Fernandez? That's who the poster is talking about
Patrick Dorgu | Medical today? No. Weekend.
- Thread starter bosskeano
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
To me that shows he doesn't need to tackle as much because he's covering the interception, down to good positioning.Doesn't look like it no
One of the things said about Amorim at Sporting is that he had his system, and then had to keep replacing players because Sporting frequently had their best players bought by other teams. Wasn’t his overall transfer dealings £100m in profit?
For everyone arguing which player we should buy for this key position, they seem to ignore the fact that it appears Amorim thinks Dorgu is the best fit for what his formation requires.
This isn’t the first time he has had to find a player for this role, or convert a player for this role, or develop a player in this role. I trust in his judgement on this one.
For everyone arguing which player we should buy for this key position, they seem to ignore the fact that it appears Amorim thinks Dorgu is the best fit for what his formation requires.
This isn’t the first time he has had to find a player for this role, or convert a player for this role, or develop a player in this role. I trust in his judgement on this one.
Or he's not a very good defender
Intercepting is a huge part of defending, especially as a full back.Or he's not a very good defender
So is tackling players mate and he looks pretty poor.
I do think he has potential but there’s no way we should be paying the fees reported. I really hope this club comes to its senses and starts walking away when we’re being extorted. Surely, we have scouts capable of unearthing other young players with potential - that’s what other clubs do.
For reference here is a screenshot of Dorgu's defensive numbers versus wingers:
Not much use comparing it to wingers.For reference here is a screenshot of Dorgu's defensive numbers versus wingers:
Diluted by his games playing as full back. Percentiles don't really work on a player that has roughly equal number of matches as winger and full backFor reference here is a screenshot of Dorgu's defensive numbers versus wingers:
68.6% of tackles won - 57.9% of duels won.
They have the best defense in the league.
Why should he go out of his way to make tackles and duels when he doesn't have to.
He's been playing as a winger and that's the profile we are looking at, not a traditional fullback.
We are looking for a winger that can defend.
Those stats are Champions League mate.
Would have imagined that Amorim got a good look at him in Portugal last year during his time at Sporting.
If there's not much interest there, even with our clause, then he's clearly looking at a different profile
He's been playing as a left back so those defensive numbers against other wingers are skewed.
The problem is he's played as both. So you're always comparing a mixture of fb and winger. If you compare that to wingers, his defensive percentiles will be good, offensive ones less so. Vice versa for a comparison with full backs
He’s even played RW this season against Venezia in which he scored the winner in a 1-0 win. Good versatility
Agree, this is where looking at stats alone doesn't give you an accurate picture.
Would make sense for lecce to lower the price for him but then whack on a sell on clause. If he becomes a world beater and we sold him for quite a bit later on down the line then they’d be picking up the rest of the money there.
Half his games this year are as RW. I have no idea why we are entertaining this at all. Dalot is versatile too, he can be shit just about everywhere.
This!
If he becomes a world beater United aren’t going to sell him. It’s pointless for Lecce have that clause put in.
You're correct. Murtough actually bought the player to the club as a 17 year old from Real Madrid's youth for peanuts like he did Garnacho from Atletico Madrid. The only player Murtough signed directly via his own scouts that was deemed a little expensive at the time was Amad. But even that €20m upfront cost for Amad is looking good right now.
It was INEOS who sanctioned the youngster's move to Benfica and I believe it was the correct move for both player and club at the time. I think United need someone explosive to play as the wingback on either side to provide width in the current formation and also the ability to get up and down the pitch. Basically what we're looking for is somewhat similar to what Ryan Giggs provided in the 442 formation in yester years. I don't know alot about Dorgu who we're reported to be after but hope he lives up to his potential.
Before folks lose their shit about him being a great defender, they'd do well to keep in mind that Amorim's wingbacks are more like wingers with defensive duties. Defensive positioning and duties are structurally necessary but individual and unique defensive capabilities are not a prerequisite. That means that it's pointless to compare defensive stats with actual full-backs since the operating principles differ.
Lecce are trying to do us dirty Dorgu style with this deal. Time to pull out.
*something about a Dutch coach also making a lot of profit and a Brazilian being the best fit hindering our current RW from getting into the first time*
But hey, its been so much fun, lets do it again.
Which INEOS employee would’ve sanctioned it?
I have a hard time giving Murtough credit for the Amad deal when he got rid of the chief scout that pushed for us to sign him a year after.
Because Amorim thinks he is the right player for this role in his system.
Ah ok - so we are going to judge Amorim’s ability to identity a player on ETH’s results?
Makes perfect sense when you put it like that.
Edit - and, this signing would hinder our current LWB from getting into the first team, so another plus.
It doesn't matter whether it was Ratcliffe, Brailsford or Wilcox who sanctioned it. I believe it was the correct thing to do for both the player's personal development and for the club. Because as things stand the formation Amorim is using requires the wingbacks to provide the explosiveness on the wing. I don't know alot about Dorgu but it seems they've identified him as a player they feel can develop to a high level with the requisite attributes.
Wilcox wasn’t at the club until April. Ratcliffe and Brailsford wouldn’t have had anything to do with U21 loan agreements so it falls on Murtough, that was his authority at the time. I think it was a daft thing for the club to do. It left us with no fit left back, having to use the likes of Wan Bissaka, Lindelof and Casemiro there.
I don't believe it was a daft thing to do at all because I don't believe Fernandez would've developed the way he has without playing regular football at Benfica and neither is he someone who I feel has the explosiveness to replicate what Amorim wants from his wingbacks.
Nuno Mendes and Geovany Quenda are two young players who I personally would've liked to see us sign for the wingback role. And if Alvaro Fernandes wasn't associated with the club, I don't believe he'd even be a topic of discussion especially in the formation Amorim wants to implement.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 19,314
- Supports
️
If only there was a role that combined the two positions full-ger.
Wack
Percentiles still won't properly work that way. You inevitably end up comparing his winger games with fullbacks or his fullback games with wingers
Nothing to do with Murtough. Ten Hag had vetos over transfers and loan deals. He explicitly said he would not play him, therefore Alvaro was sold.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 19,314
- Supports
- ️
My point is I think it’s silly to have a player we all know flicks between LB and Wing and question their suitability to play wingback.
I’ve done even more reading and watching into Amorim’s system, what Dorgu is and isn’t and played around with some data and I don’t think we’ll find a significantly better 6ft+ option.
He could’ve been on a similar path with regular football here, Benfica has been great experience for him but the cheap buy option was an incredibly poor move given our squad options.
We have a buy back clause for a player in a position we have zero players for at the moment, whilst having reported interest from Real Madrid and Barcelona, so it’s going to be a topic of discussion.
Last edited: