We just need to appoint a good manager.
Paul Mitchell - Sporting Director | Now at Newcastle
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
If he did come as well as Poch, I'd be far more comfortable with Poch as our manager.
I feel like the structure would be a lot more stable and we certainly could build a far better squad than we have now.
I feel like the structure would be a lot more stable and we certainly could build a far better squad than we have now.
Then entered Mike Phelan and United DNA, with old school I know the boys father he comes from good stock. Hey Giggsy said there’s a boy for the national team who we really need to get our hands on.
3 years later here we are.
Too many opinions about the structure of the club and not many about this guy.
Is he any good? Some murmurs about him being good at Southampton, Tottenham. Was he any good at Red Bull and Monaco?
Is he any good? Some murmurs about him being good at Southampton, Tottenham. Was he any good at Red Bull and Monaco?
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And us the fans.. 'The manager wasn't backed'
Not definite, he’s mates with Rangnick too
Also Poch has lost his way a bit at PSG, it hasn’t been a good audition for a major club
Will pair nicely with our manager, football director, technical director and whatever Rangnick plans to appoint himself as. Nice clear decision making
hire all the directors of football!
Completely agree. Still baffles me that we went ahead with Maguire and Bruno the very next season despite , the scouts not.being very convinced. Hope we stay clear away from those kind of decisions going forward
That's the part that makes me laugh at Mourinho's defenders. A lot are convinced that he'd never have put up with Maguire when he was the one to push for him in the first place.
He'd be a good acquisition to the team but there's a lot of very capable people that could also be brought to the club instead of Mitchell, and they would be just as capable or even more capable potentially imo. I think whoever they appoint will be a good candidate potentially. We also have a few internal options that look very interesting in that regard and it wouldn't surprise me if they gave it to someone like Henny de Regt who is vastly experienced in the field of work and has even been a adviser/consultant to some national teams like Serbia in the past. He was at Ajax for 18 years working in various different roles, which included recruiting players and overseeing departments on the football side.
Before I finish, i'd just like to highlight the below YouTube video that was created after the news about Mitchell possibly getting the sack at Monaco. The content creator in the video is making claims that aren't true and are easily refuted.
The first false claim he makes is that Mitchell was working as the technical director, Sporting director and head of recruitment at his respective clubs, which are the same roles but with a different hat, as he puts it.
There's actually a big difference between what is required from a Sporting director who oversees the whole football operations side to what is required of someone in a head of recruitment role.
The second false claim he makes, which is absurd is that Mitchell is one of the best Sporting director's in the world. I'm not sure how he came to that conclusion when it's clear that Mitchell was appointed the technical director at New York Red Bulls and Red Bull Bagarantino, and didn't even last in that role a year before taking up the Sporting director's roles at Monaco where their fans are not happy with his work, in the almost 2 years he's been at the their club.
I'm not sure why these YouTube channels build up someone to be someone they've never been, and it creates a false perception for the regular fan. Mitchell did well as a Chief Scout and as a recruitment head, but that's as far as it goes for him at the moment.
Wasn't it widely reported Wan Bissaka was specially selected by scouts after topping a list of 500 right-backs?
And I doubt scouts were against signing Bruno per se, but rather had reservation over his passing stats, and when his extraordinary form continued over the next season coupled with being available for a lower price, decided to pull the trigger the following January.
And I doubt scouts were against signing Bruno per se, but rather had reservation over his passing stats, and when his extraordinary form continued over the next season coupled with being available for a lower price, decided to pull the trigger the following January.
I wonder what the collective noun would be for multiple directors of football? Like crows, perhaps a parliament ? Or a junta- that has a nice ring to it! Can anyone enlighten me on this point?
Sorry but I find posts like these hilarious.
The modern football club has long moved on from that model.
City, Liverpool and the like have strong background structures in place that complement the managerial choices they make.
do Liverpool really have that?
they appointed King Kenny, which doesn't strike me as the workings of an efficiently run background structure.. it's pretty awful decision making, really
also they paid £35m for Andy Carroll
most of their success is because of Klopp, in my opinion
Andy Carroll and Kenny Dalglish?! We're not talking about a past signing or manager before this current Liverpool sporting structure was put into place. That's a nothing comment for me. Completely irrelevant. Also Klopp didn't hire himself as Liverpool manager.do Liverpool really have that?
they appointed King Kenny, which doesn't strike me as the workings of an efficiently run background structure.. it's pretty awful decision making, really
also they paid £35m for Andy Carroll
most of their success is because of Klopp, in my opinion
Michael Edwards is Liverpool's sporting director, working closely with Jurgen Klopp and Mike Gordon to identify new signings and organise contracts. Edwards was promoted in November 2016, having made a huge impression working on the 'transfer committee' alongside scouts Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows.
That's taken directly from google.
We've only recently appointed a sporting director since our SAF hangover which has lasted more than a decade. City recruited a sporting director years before they approached Pep Guardiola.
Meanwhile we were sat with an investment banker running the football side of the business, not afraid to open the purse to buy the latest new toys and hope for the best.
Elite clubs like Liverpool and City are models of how clubs should be run. Their on field successes show that.
As a United fan I'm not blinded by my love for the club as there's clearly major issues at executive level and I can admit Liverpool and City are setting the benchmark in the modern game.
We've made changes to our backroom structure but those changes won't see us competing for titles anytime soon.
Your backroom staff needs to be on the same wavelength as your managerial appointment. Get that right first and then we will see progress.
I was genuinely asking
how do you discern the difference between the backroom people being good or not when there is a world class manager in place?
we had Fergie and our structure was clearly outdated behind the scenes but we kept on winning
I answer again.
Did Klopp and Guardiola hire themselves. Or was their appointments made possible by a backroom structure that had a vision for sporting success.
Didnt Fergie have issues with the club before he left with regards to player recruitment? Was he not hamgstrung by transfer budget having to work with very little? It's testament to Fergie man management that we continued to see some success in his last year's.
This club is strange. Mitchell and Rangknick are both more qualified than Murtough is for his role
Neville will be like: Mitchell, is this what this club has come down to? First Rangnick, now Mitchell. Who are all these people?
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You also brought up Fergie, and Fergie might have had a simple setup, but everyone on the football side of the club was reporting to directly to Fergie. The like of Jim Lawlor who is still part of our recruitment structure was Fergie's scout. Not everyone was reporting to Mourinho and Solskjaer, because they were afforded the luxury of having their own recruitment staff. It's the same as what Liverpool were doing with Rodgers.
You discern the difference by giving the recruitment structure the control of recruitment to set the directive at first team level. And the successful teams do that in the modern game by having a head of football operations who has the power to make decisions independently from the head coach, and he has the recruitment structure working under him. It's the work of a team of about 80 people and not one one guy who comes in as a mythical Sporting Director, with a magic wand, like some seem to think.
You also brought up Fergie, and Fergie might have had a simple setup, but everyone on the football side of the club was reporting to directly to Fergie. The like of Jim Lawlor who is still part of our recruitment structure was Fergie's scout. Not everyone was reporting to Mourinho and Solskjaer, because they were afforded the luxury of having their own recruitment staff. It's the same as what Liverpool were doing with Rodgers.
Klopp was an obvious hire if available, they got lucky with the timing
I don’t think you need some magic formula to make that decision
Ed Woodward approached Klopp with the pitch that United was like an adult Disneyland.
He proceeded to remain at Dortmund
So yeah I agree, no magic formula is needed. You just need footballing personnel to make footballing decisions. I guess such a formula looks attractive to managers wanting to succeed at elite clubs.
Ed Woodward approached Klopp with the pitch that United was like an adult Disneyland.
He proceeded to remain at Dortmund
So yeah I agree, no magic formula is needed. You just need footballing personnel to make footballing decisions. I guess such a formula looks attractive to managers wanting to succeed at elite clubs.
true but the timing wasn't right for us re: Klopp
when he was at Dortmund he said he'd never break his contract, so I could never see Woody of all people convincing him to leave them
in the end he left because he felt it was the right decision after a huge slump, and not because Liverpool or any other club came calling
but yeah, we badly needed footballing men making those decisions which we have now so.. fingers crossed!
it boggles the mind that Woody was in charge of that for so long
Interesting timing.
Mitchell was a confirmed guest speaker at a football event I am involved in which starts today. Wonder if he pulls out now because of this.
I rate him very highly and would love to see him in some capacity at United.
Mitchell was a confirmed guest speaker at a football event I am involved in which starts today. Wonder if he pulls out now because of this.
I rate him very highly and would love to see him in some capacity at United.
Why do you rate him highly?
I know how he works behind the scenes and he has a good track record of identifying gems in the transfer market, starting with his time at MK Dons.
As a club we are in yet another rebuild and I don’t think we can continue to spend huge money on a single player, so having someone like Mitchell come in and identify undervalued talent could be just what we need.
He is the kind of Sporting Director that needs alignment from the football and commercial departments to be successful though. I wonder if he will get the autonomy at United to make a difference, but with Ralf here perhaps that could be the case.
Yeah it all comes down to how much say he has. Knowing the clowns running the club, its difficult get excited.
I don't think it's that simple. Liverpool nearly won the league 1.5/2 seasons before Klopp arrived while we haven't mounted a challenge in 9 seasons. So they were obviously doing something right. Also, a few of Klopp's signings were the clubs picks rather than his, and he trusted their decision making on them. So while a top manager has a huge impact, the rest of the club isn't irrelevant at least not in the modern game where the managers get a lot of support to focus more on coaching.
Good post. Just curious about the bolded part;
A) «Did not last». Was he fired? Never seen anything about that?
B) I thought Red Bull International also included Leipzig? Read several times that Mitchells responsbility, as technical director, also included Leipzig (in addition to Bargarantino and NY).
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But if he does end up getting sacked at Monaco then I'd be happy to see him at United. But I don't think fans should only focus on Mitchell for the role in question because there's many capable people who can be hired for the role imo.
No he wasn't fired mate, he got offered the Sporting director's role at Monaco and naturally took the job. But my point was that it's strange for anyone to call Mitchell one of the best Sporting director's in the world for his work at the two Red Bull satellite clubs as technical director when he was only there a short time and the two clubs he was in charge of weren't even the big two RedBull clubs.
But if he does end up getting sacked at Monaco then I'd be happy to see him at United. But I don't think fans should only focus on Mitchell for the role in question because there's many capable people who can be hired for the role imo.
Yes of course. Definitely an expert in modern football structure. You are as clueless as I am, and nearly everyone else on this message board about this subject.
The only thing I have some idea of is the importance of a brilliant manager. This is an obvious statement.
I don't think any sporting director can come in and make an immediate difference. It probably takes years to see good progress and their work. When clubs try and get a quick fix like Monchi at Roma or Walsh at Everton it seems to fail.
Happy for any competent sporting director to come in and put a structure in place that hopefully we can benefit from in the next 5-10 years. That's not to say that we won't challenge for trophies in that time but as long as we can see progression I'm sure most fans will be happy.
Klopp didn't come into Liverpool straight away, and start getting results and challenging for titles. He had some shocking results in the first 12 months with some fans questioning whether he was good enough, but most could see the progress the club were making and it took time for Klopp and the board of directors to put in place what would work for them going forward.
Same with Pep at City, even most pundits were saying you can't play this way in the PL and it won't work. There was massive criticism after the 4-0 defeat at Everton, but I'm sure the board at City and Pep knew that there would be days like that.
Happy for any competent sporting director to come in and put a structure in place that hopefully we can benefit from in the next 5-10 years. That's not to say that we won't challenge for trophies in that time but as long as we can see progression I'm sure most fans will be happy.
Klopp didn't come into Liverpool straight away, and start getting results and challenging for titles. He had some shocking results in the first 12 months with some fans questioning whether he was good enough, but most could see the progress the club were making and it took time for Klopp and the board of directors to put in place what would work for them going forward.
Same with Pep at City, even most pundits were saying you can't play this way in the PL and it won't work. There was massive criticism after the 4-0 defeat at Everton, but I'm sure the board at City and Pep knew that there would be days like that.
Tottenham who haven't won a feckin trophy in how many years? Another specialist in failure.
To identify players is his job not make them win.
I am ok with him if he brings along Tchouameni.
I'm not an expert. The way City and Liverpool are structured and how that structure functions with the manager to get results is not rocket science.
City and Liverpool have strong managerial support structures in place. City recruited their DOF years before they hired Pep. Liverpool have a recruitment committee setup prior to the arrival of Klopp.
A good manager helps sure but he needs competent people in the key positions to support him. There's a reason Klopp chose not to come to United.
Id take Phil Mitchell as SD at this rate
Delaney reading Twitter again.