Paris terror attacks on Friday 13th

rednev said:
An excellent article from Douglas Murray in the Spectator (originally written after the Charlie Hebdo massacre but updated for this latest attack)

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/20...paris-attacks-had-something-to-do-with-islam/
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Is nobody else finding that a little bit selective.

It rather quickly dismisses the good parts of Islam and focusses on the bad, and then emphasises good aspects of Christianity and glazes over the bad.

Both religious texts have plenty in them that they should be rather ashamed of and which the majority of followers don't hold to, and both religions have an awful lot of blood and oppression on their hands. Neither is clean and neither is inherently bad.

As for the numbers stated for religions growing or not. Its all rather irrelevant comparing Christianity's numbers with those of Islam. Islam still has a very firm hold on its people in general, whereas Christianity is now far more thinned out. Massive amounts of people tagged as or still referring to themselves as Christians don't go to mass, and don't bother with many other aspects. Hell i know various people who would still tick Christian on the census because that's how they were brought up, but no longer actually believe in an almighty deity, the afterlife, or any other such foundation of the religion.

Christianity also holds very little political power by comparison to Islam, and these numbers don't take different sects into account. There are numerous sects within both religions that believe completely different things, and the only thing agreed on for many is the name they assign to their deity. Imam's and such in the Arabic states have a massive amount of political power over their countries where Christian leaders don't.
 
langster said:
I think it's the drummer. If you watch the video above, I think you can see him slump on to his drums, right at the end of the clip. I was just about to ask if anyone noticed it, but your post makes me think i'm right. Horrible.
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I don't think so. Looks to me that he seeks cover, and doesn't appear hit there. None of the members on the video.
 
GimmeAKitKat said:
Is nobody else finding that a little bit selective.

It rather quickly dismisses the good parts of Islam and focusses on the bad, and then emphasises good aspects of Christianity and glazes over the bad.

Both religious texts have plenty in them that they should be rather ashamed of and which the majority of followers don't hold to, and both religions have an awful lot of blood and oppression on their hands. Neither is clean and neither is inherently bad.

As for the numbers stated for religions growing or not. Its all rather irrelevant comparing Christianity's numbers with those of Islam. Islam still has a very firm hold on its people in general, whereas Christianity is now far more thinned out. Massive amounts of people tagged as or still referring to themselves as Christians don't go to mass, and don't bother with many other aspects. Hell i know various people who would still tick Christian on the census because that's how they were brought up, but no longer actually believe in an almighty deity, the afterlife, or any other such foundation of the religion.

Christianity also holds very little political power by comparison to Islam, and these numbers don't take different sects into account. There are numerous sects within both religions that believe completely different things, and the only thing agreed on for many is the name they assign to their deity. Imam's and such in the Arabic states have a massive amount of political power over their countries where Christian leaders don't.
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Absolutely. I'd compare it to the stuff in the Old Testament, which Christianity has long ago made its peace with. There's nothing inherent in Islam that should prevent the same.
 
Sunny Jim said:
UN claims that ~74% of "refugees" are able men, these "refugees" come from Syria but also Pakistan, Afganistan, North Africa, Balkans....

We don't even know how many "refugees" are there, but let take a conservative estimation than 1 mln have crossed the EU borders. Lets say that 1% is the radical minority willing to take some action- that's 10k potential terrorist, lets say that among these 1% have the opportunity to kill in the name of their religion. that's already 100 terrorist.

On Friday we had 7-8 terrorist. In each million of "refugees" you have potential 13-15 attacks like these on Friday.

Ill feeling you say? I'd call it a voice of reason.
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You are making a lot of assumptions there, but lets assume they are correct. I'm not saying people, or governments shouldn't be concerned about the threat posed by refugees (being an able bodied male doesn't mean you can't be a legitimate refugee btw).

I don't think ignoring the plight of 1m people, because there might be a few among them with bad intentions, is the voice of reason, I think it would be blind panic and plays directly into the hands of the extremists, enabling them to further push their agenda.

It also ignores the fact that those who carried out the 7/7 bombings, the Lee Rigby murder, the Montrouge shooting, the Charlie Hebdo attack, the Boston bombing, and most likely the majority of those involved in Paris were citizens of the country where they carried out their attacks.

If refugees are allowed into the EU it is not only a more humane approach but should also enable security services to better track people entering and taking up residency in EU countries.

If terrorists want to carry out attacks on EU or US soil they will find a way to get into those countries, but again more focus needs to be directed at tracking and preventing these individuals from carrying out their aims.

Closing borders, or simply turning those seeking asylum away, won't stop them and would have much more far reaching implications.
 
marukomu said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...995836/Paris-attacks-who-are-the-victims.html
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“Nick was in front of me when we were lying on the ground and somebody moved and they just turned round and started shooting us.

“His back was to me and I couldn’t see what happened and I tried to keep him talking and then I tried to give him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and they [the gunmen] were just sort of in the shadows and they would shoot if anyone said anything.

“Then he couldn’t breathe any more and I held him in my arms and told him I loved him. He was the love of my life.”
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:(

I get so riled up thinking about all this. It's just so brutal.
 
Lyricist said:
So Donald Trump suggests if Paris had a Texan approach to gun laws it would be in a better situation now.

Sorry for going off topic and even mentioning him in regards to these events. But to suggest everyone in Paris should always carry a gun is beyond ridiculous. Back to the seriousness of the Paris attacks though.
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That is completely right in this specific case. The problem is that for every time they would stop a terrorist act (not exactly stop, but have less victims) you would have 10 other mass shootings from nutters who can legally buy guns.
 
Lyricist said:
So Donald Trump suggests if Paris had a Texan approach to gun laws it would be in a better situation now.

Sorry for going off topic and even mentioning him in regards to these events. But to suggest everyone in Paris should always carry a gun is beyond ridiculous. Back to the seriousness of the Paris attacks though.
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As idiotic as it may sound, if these kind of attacks became frequent around here. I would consider getting strapped too.
 
How would they stop these sort of attacks?

How many shootings have we had in America? You hardly going to take a gun to a concert or football match. It would be chaos if we let guns in public events and this is what the terrorists targeted.
 
Bojan11 said:
How would they stop these sort of attacks?

How many shootings have we had in America? You hardly going to take a gun to a concert or football match. It would be chaos if we let guns in public events and this is what the terrorists targeted.
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I don't know, man. But the thought of being out with my missus and daughter, something like this happening and not being able to protect them drives me fecking nuts.

Not long after the Tunesia beach attacks, I've had a nightmare where I was with my family at the beach and some nutjob started opening fire on everyone. The feeling I had in that dream can't be described and will stay with me forever.
 
Amar__ said:
Apparently one member of the band is killed too. I am surprised it took them this long to report it.
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Don't think it was an actual band member but one of their crew. Apparently the British guy who was killed was their merchandising manager.
 
Vato said:
I don't know, man. But the thought of being out with my missus and daughter, something like this happening and not being able to protect them drives me fecking nuts.

Not long after the Tunesia beach attacks, I've had a nightmare where I was with my family at the beach and some nutjob started opening fire on everyone. The feeling I had in that dream can't be described and will stay with me forever.
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Bojan11 said:
How would they stop these sort of attacks?

How many shootings have we had in America? You hardly going to take a gun to a concert or football match. It would be chaos if we let guns in public events and this is what the terrorists targeted.
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I agree on both. Shit situation.
 
Kill 'em all said:
How can Europe remain so passive when the safety of our citizens within our borders is being threatened. "Standing side by side" and "prayers" is just more politically correct bullshit. Take a stand and tackle the problem.
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I sadly envision it getting worse before it gets any better.

It's interesting that ISIS, or whoever these militants are, openly choose to target Paris. France has had a long history of intergration issues, stemmed from giving independence to its former colonies and jus soli. Assimilation hasn't worked (even if winning the WC painted a happy picture), and their citizens are confused about what it means to 'be' French.

There are more disenfranchised groups there than say Britain. So it's easy for these terrorists to set up grassroots.
 
Kill 'em all said:
How can Europe remain so passive when the safety of our citizens within our borders is being threatened. "Standing side by side" and "prayers" is just more politically correct bullshit. Take a stand and tackle the problem.
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How do you suggest tackling the problem, outside of creating fear of all Muslims, leading to greater disenfranchisement and an increase in fundamentalism.
 
Penna said:
The projected stats say otherwise, particularly for Muslims.

pf_15.04.02_projectionstables8.png

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
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Very interesting, although I noticed the methodology is attempting to extrapolate variables like fertility, demographics and similar factors and omitted ideational changes, economic factors, changes in global social norms, and the diffusion of power away from the nation state in the coming decades, each of which imo will erode the pockets of compartmentalized identity where religion usually thrives. As human identity decompartmentalizes and moves towards shared interests and global norms, it will have a massive influence on the sustainability of individual cultures dominated by multiple religions.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I sadly envision it getting worse before it gets any better.

It's interesting that ISIS, or whoever these militants are, openly choose to target Paris. France has had a long history of intergration issues, stemmed from giving independence to its former colonies and jus soli. Assimilation hasn't worked (even if winning the WC painted a happy picture), and their citizens are confused about what it means to 'be' French.

There are more disenfranchised groups there than say Britain. So it's easy for these terrorists to set up grassroots.
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If you had the hijab rule in this country (United Kingdom) I guarantee there would be riots and plenty of blood shed.. in addition to inspiring countless previously 'moderate' muslims into supporting ISIS if not by deed but in their thoughts. For me personally, I do not think France has helped themselves in trying to create a united community.. it has encouraged division in my opinion.
 
Belgium: We lost control of Molenbeek
The Belgian government has admitted it has lost control of Molenbeek, the Brussels district at the centre of anti-terror raids yesterday in connection with the Paris attack, reports Matthew Holehouse in Molenbeek.

That five suspects were arrested there came as little surprise to residents - the little north African neighbourhood been linked to a series of plots in the past two years, including the Thalys train attacker who stayed with his sister in the area, the Vervier cell and Mehdi Nemmouche, who killed four in an attack on Belgium's Jewish museum last year.

Abdelmoumaim Haddad, who was sought by Belgian police in Spain on an international arrest warrant for terrorism charges in 2014, was also found in the district, as was Abdelkader Belliraj, a terrorist kingping jailed for life for arms smuggling and planning attacks in Morocco.

paris-belgium-mole_3501313b.jpg

Brussels' Molenbeek district where five people were arrested in connection with the Paris atrocities Photo: FP PHOTO/Emmanuel Dunand

Charles Michel, the Belgian prime minister, called for "repression" of extremists while his home secretary called for a "clean up" of the area, which with its discount clothes shops and kebab houses resembles London's Whitechapel.

"I see it is almost always related to Molenbeek. There is a huge problem," said Mr Michel. "In recent months, many initiatives have already been taken in the fight against radicalisation but we also need more repression. We will work intensively with the local authorities," he said.

The prime minister admitted his government let extremism take hold in Molenbeek.

"It is true that there often was connection between terrorist attacks and Molenbeek. It was a form of laxity, to allow this. We are paying the bill for past laxity. For several years now, Belgium has been on alert for the phenomenon of fighters who go to fight in Syria and return to European soil in order to carry out attacks."

"In Molenbeek, the situation is not under control at the moment," admitted Jan Jambon, the interior minister, vowing to "clean up" the area.

The area's liberal mayor, Francoise Shepmans, denies there is a problem, admitting only to "certain integration difficulties".

"They do not all come here," she said. "And most of the time, they are only passing through."
 
Raees said:
If you had the hijab rule in this country (United Kingdom) I guarantee there would be riots and plenty of blood shed.. in addition to inspiring countless previously 'moderate' muslims into supporting ISIS if not by deed but in their thoughts. For me personally, I do not think France has helped themselves in trying to create a united community.. it has encouraged division in my opinion.
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Didn't ISIS say they attacked France because of France's involvement in the bombing campaign in Syria rather than anything else. I argue against your point on the hijab about how it could possible turn ''moderate'' muslims into supporting ISIS not that I think it couldn't be true but more that describing anyone who at the drop of a hat or hijab(shite joke I know)would support a death cult like ISIS was hardly moderate at all.
 
Mrs Smoker said:
Belgium: We lost control of Molenbeek
The Belgian government has admitted it has lost control of Molenbeek, the Brussels district at the centre of anti-terror raids yesterday in connection with the Paris attack, reports Matthew Holehouse in Molenbeek.

That five suspects were arrested there came as little surprise to residents - the little north African neighbourhood been linked to a series of plots in the past two years, including the Thalys train attacker who stayed with his sister in the area, the Vervier cell and Mehdi Nemmouche, who killed four in an attack on Belgium's Jewish museum last year.

Abdelmoumaim Haddad, who was sought by Belgian police in Spain on an international arrest warrant for terrorism charges in 2014, was also found in the district, as was Abdelkader Belliraj, a terrorist kingping jailed for life for arms smuggling and planning attacks in Morocco.

paris-belgium-mole_3501313b.jpg

Brussels' Molenbeek district where five people were arrested in connection with the Paris atrocities Photo: FP PHOTO/Emmanuel Dunand

Charles Michel, the Belgian prime minister, called for "repression" of extremists while his home secretary called for a "clean up" of the area, which with its discount clothes shops and kebab houses resembles London's Whitechapel.

"I see it is almost always related to Molenbeek. There is a huge problem," said Mr Michel. "In recent months, many initiatives have already been taken in the fight against radicalisation but we also need more repression. We will work intensively with the local authorities," he said.

The prime minister admitted his government let extremism take hold in Molenbeek.

"It is true that there often was connection between terrorist attacks and Molenbeek. It was a form of laxity, to allow this. We are paying the bill for past laxity. For several years now, Belgium has been on alert for the phenomenon of fighters who go to fight in Syria and return to European soil in order to carry out attacks."

"In Molenbeek, the situation is not under control at the moment," admitted Jan Jambon, the interior minister, vowing to "clean up" the area.

The area's liberal mayor, Francoise Shepmans, denies there is a problem, admitting only to "certain integration difficulties".

"They do not all come here," she said. "And most of the time, they are only passing through."
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Seriously, plenty of people have been saying for years how neighbourhoods in Western-Europe with a dominant North-African population have been showing very few signs of genuine integration in Western society and all that happened was these people being called out for racists or 'exaggerating' the problem.
 
Mrs Smoker said:
Belgium: We lost control of Molenbeek
The Belgian government has admitted it has lost control of Molenbeek, the Brussels district at the centre of anti-terror raids yesterday in connection with the Paris attack, reports Matthew Holehouse in Molenbeek.

That five suspects were arrested there came as little surprise to residents - the little north African neighbourhood been linked to a series of plots in the past two years, including the Thalys train attacker who stayed with his sister in the area, the Vervier cell and Mehdi Nemmouche, who killed four in an attack on Belgium's Jewish museum last year.

Abdelmoumaim Haddad, who was sought by Belgian police in Spain on an international arrest warrant for terrorism charges in 2014, was also found in the district, as was Abdelkader Belliraj, a terrorist kingping jailed for life for arms smuggling and planning attacks in Morocco.

paris-belgium-mole_3501313b.jpg

Brussels' Molenbeek district where five people were arrested in connection with the Paris atrocities Photo: FP PHOTO/Emmanuel Dunand

Charles Michel, the Belgian prime minister, called for "repression" of extremists while his home secretary called for a "clean up" of the area, which with its discount clothes shops and kebab houses resembles London's Whitechapel.

"I see it is almost always related to Molenbeek. There is a huge problem," said Mr Michel. "In recent months, many initiatives have already been taken in the fight against radicalisation but we also need more repression. We will work intensively with the local authorities," he said.

The prime minister admitted his government let extremism take hold in Molenbeek.

"It is true that there often was connection between terrorist attacks and Molenbeek. It was a form of laxity, to allow this. We are paying the bill for past laxity. For several years now, Belgium has been on alert for the phenomenon of fighters who go to fight in Syria and return to European soil in order to carry out attacks."

"In Molenbeek, the situation is not under control at the moment," admitted Jan Jambon, the interior minister, vowing to "clean up" the area.

The area's liberal mayor, Francoise Shepmans, denies there is a problem, admitting only to "certain integration difficulties".

"They do not all come here," she said. "And most of the time, they are only passing through."
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could be every nation in western europe. each major capital has an enclave of "home grown" terror cells. meaning they were born in country but never had or will assimilate and become "french" or "dutch". so we can say , "look they're from france not (insert name of country) , conveniently settling our liberal souls and hoping for solidarity and some ribbons on trees until next time "home grown" terrorist strike. disconnected by politics or religion. as i've posted before , moms sisters brothers and uncles of these animals know what's kicking off and say nothing. welcome to extreme multiculturalism with bombs and assault weapons and goodbye to european culture. love curry hate bombs.
 
kouroux said:
Why does it have to take a horrible attack for authorities to truly wake up ? fecking hypocrites.
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Because nobody wants to stir the hornets nest - thats why. Full stop. Period.

The Rotherham Council scandal is a microcosm of whats happening elsewhere, people being terrified of being called racist if they even dare question the Emporer's new multiculturalism.

Any blowback from this post is all the evidence you'll need.
 
Fearless said:
Because nobody wants to stir the hornets nest - thats why. Full stop, Period.

The Rotherham Council scandal is a microcosm of whats happening elsewhere, people being terrified of being called racist if they even dare question the Emporer's new multiculturalism.

Any blowback from this post is all the evidence you'll need.
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It is truly depressing when political gain will take priority over important situation. Same situation in some french towns, I really hate politicians because all they do nowadays is show their emotions when tragedies happen and they cry for votes.
 
Fearless said:
Because nobody wants to stir the hornets nest - thats why. Full stop. Period.

The Rotherham Council scandal is a microcosm of whats happening elsewhere, people being terrified of being called racist if they even dare question the Emporer's new multiculturalism.

Any blowback from this post is all the evidence you'll need.
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that's why it's easier to say "look they're from here" so it must be a local problem. which is utter bullshit except it is happening locally.
 
They already killed over 100 people in Ankara, injuring hundreds more. That should have been the wake-up call to the west, as Ankara had never experienced anything like it before, not even at the hands of the PKK. It was a significant strike that got relatively little attention.

I guess we truly know now that they're not just hot air.
 
mu77 said:
that's why it's easier to say "look they're from here" so it must be a local problem. which is utter bullshit except it is happening locally.
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The big question is whose aiding and abetting the most??? The communities who harbour or worse breed this mantra or the politicians who don't want to be seen as Islamaphobic (whatever that stupid term means) for pointing it out.
 
Fearless said:
The big question is whose aiding and abetting the most??? The communities who harbour or worse breed this mantra or the politicians who don't want to be seen as Islamaphobic for pointing it out.
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yep them , the families of these tw4ts , politicians and the folks like you and me. not wanting to hurt someone's feelings or step on toes. then another bomb and another and another. i'm sure there will be some feeble attempt to , wait for it ................ bring up NI or the crusades. we know what's happening and we know what the score is.
 
mu77 said:
yep them , the families of these tw4ts , politicians and the folks like you and me. not wanting to hurt someone's feelings or step on toes. then another bomb and another and another. i'm sure there will be some feeble attempt to , wait for it ................ bring up NI or the crusades. we know what's happening and we know what the score is.
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Of course - we all do. It's just that there's a lot of useful idiots who can't handle the truth let alone deal with it.
 
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