Patrice Evra | 2008-12 Performances

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Seriously though... we're rounding on the guy because he got rinsed by a very good, very quick Daniel Sturridge twice in a game?? The first goal, yes he got beaten easily, but he did the right thing in showing him down the line onto his weaker foot... if he had let him cut inside onto his left that would have been terrible defending.

The foul for the free-kick is a pretty standard foul that most full-backs concede. Conceding soft free-kicks is a staple to Rafael's game, yet I don't see half as many people moaning??
 
He wasnt at fault for the third AN, no doubt about it. Cant blame him for defending a set piece like spastics.

But, he did play a huge part in the 1st goal. sturridge should never have got past him in that less space.. beaten and left flat footed too easily there.
 
Varun_Utd said:
He wasnt at fault for the third AN, no doubt about it. Cant blame him for defending a set piece like spastics.

But, he did play a huge part in the 1st goal. sturridge should never have got past him in that less space.. beaten and left flat footed too easily there.
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I agree on both points, but all I'm saying is, for the 1st goal he did get beaten easily, but he still showed him down the line, onto his weaker foot. Remember, this is in the penalty box and Sturridge is both very quick and enjoys a tumble, so I can see why Evra didn't want to make a challenge and showed him down the line. Sturridge still had a lot to do from the position he was in, and was very very fortunate to get a goal... so it wasn't exactly the worst defending in the world.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
This all seems a bit overblown to me, his defending doesnt strike me as being anywhere near as bad as is being made out.
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But what do you expect from this place, it's all or nothing.

I think he had one really poor defensive moment in the match, and that he made up for that later on by winning us the pen and getting us back into the game.

Won't stop caftards completely slating him though and then trying to blame him for possibly all 3 goals.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I agree on both points, but all I'm saying is, for the 1st goal he did get beaten easily, but he still showed him down the line, onto his weaker foot. Remember, this is in the penalty box and Sturridge is both very quick and enjoys a tumble, so I can see why Evra didn't want to make a challenge and showed him down the line. Sturridge still had a lot to do from the position he was in, and was very very fortunate to get a goal... so it wasn't exactly the worst defending in the world.
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Yep, definitely not the worst he could have done but you'd expect him to cut out the cross and concede a corner in all fairness.
 
Plechazunga said:
So do opposing wingers... to Evra
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No denying. That's generally because they are technically more gifted than defenders.

You can easily put up an argument to replace Evra with a left back who is a better defender, but will he provide the same drive going forward? It's a fine balance the coaches have to weigh up. I'd say with the way Evra plays the opposing team is already on the back foot. Anyway, our goal stats prove we very likely have the right balance.

There is also a difference in how we play compared to say more defensively set up teams putting added burden on Evra. Playing with 2 central midfielders means there is less cover for Evra, and usually a lot of space on his patch when he is in attacking mode. The guy covers a lot of ground and is generally very good despite the fact he has cost us a couple of goals with his mistakes. It would also help his cause if he had a winger putting in the same sort of shift Valencia puts in on the right. I reckon his mistake against Liverpool was tiredness, and yesterday it was the attacker being just too good.
 
Varun_Utd said:
He wasnt at fault for the third AN, no doubt about it. Cant blame him for defending a set piece like spastics.

But, he did play a huge part in the 1st goal. sturridge should never have got past him in that less space.. beaten and left flat footed too easily there.
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Yes you can, we set up with a zonal marking system. We set up properly, david luiz nudges him and Evra just doesn't even attempt to stay with him which is why luiz had a free header. That space is Evra's to defend.

Goal Luiz 5/2/2012 HD
 
Varun_Utd said:
He wasnt at fault for the third AN, no doubt about it. Cant blame him for defending a set piece like spastics.

But, he did play a huge part in the 1st goal. sturridge should never have got past him in that less space.. beaten and left flat footed too easily there.
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The first goal was just great play from the attacker.

It's all very well for the pundits to be all high and mighty sat in the commentary team, and assess at how it could have been avoided. It's a different game when actually playing. Obviously they've never been beaten whilst playing with wonderful skill during their careers.
 
8thWonder said:
Yes you can, we set up with a zonal marking system. We set up properly, david luiz nudges him and Evra just doesn't even attempt to stay with him which is why luiz had a free header. That space is Evra's to defend.

Goal Luiz 5/2/2012 HD
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Even in a zonal marking system, you cannot put a guy as tall as evra close to david luiz. it was a disaster waiting to happen and it did.

Look at the positioning just as Mata is about to take it. Carrick and Evra are the only one's ahead of luiz and sturridge with the rest of the defence behind them with just torres close to them. we set up poorly to defend it and paid the price. wasnt evra's fault at all. Rio needed to be ahead of luiz, not behind him.
 
8thWonder said:
Yes you can, we set up with a zonal marking system. We set up properly, david luiz nudges him and Evra just doesn't even attempt to stay with him which is why luiz had a free header. That space is Evra's to defend.

Goal Luiz 5/2/2012 HD
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Well that right there is where we went wrong then. Why the feck are we setting up Zonally?? And if we are, why is Patrice Evra in the middle of the box?? Surely are bigger players should be occupying that area?? If we're in a situation where Patrice Evra has to challenge David Luiz for the ball, there is something wrong.

Also, if we're going with the Zonal thing, you could blame Ferdinand too for the gap between him and Evra being way too large.

I'm not abolishing Evra from blame, I'm just saying there was far too much wrong with our defending for that goal to soley blame him.
 
towcester_red said:
Defensively he is poor. People on here have thier favourites who they struggle to hear a bad word said about but his defending for the first goal was awful.
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Strange post.

He's one of my favorites, but I personally have said numerous times here that the defending on the first goal was awful. I think nearly everyone who is defending Evra here is admitting that he's made a fair few defensive mistakes :confused:
 
Sultan said:
No denying. That's generally because they are technically more gifted than defenders.

You can easily put up an argument to replace Evra with a left back who is a better defender, but will he provide the same drive going forward? It's a fine balance the coaches have to weigh up. I'd say with the way Evra plays the opposing team is already on the back foot. Anyway, our goal stats prove we very likely have the right balance.

There is also a difference in how we play compared to say more defensively set up teams putting added burden on Evra. Playing with 2 central midfielders, means there is less cover for Evra, and usually a lot of space on his patch when he is in the attacking third. The guy covers a lot of ground and is generally very good despite the fact he has cost us a couple of goals with his mistakes. It would also help his cause if he had a winger putting in the same sort of shift Valencia puts in on the right. I reckon his mistake against Liverpool was tiredness, and yesterday it was the attacker being just too good.
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This is an excellent point.

Valencia attempted 15 tackles. More than any other player on the pitch. Almost 4 times as many as Young.

No wonder Evra was the more exposed of our two full-backs.

Also worth bearing in mind that Rafael - who many people were calling our MOTM - didn't offer nearly as much of a threat going forward as Evra did. I can barely remember him getting in the opposition box, while Evra was a constant thorn in their side, eventually winning us a penalty.

Basically, if yesterday's game is as bad a performance from Evra as many on here are claiming it was then it only shows how fantastic he is on a good day.
 
You guys are talking as if opposition teams have no right to ever score a goal against our defence. Chelsea have quality players quite capable of beating our defence.
 
towcester_red said:
Defensively he is poor. People on here have thier favourites who they struggle to hear a bad word said about but his defending for the first goal was awful.
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:confused:

You don't play for United for years if as a defender you are weak in defence.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You what? Says who? We always mark man to man at set-pieces.
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Yes we do but it didnt look that way for that free kick. it was evra on luiz for some reason with carrick ahead of him marking the grass and the rest behind him covering up the remaining space.
 
Sultan said:
Commentators.

Personally, I don't ever remember United playing with a zonal system.
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Indeed... but with the "success" that Liverpool had with it, you'd think we should...

Also agree with you on the Chelsea have good players standpoint. Daniel Sturridge is a quality footballer with extremely quick feet... it's not outlandish to think he would get the better of Evra a few times.

Ashley Cole is, by wide acceptance, an fantastic left-back... last year, Valencia ripped him apart. Do we put that down to Valencia being a good player or Cole being a shite defender??
 
Sultan said:
:confused:

You don't play for United for years if as a defender you are weak in defence.
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No, and Evra, for about three years, was a very decent defender.

His defensive game has been off for a couple of seasons now though, and this match was poor from him. Really poor. He's costing us key goals at key moments in the match.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You what? Says who? We always mark man to man at set-pieces.
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The link, its quite clear thats what we are doing imo, and also Gary Neville a few weeks ago was ripping into Wigan for not marking Zonally from a wide free kick.
 
Lets not forget he played a huge part in us winning the game, constantly providing an option on the left going forward, even into stoppage time.
 
marjen said:
No, and Evra, for about three years, was a very decent defender.

His defensive game has been off for a couple of seasons now though, and this match was poor from him. Really poor. He's costing us key goals at key moments in the match.
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What goal?

Sturridge going round Evra was Messi-esque.

Even the free kick given away by Evra from which Luiz scored was a decent tackle. It occasionally happens that a ball falls perfectly on an attackers head - which was the case when Luiz scored. It's the nature of the game.
 
Sultan said:
What goal?

Sturridge going round Evra was Messi-esque.

Even the free kick given away by Evra from which Luiz scored was a decent tackle. It occasionally happens that a ball falls perfectly on an attackers head - which was the case when Luiz scored. It's the nature of the game.
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I'm talking about the whole season. For the Mata goal, Evra was no where to be seen when Torres was allowed to simply swing in a cross under no pressure. That's not a big mistake, but it's poor defending, and no new issue.

I genuinely believe Evra should've done better for the first goal. It's not Messi-esque by any stretch of the imagination, it's basic defending - Rio covered the outside, and Sturridge had one place to go. Why do Evra stand on his heels, as opposed to backtrack towards the sideline and defend a cross? One little touch from Sturridge and he's skinned, and it's been happening an awful lot this season. It didn't happen two years ago.

As for the third goal, well that happens. But what about the Liverpool winner which sent us out of the cup? That's absolute sunday league-defending, and although I don't agree with that particular notion, excactly the kind of stuff which makes people think he's lazy. Honestly, it's a goal kick, there's no excuse to let Kuyt in behind there.

As for key goals last season, who can forget the Luiz-goal against Chelsea at the very same ground? It's just so infuriating that he gets simple, simple stuff wrong, and I'm not talking about when he's out of position due to bombing forward, I'm talking about when he's perfectly placed to deal with the situation. With his pace, he should do much better in 1 v 1-situations.
 
Sultan said:
What goal?

Sturridge going round Evra was Messi-esque.

Even the free kick given away by Evra from which Luiz scored was a decent tackle. It occasionally happens that a ball falls perfectly on an attackers head - which was the case when Luiz scored. It's the nature of the game.
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So, what you're saying is that sometimes the attacking player 'makes' the goal rather than it being bad defending. But that is the difference between average, good and great defenders, isn't it? The better ones cope with tricker/ better attackers better.

I would concede that point to you if this was a one off. And if we hadn't seen him set the high standards that he has. I actually think he isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. But yes, he does cost us goals by getting skinned too often. I don't see how playing a defensive winger in front of you might actually help if you keep getting skinned 1v1 against the opposition winger. It more to do with him not going into challenges too soon.
 
The biggest issue I have with Evra is his lack of composure after doing all the hard work getting into great positions in the attacking third.

Despite all the post mortem of his, and teams defending it's obvious is we're missing Vidic big time. That Luiz goal would never have been scored had we had Vidic.
 
Sultan said:
The first goal was just great play from the attacker.

It's all very well for the pundits to be all high and mighty sat in the commentary team, and assess at how it could have been avoided. It's a different game when actually playing. Obviously they've never been beaten whilst playing with wonderful skill during their careers.
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Dont agree sults. He was caught too flat footed. stood off and got beaten. He should have cut out the cross and conceded a corner. wasnt great play by any stretch. as a defender, you cannot be beaten that easily.

I've been one of evra's staunchest supporters and still am because unlike others, i reckon SAF gives him the permission to bomb on leaving others to cover for him because it adds a new dimension to our game. But, he gets beaten far too often on 1 v 1 situations.
 
Sultan said:
The biggest issue I have with Evra is his lack of composure after doing all the hard work getting into great positions in the attacking third.

Despite all the post mortem of his, and teams defending the obvious is we're missing Vidic big time. That Luiz goal would never have been scored had we had Vidic.
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Yeah, I think Evans has been attacking the ball quite well of late, but without Smalling and Vidic we lack the aerial resiliance.

That's not to say Evra should allow as many dangerous balls into the box as he does.
 
crappycraperson said:
That's complete non sense and OTT hyperbolic.

No way Evra should have allowed Sturrdige to go past him on the outside.
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Would you have preferred the alternative of showing him inside onto his stronger foot?? Yes, he got beaten easily(ish), but it wasn't the worst defending in the world... Sturride had been shown to the byline, onto his weaker foot, and was very very fortunate to score a goal.

marjen said:
I'm talking about the whole season. For the Mata goal, Evra was no where to be seen when Torres was allowed to simply swing in a cross under no pressure. That's not a big mistake, but it's poor defending, and no new issue.
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People need to stop saying this and actually watch the goal and the play as it unfolded... I said this earlier in the thread

"He was following his man (Sturridge) and Rio was tracking his man (Torres)... as most defenders would do. Then, when the ball shifted out wide to Torres who was away on the touchline, they decided it best to switch before Torres made his way to the edge of the box... I don't think either anticipated Torres would swing in an early cross... and why would you?? To say he was nowhere to be found is a lazy, lazy criticism."
 
Annihilate Now! said:
People need to stop saying this and actually watch the goal and the play as it unfolded... I said this earlier in the thread

"He was following his man (Sturridge) and Rio was tracking his man (Torres)... as most defenders would do. Then, when the ball shifted out wide to Torres who was away on the touchline, they decided it best to switch before Torres made his way to the edge of the box... I don't think either anticipated Torres would swing in an early cross... and why would you?? To say he was nowhere to be found is a lazy, lazy criticism."
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When the winger makes the run into the box, while players drift out wide, you simply switch, and them close them down. This happened WAY too slowly, and as a result, Torres had an eternity in which to pick his cross.

That being said, the marking in the box is terrible. Rafael should've had Mata there.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Dont agree sults. He was caught too flat footed. stood off and got beaten. He should have cut out the cross and conceded a corner. wasnt great play by any stretch. as a defender, you cannot be beaten that easily.

I've been one of evra's staunchest supporters and still am because unlike others, i reckon SAF gives him the permission to bomb on leaving others to cover for him because it adds a new dimension to our game. But, he gets beaten far too often on 1 v 1 situations.
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I have no problem in accepting there are better left backs at "defending" than Evra in the world. However, there are only a very few who can give the team so much, and are overall better.
 
marjen said:
When the winger makes the run into the box, while players drift out wide, you simply switch, and them close them down. This happened WAY too slowly, and as a result, Torres had an eternity in which to pick his cross.

That being said, the marking in the box is terrible. Rafael should've had Mata there.
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What? Rafael had the more dangerous man in the middle, should he have just left him free?
 
Sultan said:
I have no problem in accepting there are better left backs at "defending" than Evra in the world. However, there are only a very few who can give the team so much, and are overall better.
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Ofcourse, which is why i still believe what he provides going forward makes up for the lack of cover at the back which others have to make up for. Its clearly SAFs instructions as he'd never be able to do it week in week out if SAF didnt allow him to. He should still be our no 1 LB, just needs an occasional break. Why SAF doesnt trust fabio at all, i dont know.

Its just his defending on 1 v 1 situations that has declined noticeably past couple of seasons though and that cant really be masked. He's constantly targetted.
 
marjen said:
When the winger makes the run into the box, while players drift out wide, you simply switch, and them close them down. This happened WAY too slowly, and as a result, Torres had an eternity in which to pick his cross.

That being said, the marking in the box is terrible. Rafael should've had Mata there.
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It didn't though, it happened as soon as Sturridge made his way into the box and the ball shifted out wide to Torres, who was away on the touchline. Evra moved across straight away, and Torres simply crossed it very very early, much to everyones suprise. Unless we're blaming Evra for not being quicker then he is, then you just have to hold your hands up and say that's excellent play from Torres.

Also, I wouldn't be too harsh on Rafa... with Ferdinand coming back into the box he wasn't picking anyone up, which meant Evans had to move inside to pick up someone, and Rafael had to move in again to pick up the next man, as you're taught to always mark the man closest to the ball for an incoming cross. He possibly should have anticipated the flight of the cross and moved to close down Mata quicker, but that would be a very harsh criticism.
 
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