He's either out of shape or a lazy bastard, I fear it's the latter. All this talk about his position isn't as significant as on the field effort. There's no excuse for laziness in competitive matches, never mind big games like this where we are getting hammered.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 51
- Goals
- 9
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 10
- Status
Well if we're just talking central midfielders both Hererra and, yes, Fellaini have played far closer to their potential under Mourinho than Pogba. So Pogba stands out as being particularly bad, compared to our other options in the same position. Feck it, 34 year old Carrick's got a good claim for having been more consistently effective in our engine room.
If we take your logic to its conclusion than the manager is to blame for everything and we might as well not discuss individual performances.
Juventus must be laughing their holes off.
I can't fathom what people see in Fellaini. The guy holds us back beyond belief. He may have been performing to near his potential, but that says more about the poor standards we have at this club.
Pogba also has the excuse of not being anywhere near as settled down as the other two that you've mentioned.
In any case, not quite sure why we are arguing. I agree that Pogba can do a hell of a lot better and that he needs to take responsibility for his performances.
But I also reckon that we have a manager who is struggling badly to settle on a proper system, something that disappoints me a little given how quickly he seems to have done this in his previous roles.
Some valid points, but he was doing his bits at Juventus, I watched him a lot there, he did the hardwork too.
Been a massive, crushing disappointment so far.
He was fecking shit today, a lazy sloppy nothing performance.
He was fecking shit today, a lazy sloppy nothing performance.
Discipline is the key aspect he needs to develop while we are without a true holding CM, if Mata is in the midifield 3 he is going to have to take up better positions deeper in midfield.
Seen a few mentions of the word lazy. When people call a CM lazy that is a huge problem.
Toure lazed his way to a few titles at City tbf.
Toure was lazy defensively but 20 goals and 10 assists can take the heat off a little bit. I don't think Pogba is particularly lazy, he just looks slow. Like a drunk Viera when defending
Needs a rest.
Pogba was at his best at Juventus playing alongside Pirlo a vastly experienced superbly organised midfield player who had the know how to guide Pogba through games to encourage him forward into space and play those telling passes to him to bring out he best in him , we play him with Fellaini the most useless, limited ,talentless lump of a footballer probably our worst ever buy alongside him for gods sake put Carrick alongside him with Herrera picking up the pieces behind .
this season is in danger of getting away from us already .
I said at the end of last season that we needed at least 6 or 7 players the squad ( largely thanks to flat face buying rubbish ) is bloody awful when you are loing at Chelsea and your centre back is injured and the answer is to bring on Rojo ( who's only talent is making Felaini look good ) says it all
The squad is a master class on poor buying
Darmian
Rojo ( 2nd worst buy after Fellaini )
schneiderlin ( remember him )
Memphis ( manages to look worse with every game )
Fellaini beyond dreadful a laughing stock
Schweinsteiger ( remember him )
Add to this that Mkhtaryan remains a mystery snd Martial looks like he would rather be anywhere else and the problems are building .
Jose needs another 2 transfer windows and another £200m to sort this shambles out
this season is in danger of getting away from us already .
I said at the end of last season that we needed at least 6 or 7 players the squad ( largely thanks to flat face buying rubbish ) is bloody awful when you are loing at Chelsea and your centre back is injured and the answer is to bring on Rojo ( who's only talent is making Felaini look good ) says it all
The squad is a master class on poor buying
Darmian
Rojo ( 2nd worst buy after Fellaini )
schneiderlin ( remember him )
Memphis ( manages to look worse with every game )
Fellaini beyond dreadful a laughing stock
Schweinsteiger ( remember him )
Add to this that Mkhtaryan remains a mystery snd Martial looks like he would rather be anywhere else and the problems are building .
Jose needs another 2 transfer windows and another £200m to sort this shambles out
So we should spunk another 200m on players who know how to 'guide him through games'.
Enough of the excuses.
Enough of the excuses.
True, but they also could of won more if he wasn't as lazy. They've had the best squad by a good margin for years now, yet not one back to back title.
What do people expect us at fans to do? We've spent a world record fee on someone many considered world class (or at least on the verge of world class). It hasn't been brilliant so far, and the media and oppo fans are turning on him. Signing Pogba was supposed to be near enough a guarantee to a marquee, but also superb player who can dominate games and score some absolutely magical goals. We reflected this in our marketing campaign, and as fans in our pre-season hype. So it's natural as fans we're going try and defend him to the hilt, because our pride is at stake but also if Pogba flops here, where do we go next? We've already broken the world record fee, do we go and outdo ourselves?
For everyone criticising him, what's the solution? Are we going to end up selling him?
For everyone criticising him, what's the solution? Are we going to end up selling him?
He is a complete waste as a number 10.
He should play alongside either Carrick or Morgan or Blind. We are making the same idiotic mistake as we had with Di Maria or even Mata. When you buy your record player, you play him where he is best. And if needed you shift the rest of the team to follow suit. You don't rotate your best player around the field. It's pointless to spend a 100m on a top player if you don't know where exactly he would play, what role he will execute and so on.
He should play alongside either Carrick or Morgan or Blind. We are making the same idiotic mistake as we had with Di Maria or even Mata. When you buy your record player, you play him where he is best. And if needed you shift the rest of the team to follow suit. You don't rotate your best player around the field. It's pointless to spend a 100m on a top player if you don't know where exactly he would play, what role he will execute and so on.
and new haircut
Well...I don't know, Pirlo looked like he was always looking for Lichtsteiner and wasn't really looking at where Pogba was.
What was Ed Woodward thinking paying that price?
He was a 10 today. We have never played a 3 in midfield.
As somebody who was flying the Pogba flag whilst he was in the u18s, I'm massively disappointed in what I'm seeing right now. Perhaps he's in bad form or low on confidence, but i saw a much more tactically astute, balanced midfielder in him whilst he was being brought through here the first time.
I think his performances are starting to paint a picture of how he was handled at Juve. My interpretation is that they've indulged him too much and not taught him anything on how to play in midfield properly. This is probably due to them being by far the best team in their league and also having a shit hot midfield around him to allow him to play on talent alone.
His performances just scream immaturity to me. He plays like a very talented kid in a man's body. In the u18s (i know its a lower level) he played like the next Paul Scholes with the ability to carry the ball when the opportunity arose, and he carried out his duties with far more intelligence.
And as i said since they day we signed him again, he is not a no.10.
I think his performances are starting to paint a picture of how he was handled at Juve. My interpretation is that they've indulged him too much and not taught him anything on how to play in midfield properly. This is probably due to them being by far the best team in their league and also having a shit hot midfield around him to allow him to play on talent alone.
His performances just scream immaturity to me. He plays like a very talented kid in a man's body. In the u18s (i know its a lower level) he played like the next Paul Scholes with the ability to carry the ball when the opportunity arose, and he carried out his duties with far more intelligence.
And as i said since they day we signed him again, he is not a no.10.
They were doubling-up on him most of the match.
Patience.
Chelsea DID play well, unfortunately.
Patience.
Chelsea DID play well, unfortunately.
Another game, another hiding. Has Liam miller returned?
Spot on. His talent is there for all to see, but right now he looks more like a talented academy player than anything else. He over complicates things to much , tries to be to fancy and looks very much like hes playing for himself. His defending is also fecking lazy at times.
With the way he plays, the haircuts, adds and stupid fecking celebrations he looks like a man who has bought into his own hype to much. Its infuriating really, because if he only applied himself he would tear up the league.
Hope Jose rips into him and gets him in line because the honeymoon period is over and its time he started to justify that enormous price tag
oh dear, he was even more invisible than I feared!You heard it wrong then, I guess in Swahilli 'Poga' means goal and 'Poba' is goal attempt. You thougnt you heard Pogba. I don't remember his name during the game.
He and Fellaini don't play well together.
Nonsense.
Was never the right player for us. Crazy.
Please stop mentioning Toure guys. He became lazy in the last few years. This was a guy who was a quality DM at Barcelona and could play the 6 or 8 to a high level. Then after he became lazy you were still probably getting the best all round midfielder in terms of qualities going forward. He was a goal threat, could strike it from far, could carry it. Then he was some who would control a game for City too. Pogba is nowhere near that level yet.
Like I repeated at Juve the controlling the game work was done by other players and he was allowed to get forward and wreak havoc. When your team is dominating the vast majority of games you get more opportunities on the ball to do that, when you aren't you need to make the opportunities you get count. Pogba has always been a sloppy player but chances are he would do something for you in the 90 minutes which would lead to a positive outcome. He isn't doing that and his limitations are glaring. Games pass him by, his decision making is poor, sloppy on the ball. I can count 3 good performances from him since we signed him: Southampton, Leicester and Fenerbahce. The others have been a mix of average and poor. He need specific coaching from Mourinho he isn't a player who can be given the freedom to go out there and do what he wants anymore. Could he do with better midfielder partners? Probably, but his performance issues would remain. He is that stage in his career where he needs to iron out the mistakes in his game, he has been a first team player at the highest level for 4 years now.
Like I repeated at Juve the controlling the game work was done by other players and he was allowed to get forward and wreak havoc. When your team is dominating the vast majority of games you get more opportunities on the ball to do that, when you aren't you need to make the opportunities you get count. Pogba has always been a sloppy player but chances are he would do something for you in the 90 minutes which would lead to a positive outcome. He isn't doing that and his limitations are glaring. Games pass him by, his decision making is poor, sloppy on the ball. I can count 3 good performances from him since we signed him: Southampton, Leicester and Fenerbahce. The others have been a mix of average and poor. He need specific coaching from Mourinho he isn't a player who can be given the freedom to go out there and do what he wants anymore. Could he do with better midfielder partners? Probably, but his performance issues would remain. He is that stage in his career where he needs to iron out the mistakes in his game, he has been a first team player at the highest level for 4 years now.
Think you need to go and check a formation/heatmap and look where he played yesterday.
We have played 4231 in every game so far and against Chelsea Pogba was the 10.
Bullshit.
Fecking heatmaps. Christ. Use your eyes. We played with three in midfield against Chelsea and Liverpool. Against Liverpool both Hererra and Fellaini were deep but against Chelsea it was only Hererra holding, with Fellaini and Pog in more advanced roles.
Mourinho said as much himself afterwards. Saying we were set up to be offensive, even though he'd picked the same team as our last league game.
You can argue the toss about the difference between a 10 and an AM in a formation like we had against Liverpool (bugger all difference, if you ask me) but against Chelsea he was blatantly playing as one of two CMs who were playing ahead of Hererra in a three man midfield.
He's an 8. As a 10 there just not enough room for him to do his stuff.
So because the heatmaps disagree with you they're rubbish now?
It was a 4231 all day long. Fellaini and Herrera with Pogba ahead of them.
I don't think that's true at all.
When he was in the U-18s and in a lot of reserve games he was just so much better than everyone else on the pitch he could do pretty much whatever the hell he wanted. In his final season, though, there were a lot of games where a lot of the failings we've seen this season were very much in evidence. Strolling around, being far too casual, not tracking runners, wandering out of position and generally letting the game pass him by. We even saw this for the first team, when he started a Carling Cup game and was absolutely hapless and came very close to being subbed off at half-time. A lot of people (me included) saw this as justification for Fergie not picking him. He was still just a talented kid with a lot to learn about game management and the positional elements of his role. But when he hit the ground running at Juve we began to wonder if he was maybe just demotivated by not getting enough first team games and that was why he wasn't kicking on for the reserves as much as we'd hoped/assumed he would. He just needed a manager to show some faith in him to be at his best.
In fact, that's my biggest worry about him. It's that he's still showing now, aged 23, so many of the problems I would have previously put down to the naivete of youth. It's almost as though he learned very little while at Juve, for whatever reason. And you could be right about him being over-indulged there. Not to mention the slower pace of the football being more suited to a player who can be a bit casual.
All of which means he has a hell of a lot still to learn to be a top PL midfielder and the trajectory of this learning curve will have a big impact on how our season pans out. I still have faith because he's just so damned talented but I have to admit I'm massively disappointed by what I've seen so far. He doesn't seem to have developed his game in Italy half as much as I'd hoped he would have. Which is a big kick in the balls for our hopes in the season ahead.
So because the heatmaps disagree with you they're rubbish now?
It was a 4231 all day long. Fellaini and Herrera with Pogba ahead of them.
You're talking out your arse. Seriously. Watch the game again.
Flat track baby elephant
I feel that unless we dont have the right set up and position for him, we wont see him shine
Bar flashes like on Thursday, he's been fecking garbage.
I always thought he wasn't the bestest player in the world ever when he was at Juve (like some would have had you believe)... but I still figured him to be a very good footballer... he's barely showing that at all so far for us.
I always thought he wasn't the bestest player in the world ever when he was at Juve (like some would have had you believe)... but I still figured him to be a very good footballer... he's barely showing that at all so far for us.
Needs to up his game and needs to do it now. Shouldn't have got his shirt, I have clearly cursed him.
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