Im willing to be sympathetic about match winning performances and about being a £90m player but he's not even delivering the basics like retaining possession of simple passes.
When he is not invisible he is verging on being a liability.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 51
- Goals
- 9
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 10
- Status
When he is not invisible he is verging on being a liability.
He needs to quicken up his play. He does the right things but labours and Liverpool had 3-4 men around him before he finished executing his play. He wasn't bad today, nor was he good. Average performance I think.
For me, has to play next to Herrera, not in front of. He needs time on the ball and space to break into , as an attacking midfielder he's going to have at least two players close to him at all times , but as a DM box to box , he's naturally going to get more time on the ball when we intercept/ opposing teams attack breaks down.
He is not the man to play behind our striker. I'd rather see him play left mid in a 4-4-2 than in the AM role again
He is not the man to play behind our striker. I'd rather see him play left mid in a 4-4-2 than in the AM role again
Of course I see the differences and I hope beyond hope that Pogba is our future heartbeat. But something needs to change for him as the current methods aren't working for him or the team.
Nothing all night... Lost the ball all night, no hold up and slack passing.. Only player that made Pogba look close to a player tonight was Zlatan. The blues brothers stank up the place tonight.
He needs runners in behind. The one moment of magic he produced was when Ibra decided to move. If he gets more movement around him, then he'll pick the players out. Just don't think Ibra is the type of player up top that will bring the best out of him.
That said, I felt the comments from Mourinho, in regards to Pogba lacking penetration and that he about to put Rashford in his position was interesting.
That said, I felt the comments from Mourinho, in regards to Pogba lacking penetration and that he about to put Rashford in his position was interesting.
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Him and Ibra fought hard for worst player of the night. It happens, he'll bounce back.
According to Mourinho, we expected Liverpool to show up with a single sitting midfielder. So the plan was to put him in the area were he could get space.
I think we designed our entire game to bypass the CM's after the "first-base" debacle against City. The gegenpress thing shuts down a DM box to box, or so we believed at least.
In most situations I'd agree with you though.
He didn't have a good game individually, but wing play was nonexistent and there was barely any runners around him when he had the ball. He only had Zlatan to play with on attack, who also didn't have a good game and lost a lot of the few balls that got to him. People need to calm down with their sensational remarks. Pogba is world class and it's a matter of when not if he begins to consistently deliver.
It is a work in progrees, it is frustrating of course but we need to be patient. His best position is still unclear and our tactics as a team are still unclear.
People disappointed with his performances are the ones who had hardly seen him before he came here and simply got swept in the frenzy of 'Pogboom' and the 'most expensive' tag. Just because Woodie had a hard on for breaking the world transfer record to acquire his next marketing project, it doesn't mean that Pogba is anywhere near the quality of player on the pitch to ever justify that price tag.
He has always been a highlight reel player who has few answers against teams that are ready to press him and deny him space. He is neither a central midfielder like Scholes, nor is he an AM magician like Iniesta. He is a player who can produce moments of magic in a game when given freedom by his central midfield and space by the opposition.
I am certain he'll perform better as the season progresses and he adjusts more to the team and the league. There will be plenty of moments to cheer against smaller teams, and may be one or two against the big ones, but anyone expecting him to transform our style of play or dominate midfields is on for a huge disappointment.
He has always been a highlight reel player who has few answers against teams that are ready to press him and deny him space. He is neither a central midfielder like Scholes, nor is he an AM magician like Iniesta. He is a player who can produce moments of magic in a game when given freedom by his central midfield and space by the opposition.
I am certain he'll perform better as the season progresses and he adjusts more to the team and the league. There will be plenty of moments to cheer against smaller teams, and may be one or two against the big ones, but anyone expecting him to transform our style of play or dominate midfields is on for a huge disappointment.
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More people beginning to call a spade a spade then. He needs to improve a lot to to avoid being another terrible waste of money. I bloody hope he does.
Great post couldn't agree more. What we need is a Scholes and Carrick type to add and we have a brilliant midfield. Pogba is class but he's not going to dictate play. He's going to produce individual magic like his cross for Zlatan. He will come good and people are way over critical of him. He will prove to be a great buy.
He needs to step up his game seriously.
Could have had 3/4 assists easily by now if the players finished the chances he created.
Agree with all of that except the part in bold. He's very good in getting out of tight spaces and beating the press. Has the physicality and the quick feet for it. Didn't happen for him yesterday but it was an off night for him. Moreover, in situations like these you need players around you to help out with a passing option or ones making a run in behind who you can release. Neither of the 2 were happening yesterday. You're spot on about the rest of it though.
He'll come good. He's way too talented not to. I get that the price tag will yield expectation, but we have to be patient with him.
Anyone who has seen him the past 4 seasons, and seen how good he can be, will definitely give him time.
Anyone who has seen him the past 4 seasons, and seen how good he can be, will definitely give him time.
Not sure I understand all the criticism to Pogba. If people thought we were buying a highly creative #10 or a Lampard-esque attacking midfielder, people were bound to be disappointed. He's hit the ground running at United and is already a real presence in midfield.
As much as I am a fantasy football aficionado, there is far more to being a complete midfielder than just goals and assists. Pogba's a real threat going forward, but also offers a hefty contribution when the other team do not have the ball.
I'm curious which bonafide central midfielders people think have been better in the Premier League this season? De Bruyne is arguably playing as one and has been excellent, but I do not have any further names. Joe Allen has also been very good.
Part of the issue may be that our first three central midfielders (Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini) have all offered a greater contribution without the ball than they have with it.The balance is still not quite right between defence and attack, but that should not deflect from the fact that those three are all playing very well individually.
As much as I am a fantasy football aficionado, there is far more to being a complete midfielder than just goals and assists. Pogba's a real threat going forward, but also offers a hefty contribution when the other team do not have the ball.
I'm curious which bonafide central midfielders people think have been better in the Premier League this season? De Bruyne is arguably playing as one and has been excellent, but I do not have any further names. Joe Allen has also been very good.
Part of the issue may be that our first three central midfielders (Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini) have all offered a greater contribution without the ball than they have with it.The balance is still not quite right between defence and attack, but that should not deflect from the fact that those three are all playing very well individually.
People saying he isn't a 6, 8 or 10, it isn't that clear cut, those numbers are different in different setups. For me, he is best in a diamond on the left (Where he played at Juve), and considering the money we spent and our lack of top class wingers, I am not sure why no-one brings it up, I think (below) would suit us perfectly in terms of making the tactic fit the personnel
RomeroDDG
TFMValencia BlindBailly JonesSmalling DarmianShaw
CarrickBlind
FellainiHerrera LingardPogba
MkhiMata
MartialRashford MemphisZlatan
Black 1st team, red 2nd team
RomeroDDG
TFMValencia BlindBailly JonesSmalling DarmianShaw
CarrickBlind
FellainiHerrera LingardPogba
MkhiMata
MartialRashford MemphisZlatan
well he is as he was our worst performing midfielder. he was given freedom and produced 1 moment of quality over 90 mins. Rooney was lambasted for exactly this, doing one thing of significance in an entire game. Lallana came on for 15 mins and looked more dangerous. We need to up our standards. A "world class" midfielder isn't supposed to be so anonymous and have such low pass completion and basically be pants except for 1 cross in 93 minutes. Anderson could deliver 1 good ball per match.
Skysports currently have the headline "Jose expected more from Pogba" and quote his post match interview where he didn't once mention Pogba.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ed-more-penetration-in-attack-from-paul-pogba
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ed-more-penetration-in-attack-from-paul-pogba
He still needs to adapt to the EPL tempo. That will come with time.
*hasn't
The main problem with that is, in these type of games, he's nowhere near switched on enough on the defensive end. Look at how much time he game Coutinho to shoot for that chance. He just doesn't look focused enough to play alongside Ander in big games, proven by the City game, which is why I think Mou played him as #10 tonight. But like you said, he doesn't shine as a AM either due to the press on him as soon as he receives the ball. However we may be unfairly ruling him out as a potential great AM off the back of a poor performance against the best pressing team in the league.
Pogba definitely has a lot of improving to do if he wants to be the best midfielder in the world. At the moment Modric is miles ahead of him. He needs to work on getting closer to his man when closing down - his legs are huge. It's really difficult playing against tall players who are also fast - it's hard to knock the ball past them due to their pace and long legs, and also difficult to shield the ball against them.
He need to be more decisive and assertive on the ball as well. He always seems to want to do a dummy or perform needless touches before doing something basic, which allows the opposition time to get back in position and shape. Sometimes a quick and accurate short pass is the best option.
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I know it's trendy to hate Rooney, but picking Memphis as back up ahead of him is just mean.
A lot to be said for that team but width could be an issue.
Not mean. Only stupid
I also don't like him playing so far up front. He always looks a bit lost if he can't be the one to initiate our attacks and then come from deep into dangerous positions.
I hope we just stick with Herrera and Pogba as our central midfield duo and let them develop a good understanding for each other, I feel they could make a superb duo.
I've got the impression that Pogba looks more convincing so far when he plays deeper, having more time and space. Being a bit behind the action instead of bang in the middle.
As the most advanced midfielder he can't cope that well with the immediate pressure and starts to make technical errors and bad decisions. He wants to do something extra-special and fails at basic things. In deeper positions he has the headroom to make efficient use of his great passing skills.
So in the ongoing 6/8/10 debate I lean toward scrapping the #10 option, which means he should have played the Fellaini or Herrera role yesterday. Maybe Deschamps isn't wrong on this one.
As the most advanced midfielder he can't cope that well with the immediate pressure and starts to make technical errors and bad decisions. He wants to do something extra-special and fails at basic things. In deeper positions he has the headroom to make efficient use of his great passing skills.
So in the ongoing 6/8/10 debate I lean toward scrapping the #10 option, which means he should have played the Fellaini or Herrera role yesterday. Maybe Deschamps isn't wrong on this one.
If that's all a "world class" midfielder can do then we have been short changed. To call others idiots for calling out yet another abject performance is absurd. Read this http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/paul-pogbas-performance-man-united-9067020
People need to just accept it that he hasn't hit any kind of heights and could easily be dropped like Rooney. If he played for Liverpool, we would be mugging them off. E.G. Firmino
Valencia and Shaw (especially Valencia) won't have a problem stretching the pitch and in transition I would imagine Pogba and Mata are capable of pushing wider or inside while Herrera drops deeper. In terms of Rooney, I was just adding people who came to my mind simply, I don't care who the backup is it's trying to depict the use of our players, Rooney could play either forwards or CAM in that role.
This again, I called it in the 'baby elephant' thread. Expecting Pogba to play well or criticising him now amounts to 'you've never watched him before'. That second bit in bold isn't even worth a response.This is how it's gone with Pogba to excuse his performances
- Blame his position
- Blame his team mates
- Blame settling in
Now those things have all more or less been catered to, we now move onto phase two of the denial game.
- Pretend Pogba has actually been playing well
- Declare to anyone that doesn't think he's been playing well that "They've never watched him before".
- State that Pogba in actual fact is basically not a good player, not a number *8 *10 *5 *7 and expecting him to "transform and dominate games" will lead to disappointment. But at the same time just to cover yourself state that eventually he will do just that.
With Pogba, what is annoying me isn't even his lack of goals, assists or domination of games, it's the fact he is getting simple things wrong, he is careless, I don't think it's too much to ask him to find a team mate from a pass standing 5 yards away. I don't think it's too much to ask him to head the ball into the net 5 yards away from goal from a free header (Stoke), He was fantastic for France the other night(ironically in a deeper role) so it's not a case of fitness, to me it looks like the big move has effected him mentally, like he needs time to adjust to it all, which you yourself stated, the problem with this is we signed him to make an impact now, not in 6 months or next season. This incessant need of people to say things like "He's not an Iniesta, he's not Scholes, etc etc", how about he just be Paul Pogba? Where's that little boy who joined Juventus a few years back and took to the league and club so impressively so quickly?
You were talking about him needing space and not be pressed to perform but that's basically nonsense because he's actually very good in those situations and has the attributes to deal with them (strength, quick feet, dribbling), you only have to look at his debut against Southampton to see that, they were on him like a rash but he was brushing people off, making fantastic passes and generally bossing the game. Then there's been games against Hull and Stoke this season where he has been given freedom and space, yet was poor. It's an endless cycle of excuses and creating these specific conditions that he can perform in, whilst trying to basically downplay his ability as a player and then at the same time keeping it safe and saying he'll come good. Bizarre really.
This is how it's gone with Pogba to excuse his performances
- Blame his position
- Blame his team mates
- Blame settling in
Now those things have all more or less been catered to, we now move onto phase two of the denial game.
- Pretend Pogba has actually been playing well
- Declare to anyone that doesn't think he's been playing well that "They've never watched him before".
- State that Pogba in actual fact is basically not a good player, not a number *8 *10 *5 *7 and expecting him to "transform and dominate games" will lead to disappointment. But at the same time just to cover yourself state that eventually he will do just that.
With Pogba, what is annoying me isn't even his lack of goals, assists or domination of games, it's the fact he is getting simple things wrong, he is careless, I don't think it's too much to ask him to find a team mate from a pass standing 5 yards away. I don't think it's too much to ask him to head the ball into the net 5 yards away from goal from a free header (Stoke), He was fantastic for France the other night(ironically in a deeper role) so it's not a case of fitness, to me it looks like the big move has effected him mentally, like he needs time to adjust to it all, which you yourself stated, the problem with this is we signed him to make an impact now, not in 6 months or next season. This incessant need of people to say things like "He's not an Iniesta, he's not Scholes, etc etc", how about he just be Paul Pogba? Where's that little boy who joined Juventus a few years back and took to the league and club so impressively so quickly?
You were talking about him needing space and not be pressed to perform but that's basically nonsense because he's actually very good in those situations and has the attributes to deal with them (strength, quick feet, dribbling), you only have to look at his debut against Southampton to see that, they were on him like a rash but he was brushing people off, making fantastic passes and generally bossing the game. Then there's been games against Hull and Stoke this season where he has been given freedom and space, yet was poor. It's an endless cycle of excuses and creating these specific conditions that he can perform in, whilst trying to basically downplay his ability as a player and then at the same time keeping it safe and saying he'll come good. Bizarre really.
The "settling in excuse" is still absolutely valid. There's been loads of examples of top PL players who took an entire season to impress. From Pires at Arsenal to Essien at Chelsea to Suarez at Liverpool. Trying to claim that he's no longer "settling in" is as crazy as the other excuses that you rant about in this post.
Apart from that, I generally agree with what you're saying. He's been really poor in more games than he's been good and it's incredible how often other players and the manager are blamed for Pogba's inability to get the basics right.
He's rubbish in this advanced role people seem to keep harping on about him being so good in. Looks much better when he's played as an actual midfielder.
Still, he would have won us the game last night with the best bit of play of the match, if Zlatan had been capable of being a footballer for 5 seconds.
I'm not really sure what people are expecting from him tbh. He's not a number 10 or "advanced midfielder" no matter what people want to pretend, and even so, how many times did someone like Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs etc. go to Anfield and produce anything better than the odd moment that might win the game?...which is exactly what Pogba did.
If you want to see him dictating games or having a real impact you have to play him IN midfield, and against Liverpool when the best partner available for him is Fellaini, that wouldn't have been a great idea.
Still, he would have won us the game last night with the best bit of play of the match, if Zlatan had been capable of being a footballer for 5 seconds.
I'm not really sure what people are expecting from him tbh. He's not a number 10 or "advanced midfielder" no matter what people want to pretend, and even so, how many times did someone like Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs etc. go to Anfield and produce anything better than the odd moment that might win the game?...which is exactly what Pogba did.
If you want to see him dictating games or having a real impact you have to play him IN midfield, and against Liverpool when the best partner available for him is Fellaini, that wouldn't have been a great idea.
The problem is his positionning.
Once we'll have the good balance in the squad he'll flourish, but not until then.
We bought him but can't make him great.
He needs to operate in a 4-3-3 with other people dictating the game. He's not a playmaker, and should not.
He needs the freedom to add his qualities sometimes forward, sometimes deeper.
He needs two other midfielders and a good winger giving him solutions down the wing.
Once we'll have the good balance in the squad he'll flourish, but not until then.
We bought him but can't make him great.
He needs to operate in a 4-3-3 with other people dictating the game. He's not a playmaker, and should not.
He needs the freedom to add his qualities sometimes forward, sometimes deeper.
He needs two other midfielders and a good winger giving him solutions down the wing.
so what is he supposed to do then? be a liability for 92 mins. It must've been so long that we have had a world class player, we no longer have world class player expectations
This is slightly different though because Pogba has been here before, the club has changed yes and he didn't play much before but a lot of people went along with the notion that as he'd been here before it would remove the need for a 'settling in' phase or at least it wouldn't take long and he would be able to make an instant impact. The other factor to consider is that at a younger age in a completely foreign country Pogba was able to settle in very quickly. Playing for Juventus in Italy brings as much pressure as playing for Manchester United in England. After his move to Juve for obvious reasons I made it a thing to watch Juventus whenever he was playing just to see what the fuss was about and it was incredible to see basically a kid just walk in there and own the place, no nerves nothing. I guess the 89 million factor has to be considered now though, that is likely preying on his mind but even then I thought he'd handle that with ease. I guess after all Paul Pogba is human but people need to stop with the excuses, even more so the downplaying of his ability which is disrespectful to the player.
Yesterday he was poor and he can't argue that it wasn't his best position. Yes technically he prefers to be more B2B but like many have said, his touch, decision making in general was piss poor for the average midfielder let alone one who is the 'star man' of the side.
Needs to really knuckle down and get the basics right. I think he is going to take alot of time to be the player we need him to be, has alot of deficiencies in his game and is far from the finished product.
I can see him being class at say 26 and ageing well as a player but right now, he is really going to be horrible in certain games.
I would prefer him to work on his strengths and focus less on his deficiencies. First touch is usually a strength for him but it has been poor in the faster paced EPL.. needs to work on that. Body balance shoulder to shoulder.. again normally a strength for him but he is getting bullied at times, dribbling.. again usually a strength but at the moment gets caught on the ball time and time again.
Work his basics and he can be dangerous but if people think he is 100% going to come good or he will come good very soon, I think that is misguided. Can already tell that the lad really does need patience and coaching to be the player we want him to be, he isn't a world class midfielder who has come to us in his prime - that is bullshit. Midfielders in their prime don't put in performances like he has, he's still very much a kid imo.. but that isn't a bad thing, but we as fans need to adjust to that and be more realistic in what we are expecting from him.
Forget the price tag and just view him as a talented player who needs time to grow. If he is still performing like this with zero signs of improvement in a few years, this will correctly have been deemed a flop signing.. but patience is needed. Not sure it was wise to spend £89m on a incomplete and non-world class player, but it has been spent now.. we can't do anything about it. What we can do is support the guy and just hope he learns through all these horror shows and it forces him to really work on his game and improve.
Needs to really knuckle down and get the basics right. I think he is going to take alot of time to be the player we need him to be, has alot of deficiencies in his game and is far from the finished product.
I can see him being class at say 26 and ageing well as a player but right now, he is really going to be horrible in certain games.
I would prefer him to work on his strengths and focus less on his deficiencies. First touch is usually a strength for him but it has been poor in the faster paced EPL.. needs to work on that. Body balance shoulder to shoulder.. again normally a strength for him but he is getting bullied at times, dribbling.. again usually a strength but at the moment gets caught on the ball time and time again.
Work his basics and he can be dangerous but if people think he is 100% going to come good or he will come good very soon, I think that is misguided. Can already tell that the lad really does need patience and coaching to be the player we want him to be, he isn't a world class midfielder who has come to us in his prime - that is bullshit. Midfielders in their prime don't put in performances like he has, he's still very much a kid imo.. but that isn't a bad thing, but we as fans need to adjust to that and be more realistic in what we are expecting from him.
Forget the price tag and just view him as a talented player who needs time to grow. If he is still performing like this with zero signs of improvement in a few years, this will correctly have been deemed a flop signing.. but patience is needed. Not sure it was wise to spend £89m on a incomplete and non-world class player, but it has been spent now.. we can't do anything about it. What we can do is support the guy and just hope he learns through all these horror shows and it forces him to really work on his game and improve.
He's never really struck me as someone who plays well for the whole 90 minutes, instead he has moments of quality every game. Not really something you look for in a proper central midfielder. Yet I think he's better playing a bit deeper where he has space to exploit.
On paper the left hand side of a 3 should fit him but wherever he plays he should be doing better than he did last night. Against smaller teams playing in a 2 should be fine.
On paper the left hand side of a 3 should fit him but wherever he plays he should be doing better than he did last night. Against smaller teams playing in a 2 should be fine.
when the action speeds up, Pogba's awareness and anticipation seem sub-standard. When he arrives in position, play has moved on....
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...nited-star-against-Chelsea.html#ixzz4NQhkHyuZ
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...nited-star-against-Chelsea.html#ixzz4NQhkHyuZ
Pogba’s inability to justify his fee isn’t surprising at all. That fee was outrageously high. There’s very few players who can justify it on purely football terms. Pogba is not one of them.
There’s no denying that Pogba was the weakest link of our midfield trio. However some of the criticism is a bit unfair. First of all, we played against Liverpool at home, that’s far from an easy game. Secondly we played a striker on the right and a so called winger on the left who hasn’t been playing first team football since January. Third it was our first game in a 4-3-3 formation. Finally, Ibra was supposed to lead the team had an absolute nightmare. May I also remind that he was partnered by two players who just few months ago, were nearly skinned alive by the fans. So let us give him some time.
That doesn’t mean that what is Pogba is doing is good. First of all he needs to adjust to the EPL tempo. Some of the flicks he does may work in the Serie A but would only make you look silly in the EPL. He must also learn to take his share of responsibility. At Juventus he was allowed to do what he wants mainly because Juventus defence and midfield is rock solid and there was always someone keeping a close watch to him. There’s no Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo bailing him out at OT.
From our side, we need to decide what we want to achieve and how we’re planning to achieve it. If we truly aim to win important trophies (not some mickey mouse cup) then we can’t keep on switching systems while hoping that the likes of Young, Rooney, Jones and Depay will suddenly become world beaters. We need to have a dependable squad and everyone must know exactly what is expected from him to do.
There’s no denying that Pogba was the weakest link of our midfield trio. However some of the criticism is a bit unfair. First of all, we played against Liverpool at home, that’s far from an easy game. Secondly we played a striker on the right and a so called winger on the left who hasn’t been playing first team football since January. Third it was our first game in a 4-3-3 formation. Finally, Ibra was supposed to lead the team had an absolute nightmare. May I also remind that he was partnered by two players who just few months ago, were nearly skinned alive by the fans. So let us give him some time.
That doesn’t mean that what is Pogba is doing is good. First of all he needs to adjust to the EPL tempo. Some of the flicks he does may work in the Serie A but would only make you look silly in the EPL. He must also learn to take his share of responsibility. At Juventus he was allowed to do what he wants mainly because Juventus defence and midfield is rock solid and there was always someone keeping a close watch to him. There’s no Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo bailing him out at OT.
From our side, we need to decide what we want to achieve and how we’re planning to achieve it. If we truly aim to win important trophies (not some mickey mouse cup) then we can’t keep on switching systems while hoping that the likes of Young, Rooney, Jones and Depay will suddenly become world beaters. We need to have a dependable squad and everyone must know exactly what is expected from him to do.
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