This. Can't believe that some people want to sell him after one bad patch
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I don't agree with all of your previous post but it was well put together, my view is that if we mercifully got rid of Mourinho in the summer I'd wait and see what the next manager could do with Pogba is he was the kind of front foot manager with a footballing identity that could see Pogba shine, as I think Pogba needs structure and we haven't got any, the formation changes nearly every game, the demands of the players and their tasks change every game as Mourinho has no footballing identity, he simply sets his teams out to negate the strengths of the opposition.
I don't think there is anything personal involved, I think the realization has just finally set in that they aren't compatible as player and manager. Jose has wanted him to become an all round box to box and has given him 18 months to become that, Pogba is never going to be that player and the more he is hammered for failing to be that player the more his confidence and enthusiasm has drained. Mourinho played him in his favoured position vs Everton and he shone, so he IMMEDIATELY switched him out of that role the next game, which makes absolutely no sense, but regarldess it was done and then Mourinho brought in a player who operates in all of the same attacking zones as Pogba and he's just gotten worse and worse.
Wouldn't be blaming him too much for last night. He wasn't on the pitch for the first two thirds of the game and it didn't stop us playing like we were warning up for a training session.
Also makes a bit of a mockery of subbing him off and dropping him for not staying in position, when you then put fellaini in the same position, in the same system, and have him do exactly the same thing. I mean I agree with not putting up with it from Pogba, but what's the difference here aside from the fact fellaini is a worse player than him?
But yeah his attitude is still shocking. He's had his kick up the arse and the reaction has been to either sulk or go completely into his shell. Not sure which it is but neither is encouraging.
Also makes a bit of a mockery of subbing him off and dropping him for not staying in position, when you then put fellaini in the same position, in the same system, and have him do exactly the same thing. I mean I agree with not putting up with it from Pogba, but what's the difference here aside from the fact fellaini is a worse player than him?
But yeah his attitude is still shocking. He's had his kick up the arse and the reaction has been to either sulk or go completely into his shell. Not sure which it is but neither is encouraging.
There’s not a chance he’s not trying, or being lazy. When he’s playing well he still moves like he does.
His confidence has gone and it looks like he’s overthinking everything. Not sure the best way to get him going again but Jose needs a solution quickly.
His confidence has gone and it looks like he’s overthinking everything. Not sure the best way to get him going again but Jose needs a solution quickly.
Fellaini was supposed to be out of position because he was supposed to be an out ball. When we got the ball out wide, he wasn't in midfield, but on the back post. He was often the furthest player in the team, because he was pinning back a defender for a hoof into the air. Pogba was not our designated hoofball target, but was arguably worse positionally than Fellaini.
The problem with Pogba at the moment, is that he is a geniune midfielder unlike Fellaini, and other players expect him to do certain fundamentals, so they act according to that. But Pogba failed to do them which left a giant gaping hole where he is supposed to be.
For their 1st goal, Pogba was in no man's land in the centre circle, there was a turnover of possession and for some reason he was still contemplating making a run forward. The assist man for the Sevilla goal actually started further away from our goal than him, but he simple jogged past him and Pogba either had no clue or didn't care.
Definitely agree with that and it'd be rash to get rid. Maybe some other manager could turn him into a brilliant player that his talent should bring. But he just pisses me off on the pitch so much and feel like his attitude just isn't the right attitude despite the talent. I'm not realllly saying I hope he gets sold. More like... i wouldn't bat an eyelid or be too upset really. Like of course best case is get a manager that can bring his best qualities and get pogba to turn into a world class player consistently. But that's Not all on the manager. Pogba takes a big share of the blame for how he's played. Some players give their all, have had great and shit performances against any range of opponents. Pogba is one of the few who just don't look like they put in 100%, who exclusively plays well vs cannon fodder and goes missing when it gets tough. That's the attitude that pisses me off and makes me say yeah, Mourinho is a big problem, but Pogba is also part of the issue.
Ask yourselves this, you beat us without him.
You're right on his attitude, I have cut him a lot of slack as I don't think he's had a settled peroid playing in his best position, but in recent weeks we aren't just seeing poor performances, we are seeing performances without effort and heart, that is a worry I agree, and that is on him, I mean people are always on about Martial's supposed sulky demeanour, but no matter how much he gets messed around by Mourinho he at least looks like he's putting effort in when he's on.
Yep exactly that. Others get messed about. Others are less suited to Mourinho's style then Pogba. Others are in and out or shifted around or don't get quite the game time they deserve. Almost all of them fight their way back into the team from the bench though, work hard on the pitch, don't sulk, don't have stories come out or things like that. That's the problem with Pogba. Plenty of valid things regarding his position, play style or whatever else. No excuse for attitude.
So far at least, Pogba has not been the player who delivers in big games for United. His best effort is probably 2 assists away at Arsenal before getting sent off. However, his track record against modest opposition is pretty good, especially for a central midfield player.
Could we win tons of matches against middle and lower table sides with say Matic and McTominay in midfield ? It would require McTominay to offer a lot more going forwards than he has to date. If we opt to bring in a new player then there is the danger of all the issues we have had with previous signings, in that they seem to solve one problem but cause another. We've bought at least one midfield player every summer since Sir Alex retired.
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What's the question?
I think what we are seeing is a player who has been mollycoddled and pandered to for most of his career, and this is the first time he's not been treat as a crown jewel and is having questions asked about his ability and also his mentality, and he's not responded well.
Plus his level of application and effort in reserves matches fell off a cliff in response to him feeling annoyed about the manager’s decisions. Instead of upping his game to force the manager to pick him he started sulking and stopped trying. The warning signs were there all the way back then.
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Are Liverpool overrated?
SAF didn't "allow him to leave". He tried hard to make him stay. Pogba was offered more money than Juventus offered. It was just playing time that was the issue.
Is this the scouse version of a question?
This. His recent performance hard to say which one is more likely, is he still out of form or...
Last time around he had attractive offers from other clubs. My understanding is that Raiola asked around quite recently and found no interest from the big teams.
SAF was right about so many things...even when he wasn't he was so determined that he would correct them. He said that Phil Jones was like Duncan Edwards, then he realized that he isnt and won the title with him anyway.
Wrong.
He tried everything to keep Pogba.
He said Jones could be our best ever the season he retired. The game we won the title against Villa.
He did want to keep Pogba. The potential in him was obvious. Of course he wouldn’t let such a talented youngster leave. My point about there being warning signs about Pogba’s attitude still stands though.
SAF tried to keep Pogba, yet felt that he wasn't showing enough in the reserves to be a regular starter...he identified that Pogba needed to work harder on his game. 'He tried everything to keep Pogba', except playing him, so basically he felt that Pogba was a good talent, but not mature enough to play for the 1st team.
This is a man that will give any half decent academy player a chance in the team, if they show the right attitude they will get games. Pogba was very good as a youth player, so when a manager like SAF doesn't give you games, then he thinks you are not committed to playing under him.
He gave him a few games as an 18 year old and didn’t take the risk on him in the Blackburn game (which we still lost) around that year. So he left to Juve and become one of their most influential players and won numerous trophies. I’d say Fergie might just have got that wrong.
As shit as he has been recently and as much as I can’t give a feck whether we sell him or not, I just don’t fully blame him for his current form. Footballers are passionate about football and the atrocious football they are being asked to play rarely ever gets them excited to perform. The type of football Mourinho has us playing needs more Drinkwater and Bakayoko than Pogba and Sanchez.
We need to dominate teams with footballing ability and not just work rate.
We need to dominate teams with footballing ability and not just work rate.
What did he get wrong exactly? He considered him a good talent, but not the right level to lead the team to a league title. The season Pogba left we won the league and he retired, seemed like a good judgment call to me.
It's not as if SAF thought Pogba was a bad player; he wanted him to stay. but Pogba had other ideas.
Obviously. He was 18 years old.
He got it wrong by handling the situation in a way in which we lost Pogba that year. Yes, he won the league title afterwards, but we were woefully short in midfield. That’s fine when you’re as good as Ferguson but that ended up costing us big time with Moyes’s shitshow and the Fellaini panic buy.
Remember when we all laughed off claims in the press that he'd be unhappy playing second-fiddle to Sanchez on and off the pitch? Maybe there was something in that.
He's not good enough to build the team around and make the main man.
You put up with Messi and Ronaldo demanding things and throwing strops because they're scoring 60 goals a season and winning you the title or the Champions League.
If Pogba has thrown his toys out the pram because of Sanchez then his attitude is even worse than I thought
I'm not going to disagree with that, his succession planning was atrocious. But I don't really see how he got it wrong with Pogba, Scholes said himself that Pogba was not putting in the effort and was angling for a move. From the looks of things, Pogba felt that he was ready to make the step up, while SAF didn't, so he left.
From the way he played at Juventus, I would say he was right. Pogba didn't really get going until 2014/15, and even then he was a periphery figure in the team. He became a key figure for them in 2015/16 which got him all the accolades.
Yes Pogba was a fantastic prospect, but when he wants a move there's very little you can do about it.
Dare I say, yesterday almost felt like he was intentionally playing bad.
I dont know if its just his confidence issues or he just is not playing for the manager. At a time, when everybody is calling out on his defensive contribution he is not putting the work rate expected from him. Besides, he is not doing enough in attacking sense either.
Please bench him for next 2-3 games or if you have to play, play him in 3 man midfield.
Please bench him for next 2-3 games or if you have to play, play him in 3 man midfield.
78 games, 12 goals, 20 assists.
I know he had some ‘bad luck’ with Ibra not converting his passes last year but is it now getting to the point where his numbers are likely a true reflection of his ability?
I know he had some ‘bad luck’ with Ibra not converting his passes last year but is it now getting to the point where his numbers are likely a true reflection of his ability?
Back in Jan,
King Pogba's stats
Most assists in Europe's top five leagues this season:
Paul Pogba (9 in 13 games)
Neymar (9 in 14 games)
Philipp Max (9 in 18 games)
Pione Sisto (9 in 19 games)
Leroy Sane (9 in 21 games)
Kevin De Bruyne (9 in 23 games
Pogba however, has not been on the losing side for 35 consecutive league games.
Pogba also put in a spectacular shot during the game and is only 24 year old.
It’s seven more games than Gabriel Jesus, who is currently unbeaten in 28 games.
Pogba’s run includes nine wins and four draws this season and the overall record dates back to 2016.
King Pogba's stats
Most assists in Europe's top five leagues this season:
Paul Pogba (9 in 13 games)
Neymar (9 in 14 games)
Philipp Max (9 in 18 games)
Pione Sisto (9 in 19 games)
Leroy Sane (9 in 21 games)
Kevin De Bruyne (9 in 23 games
Pogba however, has not been on the losing side for 35 consecutive league games.
Pogba also put in a spectacular shot during the game and is only 24 year old.
It’s seven more games than Gabriel Jesus, who is currently unbeaten in 28 games.
Pogba’s run includes nine wins and four draws this season and the overall record dates back to 2016.
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Some of the passes were a pisstake. I said the same thing after the game
Those are good numbers considering he has mostly been played in a double pivot.
The problem is that he only seems to reserve his 'best' for when we are playing weaker opposition. He has been very poor in nearly every big game he has played for us and has shown zero leadership capabilities.
If he were playing for another club now and had been a poor for them we would be laughing at them for paying out so much money on such an average player.
I don't think we should give up on him yet , there is good player in there somewhere but I worry about his attitude. Is he really serious about been a world class player who wins trophies or is been a celebrity footballer enough for him.
- Status