Patrice Evra | 2012/13 Performances

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He has become rather annoying. Hopefully our new Dutchman can put him under pressure in the coming weeks.
 
kouroux said:
Who plays on the right side at Newcastle ? If Ben Arfa is put there (he plays more centrally these days) then it really could help get ugly for Evra.He's the type of players he has no chance of stopping, a skilful player with pace running at you
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He did well against Lennon on Saturday to be fair.
 
MUFCgal said:
Yeah, I noticed a few times last night he struggled to get back into position. Whether that's down to laziness or he's lost pace, I don't know.

Buttner needs a good run of games IMO.
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Laziness. He's still got a turn of pace, you can see it when he attacks.

Cluj's goal was SO similar to one of Basel's last year. Ball goes wide right and Evra ambles over and lets the guy trap it, look up and deliver.

Any winger who has the balls to go at him looks like he'll turn him inside out, these days. It's a sad sight as I think he was the best left-back going once upon a time.
 
Every team knows if you attack our left side you'll get results.

You don't count the number of great games paddy has anymore...you count how many feckups or out of position plays he has which lead to goals. Sadly Fergie will keep playing him though...like the blackhole that has existed in our midfield the leftback position has managed to escape Fergie's gaze for a few years now.
 
Orton said:
Another game and another goal down our left side. Good stuff
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This would be a good point... if we had conceded a goal down our left side recently.

Evra fecked up badly yesterday, but lets not get too sensationalist.
 
He would wanna sort his shit out fast. He and the defense in general cant keep giving away cheap goals and opportunites to our opponents like they have otherwise we will end up with feckk all this season.
 
Forevergiggs said:
He recovered well to get back for the first goal yesterday but then did nothing to challenge the cross from the Cluj player. It was a very lazy piece of defending.

I would not like him to start in the Newcastle game. Buttman is a bit of a sending off worry with his over-enthusiasm but I would still give him a shot ahead of Evra.
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He was miles out of position and too far forward to be able to get back in place and make a meaningful contribution - that to me is a major problem.

Buttner has played well in his limited appearences so far and frankly Evra doesn't deserve his place. To me its a simple as that. Poor performances need to lead to being dropped - especially where a player has been consistently poor. Hopefully Fergie wields the axe and gives teh young lad a chance.
 
MUFCgal said:
Yeah, I noticed a few times last night he struggled to get back into position. Whether that's down to laziness or he's lost pace, I don't know.

Buttner needs a good run of games IMO.
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You see it a lot with defenders who get to a certain age.

Evra was never positionally top drawer, but his ability to get back covered for that. He now faces the same challenge as Rio Ferdinand in having to change his game so he has a better starting position when asked to defend - he needs to think more.

Difficulty is that's much harder for a full back who is expected to be able to attack as well, than a centre-back who can sit a bit deeper and concentrate on defending. I suspect its something he won't overcome and this season will be his last for United before he heads of to PSG.
 
That would be really interesting to look at actually..

How many goals do we concede down our left flank rather than our right? or runs through the middle.

The weird thing is against tottenham most the goals came down Rafa's side.
 
Adam-Utd said:
That would be really interesting to look at actually..

How many goals do we concede down our left flank rather than our right? or runs through the middle.

The weird thing is against tottenham most the goals came down Rafa's side.
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Yet only in the third goal he could have acted better. In no way the first 2 goals were Rafael's fault, while yesterday's goal was simply Evra forgetting what he is suposed to do. Rafael at the moment is playing much better than Evra.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Yet only in the third goal he could have acted better. In no way the first 2 goals were Rafael's fault, while yesterday's goal was simply Evra forgetting what he is suposed to do. Rafael at the moment is playing much better than Evra.
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You watch Rafael for Bale's goal saturday - is running with him rather than a) trying to stay with him and force him to pass/shoot early or b) trying to race back and cover in behind he does neither and gives up - might have made no difference, but not acceptable anyway.

Gary Neville slaughtered him (and the rest of the back four) on Monday Night Football.

Rafael is a much of a concern for me - played plenty of games now and doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. Can't hide being being "young" when he's not showing much significant progress in ridding his game of mistakes.
 
Why have these problems not been addressed? Who is our defense coach? Why have the players been allowed to carry on making the same errors? If it has been patently obvious to the fans, why has no-one on the staff spotted the problem? It is really unprofessional for any Club to be so slack, in fact it's negligent.

No wonder SAF would not allow anyone to watch training on Monday and to include some defensive routines.
 
RedRover said:
You watch Rafael for Bale's goal saturday - is running with him rather than a) trying to stay with him and force him to pass/shoot early or b) trying to race back and cover in behind he does neither and gives up - might have made no difference, but not acceptable anyway.

Gary Neville slaughtered him (and the rest of the back four) on Monday Night Football.

Rafael is a much of a concern for me - played plenty of games now and doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. Can't hide being being "young" when he's not showing much significant progress in ridding his game of mistakes.
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Rafael wasn't at fault at Bale's goal. fecking hell just because Bale plays in left wing that doesn't mean that Rafael should mark him in every position of the pitch. The fault was because our centre backs were not near each other, so Bale was 1 on 1 with Rio and of course that beat him. But saying that it was Rafael's fault is simply not true, cause he has to protect his part of the pitch, not centre-left side.

The last comment, well I cannot disagree more with you. Rafael is our best defender in this start of the season and together with RVP our best player. And if you are not seeing his progress, despite being young (he is 22), well...
 
Neville's analysis was excellent on the issues against spurs and in general and it wasn't great for the fullbacks. I dunno what's happening with evra but his awareness of what's around him seems to be non existant. Amount of times you see the ball go past him and he acts as if its going to go out of play or something and then realises there's someone there, or you just see him staring as a situation is developing. I dunno if its just him or if there is a big lack of communication atm. Lacking two midfielders who can give proper protection for such a wide team does put pressure on the fullbacks but a lot of the errors defensively seem to be down to some individual things as well.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Rafael wasn't at fault at Bale's goal. fecking hell just because Bale plays in left wing that doesn't mean that Rafael should mark him in every position of the pitch. The fault was because our centre backs were not near each other, so Bale was 1 on 1 with Rio and of course that beat him. But saying that it was Rafael's fault is simply not true, cause he has to protect his part of the pitch, not centre-left side.

The last comment, well I cannot disagree more with you. Rafael is our best defender in this start of the season and together with RVP our best player. And if you are not seeing his progress, despite being young (he is 22), well...
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Wrong, on the 2nd goal, Rafael see's Bale making a run and does nothing. There is no point in running to your Right back position if we are a) being caught on the break and b) there's nobody there to mark/pick-up. Rafa should realise his CB's will need help and that Bale (his man) is making a run. He was in a position where he could have tracked him/closing down but chose not to.

The CB's weren't great either, but Rafa should have done a lot better.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Wrong, on the 2nd goal, Rafael see's Bale making a run and does nothing. There is no point in running to your Right back position if we are a) being caught on the break and b) there's nobody there to mark/pick-up. Rafa should realise his CB's will need help and that Bale (his man) is making a run. He was in a position where he could have tracked him/closing down but chose not to.

The CB's weren't great either, but Rafa should have done a lot better.
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With no-body you mean only Rio and Evans. It was that kind of situation when everytime you expect the full back protecting his part of the pitch, nor marking the player in the entirely other part.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
With no-body you mean only Rio and Evans. It was that kind of situation when everytime you expect the full back protecting his part of the pitch, nor marking the player in the entirely other part.
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... he's hardly in entirely the other part, when the move starts, Rafael is about 5/10 yards away from Bale. And why should he protect his part of the pitch? From what exactly?! Also, do you know whats better then a 1 vs 1 from a defensive point of view? a 1 vs. 2.

Evans of course doesn't help matters with his weird positioning and subsequent tracking of Defoe. But with Rafael knowing Bale is their Left Winger, and knowing he's quick, he should be moving to track him in a situation where we're being caught on the break.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
... he's hardly in entirely the other part, when the move starts, Rafael is about 5/10 yards away from Bale. And why should he protect his part of the pitch? From what exactly?! Also, do you know whats better then a 1 vs 1 from a defensive point of view? a 1 vs. 2.

Evans of course doesn't help matters with his weird positioning and subsequent tracking of Defoe. But with Rafael knowing Bale is their Left Winger, and knowing he's quick, he should be moving to track him in a situation where we're being caught on the break.
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I don't think that when Bale got the ball, all other Spurs players stopped. If Rafael would have marked him then he would have left an empty space in the right part of the pitch. Thing is, it doesn't matter that Bale is their left winger, when he is not in that part then our right back should not mark him, unless the coach has said to him to be Bale's shadow. If it would have been only Rio then yes, but as Rafael has seen there was Evans too and he decided to not track Bale because it was a completely managable situation by our centre backs.
 
Only seen the goal we gave up and not sure what the ruckus is about. Every time Scholes or Rooney pings a ball out wide like the one that was played out to Sogudo(sp?), everyone praises their ability. to play that ball. It's not well the defender is out of place so they are easily able to get the ball out there.

For the play the Cluj winger was able to get a great first touch that let him get that got him that couple extra steps on on Evra. Any other touch and Evra had him covered just fine plus his positioning was such that anyone breaking through the middle he would have been able to cover as well.

Over the weekend when Bale broke free, the moaning was about Evra not being in position to cover that kind of situation.

At least for the goal yesterday I don't see what Evra did really wrong.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
I don't think that when Bale got the ball, all other Spurs players stopped. If Rafael would have marked him then he would have left an empty space in the right part of the pitch. Thing is, it doesn't matter that Bale is their left winger, when he is not in that part then our right back should not mark him, unless the coach has said to him to be Bale's shadow. If it would have been only Rio then yes, but as Rafael has seen there was Evans too and he decided to not track Bale because it was a completely managable situation by our centre backs.
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And, as there is no Spurs player around to exploit it, then that isn't a problem. You're forgetting that Spurs are on the counter attack, and so it's imperitive you get as many men back as possible. Evans had Defoe (poorly) so I'm not sure how you would regard it as a "manageable situation" . You really need to watch the goal again



Rafael starts as if he's going to go with Bale, then for some reason just decides against doing so completely. If he's thinking about closing down Demebele instead, then he should be looking to move the other way, which he isn't, so I'm not sure what he's doing. Evans being so far behind Ferdinand and not close to Defoe either just compounds the situation and means Bale has a fairly hassle free run to goal.
 
Evra is SAF's first choice in left back position and I don't see any players giving Evra a hard time when he doesn't get back in time to cover or stop crosses. Maybe his just following instructions from the coaches.
 
Yeah, Fergie probably says something like this to him:

"Pat, when you see winger trying to cross, don't you dare to stop him, your energy is so important to our attacking play, your two assits per season are gold worthy".
 
Annihilate Now! said:
... he's hardly in entirely the other part, when the move starts, Rafael is about 5/10 yards away from Bale. And why should he protect his part of the pitch? From what exactly?! Also, do you know whats better then a 1 vs 1 from a defensive point of view? a 1 vs. 2.

Evans of course doesn't help matters with his weird positioning and subsequent tracking of Defoe. But with Rafael knowing Bale is their Left Winger, and knowing he's quick, he should be moving to track him in a situation where we're being caught on the break.
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It's not clear what you think he should have done. At the start of the counter attack he had responsibility for Dembele. Because of this, as you say, he was 5 - 10 yards behind Bale when Bale started his run. Rafael had no chance of catching him and Rio was in position to pick him up. Should Rafael have run the same route that Rio ran (but a couple of yards behind him), should he have joined Evans in marking Defoe, or what? You suggest that he should have been "moving to track him" - an impossibility until Dembele gave up the ball. Essentially it's criticism for criticism's sake without any basis in reality.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
And, as there is no Spurs player around to exploit it, then that isn't a problem. You're forgetting that Spurs are on the counter attack, and so it's imperitive you get as many men back as possible. Evans had Defoe (poorly) so I'm not sure how you would regard it as a "manageable situation" . You really need to watch the goal again



Rafael starts as if he's going to go with Bale, then for some reason just decides against doing so completely. If he's thinking about closing down Demebele instead, then he should be looking to move the other way, which he isn't, so I'm not sure what he's doing. Evans being so far behind Ferdinand and not close to Defoe either just compounds the situation and means Bale has a fairly hassle free run to goal.
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He doesn't go with him because then all the defenders would be overlapping in each others' positions. Bale moved central, so one of Rio or Evans should have stepped up to take him. In my opinion, evans completely fecked up there by going behind Rio, leaving Bale with an easy route to goal. What should have happened is Defoe makes the run across, Rio starts marking him instead of Evans and Evans goes up to get Bale. That way all the players would still be in their positions instead of the defenders being everywhere.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
And, as there is no Spurs player around to exploit it, then that isn't a problem. You're forgetting that Spurs are on the counter attack, and so it's imperitive you get as many men back as possible. Evans had Defoe (poorly) so I'm not sure how you would regard it as a "manageable situation" . You really need to watch the goal again



Rafael starts as if he's going to go with Bale, then for some reason just decides against doing so completely. If he's thinking about closing down Demebele instead, then he should be looking to move the other way, which he isn't, so I'm not sure what he's doing. Evans being so far behind Ferdinand and not close to Defoe either just compounds the situation and means Bale has a fairly hassle free run to goal.
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Such an absurd post.
 
Amar__ said:
Yeah, Fergie probably says something like this to him:

"Pat, when you see winger trying to cross, don't you dare to stop him, your energy is so important to our attacking play, your two assits per season are gold worthy".
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May be an extreme Way of putting it, but its just odd that he neglects his defensive duties almost every game and is always involved in attacks that starts on the left. Coupled with the fact that we really don't see any of the other players giving him stick or blaming him when crosses come in from that side.
Our coaches must see what we see, so the only explanation is that they possibly okay with his performance or Mike Phelan is his bitch.
 
bosnian_red said:
He doesn't go with him because then all the defenders would be overlapping in each others' positions. Bale moved central, so one of Rio or Evans should have stepped up to take him. In my opinion, evans completely fecked up there by going behind Rio, leaving Bale with an easy route to goal. What should have happened is Defoe makes the run across, Rio starts marking him instead of Evans and Evans goes up to get Bale. That way all the players would still be in their positions instead of the defenders being everywhere.
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I know what you mean and I think Evans even gives up at the end when he could have essentially had a fleeting chance to get in and possibly clear of the line if he goes full tilt like he should have been.

I just want to point out there that Carrick is supposedly playing in that screening role and where the feck is he? You see him at the start to the right of screen just jogging back.

The feck? Just jogging back?.. WHY?
 
ravelston said:
It's not clear what you think he should have done. At the start of the counter attack he had responsibility for Dembele. Because of this, as you say, he was 5 - 10 yards behind Bale when Bale started his run. Rafael had no chance of catching him and Rio was in position to pick him up. Should Rafael have run the same route that Rio ran (but a couple of yards behind him), should he have joined Evans in marking Defoe, or what? You suggest that he should have been "moving to track him" - an impossibility until Dembele gave up the ball. Essentially it's criticism for criticism's sake without any basis in reality.
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If he has a responsibility for Dembele then he's done that poorly as well, as he's not made a move towards him at any point. Rafael started off by looking as if he was following Bale, then slowed down to watch what Dembele was doing (without actually closing him down). Considering how quick Bale is, and Rafael is our fastest defender by some distance, then yes, I would want him to pick up Bale and stick with him. He started off doing this, then stopped early on.

bosnian_red said:
He doesn't go with him because then all the defenders would be overlapping in each others' positions. Bale moved central, so one of Rio or Evans should have stepped up to take him. In my opinion, evans completely fecked up there by going behind Rio, leaving Bale with an easy route to goal. What should have happened is Defoe makes the run across, Rio starts marking him instead of Evans and Evans goes up to get Bale. That way all the players would still be in their positions instead of the defenders being everywhere.
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I agree with the Evans part, I've said it many times... he shouldn't be so far behind Rio, they should be in a line, allowing them to switch easily when Defoe makes a run across. Rafael can easily run back with Bale though... defenders overlapping position isn't an issue, they'd simply be doubling up. If our CB was a younger quicker Rio, or if it wasn't Gareth Bale making the run, then it wouldn't matter, but as that wasn't the case, you'd think our defenders would know a bit about the opposition to adapt.

Phil said:
Such an absurd post.
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Cheers. And an excellent critical analysis from yourself... oh wait.
 
Best game he's had in years...

This is the Evra we've been waiting for, great in defense and a providing a threat while attacking as well. Hopefully the next one doesn't take another couple of years.
 
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