Thing is, when we don't have the ball, he is pretty much useless. He doesn't close down his man and tracks runners poorly. He can tackle, but randomly at best. When we have the ball, he can be phenomenal; some of his passing is sublime, and his vision is great. However, when facing a team like Barcelona, it's almost like playing with 10 men 70% of the time.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
That's because Busquets is done, completely shot. It was very obvious that his legs are gone, just like Ashley Young.
I am not so critical of Pogba in this game because Mctominaisse and Fred played quite well so I wasn't too bothered with whether Paul turned up or not.
Strange that so many didn't think he performed well. His passing and movement was way better in this game and he won the ball back. I guess it helps that he is much stronger than the Barca midfielders which makes it easier for him.
He only lacked the final ball which has been a problem for him recently when you expect him to do something. In his defense we make too few good runs for him though. Although he wasted some chances to do something too.
He only lacked the final ball which has been a problem for him recently when you expect him to do something. In his defense we make too few good runs for him though. Although he wasted some chances to do something too.
He played well, what are people on about?
Very good in the first half. Became a ghost in the second half though.
He was good again in a big game. Busquets and Rakitic were afraid of him and everytime he had the ball you could feel that something might happen. Infortunately, Barcelona dominated us because in every position ( except his ) they have better players.
I agree. This was the thing for me. We had the control in the second half and could have won it if Pogba played like he did in the first half, he didn't turn up and got caught out pondering his decisions too much. Not assured in anything in that second half. I don't want to scapegoat him, but it was disappointing that he fell out of the game right when our team got into it. Very weird. We could have sustained attacking pressure a lot more if Pogba showed up for the pass after we won the ball, and pressed with intent when we lost it. Instead we didn't find our attacking options and had to drop deep when our team press didn't work.
Actually, the argument was "does not show in big games REGULARLY" if we talk about being selective. So no, what you were doing was in fact being very selective, by showing him as doing well in big games a lot more often than he actually has.
Had the same exact same thoughts. I saw a disciplined performance.
I have mentioned pretty much all his stats against every big team and whom he plays well against and whom he didn't do anything against.
That's definitely better than deleting his first season from existence to show his stats better than what they actually are.
Played pretty solid but not good enough for what is expected of him. An improvement compared to the last games but I really cannot decide for myself if he is worth the hype and money or if it might be better to take Real's cash.
I have mentioned pretty much all his stats against every big team and whom he plays well against and whom he didn't do anything against.
That's definitely better than deleting his first season from existence to show his stats better than what they actually are.
you didn’t answer my question
but he has been producing in big games regularly for about 2 seasons now
He hasn't been producing in big games regularly, neither his first season, the second or even the current one. He plays well usually against Arsenal and Spurs but he goes missing most of times against Chelsea, Liverpool and City, which he played against in 13 matches for now and had only 2-3 memorable ones.
Your stats were flawed for several reasons, deleting his first season from the stat for no particular reason and not posting in which games his goals and assists came from. Both made it look better than what it was, like listing he had 1 goal and 1 assist against Chelsea in 4 games, while in fact both came in 1 game out of those 3, which was the one in the cup this season, so that's hardly "regularly performing"
I know you took this from a tweet I saw previously here and it was still bad. If you want to post a stat to prove your point, then post a full and detailed one.
Bossed both away games against Chelsea this season, Bossed City away last season. Yeah always goes missing in big games
Bossed both away games against Chelsea this season, Bossed City away last season. Yeah always goes missing in big games
The whole conversation is about regularly performing in big games and I mentioned these games in my early post but in relation to how many games he played against each one of them but I don't blame you. You're so focused on throwing digs at whoever dares to talk negatively about Pogba so you'll definitely not focus on what's said discussions. Keep doing what you do the best.
When did he play 13 games against those teams? Infact he missed most of these big games with injury/suspension.
I listed the full list of how many games he played against each one in these 3 seasons. 3 games against City, 3 against Liverpool and 7 against Chelsea.
Nope, just pointing out where you have a short memory! it seems the "poor" performances are easier for you to remember than his good ones.
Except I mentioned these good performance earlier. Again, the full discussion is how regularly he performs in big games, not if he performed in one or two of them previously.
He played 6 times against Chelsea. Won the game in the last one and dominated three others (this season last season and his first year 2-0,result) . So not turning up vs Chelsea is false.
He played City in his first year twice and dominated the league cup game and won the match last year. So of these 3 games he was our best in one and one of the best in the other.
He played vs Liverpool twice in his first year and created the chance of the game which should've won the game but we drew 0-0.
So the claim that he failed to turn up against City, Liverpool and Chelsea ignored the games his name didn't appear on the scoresheets and classed games that he was part of a winning team or draw as 'missing' in.
Not that surprising.
He played all the games we played against Chelsea bar the one we lost against Morate. We played them in the league and cup in all these seasons so that's 7 out of 8 games (one yet to be played this season). Had one great performance against them which was this season in the cup (in which both his goal and assist against them came), a decent game in our 2-0 win in his first season. The rest were pretty much unforgettable.
City, he played against them 3 times, first one was a shocker, second was in the league cup in which more than half of the City team was reserves and bench warmers including their entire midfield and we played full strength, , hardly dominating eh ? https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37700029#tab-0 and the last was his great game against them last season in which his both goals he scored against them came.
Liverpool, 3 games, first one we barely got out of our box for most the game, second was a shocker, and third was decent but nothing impacting.
You're using the word "dominating" too much. Define domination.
you are typing these paragraphs but not answering anything I’m asking you.
you asked why his first season wasn’t included and I surmised that it was to show improvement over time, that the narrative he doesn’t show in big games is not applicable (at least anymore). I even suggested looking at chances created in his first season to contextualise it, as our strike force was incredibly wasteful then, you skipped all that and turned it into “he’s good vs xyz and not against abc”, I then asked if football is static, if his stats from 17/18 to now do not show he has been producing regularly in big matches, again, you skipped it, and muddied the waters some more.
since 17/18
4 games vs Chelsea = 1 goal, 1 assist
3 games vs Spurs = 2 assists
1 game vs City = 2 goals
5 games vs Arsenal = 1 goal, 3 assists
1 game vs Liverpool = 0 goal and assists
seems pretty productive to me thus making that narrative non applicable. You want to stick to hard numbers, no context, when pulling his totals including first season, then you get all flexible and try to contextualise things when asked if football is static and if numbers from the last season and current one do not show he has been producing in big games. “b-but it’s only against xyz not abc” or “b-but his output came from only 2-3 memorable games”. pick a stance, answer what you’re being asked.
I replied on that improvement part. I don't see much changing in the last 2 seasons than his first one. He's not performing "regularly" in these big game neither in these 2 seasons nor his first one.
I didn't say he never showed in big games. The whole talking is about how regularly he impacts big games for us which doesn't seem that "regularly".
Posting the same flawed stat again isn't going to help. Even if we go with your point of only counting the last season and this one, still counting the goals and assists isn't an indication of how regularly he impacts these big games. The indication is how many games he did score/assist. As I mentioned, both his goal and assist against Chelsea came in 1 game for example, the cup game this season. That means he impacted a game against Chelsea 1 time out of the 4 games from your stats. Hardly regularly, is it ?
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Peter BrewerNew Member
Joined:
Jan 11, 2019
Messages:
72
Is it just me that gets annoyed by the way Pogba hug and gets all giddy when he greets the so called top stars of the barcelona opponent players?
Both before and after the game Pogba radiates some kind of "I'm too gifted for man united" attitude.
I mean, it's all right to be friendly with your opponents, but Pogba clearly is an individualist that sets himself above his team. I'm starting to think the old manager was onto something about Pogba.
That grim on Pogbas face when he approaches the Barcelona stars like Messi is radiating; we-belong-together-because-we-are-super-gifted.
Pogba tries a trick or two during the game, but manages to produce nothing to be proud of. He needs a shrink. Never at any point he gets 10% close to the fighting team spirit of McTominay, Fred, Shaw, Smalling, Young, Lindelov, Rashford. Allright, not all these mentioned did great, but at least they tried for their TEAM. None of these showed the overeagerness to bond with the barcelona stars before and after the game like pogba either.
Peter BrewerNew Member
Joined:
Jan 11, 2019
Messages:
72
Is it just me that gets annoyed by the way Pogba hug and gets all giddy when he greets the so called top stars of the barcelona opponent players?
Both before and after the game Pogba radiates some kind of "I'm too gifted for man united" attitude.
I mean, it's all right to be friendly with your opponents, but Pogba clearly is an individualist that sets himself above his team. I'm starting to think the old manager was onto something about Pogba.
That grim on Pogbas face when he approaches the Barcelona stars like Messi is radiating; we-belong-together-because-we-are-super-gifted.
Pogba tries a trick or two during the game, but manages to produce nothing to be proud of. He needs a shrink. Never at any point he gets 10% close to the fighting team spirit of McTominay, Fred, Shaw, Smalling, Young, Lindelov, Rashford. Allright, not all these mentioned did great, but at least they tried for their TEAM. None of these showed the overeagerness to bond with the barcelona stars before and after the game like pogba either.
Nonsense. Shaw, McTominey, Fred, Smalling and Lindelof all were better than their Barcelona equivalents on the night. Pogba played okay, nothing special, certainly not in our top 5 performers on the night.
Dominated as in dominated the midfield role. The problem is not separating the teams results from the individual performance. When someone said he turned up 'regularly' they're including games like the last Liverpool match whilst others saw it as 'missing'. Either way he still impacted on more big games than our main striker and this is mainly unheard of in big teams.
We hardly dominate midfield against any big team though do we ? Under both Mourinho and Ole we have always been losing the possession battle and resort to counters to score our games. I don't remember the last time we entered a big game and really dominated the opposition midfield.
I agree that he impacted more big games for us than Lukaku but is that really a good example ? Lukaku only impacted one big game against other top 5 in these 2 seasons.
But my conversation wasn’t with you?! you interjected yourself in an exchange I was having with someone else and we were talking about productivity, for which I pulled his numbers since 17/18 to show that he has been producing in these games since then thus making that narrative non applicable. Now it’s “impact”, when most sensible people will tell you impact cannot be measured by these stats alone.
Pogba is the least of this team’s worries. Compare him to his peers from the same supposed big teams and I’d hazard a guess their numbers would be lacking to his.
Messi had an average/disappointing game by his standards according to many on here
Disciplined performance though
Disciplined performance though
It's an open forum and anyone has the right to replay on any thing written whenever it's obvious how flawed it's.
Are you even reading at this point or you just scattering random replies?
I’m not questioning your right to reply on an open forum, you positioned the conversation as “the whole talking is about how regularly he impacts these big games” when that is false. That’s not the conversation I was having, that’s not the conversation you interjected in, hence me making the distinction that impact cannot be measured by productivity numbers alone. Be objective and truthful, no more muddying the waters.
You're really the one who don't even read the posts you're discussing. It's hilarious.
Here's the post you posted your stats as a reply on :
Guess what, you only dissected and quoted the bold part to post your stats
:But now "impact can't be measured by productivity numbers alone".
Before throwing advises to someone else to read, try yourself to read the discussions you were starting at first.
Not sure if Ole should rest him for West Ham on Saturday. We need him to secure top four but we also need him fresh and fit for Barcelona next week. He's going to do a lot of on and off the ball running at the camp nou like yesterday
Obviously we have played most of the games vs top opponents while being the counter attacking side being on backfoot. Once we get a team built sround Pogba to be the fominating side of those games, we see much more of him.
You're really the one who don't even read the posts you're discussing. It's hilarious.
Here's the post you posted your stats as a reply on :
Guess what, you only dissected and quoted the bold part to post your stats
But now "impact can't be measured by productivity numbers alone".
Before throwing advises to someone else to read, try yourself to read the discussions you were starting at first.
So I responded to a post questioning his productivity in big games with his recent end product in big games as to show that that narrative isn’t applicable. What are you confused about? Especially when in my first reply I made sure to quote the part I was replying to.
You are the one speaking about impact, and yes you can have an impact without goals/assists
The whole discussion from start to finish before I even enter was about how regularly he impacts and performs in big games. That's what the original poster was talking about. I did nothing new except clarifying your stat has flaws.
Have a good day.
my guy, you even bolded what I quoted and replied to, you know, the part about Pogba not “producing” in big games regularly. that’s why I showed him pogba’s recent end product.
- Status