Started the season very well, hasn't been the same since his return from injury. Don't know what's up but he has to cop on.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Please watch the goal again. Pay attention to Pogba's positioning and "awareness" throughout the phase of play. When Valencia has the ball, Pogba is deeper than number 17, the guy who plays the assist. He's also about 2 yards away from him. Valencia plays the ball up the line. Pogba ball watches. As usual. 17 drifts into space.
It's really hard to sympathise with him. There was a lot of shite last night in terms of individual performances but pretty much all of them worked reasonably well aside from Pogba (still low energy team performance mind).
You intuitively pick out Pogba because he's not even putting in the effort. With every other player, despite whatever limitations they might have, I find myself looking at how Mourinho is setting the team up and how he's coaching them. With Pogba, I really can't take that side at all. Because even if he was getting coached by Schteve McClaren, he shouldn't be performing like he is right now.
You genuinely wonder is he depressed or something.
You intuitively pick out Pogba because he's not even putting in the effort. With every other player, despite whatever limitations they might have, I find myself looking at how Mourinho is setting the team up and how he's coaching them. With Pogba, I really can't take that side at all. Because even if he was getting coached by Schteve McClaren, he shouldn't be performing like he is right now.
You genuinely wonder is he depressed or something.
I think pogba has all the talent to succeed here and hope he does.
Playing devils advocate, would you exchange him as part of some sort of fee plus player deal for neymar?
Playing devils advocate, would you exchange him as part of some sort of fee plus player deal for neymar?
I think there's a huge difference between Sanchez and Pogba. Both are playing really, really badly right now. However, Sanchez will get some leeway, as he's playing for a new team, in a new city, in a new system. He's trying to find his feet. However, he still tries. He runs around like a loon, he tracks back etc. The problem people are having with Pogba is that he's absolutely mailing it in right now. His effort is completely lacking and that is 100% unacceptable. He needs a long term benching (4 or 5 games) to kick him up the backside.
Out of form = acceptable.
Not trying, strolling around, not tracking back = unacceptable.
Yes let's get another attacker operating primarily from the left.
Another Diva? No thanks. I'm actually starting to think Jose's comments about McTominay being humble and wanting to learn are directed to Pogba. Would I mind if he sold him? Not if he's going to act like a child the rest of his stay here.
Am I wrong, or his team mates clrearly don't like him that much? The body language on that clip is quite revealing.
We were all so frustrated by what we were seeing from him yesterday. The fans around me were going absolutely bezerk, and you can't blame them, he showed no fight nor spirit. It was 0-0 when he came on and it actually felt like the wrong change - must admit, even I thought to myself "Oh God, either he's going to win this for us or it'll be like playing with 10 men and we'll have a big void in the middle of the park." Sadly the latter turned out to be true.
As others have said, he needs a huge kick up the backside. Obviously an extremely talented lad, but if he can't cut it mentally, then he doesn't deserve to be in the squad.
As others have said, he needs a huge kick up the backside. Obviously an extremely talented lad, but if he can't cut it mentally, then he doesn't deserve to be in the squad.
Another left wing? Why not
Out of form is a poor excuse. An 100M player out of form should still show glimpses of brilliance. Pogba hasn't shown none whatsoever in this match.
Not sure what's going on with him at the moment, whether he's just got a nagging niggle that's affecting him. Some players just aren't good when they're not confident in their body. That may be making excuses though.
When he played that simple ball out of play with about 4mins left under no pressure, that was like the game summed up in a moment.
EDIT, just saw this page started with the clip!
When he played that simple ball out of play with about 4mins left under no pressure, that was like the game summed up in a moment.
EDIT, just saw this page started with the clip!
That was just inexcusable.
No pressure on him, and with 4mins to go still, the insanely optimistic like me still thought we could get back into it.
But that moment extinguished it.
Nevermind the pass, we couldn't figure out what he was doing so deep. At lot of the Pogba issues in recent months have been blamed on Jose playing him out of position. Surely last night he wasn't sent on as a sweeper, yet he spent most of the time ambling about near the centre backs.
When he's been discussed people keep referring to his lack of 'confidence,' as a major problem, but for me one of the issues is that, as a big money signing who's realistically heading into his prime years and who should be one of our driving forces from midfield, we can't really afford for him to be a player who has lapses in confidence when things don't really go his way. Especially when he's now in his second season and should be settled.
I don't like to bring up Roy Keane, because when people refer to his mentality they forget he's someone who managed to miss important games because of rash challenges in the heat of the moment and that he's someone who once abandoned a World Cup because he was unhappy with the training regimes, but I seriously doubt he'd have been having lapses in confidence and using that as an excuse for poor form. I dunno...maybe I'm recalling wrongly through nostalgia-titled lenses and as someone who's too young to remember certain portions of his United career, but I don't think he'd have ever been using that as an excuse at all. And the same can go for a lot of top players.
Hopefully he's just injured, although if he is I'd be concerned as to why Mourinho was using him as a sub in a game we needed to win.
I don't like to bring up Roy Keane, because when people refer to his mentality they forget he's someone who managed to miss important games because of rash challenges in the heat of the moment and that he's someone who once abandoned a World Cup because he was unhappy with the training regimes, but I seriously doubt he'd have been having lapses in confidence and using that as an excuse for poor form. I dunno...maybe I'm recalling wrongly through nostalgia-titled lenses and as someone who's too young to remember certain portions of his United career, but I don't think he'd have ever been using that as an excuse at all. And the same can go for a lot of top players.
Hopefully he's just injured, although if he is I'd be concerned as to why Mourinho was using him as a sub in a game we needed to win.
Not making excuses but he seems to be playing through pain. Of course he could easily make that pass.
But Sanchez is the one who's caused the unbalance and disruption to the team since his arrival. Pogba has been the main one who's been affected by Sanchez being shoehorned into the team. All the stats prove this. Pogba was doing just fine before he came so why should Sanchez be given leeway when we have sacrificed the teams balance to accodomate him and he's not performing?
Not that I disagree, but surely it's the 3rd season we can fully expect someone to have settled as players tend to show a bit of themselves the first season and get 2nd season syndrome before fully settling?
Because he tries. He's not performing, but at least he's trying.
So, things change and Pogba sulks? He should be given leeway for this on past performance? No. Teams change, players change, tactics change. But you play with heart and effort. He's been strolling around since Sanchez came, not good enough.
Incidentally, I'd like to see Sanchez benched for a while as he finds his feet, get back to Martial on the left, but I don't see it happening.
It's definitely a strange one.
I'm one of those who up till recently would have bad Pogba as one of the most exciting players to watch. At the same time, I've never felt he is an elite/absolutely top class footballer due to his weakness in tight games/general intelligence in pressure moments/split second, while the potential/natural talent is of the highest quality.
Now he has obviously been piss poor of late and it's shambolic no matter how highly you rate him. But while he has no business in not putting in the effort or giving away possession like a drunk, one has to wonder why it's with us that he is this poor. Was the treatment by Jose, signing him out etc. really necessary? Has it done the player and the team a favor or harm? To me, while I've always acknowledged the players weaknesses, I dont think he can be this bad without going through some sort of mental/relationship-at-the-club crisis.
So, both player need to be held accountable for this shit show of phase from such a talented player who was on fire in the early parts of the season for whom we paid a fortune.
I'm one of those who up till recently would have bad Pogba as one of the most exciting players to watch. At the same time, I've never felt he is an elite/absolutely top class footballer due to his weakness in tight games/general intelligence in pressure moments/split second, while the potential/natural talent is of the highest quality.
Now he has obviously been piss poor of late and it's shambolic no matter how highly you rate him. But while he has no business in not putting in the effort or giving away possession like a drunk, one has to wonder why it's with us that he is this poor. Was the treatment by Jose, signing him out etc. really necessary? Has it done the player and the team a favor or harm? To me, while I've always acknowledged the players weaknesses, I dont think he can be this bad without going through some sort of mental/relationship-at-the-club crisis.
So, both player need to be held accountable for this shit show of phase from such a talented player who was on fire in the early parts of the season for whom we paid a fortune.
Well he's also clearly more in favour than Pogba. I agree that Sanchez works harder and Pogba had hit new lows of late. But there are question around both Jose's big names as well as what he's getting out of them. If we signed Sanchez to be a work horse who aimlessly runs around give me Martial anyday over that.
There's isn't really any definitive way of judging how long it'll take a player to do well when they join a club, but I'd argue a lot of top players hit form instantly, and that the 'settling in' factor tends to be over-exaggerated a little bit. RVN was a goal machine from the moment he signed for us, as was RVP, an 18-year old Rooney largely hit the ground running and while it took him years to develop into a top player was always a reliable fixture in our side, VDS was an instant success, Vidic and Evra didn't start well in January 2006 but hit their stride by 06-07, and Tevez played well for us from the start.
There are cases of players who took a long time to settle in, but in a lot of cases I'd say by the time someone's in their second season at a club those initial bedding issues should be sorted, especially when they're not only a hyped up prospect but an already-experienced key player who's been signed for (at the time) a world record fee.
Yeah but Sanchez joined midway through the season and doesn't generally look as terrible as Pogba does. His poor form has been over a stretch of around 7 or 8 games is it?
Pogba on the other hand has failed to generate any real consistency ever since he joined. Defenders of his game pointed to burnout after playing a full Euro campaign, then towards injury disruption and then towards tactics. But you can only make so many excuses for him, really.
Again, I don't really disagree. But if we're making assumptions based on what people generally say, then it's after a possible 2nd season syndrome that players are settled in and playing to their abilities.
In general I think as you (if my reading comprehension hasn't gone down the drain) that it'll all depend on the club, team & player.
I'll be going a bit off the topic now.
I believe Pogba is having 2 issues:
1. For some reason, he's trying too hard to look effortless/classy instead of making sure he gets it right. A lot of simple passes go bad. Could be down to wanting to appear better or due to having issues with his price-tag, or something completely different. I still think he is struggling with doing the simple things properly.
2. He is rather slow at reacting for when he needs to do the defensive stuff.
I see him run enough, the issue is that when he loses the ball he spends a fair amount of time standing there to recollect himself, catch a breath or be annoyed over his own or his team-mates failures.
When he does get his head back in it he is far behind the player who has the ball and cannot make up the space without a sprint, which he doesn't do all the time, likely because it would drain his stamina.
Overall I think the issues with our team is a lot down to how we're set up to play, as Lukaku, Martial, Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Lingard & Mata should be able to produce better attacking football if they are given a platform to do so on.
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I think a big part of the problem is that he definitely believes in his own hype. Which is ok when you’re actually producing.
What we have at the moment is a worst case scenario, the manager doesn’t trust him and he doesn’t trust the manager. He’s lost all confidence, looks he doesn’t really care and in his mind he’s a complete victim which is a bullshit attitude really. Shouldn’t matter if you’re playing under Gary Megson, show your quality and desire to win.
What we have at the moment is a worst case scenario, the manager doesn’t trust him and he doesn’t trust the manager. He’s lost all confidence, looks he doesn’t really care and in his mind he’s a complete victim which is a bullshit attitude really. Shouldn’t matter if you’re playing under Gary Megson, show your quality and desire to win.
Of course. I'm not saying that Sanchez has been as poor as Pogba. But for such an established/mature player (much more than Pogba) he's been very disappinting as well. Funnily enough based on this form, if you'd chuck them both out and just go with the kids in Martial/Rashford/Mctominay we'd actially be better off which actually nuts. It's like were managing to create problems where nine should exist.
Pogba has been poor since Sanchez came but we've already seen what he can do in our team this season. Sanchez has been poor pretty much all season and since he came he hasn't had one good game whilst affecting everyone else's form at the same time. Yes he tries but we signed him to make an immediate impact not to disturb the balance we had and make things even more difficult. He should be benched and Martial takes his spot for a while.
I've missed the body language experts trying to find some controversy in our side. But I mean, might it just be because they were about to go out of the champions league if they didn't score 2 goals in 4 mins?
Someone has to do the useless body language analysis, I guess. If the reason is that, than what a demoralized team we have.
That little video clip just highlights a problem that i brought up last week in this thread, and that's his complete and utter nonchalance when he's on the pitch. And that doesn't just apply to him when he's not in possession, but when he has the ball he still shows this casual lack of concern. We know he can play some sublime passes, he's done it numerous times for us, but he can be so bloody blasé when he's on the ball sometimes. I can't forgive that. It's awful, particularly from a supposed elite player.
His lack of urgency is infuriating. It's almost as if the game of football itself is beneath him.
His lack of urgency is infuriating. It's almost as if the game of football itself is beneath him.
I agree with you, I'd rather see Martial in there right now. In fact, he was in great form before Sanchez was signed, so I think he has been very harshly done by. But, with regard to Pogba v Sanchez, and who is playing worse, my point stands - both are brutal right now. But Sanchez gets some leeway in that it's a new system and team to him, and he's putting in effort. Pogba has been here a while and is strolling around.
Again, I agree. I would much rather Martial in the side, and Sanchez was infuriating me yesterday, I don't think he should have stayed on the field.
My point is that he gets more leeway than Pogba right now, in my mind, because of the reasons I've stated. And mainly because of Pogba's complete and utter lack of effort, which is absolutely unacceptable in my opinion.
I remember Rooney coming off the bench years ago against Crawley Town at home in the cup and he put in a similar level of performance. He clearly could not be arsed to come on against some non league side and he played like that too. He was dreadful.
Now I still think that what Rooney did was unacceptable but Pogba did the same thing yesterday but in a fecking Champions League knockout game that was still 0-0 and totally in the balance. Like he felt it was insulting to have to come on and he couldn't give two fecks. There has clearly been some sort of fall out with Mourinho and it's like Pogba has gone into sabotage mode.
If we could get our money back in the Summer I'd seriously consider selling him.
You're being very disingenuous to Kevin De Bruyne here. He's twice the player Pogba is and the key reason for that is the application and professionalism . De Bruyne has always been a workhorse and he's taken it up a notch under Guardiola.
He was shunted out to the right wing by Pellegrini a lot but he never sulked despite not liking it. There was never any downturn in his input. He adapted his game, accepted his managers choice and is arguably one of the best crossers of a football in the world.
Mourinho is not a saint and there's things he's not getting right but he's absolutely not to blame for Pogbas pathetic performances.
It is odd. Reminds me of the time where we were slowly looking better when Di Maria was on the bench for Ashley Young, before it became a permanent fixture. Same with Falcao to some extent.
Big names have flattered to deceive here.
I totally agree mate. But he wasn’t like this before his injury. Something has happened behind the scenes. He looks like he has lost all motivation under Mourinho.
The same professionalism which went missing when he wasn't prepared to fight under Jose and decided to seek pastures anew? why didn't he knuckle down stay at the club and try to prove the manager wrong and break his way into the side? there was also criticism about the way he trained.
KDB put his own career first and rightfully so. Yes he might be twice the player that Pogba is, and I do not support Pogba effectively going on strike but it is what it is, and as far as I can see the way Jose has mistreated certain players, he's getting a taste of his own medicine and he is to some extent to blame for some of Pogba's pathetic performances as he was also to blame for the pathetic performance of most of the entire team last night. It is a manager's job to motivate the players, if you are unable to do it in a home CL knockout tie.. there is something severely wrong with your management of the side.
It looks like something is bothering him, and it is worth remembering that not a huge amount of time has passed since he lost his father.
So I would be keen to avoid being overly harsh when it comes to criticising his apparent lack of motivation etc.
So I would be keen to avoid being overly harsh when it comes to criticising his apparent lack of motivation etc.
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