he's supposed to be the leader and star man, and focus on De Gea, give him shit, even though he has single handedly saved this club from mid table wilderness
.... Children these days3. I saw someone say he doesnt understand why people expect Pogba to perform in every game.... Probably because he's a footballer pal, its job and what he's paid to do? Plus people here have called him the best in the world so why not expect it?
If Pogba was a U2 tour, we'd be saying they've lost it...
Is it easy scoring pens? Or does that even out the repeated fluffed chances that Rashford provides or the complete lack of movement or options that Lukaku and Martial bring to the table?
You seem to ask for facts in defence of Paul but there's a lot of yes buts in your responses to your criticisms.
I'm not even a Pogba fan by the way but it's April and we've completley changed our mind as to what our best two starting midfielders are while our attack is getting changed up every other week.
Maybe he'll play behind the forward killers we have in Lingard or Dalot this Sunday. Build up that stat to 6 players with 10 plus goals!
Let's hope he can reach the target of 20 goals/15 assist this season and finish off the season on a high note. Will be hilarious if he's our top scorer from midfield after spending half of the season 'downing tools'.
The one really big "fact" I want to see in defence is someone reminding me that I've misremembered his frankly pitiful return of two objectively MOTM displays in big games since he signed for the club. I'm honestly curious here!
The funny thing is, I am a Pogba fan. I watched his first game with us for the U18s live and was immediately blown away by what I saw. I was gutted when he left and thrilled when we signed him back up again. Then his debut against Southampton went as well as I dared hope. Since then, though, it's been varying degrees of disappointment. Sometimes I think he might finally be the player I'd hoped he'd become, then it all goes pear shaped again. It's just not good enough for a player who is supposedly up there with the very best of his generation.
I'm old enough to have watched many Manchester United players who fulfil that description and, believer me, they were miles more influential and consistent than Pogba. Which probably explains that the people most likely to be critical of his United career are fan of a similar age. If you've never enjoyed watching Keane or Robson dominate midfield, week after week, then maybe expectations are low enough to find what Pogba produces acceptable. Who knows? I bumped this thread today to point out players at other clubs who - in the here and now - are producing the big match performances we should be getting from Pogba on a much more regular basis but I guess that reference isn't working. Oh well.
Oh how we will all laugh.
The thing is I agree with you apart from the downplaying of his output. He had a fantastic world cup, it's what everybody holds up for him but how many MOTM awards did he win then? How many 90 minute, dominating performances were on display?
He's a player who seems to keep the play ticking over and then burst forward and take opportunities when they arise. Like your City away point I think it's really unfair to downplay his second half because the side were all at sea during the first. It's asking too much of him to be a Dm helping hold off the hoardes then demand he dictates our play further forward.
He's too easy of a target. We never criticsed Keane when we routinely failed in Europe as the opposition bled us to death through the middle of the park? He even lost his fair share of midfield battles to Vieria or watched Gerrard run through to the heart of our defence and score from 25 yards yet nobody demanded that he do more.
Maybe one? Two at a push.
The stuff about Keane in your final paragraph makes me think you never watched him play. Unless you're talking about the injury ravaged version of his last season or two? Certainly bears no resemblance to the version of Keane I remember when he was the same age Pogba is now.
A fantastic world cup??
Are people honesty shitting me here???
He had a very good game against Argentina and a good second half in the final...
Fantastic??? It'll be the best world cup anyone has ever had next week
Are people honesty shitting me here???
He had a very good game against Argentina and a good second half in the final...
Fantastic??? It'll be the best world cup anyone has ever had next week
Of course I watched him play. We routinely went out in Europe against the technical sides that flooded the midfield. A lot of that was down to how we set up but nobody was digging Keane out when the opposition were dancing through our midfield.
That was just a number game. Turns out playing 442 with wingers hugging the touchline might not be the best way to take on the best teams in Europe. Didn't stop us eventually winning the Champions League, mind you. With Keane's performance against Juve in the semi-final exactly the type of performance we have never seen from Pogba in a United shirt.
Those were incredible balls, in fairness to him.He gave Rashford 2 golden passes alone! It's amazing how forgetful you guys are
I think a big issue a number of people have - Pogba is great when things are going well. When we started well, he was confident, he was zipping the ball around. But generally, when games get tough, or things start to go wrong, he disappears / sulks. The moment where he stupidly tried to hold off 2 of their players in midfield instead of just playing a simple ball back to one of the defenders, lost the ball, then repeatedly booted out at their lad (how he didn't get booked I'll never know) was kinda him in a microcosm at times. Petulant, acting up when things aren't working out.
I know he dragged us back into the City game last year, before you point that out. But in general, he's not the type who drags us back into games. And that's super frustrating, because he's so talented.
Next year? Feel like it's around the corner: OGS doesn't have the managerial CV to manage this team. He 's learning on job. Pogba is wasted with this naive tactic.
BS. Name me all the games he cost us. Needs to be at least 5 that he single handedly cost us, to be "a lot". We can also name numerous games that he saved us in.
It's hilarious. People trashing our best player to try and prop up Pogba.
Exactly. That game stands out so much because it's such a rarity. And let's not forget he dragged us back into a game where he'd been as much to blame as anyone for us needing to drag our way back into it!
I'll quote this in few months to tell you how right you were in your prediction in what people will say.
You're just avoiding the question. He's asked a simple question and you're avoiding it, plain and simple. At least one of the other posters has pointed out some games.
Arsenal 2 games, Wolverhampton, Barcelona already. only pickford made more feck ups.
It's delusional and living in the past to still think he's our best player. Only our fans can give a pass on nearly 1 year of average performances and scream 'best GK in the world' whilst a CM that's putting the best season of his career is 'underwhelming'
So, you've come up with 4 games? That's a lot? How many did he save us in? Multiple games also. And this is a down year for him. A lot of games my ass. He's had a few bad games, yes. But he's also had some amazing games. You probably don't remember the Spurs game. You probably don't remember his immense save against West Ham to keep us level - those don't fit your narrative.
It's priceless. Paul Pogba gets defended because no-one else is up to his standards. The players don't move enough for him etc etc.
De Gea is "protected" by a back 4 which regularly contains Smalling, Jones, Bailly & Young ... but no such allowances, for our best player. Repeatedly (4 times in a row I believe?) our player of the year. But we won't cut him some slack for a few bad games in a season.
Incredible.
I wish gifs were still a thing on here...
I've seen people in here quote the redcafe rating as a way of showing Pogba is one of our best. Along with whoscored. Tell me, have a look at the ratings on the caf. Who's our highest rated player? You might get a surprise.
Then look at whoscored. People fawning over Alisson of Pool Rating is 6.72. De Gea's is 6.51. Not a huge drop, now is it?
That's fair enough, but that's just Pogba I'm afraid. He fancies himself 1v1 in a battle to hold the ball against anybody, and usually succeeds. It's just in his nature to do that, it won't ever change. I can live with that though, as what he does bring to the team far outweighs any little issue like that.
If the team moved and helped eachother out instead of running away 20 yards we wouldn't have these issues. Anyway, as far as I see it we've got much bigger issues than Pogba to worry about.
I agree, he's definitely not our biggest issue! I don't think too many people think he is.
I don't mind him fancying himself 1v1 at times. But this was 2v1 and was just stupid. He needs to learn to play the simple ball at times. The great players can do great things, yes, but they ALL without fail know when to play the simple ball. Pogba doesn't, and he's not a youngster anymore, so I don't see it happening with him. That's a huge flaw in a midfielders game, in my opinion.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/paul-pogba/elfmetertore/spieler/122153
I didn't check until now and Pogba scored 8 penalties this season. It looks a bit more humble return without penalties to be honest, but 8 goals and 14 assists in open play is still very fine for a midfielder, considering also the 'quality' of our displays. If next season Ole can make this team to play like he did during his first months in terms of movement, energy and attacking intent, I can see Pogba banging in goals and assists for fun. It's been a hard season for everyone with permanent ups and downs and the man still brought good numbers to the table. In better conditions he can give us even more.
I think it's important to bring this summer another source of creativity to our midfield, as we're too reliant on Pogba to create and everytime he's tightly marked or just not arsed we're easily switched off. With a ball playing midfielder we can have more control during games and divide the attention a bit. The same with a proper right winger, as whoever we play there tends to go to the middle so we always go through the same routes. It doesn't mean Pogba always plays well and he's never at fault, but the platform he's been given to perform is pure mediocrity.
Under Solskjaer before the injuries we played with tons of energy and movement, and not just Pogba but all our attackers looked fine. The movement off the ball was very good in attack, and we also pressed to get it back in 3/4 during that time, which allowed us to create another chance. After the injuries we've been playing more conservative football and nobody shines in attack since then. So next season I expect Solskjaer to prepare the team well so it's easier for everyone to perform.
I could be wrong with this, but I think Pogba is yet to play his best football in the coming seasons when he becomes a more mature player, so it would be a shame to have been suffering his emojis and pogdances for years, just to see him smashing it from on now anywhere else. So let's have a bit of patience and evaluate him next year in a more normal season (hopefully) with better conditions around, and if he doesn't show up then we can always part ways and move on. Doing it this summer would be premature and a clear mistake in my opinion.
I didn't check until now and Pogba scored 8 penalties this season. It looks a bit more humble return without penalties to be honest, but 8 goals and 14 assists in open play is still very fine for a midfielder, considering also the 'quality' of our displays. If next season Ole can make this team to play like he did during his first months in terms of movement, energy and attacking intent, I can see Pogba banging in goals and assists for fun. It's been a hard season for everyone with permanent ups and downs and the man still brought good numbers to the table. In better conditions he can give us even more.
I think it's important to bring this summer another source of creativity to our midfield, as we're too reliant on Pogba to create and everytime he's tightly marked or just not arsed we're easily switched off. With a ball playing midfielder we can have more control during games and divide the attention a bit. The same with a proper right winger, as whoever we play there tends to go to the middle so we always go through the same routes. It doesn't mean Pogba always plays well and he's never at fault, but the platform he's been given to perform is pure mediocrity.
Under Solskjaer before the injuries we played with tons of energy and movement, and not just Pogba but all our attackers looked fine. The movement off the ball was very good in attack, and we also pressed to get it back in 3/4 during that time, which allowed us to create another chance. After the injuries we've been playing more conservative football and nobody shines in attack since then. So next season I expect Solskjaer to prepare the team well so it's easier for everyone to perform.
I could be wrong with this, but I think Pogba is yet to play his best football in the coming seasons when he becomes a more mature player, so it would be a shame to have been suffering his emojis and pogdances for years, just to see him smashing it from on now anywhere else. So let's have a bit of patience and evaluate him next year in a more normal season (hopefully) with better conditions around, and if he doesn't show up then we can always part ways and move on. Doing it this summer would be premature and a clear mistake in my opinion.
United need to come to the realization that he is an attacking midfielder, not a CDM or box to box. It's no coincidence that he looks his best as a number 10 and looks his worst as a number 6 or 8. We all look at KDB last night and ask the same of Pogba but let's also look at KDB's midfield partners and the overall talent around him. Play Pogba in this City team and you get performances just as good if not better. Put KDB on this United team and see how effective he is with our lack of movement and playing alongside McTominay/Herrera. Our second best midfielder is probably equivalent to City's 3 or 4.
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