[Cassidy]

I agree, he has less defensive duties in the front of a midfield 3, but he's been consistently poor in a 2 and certainly isn't "defensively savvy" like you claimed.

I hate this whole argument about us being able to throw money at any player and therefore not having an issue with overpaying for talent.

This next bit isn't to do with pogba, but just one of a few reasons as to why we shouldn't buy big just because we can:

Excessively valuing a player risks them buying too much into their own brand or struggling to live up to media pressure of their hype. It inflates the transfer market and obliges managers to build teams around marquee talent to avoid the risk of looking red faced.

Having an elastic wallet doesn't mean a club should spend big on talents that aren't worth the fee. It doesn't free them from allocating resources efficiently, or risk falling further behind the pack. I look to Tottenham and Dortmund recruitment in much envy in that regard. I have no problems with buying 90m players of they are literally in the top 3-4 in that position, and I don't think Pogba is the best number 10 around.

Now that we have him I'd love to see him succeed, but I'm not agreeing to hyping his talent just because we paid big for him. He has a shit load of work to do.

On the issue of his fee, didn't we pay for his potential (as well as marketing value/potential)?

Is £89m for him worse than £36m+£20m for Martial?

I guess it really depends if you feel Pogba can become one of the best CMs in the world. If yes then the fee shouldn't really be a concern.

 

[Akshay]

I agree, he has less defensive duties in the front of a midfield 3, but he's been consistently poor in a 2 and certainly isn't "defensively savvy" like you claimed.

But I haven't claimed he's defensively savvy? I'm saying he wouldn't need much to be in a proper midfield 3, but for a midfield two he'd have to develop that side of his game. He has the physical tools to do it, it's a question of time, training and attitude. I don't think he's lazy as people sometimes claim, he just wants to focus on the attacking side of the game as that's brought him success in the past and I think he's also still acclimatizing to the PL.

He hasn't been poor in a midfield 2 in games when we're doing most of the attacking (except his horror show against Bournemouth but several others had an off day as well). We shouldn't be playing Pogba-Herrera as the midfield in big games. I expect us to change this next transfer window.

I hate this whole argument about us being able to throw money at any player and therefore not having an issue with overpaying for talent.

This next bit isn't to do with pogba, but just one of a few reasons as to why we shouldn't buy big just because we can:

Excessively valuing a player risks them buying too much into their own brand or struggling to live up to media pressure of their hype. It inflates the transfer market and obliges managers to build teams around marquee talent to avoid the risk of looking red faced.

Having an elastic wallet doesn't mean a club should spend big on talents that aren't worth the fee. It doesn't free them from allocating resources efficiently, or risk falling further behind the pack. I look to Tottenham and Dortmund recruitment in much envy in that regard. I have no problems with buying 90m players of they are literally in the top 3-4 in that position, and I don't think Pogba is the best number 10 around.

Now that we have him I'd love to see him succeed, but I'm not agreeing to hyping his talent just because we paid big for him. He has a shit load of work to do.

You make some good points here, although I think Mourinho has shown with Mkhi and Martial that he's not afraid of benching expensive talent if their attitude isn't up to scratch. Dortmund made some great transfers 5-7 years ago and built a title winning team on the back of that but their more recent recruitment hasn't been in the same class (Mkhi apart). Spurs haven't won anything at all. It's much easier to build on a budget when your objectives are simply to lurk at the top end of the table instead of win trophies. Just look at Arsenal.

My question to you would be, who would you rather we have bought instead of Pogba, who was attainable last summer?

 

[sammsky1]

I didnt think you had to be fair, but as one of the more vocal critics i threw your name out there.

Im sure there are people who would take the money and run. A lot of people think we overpaid so it is hardly a massive surprise if a few people would take their money back if offered. But i definitely think its a minority, which is supported by the fact that even critics like yourself would advocate a wait and see approach.

Its a moot point right now as no-one would offer the money we paid for him anyway.

 

[VP89]

On the issue of his fee, didn't we pay for his potential (as well as marketing value/potential)?

Is £89m for him worse than £36m+£20m for Martial?

I guess it really depends if you feel Pogba can become one of the best CMs in the world. If yes then the fee shouldn't really be a concern.

I think the 20m was conditional on Martial actually getting to Ballon d'or material IIRC. Look, £36m on a 19 year old was a silly fee too. He had a terrific first season but he hasn't been close to a £36m player this season. The fee is palatable though, because he's only 20 and has time on his side to reach levels he'd be likely hit.

If we look at Pogba, 5 years older and an abundance of talent, I find we have to adjust not only systems but personelle too in order go get the best out of him. And even then he's not as consistent as we'd like him to be. Again no real issue if he becomes one of the best number 10s in the world but I do think resources could have been better allocated to certain other talents for cheaper fees (e.g. Semundo, Tielemans together for a fraction of the fee and Mkhitaryan in the 10). Pogba came at a massive amount and I expect more of an immediate impact than he's made. You don't buy a 90m player solely for potential, surely.

 

[sammsky1]

My question to you would be, who would you rather we have bought instead of Pogba, who was attainable last summer?

Most players in the world are attainable at £89million so take your pick!

 

[BlueCelery]

That list means nothing, even for people who think statistics are good barometers of anything in football. Does Robert Huth have a better touch than Wilfried Zaha? Every single one of the players in that list have a better than average touch, 3 of which (Januzaj, Sanchez and Pogba) are among the best in the league in that regard. Every single player on that list is an attacking player - it only shows which players take a lot of risks, such as turning or dribbling a player. Completely useless stats.

Of course he loses the ball unnecessarily, trying to be adventurous when under pressure in a place where he should simply release it, or being ambitious around the box when he should have played someone else - that's an issue of decision making, not ball control.

You really severely underrate the importance of ball retention. I'm definitely not surprised someone like Costa's near the top of that list. So many attacks break-down because of his poor link-up play.

The likes of Hazard, Coutinho, Silva who are risk takers/ball carriers aren't on there for good reason.

 

[Cassidy]

I think the 20m was conditional on Martial actually getting to Ballon d'or material IIRC. Look, £36m on a 19 year old was a silly fee too. He had a terrific first season but he hasn't been close to a £36m player this season. The fee is palatable though, because he's only 20 and has time on his side to reach levels he'd be likely hit.

If we look at Pogba, 5 years older and an abundance of talent, I find we have to adjust not only systems but personelle too in order go get the best out of him. And even then he's not as consistent as we'd like him to be. Again no real issue if he becomes one of the best number 10s in the world but I do think resources could have been better allocated to certain other talents for cheaper fees (e.g. Semundo, Tielemans together for a fraction and Mkhitaryan in the 10).

I fully get where you are coming from. Like I said it all depends if you believe he can become one of the best CMs in the world. If yes then the fee shouldn't be an issue, if no then obviously the fee will be a big issue.

 

[Cassidy]

You really severely underrate the importance of ball retention. I'm definitely not surprised someone like Costa's near the top of that list. So many attacks break-down because of his poor link-up play.

The likes of Hazard, Coutinho, Silva who are risk takers/ball carriers aren't on there for good reason.

Bit silly since Pogba in our side is one of those. As reflected by the sheer number of chances he creates for the team.

 

[Akshay]

Most players in the world are attainable at £89million so take your pick!

Nah, I don't think so. Could we have got Modric or Kroos? Verratti? Those are the players we're talking about if Pogba's not good enough.

 

[BlueCelery]

Bit silly since Pogba in our side is one of those. As reflected by the sheer number of chances he creates for the team.

Baffled you think a CM should be giving the ball away that much.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I dont think there are no. To read this thread is to learn how urban myths are born.

As far as I can ascertain one person said he thought half our fans would be happy to sell Pogba if we recouped all our money. He didnt actually say he wanted that himself, we can maybe assume he does feel that way but he didnt actually say it.

Then everyone started acting like a load of people DO want to sell him. I havent noticed a single person say it though.

In fact I would say most people in here are largely in agreement: he has been great at times, pretty poor at others, its his first season, we all hope he improves.

The fact that it was even mentioned is mental enough really.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Hypothetically, for £90m.

But don't let the pesky 'hypothetically' stop you from breaking out the green smiley of superiority!

What the feck is the difference? The fact it's even being mooted is madness; so yeah, the smiley of 'superiority' was warranted.

 

[Cassidy]

Baffled you think a CM should be giving the ball away that much.

I didn't say one should. But again it really depends on the players role in the team and team setup.

 

[RoyH1]

Nah, I don't think so. Could we have got Modric or Kroos? Verratti? Those are the players we're talking about if Pogba's not good enough.

We can still get Verratti IMO. I don't think PSG can hold onto him forever and I don't think they'll be able to attract the top of the cream talent just with their fat wallet.

Kroos and Modric are pipe dreams. No way Madrid sells and they don't need the money. Neither does PSG for that matter, but Madrid offers any player an almost ironclad guarantee of playing deep into the Champions League.

 

[roonster09]

You really severely underrate the importance of ball retention. I'm definitely not surprised someone like Costa's near the top of that list. So many attacks break-down because of his poor link-up play.

The likes of Hazard, Coutinho, Silva who are risk takers/ball carriers aren't on there for good reason.

Conveniently you ignored my post which shows Hazard, Neymar, Suarez, Hazard have more unsuccessful touches than Lingard.

 

[VP89]

But I haven't claimed he's defensively savvy?

You did as part of the previous post:

Maybe he needs a 3 man midfield to be at his best, maybe he needs some time to adapt to playing in a midfield two. How many 23 year old technical midfielders are defensively savvy and can hack being the superstar of a big club just fine? Not many. I think the defensive contribution and handling the pressure will come in time.

It was just hidden!

I'm saying he wouldn't need much to be in a proper midfield 3, but for a midfield two he'd have to develop that side of his game. He has the physical tools to do it, it's a question of time, training and attitude. I don't think he's lazy as people sometimes claim, he just wants to focus on the attacking side of the game as that's brought him success in the past and I think he's also still acclimatizing to the PL.

He hasn't been poor in a midfield 2 in games when we're doing most of the attacking (except his horror show against Bournemouth but several others had an off day as well). We shouldn't be playing Pogba-Herrera as the midfield in big games. I expect us to change this next transfer window.


You make some good points here, although I think Mourinho has shown with Mkhi and Martial that he's not afraid of benching expensive talent if their attitude isn't up to scratch. Dortmund made some great transfers 5-7 years ago and built a title winning team on the back of that but their more recent recruitment hasn't been in the same class (Mkhi apart). Spurs haven't won anything at all. It's much easier to build on a budget when your objectives are simply to lurk at the top end of the table instead of win trophies. Just look at Arsenal.

My question to you would be, who would you rather we have bought instead of Pogba, who was attainable last summer?

I think to be in a midfield 3 and play in the 10, he needs to grow into a Lampard sort of player for us. Which puts him under pressure to get goals and assists, or at least become more of a creative outlet. His stats really aren't pleasing this year and whats also concerning is the knack of disappearing in big games regardless of the chances that come his way.

Spurs haven't wont anything but they naturally focus their transfer attention on hidden gems because their wallet isn't really that large. I think because ours is borderline unlimited, we look at bigger names and might well risk losing out on the next Deli Ali. If not Pogba, I would personally have preferred us to spend the 90m on actual central midfielders rather than a player to operate in a number 10 (despite having Mata and Mkhitaryan it just feels bizzare).

So I'd have preferred us to buy RB Cover in Semundo and either Tielemanns, Nainggolan and/or Keisse. I made a thread just before the signing of Pogba asking if the money could be better spent on other players rather than on him. Most the replies against that idea was a "its not my money, so why do I care" , which didn't completely make sense.

 

[sammsky1]

Ive read many posts here about how Pogba is 'young' and should be allowed 'time to settle'. Below is just an analogy, but in the real world Pogba is anything but young ....

- Lets say a footballers career lasts from age 18 - 32. So that's 14 years. Pogba is almost 24, so 6 years Or 43% into his 14 year career.
- Lets assume a very talented professional with Ivy League MBA starts his career aged 25 in corporate world. Assume he retires aged 55. That's a 30 year career.
- 43% into a 30 year long business career starting aged 25, Pogba is the equivalent of a 36 years old, already with kids and a hefty mortgage.

A hot shot 36 year old at a FTSE20 multinational company should be deeply entrenched into senior middle management with well defined and known skills. He should have eliminated most weaknesses and be a true leader. If a rival company headhunted this person paying him an astronomical salary compared to his industry peers, he'd be expected to contribute fully within 100 days of arriving by leading strategies that delivered market winning results.

Pogba is way way behind expectations: on what he should personally deliver, his impact on the team and his impact on the league in general.

 

[Akshay]

Yes, I meant that Pogba not being defensively savvy shouldn't be held so much against him as not many technical midfielders his age are.

@VP89 since I don't seem to be able to quote the post.

 

[sammsky1]

Nah, I don't think so. Could we have got Modric or Kroos? Verratti? Those are the players we're talking about if Pogba's not good enough.

I think we could have. So its simply conjecture.

 

[BlueCelery]

Conveniently you ignored my post which shows Hazard, Neymar, Suarez, Hazard have more unsuccessful touches than Lingard.

Do it minutes per/90 minutes & I'm sure the results would be different. Also, why are you including Suarez in there? He's a player notorious for coughing up possession easily with poor touches.

 

[Cassidy]

Ive read many posts here about how Pogba is 'young' and should be allowed 'time to settle'. Below is just an analogy, but in the real world, Pogba is anything but young ....

- Lets say a footballers career lasts from age 18 - 32. So that's 14 years. Pogba is almost 24, so 6 years into a 14 year career. That is 43% into his career
- Lets assume a professional in the corporate business world, clad with an MBA starts his career aged 25. Assume he retires aged 55. Thats a 30 year career.
- 43% into a 30 year long conventional business career starting aged 25, Pogba is the equivalent of a 36 years old, already with kids and a hefty mortgage.

A hot shot 36 year old at a FTSE multinational company should be deeply entrenched into senior middle management with well defined and well known skills. He should have eliminated most weaknesses and be a true leader. If a rival company headhunted this person paying him an astronomical salary compared too his peers in the company and industry, he'd be expected to contribute fully within 100 days of arriving leading strategies that delivered market winning results.

Pogba is way way behind expectations: on what he should personally deliver, his impact on the team and his impact on the league in general.

He is young in terms of a "top level" CM tbh. Not many CM around 23 can do what we're asking of him at the highest level too. That is to be a CM but then still be our best chance creator and also be defensively savvy. All that in his first season at the club too.

I'm not even saying he will reach some great heights either, I'm just saying that we should be a little patient than trying to ruin him after 6 months just because of his fee.

He is still one of our chief chance creators not matter how "bad" we all think hes been this season.

 

[roonster09]

Do it minutes per/90 minutes & I'm sure the results would be different. Also, why are you including Suarez in there? He's a player notorious for coughing up possession easily with poor touches.

The stats are per 90 mins. Exclude Suarez and still we have Messi, Hazard having more unsuccessful touches per 90 mins than Lingard.

 

[VP89]

Yes, I meant that Pogba not being defensively savvy shouldn't be held so much against him as not many technical midfielders his age are.

@VP89 since I don't seem to be able to quote the post.

I think its because I kept editing mine

Got you, but then did we buy a 89m to play in a number 10? In that case, why did we do so after having Mata and Mkhitaryan already in our ranks? Could that attention not have gone towards a RB cover, CM and CB?

Honestly, I think if we catered better for our actual Central Midfielders (and not the number 10s) from a recruitment perspective, we wouldn't have had such a slow start as we tampered with Fellaini/Herrera/Pogba combinations.

As I say though, now that we have Pogba its great and FWIW I think he will grow into that Lampard player for us, but I don't think we'l see it until the 3rd season or so.

 

[Stacks]

But I haven't claimed he's defensively savvy? I'm saying he wouldn't need much to be in a proper midfield 3, but for a midfield two he'd have to develop that side of his game. He has the physical tools to do it, it's a question of time, training and attitude. I don't think he's lazy as people sometimes claim, he just wants to focus on the attacking side of the game as that's brought him success in the past and I think he's also still acclimatizing to the PL.

He hasn't been poor in a midfield 2 in games when we're doing most of the attacking (except his horror show against Bournemouth but several others had an off day as well). We shouldn't be playing Pogba-Herrera as the midfield in big games. I expect us to change this next transfer window.


You make some good points here, although I think Mourinho has shown with Mkhi and Martial that he's not afraid of benching expensive talent if their attitude isn't up to scratch. Dortmund made some great transfers 5-7 years ago and built a title winning team on the back of that but their more recent recruitment hasn't been in the same class (Mkhi apart). Spurs haven't won anything at all. It's much easier to build on a budget when your objectives are simply to lurk at the top end of the table instead of win trophies. Just look at Arsenal.

My question to you would be, who would you rather we have bought instead of Pogba, who was attainable last summer?

If the money was right, it is possible others would be attainable. Pogba was attainable because we were willing to break a world record no?

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Pogba is a new brand. Two sides, Raola and especially ManUnited invested into it in a hope it will pay back. We don't know what expectations were there at the time of the deal - 1) that he will pay back immediately 2) he will pay back in the future.

In the 1st case, it's not happening obviously and that's a big mistake of decision makers which they should have admitted. In the 2nd there would have been no need to worry if he was treated like a young hope, the same way as Lingard and Rashford

The funny thing is it's neither happening. He is not punished when underperforming, Mou does not criticize him publicly as he does in case of other players, he is not substituted even and yet treated as world class. I have a feeling it's a burden put on him that he can't bear. He can't perform to that level yet.

The discussion of selling him now isn't practical in both cases. Even if it was a failure they'll try to squeeze everything first before admitting it. And there is always a chance he will grow into a mature class player.

We, guys, can't be permanently unhappy with the results, quality, etc and yet ignore the performance of a player appointed to be a main hope.

This is a really good post and sums up how I feel on the matter, well said.

Get out of it you fecking melon!

So, hypothetically speaking, if you could go back in time and had the power to authorize the transfer yourself, or to choose another way to invest the £90m, what would you do? Be honest.

(@Robbie Boy - again, that 'hypothetical' means it's basically just a thought experiment - you don't need to point out that time travel is, as yet, not possible, or that Mockers would never be given the executive power to make such decisions)

Excessively valuing a player risks them buying too much into their own brand or struggling to live up to media pressure of their hype. It inflates the transfer market and obliges managers to build teams around marquee talent to avoid the risk of looking red faced.

Having an elastic wallet doesn't mean a club should spend big on talents that aren't worth the fee. It doesn't free them from allocating resources efficiently and risk falling further behind the pack. I look to Tottenham and Dortmund recruitment in much envy in that regard. I have no problems with buying 90m players if they are literally in the top 3-4 in that position, and I don't think Pogba is the best number 10 around.

Now that we have him I'd love to see him succeed, but I'm not agreeing to hyping his talent just because we paid big for him. He has a shit load of work to do.

Great post again, agree with every point.

Baffled you think a CM should be giving the ball away that much.

Agree.

But, to me, as I've said repeatedly in here, I don't think he'll end up a CM, he just doesn't look like one.

It's almost like watching a really good player being asked to fill in at CM - moments of brilliance, but combined with moments of genuine 'wtf is he doing?'.

For me, he's a 10, and should be compared to other 10s rather than CMs.

I also hope he and José see this as otherwise he could very easily up being a 'nearly man' - finishing not good enough to be a striker, decision making nowhere near good enough to be a CM, defensive attributes not good enough to be a winger.

 

[Akshay]

I think to be in a midfield 3 and play in the 10, he needs to grow into a Lampard sort of player for us. Which puts him under pressure to get goals and assists, or at least become more of a creative outlet. His stats really aren't pleasing this year and whats also concerning is the knack of disappearing in big games regardless of the chances that come his way.

Spurs haven't wont anything but they naturally focus their transfer attention on hidden gems because their wallet isn't really that large. I think because ours is borderline unlimited, we look at bigger names and might well risk losing out on the next Deli Ali. If not Pogba, I would personally have preferred us to spend the 90m on actual central midfielders rather than a player to operate in a number 10 (despite having Mata and Mkhitaryan it just feels bizzare).

So I'd have preferred us to buy RB Cover in Semundo and either Tielemanns, Nainggolan and/or Keisse. I made a thread just before the signing of Pogba asking if the money could be better spent on other players rather than on him. Most the replies against that idea was a "its not my money, so why do I care" , which didn't completely make sense.

Yeah I agree about the Lampard comparison. His stats haven't been great this season so far but I believe they will be better next year, as our attack clicks better and he simply can't hit the post/bar this many times again. I think we bought him as a creative player who Mourinho believes he can mold to play a bit deeper as well. His passing range and physique means he has the potential to do it. There's certainly no point in him being just another #10, which I don't think gets the best out of him anyway. The most advanced of a midfield three, or the more attacking of a midfield two, a bit like Scholes, is the role I envision for him.

I personally believe that Pogba's signing didn't stop us strengthening other positions, we either didn't land the man we wanted (Kante I think) or Mourinho wasn't sure which players would improve enough under him compared to LVG. The squad needed serious renovation after Moyes and LVG's transfer mistakes and it wasn't going to get fixed in one window.

 

[Akshay]

I think we could have. So its simply conjecture.

If the money was right, it is possible others would be attainable. Pogba was attainable because we were willing to break a world record no?

Fair enough. My feeling is that we weren't that attractive a destination past summer and when we saw Pogba wanted to come here we jumped at it. But absolutely no way to prove either way. I'll admit there's an emotional part to it for me as well - I was (and am) happy we brought Pogba 'home'.

 

[Akshay]

Honestly, I think if we catered better for our actual Central Midfielders (and not the number 10s) from a recruitment perspective, we wouldn't have had such a slow start as we tampered with Fellaini/Herrera/Pogba combinations.

We needed a new Carrick. Which we've needed for several years but every buy intended for that purpose (Blind, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger) hasn't worked out at all. Getting his replacement right is very critical in this next window.

 

[1974_Fergie_Time]

Maybe the assist column is unfair as he could be making loads of chances and our attackers are not putting them in the net is hardly his fault

I hoped he would be our Patrick Viera type player when we signed him.

But scrutiny of having £90m on your back must take it's toll in the pressure you feel.

 

[Robbie Boy]

@Rhyme Animal Nah I have a mate who can time travel. Build a time machine in his shed so he did. True story.

Anyhow, I still maintain it's madness to even be discussing such a thing. It's his first season and the team haven't exactly clicked all too regularly. If he doesn't improve next season I'll worry alright.

 

[Nighteyes]

So much nonsense on here. The only thing wrong with Pogba are his big match performances. Other than that he's been very good and is quite blatantly a special player in the making. Doesn't matter whether he plays in a 2/3/4 man midfield or whatever. Wouldn't swap him for any other midfielder in the world.

 

[VP89]

So much nonsense on here. The only thing wrong with Pogba are his big match performances. Other than that he's been very good and is quite blatantly a special player in the making. Doesn't matter whether he plays in a 2/3/4 man midfield or whatever. Wouldn't swap him for any other midfielder in the world.

The irony.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

@Rhyme Animal Nah I have a mate who can time travel. Build a time machine in his shed so he did. True story.

Anyhow, I still maintain it's madness to even be discussing such a thing. It's his first season and the team haven't exactly clicked all too regularly. If he doesn't improve next season I'll worry alright.

Haha, yeah fair play mate. Maybe you can nip back in time and stop Fergie from appointing Moyes.

I think the key thing is that I totally agree with your point here, maybe the difference is that the more cynical folk are kind of anticipating that 2nd season already, and in a way preparing themselves for a potential let down.

We have to admit that if he doesn't have a great 2nd season, it would start to look concerning, because we wouldn't be able to say, 'oh it's '2nd season syndrome', when we've spent this season (at times) excusing him. So the pressure, next season, could actually be greater for him.

Martial had a great 1st season, so he's bought himself some grace for his relatively poor 2nd season.

I'd also add in there that over the last few years we've witnessed the ADM transfer, Falcao, Bastian, Morgan - these have started to give some fans 'that feeling' about certain transfers. We talk about 'potential' all the time with Pogba, but the reality is that this transfer still has the 'potential' to go down as one of the worst transfers in history.

The fact that if Pogba had a 2nd season exactly the same as this one, it would start to be seen universally as a failed transfer, does kind of tell you quite a lot about this 1st season...

 

[Robbie Boy]

Haha, yeah fair play mate. Maybe you can nip back in time and stop Fergie from appointing Moyes.

I think the key thing is that I totally agree with your point here, maybe the difference is that the more cynical folk are kind of anticipating that 2nd season already, and in a way preparing themselves for a potential let down.

We have to admit that if he doesn't have a great 2nd season, it would start to look concerning, because we wouldn't be able to say, 'oh it's '2nd season syndrome', when we've spent this season (at times) excusing him. So the pressure, next season, could actually be greater for him.

Martial had a great 1st season, so he's bought himself some grace for his relatively poor 2nd season.

I'd also add in there that over the last few years we've witnessed the ADM transfer, Falcao, Bastian, Morgan - these have started to give some fans 'that feeling' about certain transfers. We talk about 'potential' all the time with Pogba, but the reality is that this transfer still has the 'potential' to go down as one of the worst transfers in history.

The fact that if Pogba had a 2nd season exactly the same as this one, it would start to be seen universally as a failed transfer, does kind of tell you quite a lot about this 1st season...

Aye don't disagree with any of this. My main view of Pogba before he joined us - before we were even linked to him, in fact - was that he's a player thats capable of great moments in games but I wasn't sure if he was capable of great games. By this, I mean, really taking a game by the scruff of the neck. And so far yeah, he's had some great moments and good games - possibly very good games - but I'm not sure about great ones.

In saying all that, he's young and has shown flashes of his immense talent. My issue is that he needs to stop holding onto the ball for so long and sometimes just keep things simple instead of pointlessly attempting to dribble past 3 opponents. I don't believe as a team we have fully gelled / clicked under Mourinho and this has obviously affected Pogbas game. His goals / assists return actually is ok-ish, all things considered. I mean, we aren't exactly competent in the final third, in general.

I'm not overly worried though. I always felt - when watching the odd Juve / France game - that he would eventually put it all together and become a truly dominant midfielder. I still feel - talent wise, at least - that he's fully capable of that particular feat. I'm hoping that Mourinho gets in the players he wants and gets us playing as a more fluid / cohesive unit for next season. Then I truly believe that we'll see Pogba flourish. If he struggles again as badly as he has done at times this season, then yeah, I'll be worried.

 

[K2K]

He'll prove a lot of you wrong in here.

And you can quote me again on that in a few years.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

In saying all that, he's young and has shown flashes of his immense talent. My issue is that he needs to stop holding onto the ball for so long and sometimes just keep things simple instead of pointlessly attempting to dribble past 3 opponents. I don't believe as a team we have fully gelled / clicked under Mourinho and this has obviously affected Pogbas game. His goals / assists return actually is ok-ish, all things considered. I mean, we aren't exactly competent in the final third, in general.

Yeah, agreed, good post mate.

The bolded bit is what it really all comes down to, it sounds so simple, but if he would just receive and play the ball quickly, establish a nice rhythm throughout every game, and then occasionally turn his man and burst forward, he'd be so much more effective.

It's like he's watched 1000s of Zidane skill compilations, but never watched whole matches of Zidane, and then goes out and tries to create a 90 minute highlight reel - which he's so talented that occasionally he actually fecking manages - instead of going out and controlling his own game, let alone thee game.

I mean that as a compliment in a way. It's not as if he needs to really 'add' anything to his game. Rather he needs to simplify his craft in order to be better!

 

[sammsky1]

I didnt think you had to be fair, but as one of the more vocal critics i threw your name out there.

Im sure there are people who would take the money and run. A lot of people think we overpaid so it is hardly a massive surprise if a few people would take their money back if offered. But i definitely think its a minority, which is supported by the fact that even critics like yourself would advocate a wait and see approach.

I was not desperate that we sign him as I thought there were other options and was stunned at the transfer fee. But I never ever saw him play for Juve and so went along with the opinions of his fans in the pre transfer thread whom collectively promised gold.

I'm not enamoured by promises of jam for tomorrow. Neither is it very insightful to predict Pogba will succeed or be a great in 2 or 3 years time ... thats what we paid for! As it stands, Pogba has not helped the club progress from the Moyes/LVG era.

Like it or not, the club placed an enormous bet that he will be a lynchpin of our future success and is now forced to make future decisions to make it work. Hence my point in the Herrera thread that Herrera is not good enough to compensate for Pogba's weaknesses right now as well as perform his no 6 duties and so he needs upgrading. Its not Herrera's fault but these are the real issues Pogba's underperformance are creating. Mourinho (And we fans) has no choice but to find a solution.

 

[sammsky1]

He'll prove a lot of you wrong in here.

And you can quote me again on that in a few years.

I dont think its that courageous to wish he becomes a world beater as thats what we paid for. I wish it as much as you do.

But I'll also hold him account to those standards now. He is a Manchester United player and should be objectively judged as such, no matter any other factors.

 

[K2K]

I dont think its that courageous to wish he becomes a world beater as thats what we paid for. I wish it as much as you do.

But I'll also hold him account to those standards now. He is a Manchester United player and should be objectively judged as such, no matter any other factors.

It's not a wish.

From what I have seen from him in a United shirt I am totally convinced. His problem is lack of consistency.

But then I remember that Modric was declared one of the worst signings in Madrid history after his first season. This big moves take time.

I wouldn't call myself the most patient fan out there but there is reason to be with him.

 

[sammsky1]

It's not a wish.

From what I have seen from him in a United shirt I am totally convinced. His problem is lack of consistency.

But then I remember that Modric was declared one of the worst signings in Madrid history after his first season. This big moves take time.

I wouldn't call myself the most patient fan out there but there is reason to be with him.

I hope you are absolutely correct .