[Bwuk]

Mental that Fellaini started ahead of him...

 

[EB100]

The implication you have made is that I am judging Pogba based on his race, so whether or not you realise this it is an accusation of racism or racialism.

It is a matter of opinion, and the opinion of many, many people are the same as mine. As I've mentioned previously, I've never seen any other professional footballer start doing kick-ups and flicks near the own goal, before losing the ball. It is reasonable to describe this as unprofessional.

Firstly, Pogba makes himself a target for several reasons that have been discussed previously. Secondly, none of the other players you have mentioned have exhibited the lack of effort and professionalism that Pogba has. You mentioned Martial - I haven't seen him accused of a lack of effort, particularly in the last days of Mourinho's reign when he scored several goals. So why wasn't he drawn into the racialist media narrative? It's because it's not a racialist narrative, it's based on the fact that Pogba behaves, quite demonstrably, in an immature fashion.

Firstly, I think Beckham's work rate and commitment were not in doubt. If Pogba had shown the level of commitment of Beckham, or was turning in absolutely top drawer performances every week, then he would get much less criticism for his other conduct.

Secondly, I can't comment on other people, but I find the completely disproportionate amount of attention that Beckham gets to be nauseating, particularly considering he basically retired at the age of 31, by moving to LA Galaxy.

So I am to understand that Garth Crooks, who is black, who was a pioneering black footballer, who has spoken out against racism in football, does not understand narratives and stereotypes related to black players, and his opinion of Pogba is not objective, but instead informed by racialism?

This is what I said: Pogba attracts such strident negative narratives about his so-called “bad attitude”, “arrogance”, “laziness”, “unprofessionalism” etc from people that do not know him or his situation simply because the combination of his price tag, his extroverted/out-there nature and the fact that he’s black triggers a lot of bias in folks’ minds.

People use bias naturally and race is a key attribute that triggers bias in today’s society. This is just a fact of life, I’m sorry if my saying it offends you. I have gone as far as to provide a very basic real-life instance of this bias in football (brought up by Sterling and the subject of a lot of debate) - take a look and reflect: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46498849

You correctly note that it is all a matter of opinion. And that many in the media share that negative opinion about Pogba’s character. The question is why? In the face of such strong evidence of Pogba’s good character and professionalism (based on what his managers and fellow players say, what he’s achieved, what he does on and off the pitch), why are so many so quick to view his character in a negative light? And the answer is bias. If you were not biased against Pogba, you’d not have personally invented a silly new standard for professionalism that you are applying only to Pogba: conceding possession at the edge of your box while attempting a flick. Ridiculous! Even Scholes and Giggs made mistakes like that.

You keep on bringing up Garth Crooks because he’s black - it’s a fallacious argument. His being black does not make his opinion about Pogba objective, fair or correct. But if you do want to properly consider the race of the people that are so venomous about Pogba’s character and professionalism, take a holistic approach: every time I have heard or read a pundit show a strong dislike for Paul Pogba (as opposed to objective criticism of his performances and not his character), they have almost always been a white male - why is that? Why is the strong dislike for Pogba’s character skewed heavily towards white male pundits? Why are they biased against him?

Just to reiterate - this isn’t about who’s racist and who’s not. I don’t know you or Souness or Charagher or any other Pogba hater enough to call you racists. It is about bias and all of us are biased. In Pogba’s case, and many other black players like Sterling or the young player Sterling references, it is about the quickness with which the English media (and fans to some extent) adopt an extremely unfair and evidence-free negative narrative about the CHARACTER of the players in question.

 

[RMD83]

I think we will see a testimonial.

im sorry but I think you are clasping at straws. However, there will be a Phil Jones testimonial in the near future so don’t despair.

 

[Coxy]

9 goals 10 assists in 23 games.

Not bad at all. We need to get a good team around him or we’ll risk giving him a Gerrard career.

If we win the champions league with him I’d be quite happy.

 

[Jib]

The best midfielder in the world !

 

[JMack1234]

Turns out this guy is decent footballer.

 

[Rozay]

Mental that Fellaini started ahead of him...

Or worse still, the invisible Scotsman.

 

[RMD83]

If we win the champions league with him I’d be quite happy.

Quite happy if we win the champions league? I’d be ecstatic. I’d be ecstatic if we finish top 4 this season.

 

[Carolina Red]

Steph Curry, Rio Ferdinand, Peyton Manning, Eden Hazard, Michael Laudrup...not saying you can't examples of it working the other way but I don't think there's really a trend towards older or younger.

We’re getting off topic, but just for a good read...
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/72413622/null

 

[OldTrevil]

The most impressive pass for me was in the first half, first time pass with his left to release Martial over the top on the left wing

Yeah that pass was exquisite

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

My girlfriend said that Pogba looks & his dancing reminded her of Tracer from Overwatch

 

[Posh Red]

This is what I said: Pogba attracts such strident negative narratives about his so-called “bad attitude”, “arrogance”, “laziness”, “unprofessionalism” etc from people that do not know him or his situation simply because the combination of his price tag, his extroverted/out-there nature and the fact that he’s black triggers a lot of bias in folks’ minds.

People use bias naturally and race is a key attribute that triggers bias in today’s society. This is just a fact of life, I’m sorry if my saying it offends you. I have gone as far as to provide a very basic real-life instance of this bias in football (brought up by Sterling and the subject of a lot of debate) - take a look and reflect: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46498849

You correctly note that it is all a matter of opinion. And that many in the media share that negative opinion about Pogba’s character. The question is why? In the face of such strong evidence of Pogba’s good character and professionalism (based on what his managers and fellow players say, what he’s achieved, what he does on and off the pitch), why are so many so quick to view his character in a negative light? And the answer is bias. If you were not biased against Pogba, you’d not have personally invented a silly new standard for professionalism that you are applying only to Pogba: conceding possession at the edge of your box while attempting a flick. Ridiculous! Even Scholes and Giggs made mistakes like that.

You keep on bringing up Garth Crooks because he’s black - it’s a fallacious argument. His being black does not make his opinion about Pogba objective, fair or correct. But if you do want to properly consider the race of the people that are so venomous about Pogba’s character and professionalism, take a holistic approach: every time I have heard or read a pundit show a strong dislike for Paul Pogba (as opposed to objective criticism of his performances and not his character), they have almost always been a white male - why is that? Why is the strong dislike for Pogba’s character skewed heavily towards white male pundits? Why are they biased against him?

Just to reiterate - this isn’t about who’s racist and who’s not. I don’t know you or Souness or Charagher or any other Pogba hater enough to call you racists. It is about bias and all of us are biased. In Pogba’s case, and many other black players like Sterling or the young player Sterling references, it is about the quickness with which the English media (and fans to some extent) adopt an extremely unfair and evidence-free negative narrative about the CHARACTER of the players in question.

Unfortunately mate you are wasting your time. Some people see the word racist and are automatically too scared to read the rest of your message. You aren’t even calling anyone racist but wait for the responses that say ‘I can’t believe you’re calling me racist’. Says it all really.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Trying to think of the last time a player had a game as good as that for us.

Probably have to go back to Van Persie or something

 

[Jeppers7]

Trying to think of the last time a player had a game as good as that for us.

Probably have to go back to Van Persie or something

Yeah good call....RVP's first season, probably the villa game.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yeah good call....RVP's first season, probably the villa game.

Actually, it would be Depay versus MigitLand(?) ... He was awesome that day

 

[Jeppers7]

Actually, it would be Depay versus MigitLand(?) ... He was awesome that day

That was a ridiculous performance, I have to consider the opponent in that though and the fact that as much as I always wanted him to do well, he didn't really ever do well ! He played well vs Arsenal in his next game though but then just disappeared.

Pogba I think is on another planet.

 

[Stobzilla]

9 goals 10 assists in 23 games.

Not bad at all. We need to get a good team around him or we’ll risk giving him a Gerrard career.

Luckily for Pogba, his trophy cabinet already has surpassed that of Gerrard's.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Luckily for Pogba, his trophy cabinet already has surpassed that of Gerrard's.

That’s actually incredible.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[el3mel]

Trying to think of the last time a player had a game as good as that for us.

Probably have to go back to Van Persie or something

Zlatan in EFL cup final.

 

[championo]

Can't wait until goals like these starts to go in

 

[Z1L3]

It is as clear as day that Pogba sabotaged his manager at the expense of the club. Any fan with integrity must surely be disgusted.

The idiotic dance and his grin were vomit- inducing.

 

[Ferguson]

Pogba the octopus...
Pogba the virus...
Pogba the circus...

...I'm just glad he plays for us!

 

[shahzy]

It is as clear as day that Pogba sabotaged his manager at the expense of the club. Any fan with integrity must surely be disgusted.

The idiotic dance and his grin were vomit- inducing.

I can't tell if you're joking and that's tongue in cheek or not.
I've repeated this multiple times but I'll do it one last time. When your boss talks shit about you to the press do you really think you're going to give it your all come game day? No.

If your boss builds you up and increases your confidence will you perform better? Yes. Because the confidence will cause your game to become elevated.

Its why some managers are able to make players bigger than their sum and others who shall not be named makes them less than their sum. Klopp being another good example

 

[Dante]

I can't tell if you're joking and that's tongue in cheek or not.
I've repeated this multiple times but I'll do it one last time. When your boss talks shit about you to the press do you really think you're going to give it your all come game day? No.

If your boss builds you up and increases your confidence will you perform better? Yes. Because the confidence will cause your game to become elevated.

Its why some managers are able to make players bigger than their sum and others who shall not be named makes them less than their sum. Klopp being another good example

So you're agreeing with @Z1L3 but you're also offering an excuse for why Pogba intentionally underperformed.

I think you two are on the same page. So am I, for what it's worth.

I think Pogba downed tools because he didn't like the manager and the manager was doing a bad job. That being said, it showed a lack of respect to the fans. If you're taking home a wage of 300k per week, effort should be the least you provide, regardless of your personality clashes with coworkers.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Trying to think of the last time a player had a game as good as that for us.

Probably have to go back to Van Persie or something

Lingard v Everton wasn’t too shabby

Edit: Watford, not Everton, got his wonder goals confused

 

[championo]

It is as clear as day that Pogba sabotaged his manager at the expense of the club. Any fan with integrity must surely be disgusted.

The idiotic dance and his grin were vomit- inducing.

Jose was odorous and repugnant. I guess all the players sabotaged him then? I mean look at Matic, look at Lindolef with the ball at his feet. Jose's wanted to play a style of football that was just not suited to us. If you have a boss whose actions are injurious and contrary to everything the club is about, you may find it very hard to do your job. I can just imagine playing for Jose, it will be such tedious chore.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Got him for my FPL team as soon as Jose was sacked. He's turned out to be a bargain. Only cost 7.8m when at thestrt of the season he was closer to 10m.

 

[meamth]

It is as clear as day that Pogba sabotaged his manager at the expense of the club. Any fan with integrity must surely be disgusted.

The idiotic dance and his grin were vomit- inducing.

Matic was shyte under Mourinho as well. Means he sabotaged his own manager?

Bluemoon thread level post. Get out.

 

[deafepl]

The thought of what may happened in January if Mourinho was still here is horrific. Could have lost a genuine elite midfielder. I think he'll go to even higher levels if he's surrounded by the right quality too.

If we get a top offensive fullback that can do something with balls, Pogba could improve our performance to next level with long range passing, a couple of time I saw him making decent passes to Young in Bournemouth game but poor on balls and unable to take players on.

 

[kouroux]

It is as clear as day that Pogba sabotaged his manager at the expense of the club. Any fan with integrity must surely be disgusted.

The idiotic dance and his grin were vomit- inducing.

Like vs Newcastle right when Jose was practically out of the door and he saved him ? Dumbass post

 

[Thepinhead]

Honestly, with these types of performances you'd have to say 90mil is cheap.

Ye it makes me think of the 80 million we got from Ronaldo. Knowing now what he achieved, 80 million was a bargain even in that day and age. Hopefully we will say the same about pogba in 5 years when hopefully we have won the premier league and champions league

 

[MDFC Manager]

It is as clear as day that Pogba sabotaged his manager at the expense of the club. Any fan with integrity must surely be disgusted.

The idiotic dance and his grin were vomit- inducing.

Your Master is no longer employed by United. Not sure what you're still doing here

 

[The United]

So you're agreeing with @Z1L3 but you're also offering an excuse for why Pogba intentionally underperformed.

I think you two are on the same page. So am I, for what it's worth.

I think Pogba downed tools because he didn't like the manager and the manager was doing a bad job. That being said, it showed a lack of respect to the fans. If you're taking home a wage of 300k per week, effort should be the least you provide, regardless of your personality clashes with coworkers.

Yup, same go for Jose as well.

 

[Patrick08]

That's what i'd like to see every week. I hope he destroyes spurs as well and put the fear of man united back in opponents. Ultimately pogba will be judged on big games, we all knew he can do it against roll over teams, but the big games is where he will be truly tested.

10/10 performance last night.

 

[haram]

Personally, I love his dancing.

 

[Dante]

Yup, same go for Jose as well.

Jose got the sack for that and I'm glad he's gone.

I really like Pogba and want him to become a United legend. But that doesn't mean he's free of blame.

Whilst I definitely don't want Pogba to get the sack the way Mourinho did, I do at least think his actions should be acknowledged for what they were regardless of any excuses. It was unprofessional of him at the very least.

By the way, I don't get why every criticism of Pogba comes back with "Jose was worse". Though I agree, I'm not bothered about Jose because he's not at the club anymore. Stalin was even worse than both, but you don't see me bringing his name up everywhere (apart from here).

 

[RooneyLegend]

Jose was odorous and repugnant. I guess all the players sabotaged him then? I mean look at Matic, look at Lindolef with the ball at his feet. Jose's wanted to play a style of football that was just not suited to us. If you have a boss whose actions are injurious and contrary to everything the club is about, you may find it very hard to do your job. I can just imagine playing for Jose, it will be such tedious chore.

It's as if fans don't understand that the style of football can determine the level at which the players perform.

 

[The United]

Jose got the sack for that and I'm glad he's gone.

I really like Pogba and want him to become a United legend. But that doesn't mean he's free of blame.

Whilst I definitely don't want Pogba to get the sack the way Mourinho did, I do at least think his actions should be acknowledged for what they were regardless of any excuses. It was unprofessional of him at the very least.

By the way, I don't get why every criticism of Pogba comes back with "Jose was worse". Though I agree, I'm not bothered about Jose because he's not at the club anymore. Stalin was even worse than both, but you don't see me bringing his name up everywhere (apart from here).

I agreed with you on the previous post.

I also agree with you here that Stalin was worse than both too. By the way, do you know who is worse than Stalin?

 

[kaiz]

So you're agreeing with @Z1L3 but you're also offering an excuse for why Pogba intentionally underperformed.

I think you two are on the same page. So am I, for what it's worth.

I think Pogba downed tools because he didn't like the manager and the manager was doing a bad job. That being said, it showed a lack of respect to the fans. If you're taking home a wage of 300k per week, effort should be the least you provide, regardless of your personality clashes with coworkers.

Not really. The way I see it: Everyone was miserable, him, his teammates, the staff, the fans(well most of them, not sure about you) even Mourinho. Manchester United as a club was suffering. Pogba risked his own reputation, he knew he would be booed by some of the fans (not me of course), he knew the pundits and journalists would slaughter him in the media. He sacrificed himself to save everyone and finally we can be happy again, even Mourinho. So if you think about it, he must be up there with Jesus. Thank you Paul!