That's all fine and you don't have to but you can't defend that performance. The lad doesn't have a professional bone in his body.
6
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That's all fine and you don't have to but you can't defend that performance. The lad doesn't have a professional bone in his body.
I've literally not defended his performance, I agree it was disgraceful.
You can't say he's not a professional though just because he played badly, you're letting your emotions cloud your judgement.
You have this idea that all he does is upload pics & vids on instagram - even though he's training 3/4 times a week, plus exercising up to 2 times a day, as well as having to adjust his diet & lifestyle around his regime to ensure that he's able to play every 3/4 days.
If that isn't professional, then i'm not entirely sure what you think is?
Should he delete all of his pics and videos of him having fun and smiling? Would he be professional to you then?
On his day he's capable of amazing things. He's not showing it. Confidence is low. The team dynamic isn't quite right. Some players could overcome all that and hammer stamp themselves into being the man who turns those things around. Obviously thats not him. At this stage there is nothing to suggest we cannot get the world class performances from him in time and get around his other issues by buying or naturing those qualities from someone else....believe it or not there were a handful of games when even Keano who typified all the qualities Pogs is lacking couldn't get into a game at all, looks out of sorts and off the pace and couldnt meet his own exacting standards....rarely perhaps but even the greats have poor spells and in those spells it often looks like they couldn't give 2 shits....Berbatov is prob a better example....who was also came for a big sum at that time
Having a bad game or even month I dont mind, being out of form happens to all players, Sanchez was equally poor but he fought hard so I can't say more than that he had a bad game, Pogba on the other hand chose the knockout stage of the Champions League to sulk and protest, thats very unprofessional. If you would look through my posting history you would see that I'm really not quick critique players or the manager. You're right my emotions are taking over and I apologize for that but Pogbas behaviour on Tuesday was simply unacceptable and totally unprofessional. What he does on his free time is his thing but as a fan I get annoyed even angry when he doesn't even care on the pitch, even more so in such an important game for us.
He has abundant talent no arguing that and on his day he's world-class but simply doesn't have the mentality to utilize it. That's what makes him even more frustrating.
Sanchez lost the ball 42 times I think it was? That's a terrible performance, of course he's a trier and will run around until the last minute - but in the end he was doing more harm than good. Not saying he was worse than Pogba, they were both very bad in different ways.
But they're still professionals,
It was a bad game, but it's in the past now and we can't keep continuing to get upset about it because it's over.
We move on, and hopefully allllllll of the players show heart in the next match.
I made a post in the Jose thread, I don't think Pogba is the leader, I think he is a motivator and someone to keep the team in good spirits, integrate new team members, and generally bring positivity. But he's not the Keano or the Rio, that's just not his personality imo - and there's nothing wrong with that either.
So if we're looking for him to be the leader, I don't think we'll get the best out of him.
We are pretty much on the same page, and I agree Pogba is absolutely no leader, to immature for that. My anger comes from him not trying, not because he had a bad game should have expressed myself better.
He does have the mentality. He was playing great at Juve and was showing himself capable of being a world class player. We need to get that out of him. Correction...Jose needs to get that out of him. We've had one 2 many players look like worldies before joining us and then not replicating that form for us. We need to give this abit of time to see if he can turn it around. Biggest blow for me for awhile watching United but huge lows like this can sometimes help a team in the longer run. People acting like Jose doesn't want it as much as us.....the guy would kill to get one over on Pep right now...all he needed was for a performance closer to that showed against Liverpool....he didn't get it...back to the drawing board!
Pogba was trying. He was very frustrated when he passed wrongly. He also ran a lot and also tried shooting.
He's actually pretty lethal in front of goal too.
He's actually pretty lethal in front of goal too.
“Paul, I’ll give him a little bit of advice – change attitude a bit,” he told RMC.
“He should stop making it a Mourinho-Pogba duel, because the club of Manchester United is much more important than those two guys.
“Right now, he’s making it personal and you can clearly see that on the pitch as he is sending out a lot of negative signals.
“It gets tiresome when you’re sulking permanently.”
This is what I think is happening aswell, I've had arguments with people higher ranked than me at previous jobs but it never stopped me from doing my job and giving 100%.
So it is about his Instagram... You want him to appear more miserable.
It's not about instagram but he looked so happy on instagram whereas his teammates are so down.Don't care about his maturity level off the pitch unless it effects preparation. Many players, especially in England are overgrown man-children with little grounding in reality, and it is not really their fault. Lingard comes across like a 15yo school kid, but has clearly demonstrated an increased maturity and focus in games.
Extremely disappointed by the lack of reaction from Pogba to the questions being asked. That does not mean I expect world class performances, goals and crazy assists, but a demonstrable increase in urgency, energy and fight would be a step. He has been sulking and it makes me doubt that he will ever have the mentality to be a reliable leader for the club. Can give you brilliant moments but build around him? Don't see it with his current mentality.
Extremely disappointed by the lack of reaction from Pogba to the questions being asked. That does not mean I expect world class performances, goals and crazy assists, but a demonstrable increase in urgency, energy and fight would be a step. He has been sulking and it makes me doubt that he will ever have the mentality to be a reliable leader for the club. Can give you brilliant moments but build around him? Don't see it with his current mentality.
Well put, This is pretty much what I've been trying to say in my previous posts but my emotions kept taking over. He has everything in him to become great except the mindset. You show your true colours when things are hard and not going your way not when everything flows perfectly.
I'm aware. Should we not look at it and wonder why he's not doing it more regularly, years on? Or at least some level slightly closer to this on a consistent basis. Just playing with that energy would help, but then the whole team is crap at that.
Exactly how do you tie that in with having Martial and Sanchez though?
Like you said in that game he's basically backed to the hilt with a very defensive setup so allowed a free role on the left.
It may be that Jose was planning on using him as such in a 352 with Perisic as the wingback but now we have Lukaku, Sanchez and Martial i don't see how he fits in.
I think he'd be best put as the 10 in a 4231 but its not ideal for him or the team as we'll be too open and have no link between midfield and attack
His team mates are just better at putting on a show for the public.
Pogba is a happy guy, he was probably gutted just like the rest of them but life goes on.
I think we need to move towards a 4-4-2 formation. All the top teams in Europe are using it and we should follow suit.
DDG
Valencia Smalling Bailly New LB
New CM Matic New CM Pogba
Lukaku Martial
To use Pogba in this formation means that Sanchez/Martial/Rashford need to fight it out for one spot and this is a problem. It gets the best from Pogba but it creates selection headaches for the manager because we can only use two up top and Lukaku is guaranteed to be one.
Another option could be this:
DDG
Bailly New CB Lindelof
Valencia Matic New CM New LB
Pogba
Lukaku Martial
It's definitely frustrating but I don't thinks there's a system that can include Pogba, Sanchez and Martial all in their best positions. It's impossible IMO. We need to prioritise strengthing our midfield in the summer. It's a long way away from the best in Europe. We need at least two midfielders.Valencia Smalling Bailly New LB
New CM Matic New CM Pogba
Lukaku Martial
To use Pogba in this formation means that Sanchez/Martial/Rashford need to fight it out for one spot and this is a problem. It gets the best from Pogba but it creates selection headaches for the manager because we can only use two up top and Lukaku is guaranteed to be one.
Another option could be this:
DDG
Bailly New CB Lindelof
Valencia Matic New CM New LB
Pogba
Lukaku Martial
A lot of people say Pogba needs two midfielders behind him but sometimes he had THREE midfielders behind him at Juventus. Not all the time but sometimes.
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Pogba have a unique persona, the happy-go-lucky kind of person, too positive most of the times. At times, he behave "weird" or socially off, which can rub many people the wrong way as it is usually socially not appropriate eg. disrupting both Jose and Klopp during the post match interviews, posted happy vids and stuffs while we've just got big lost, too friendly towards opponents in games, etc.
Not expecting him to change, but to adjust slightly eg. realise the timing of his actions, and behave accordingly.
Not expecting him to change, but to adjust slightly eg. realise the timing of his actions, and behave accordingly.
Yep. Marketing & merchandising.
Need to get back in form, sooner the better.
He can easily run the show for us.
Don’t be daft. See tweet above.
I'm not being daft. I've said this since we signed him. I've mentioned it to my friends "in real life" also. There's no way, from a footballing ability perspective, that he was ever a 90 million pound footballer, nor should he ever have been the most expensive footballer in the world.
However, the money was made back more or less instantly due to his marketability. That's a huge factor these days in player signings, whether you like it or not.
We had a lot of these discussions on here with Anderson son son, while their talents differ their mentalities of wanting a free role to roam and the issues this causes are quite simmilar.
No it wasn’t. This wild notion of huge income off shirt sales and the like needs to stop.
I dont think he was trying, it appeared to me that was there going through the motions. Since he and Jose had the falling out a few weeks ago he hasnt been quite right. I'm not sure exactly whats going on but I hope he and Jose are able to sort it out so we can win
Sure. You tell yourself that. It's all about his ability as a footballer.
Nah, you’re right, it’s all about that 90mil+ of shirt sales he’s accumulated in his mind.
Amazing potential but we need to be patient. Same with Martial and Rashford as I think they are quite immature and emotionally in their attitude at times.
Nope. Not just shirt sales. World record fees are broken, they further increase the global popularity of the brand of MUFC. Then, yes, there are shirt sales. Then there are other things involving his image rights. And of course there's the fact that Adidas have him as one of their clients etc. Everything is all linked. His marketability played a huge factor in the size of the fee. To deny that is just silly.
World record fees for any playern increases global exposure; you're getting your cause and effect mixed up here.
If he wasn't good enough we wouldn't have bought him. He was in the team of the year for 3 consecutive years at Juve. Was in the UEFA team of the year in 15' and finished 5th in the Balon Dor. Voted best young player at the last world cup too. People seem to be reimagining what type of player he actually was before we bought him. To say he was bought because of marketing and merchandising is, frankly, ridiculous.
That's not what I said. I said his fee of 90 million pounds is hugely inflated because of his value for marketing and merchandising. To claim it's 90 million based on his footballing ability is frankly absurd and naive. He's a good player, but he's not best player in the world material, nor should he ever have been the most expensive, from a purely footballing perspective.
Yup, in reply to your saying it wasn't purely potential. I agreed, it wasn't purely potential, it was also marketing & merchandising. Perhaps I didn't spell it out, but it's what I was implying. I can see the confusion though.
Hmmmm ok.
Haha, it was. I mean, I'm not dumb enough to think they're going to hire some marketable player ... who can't play worth a crap. Hell, I'm sure Pele is still marketableHmmmm ok.
So yeah, he has potential. But for me, he never has been a player who should have been the world's most expensive. I think he's a good player. But I don't think he's great. And I think it's debatable if he'll ever be great.
For me, he hasn't shown it in enough big games. And recently, his temperament and determination have really sickened me. So I just right now can't see him scaling the heights. But maybe that's recency bias working against him.
Haha, it was. I mean, I'm not dumb enough to think they're going to hire some marketable player ... who can't play worth a crap. Hell, I'm sure Pele is still marketable
So yeah, he has potential. But for me, he never has been a player who should have been the world's most expensive. I think he's a good player. But I don't think he's great. And I think it's debatable if he'll ever be great.
For me, he hasn't shown it in enough big games. And recently, his temperament and determination have really sickened me. So I just right now can't see him scaling the heights. But maybe that's recency bias working against him.
Ok mate. Fair enough. Let's just hope he at least finds the form her had early in the season.
Just watched the highlights again , which indeed proving what damien duff said about him. He is daydreaming , can't smells danger , he was the closest one to Seville assist man & only ball watching , didn't check behind his shoulder. If he could sniff out danger he would get closer ready to challenge the player. He is such a huge liability when we have to defend , first Sevilla goal was his fault
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