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2016-17 Performances

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6.3 Season Average Rating
Appearances
51
Goals
9
Assists
6
Yellow cards
10
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11101 said:
:lol:

So because the heatmaps disagree with you they're rubbish now?

It was a 4231 all day long. Fellaini and Herrera with Pogba ahead of them.
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If the heat map shows Pogba being further forward than Fellaini then it's purely because the latter was trying to get back when we lost the ball. Pogba on the other hand wearily ambled back a lot of the time.

I think there's two main problems with him at the moment. Firstly he's keeping hold of the ball far too long; it's as if he either thinks he has a lot more time than he has or he feels that he needs to showboat to show he's contributing. This is not only causing him to lose possession, but even more irritatingly is slowing down our attacks, as even we he does beat his man a few others have got back into position. Secondly he only shows his pace, determination and power when trying to get forward. If he showed this desire in helping defensively I think straight away people would give him a break.

The one positive thing is that both of these things aren't talent or ability related. However our coaches need to be proactive in pointing out these flaws and explaining that his price-tag does not mean that we're interested in seeing delicate chips, long range screamers and bits of skill in the middle of the park. We want to see him using his pace, power & technique to dominate midfield.

In the mean time I'd like to see in tricky games him playing alongside two player's who are more defensively aware. I think he'll be fine alongside Herrera and behind Mata against the likes of Burnley at home, but against City on Wednesday I'd like to see Carrick, Pogba and Herrera in midfield.
 
unitedbhoy said:
He's either out of shape or a lazy bastard, I fear it's the latter. All this talk about his position isn't as significant as on the field effort. There's no excuse for laziness in competitive matches, never mind big games like this where we are getting hammered.
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I think there is a misconception. When I and others say Pogba should be playing in a 3 man midfield, it's not only to get the best out of Pogba. It's to get the best out of United because Pogba has deficiencies. Pogba is a guy that will go forward, and he is also just a very lanky player strolling around the pitch. He only gives you these bursts in speed when he wants to make a tackle, to dribble, or he sees a golden attacking opportunity up the pitch.

You can see the problem with this right? That means he won't always be available to start attacks through his passing like a Carrick would do. This also means that he won't always be a player you can rely on for defending. This is why I have wanted Herrera and a guy like Carrick, Blind, or Schweinsteiger paired up with him in a 3 man midfield. The latter position being a player who are as good of passers as Pogba, but always available for the pass and always willing to sit back to help protect the back 4. The Herrera or Schneiderlin position is needed to help out the attack or defense through energy the other 2 midfielders lack.

This is why I don't like Fellaini paired up with Pogba. Fellaini is not only slow, but he's not particularly great defensively, nor is he a great passer. It's just the wrong player to pair up with Pogba. That's not even all Fellaini's fault. That's because of Pogba's current deficiencies. So Pogba is to blame for this too, it's just that I knew he was like this at Juve.

I have said Pogba has needed to improve in 2 things in order for him to become a top 3 midfielder, perhaps even the best midfielder. One is his ability to control a game through his passing, and the other is to increase his energy. He has the passing ability, technique, and composure for the former. However, the latter is what would make the former possible too without sacrificing his attacking instinct.

Still, there are times when the right partners or position doesn't matter. The goal for the Chelsea fourth is one of those moments where he should be more attentive and if it has nothing to do with awareness, than it's just him being pure lazy. He needs to quickly get rid of that or he will rightly get criticized for it.
 
finneh said:
If the heat map shows Pogba being further forward than Fellaini then it's purely because the latter was trying to get back when we lost the ball. Pogba on the other hand wearily ambled back a lot of the time.

I think there's two main problems with him at the moment. Firstly he's keeping hold of the ball far too long; it's as if he either thinks he has a lot more time than he has or he feels that he needs to showboat to show he's contributing. This is not only causing him to lose possession, but even more irritatingly is slowing down our attacks, as even we he does beat his man a few others have got back into position. Secondly he only shows his pace, determination and power when trying to get forward. If he showed this desire in helping defensively I think straight away people would give him a break.

The one positive thing is that both of these things aren't talent or ability related. However our coaches need to be proactive in pointing out these flaws and explaining that his price-tag does not mean that we're interested in seeing delicate chips, long range screamers and bits of skill in the middle of the park. We want to see him using his pace, power & technique to dominate midfield.

In the mean time I'd like to see in tricky games him playing alongside two player's who are more defensively aware. I think he'll be fine alongside Herrera and behind Mata against the likes of Burnley at home, but against City on Wednesday I'd like to see Carrick, Pogba and Herrera in midfield.
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Agree with every word of this.

It's infuriating the way he lets runners go past him without making any effort to track back. I thought we'd got rid of that sort of midfield half-arsery when we moved Anderson on. That Kante goal was a diabolical piece of midfield play from him and just one of many examples of him literally walking back while opposition players sprint towards our goal. Trying to blame incidents like this on him not being played in the precise formation he needs to excel is missing the point, spectacularly.

Like you say, though, this is not about a lack of ability. The bollockings will hopefully get through to him and he'll start to get to grips with what it takes to be a top class PL central midfielder. Because, right now, he's a loooooong fecking way short of fitting that description. And yes, while he's still a work in progress the only possible way I think we can accomodate him is with Michael Carrick in the same team. We don't have another CM with the same knack for always being in the right place when the opposition have the ball and that's an absolutely vital requirement if we're going to keep picking the Pogba we've seen so far this season.
 
Worryingly he doesn't look much improved on the player we let go to me. Flashes of brilliance but his work rate is non existent. The defending for Kante's goal is worth dropping him for by itself.

Still early days, he's played less than 10 PL games in his career so expecting significant improvement. Should be rested midweek.
 
ZDwyr said:
Needs to up his game and needs to do it now. Shouldn't have got his shirt, I have clearly cursed him.
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It's all my fault. I've gotten a Di Maria jersey and Memphis in the past.

Ibra/Pogba this season. Clearly I need to stop doing this.
 
hirotan69er said:
Yeah, but he wasn't asked to be a playmaker at Juventus though. If he had the same role/function then those Stastitcs are worth considering.
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He was actually beyond awful at the start of last season which had people questioning whether Pirlo/Vidal made him look better than he actually is. Once Marchisio & Khedira returned he began looking much better though & had a strong finish to the season where he was scoring/assisting ever week.
 
He was pretty bad to start last season, and he turned it around. Albeit, in a more functioning team.

Hopefully the same happens again. Still think the price tag is getting to him though. Jose needs to have a talk with him.
 
BlueCelery said:
He was actually beyond awful at the start of last season which had people questioning whether Pirlo/Vidal made him look better than he actually is. Once Marchisio & Khedira returned he began looking much better though & had a strong finish to the season where he was scoring/assisting ever week.
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See? You're mentioning the names of other players. Which is why I exactly said he's not a playmaker. So what is the point of making the comparison here? He scored against Bayern but how did it happen? He picked up the ball by himself.

edit:

Juventus sunk down to 12th in early part of last season because Alleguri tried out that dysfunctional 4-3-3 with Hernanes. Pogba and team's performance improved AFTER the manager decided to switch back the formation to 3-5-2. I think he did OK playing LCM in 4-1-2-1-2 before Pirlo left. Just being a workhorse and not being the center of universe.
 
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Messi I dare say would not save this team if it performs like it did on Sunday. We need to get the playing style right and sort out the fundamentals before we can expect champagne football. Having a player like Keane to grab the game by the scruff of the neck is not Pogba's game and we shouldn't expect that from him. The team lacks heart and I'm quite worried at the moment. I don't trust the majority of the players right now. What I wouldn't give for a Rio and Evra. I though BFS would help us in that regard, but let's not even go there....
 
Lack of form is forgivable but the blatant lack of effort isn't. He could be the best player in the world but if he isn't going to work hard on the pitch then he'll never justify his reputation.
 
He's absolute quality and if he went to Bayern, Real or Barca you'd see a different player. I know of very few World class players in poor teams but I know many in good ones. We could sign Messi tomorrow and he'd look poor in this team. For a sport that needs 11 players on the pitch, more than 50% IMO aren't the quality we need to compete. They maybe good squad players but teams in the prem man for man generally have better starting 11's. We need better players before we see Pogba's quality.
 
FC Ronaldo said:
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Technically he's good but if you look at the other way in his game he made many poor decision making like he should have pass the ball but instead he tried to beat his man and lose the ball easily and you cant do that as a midfielder in a top club and sometime he was just ball watching when the opposition had the ball. He will come great I believe but how long it will take that's the issue is because if he keep playing like a kid in school yard the pressure will be even bigger and also might cost us top 4 as well.
 
Stats are pointless. Pogba could put 100 chances on a plate and if we only scored 2 of them, it would look like he's doing a poor job.

He's had some good games, some bad games. He's 23 and will only get better. People just need to be patient.
 
According to Jose ''"With the quality of his pass, with his aerial game, with his agility in such a big body, for his defensive side of the game, coming from the back with the ball, he would be a phenomenal central defender, too."''

Make of that what you will, but surely not?!
 
Martial_Law said:
According to Jose ''"With the quality of his pass, with his aerial game, with his agility in such a big body, for his defensive side of the game, coming from the back with the ball, he would be a phenomenal central defender, too."''

Make of that what you will, but surely not?!
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He could certainly play there, maybe in a Guardiola team that's what he would do. Obviously not a Mourinho tactic though.
 
Martial_Law said:
According to Jose ''"With the quality of his pass, with his aerial game, with his agility in such a big body, for his defensive side of the game, coming from the back with the ball, he would be a phenomenal central defender, too."''

Make of that what you will, but surely not?!
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Quote means nothing without context. Where did you get it from?

I'm sure he was just bigging up how versatile he is. In the same way you'd occasionally hear Fergie mention how good Rooney was as a goalkeeper, without some eejit deciding that meant he might get a game in nets.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Quote means nothing without context. Where did you get it from?

I'm sure he was just bigging up how versatile he is. In the same way you'd occasionally hear Fergie mention how good Rooney was as a goalkeeper, without some eejit deciding that meant he might get a game in nets.
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It was a Sky Sports interview, I'm not sure where the original link is but its here also : http://www.tribalfootball.com/artic...um=rss-feed&utm_campaign=Feed-Latest+Articles

(i dont know how you do the whole 'spoiler' thing to hide links, if a mod could sort that please or tell me what to do :) )
 
Martial_Law said:
It was a Sky Sports interview, I'm not sure where the original link is but its here also : http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/pogba-so-good-he-can-be-a-top-centre-half-man-utd-boss-mourinho-4152421?utm_source=moreover&utm_medium=rss-feed&utm_campaign=Feed-Latest+Articles

(i dont know how you do the whole 'spoiler' thing to hide links, if a mod could sort that please or tell me what to do :) )
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Thanks. That looks like a snippet of a longer interview. Would be interesting to read the whole thing.
 
Martial_Law said:
Got it : http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-paul-pogba-needs-time-to-readjust-at-man-utd

think he's just generalising Pogba's abilities on the whole, whether it would work or not im not sure but he would be a monster CB hahaha.
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Thanks. Not a bad interview. Agree with pretty much everything he says, especially this bit.

"The problem is not the position. The problem is not the tactical system. The problem is, in my opinion, somebody that comes from a different style of football and needs this time to be at his best level in football that is really difficult to play, especially for midfield players."
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Pogue Mahone said:
What a clown, you can't seriously think he believes those are all the assets needed to be a monster CB?

Sure what does Mourinho know about good central defenders anyway?
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Not neccesarily that but it's just ridiculous, Pogba doesnt even make a good defensive midfielder let alone a CB in the prem. His concentration is poor, he lets player escape from him very easily, never mind his positional sense, defensive nous, an organisating other players in defence. He just has the physique to be one, but I hope Mourinho said that jokingly, havent seen the video.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Stats are pointless. Pogba could put 100 chances on a plate and if we only scored 2 of them, it would look like he's doing a poor job.

He's had some good games, some bad games. He's 23 and will only get better. People just need to be patient.
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This.
 
Mino Raiola did compare him to the Mona Lisa.

But so far we've had the fake rather than the original.

Maybe there wasn't one in the first place.

Fergie has been vindicated by wanting to give him time to bed into the first team.

He simply wasn't ready.

But I still think he'll come good. Scholes and Lampard at 23 were nowhere near the level of shimmering brillance they showed in later years.

But Pogba has to release the ball at the right time. That's his number one problem. A few Fergie riot acts might have made the penny drop.

Hopefully Jose still possesses the fire within to do the same. If not, then we're in serious trouble.
 
redflair said:
Mino Raiola did compare him to the Mona Lisa.

But so far we've had the fake rather than the original.

Maybe there wasn't one in the first place.

Fergie has been vindicated by wanting to give him time to bed into the first team.

He simply wasn't ready.

But I still think he'll come good. Scholes and Lampard at 23 were nowhere near the level of shimmering brillance they showed in later years.

But Pogba has to release the ball at the right time. That's his number one problem. A few Fergie riot acts might have made the penny drop.

Hopefully Jose still possesses the fire within to do the same. If not, then we're in serious trouble.
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Oh come on. How does his current performances have anything to do with Fergie and Pogba of 4-5 years ago?
 
In Rainbows said:
Oh come on. How does his current performances have anything to do with Fergie and Pogba of 4-5 years ago?
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Maybe they don't.

But perhaps one of the greatest managers of all time simply thought he wasn't quite ready.

It's hardly a controversial view judging on his performances over the past four or so years (and yes I have seen many of his games for Juve, France and now for us).

We all want the same thing - but the player needs some seriously strong management right now to get the best out of him.
 
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