Ousmane Dembele | Fee agreed with Dortmund, medical on Monday, Barca go from MSN to LSD
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Dont tell me there is no pressure at dortmund.
that's the thing though, when pursuing a player like that, United should be able to convince/offer all those things from play time, to time to develop, protection from media, how we are going to look after him, point at its history with youth, what it means to us, etc, PLUS far more money. You don't just go in and say "oh, we gonna need you to be the best in the world asap but we are going to pay you really well". these players shouldn't be opting to develop somewhere else, and we shouldn't be wanting them to develop somewhere else either.
Fergie would have been all over this I feel. If he chooses another club over us fine but I get the impression he isn't even on our radar which is something that really frustrates me about Mourinho.
I wonder how often that is what happens. I think almost every single transfer involves the club agreeing terms with the player first (through the agent, obviously).
Only 80,000 supporters every home match.
So frustrating. We need to start getting a handle on this and taking some top talent ourselves in the attacking areas. We've needed that spark and flair for around 9 years now.
There's pressure at every club, but nowhere near the pressure he'd get at United. More media coverage, more competition for places, more expectation, more wages, more scrutiny etc.
To put simple, here your good performance through the analysis of some pundits can be viewed as underwhelming... You can always perform at close to your best or you're overrated.
Not to add all the pressure from the fans/oppo fans etc. It's not an ideal scenario for all young players to develop. One of the drawbacks of being such a huge commercial juggernaut.
Nah, don't buy this personally. If Neymar's release clause had been €100m, Dortmund would be more than happy to accept that fee from Barcelona. It's a case of Dortmund knowing that Barcelona have the money and they want to fleece them for as much as they will pay. €100m is more than a fair price for Dembélé. Thing is he belongs to Dortmund and they think Barca's desperation will see them pay more, which is fair enough.
Also, Dortmund almost always replace their players with inferior players that's what a selling club does. It's their business model, another young promising player who they will go on to sell for Value.
Is Woodward in London to try and get him or is that just a coincidence?
Their business model isn't to sell key players after one season and even less in August. I'm still baffled by the fact that people still don't know that "selling clubs" don't sell for the sake of it, they plan the sales, since you don't replace players like that.
I was just jesting and iirc Woodward's office is in London.
That's a big if and of course it's realistic. If anything, why Neymar realease clause is 200mil when he just signed extension last season when Madrid tied their lesser players to crazy release clause.
Point keeps getting repeated here is there is an insurance fee involved when selling late in this market where replacing outgoing is difficult. Domino effect, everybody know Barcelona now have money, if a significant amount gets passed down to Dortmund, clubs would posture when Dortmund comes knocking. Dortmund ain't having as much pulling power as Barcelona so logically it's harder for them with they have even less time to arrange the deal. Normally clubs do thing little subtly to allow selling clubs to get replacement lined up. This is not the case.
Dembele was supposed Micky replacement. The groundwork was in the running way before the window opened last summer. If we were to get Micky before, then it's a different ball game for Dortmund to negotiate Dembbele deal in case they only started the first step there.
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I have heard foreign players say that their is a lot less scrutiny in England than there is elsewhere.
At Manchester United? I remember the absolute abuse De Gea got, was brutal. He'd make a few mistakes here and there and you'd think we signed a Sunday League keeper. You could see Pep starting to crack under the scrutiny last season too. They have a history of being brutal.
This summer was completely bonkers with regards to player prices to begin with and Neymar's purchase has exacerbated the situation.
I'm with Wenger in thinking that more and more players will refuse to renew contracts in the future and leave on a free, or for a lowish fee just the year before, due to their clubs' exorbitant demands otherwise. There will be some shifting of the risk to the player as picking up a serious injury near your contract expiry could mean you end up clubless and out of pay (see Ibra situation)
With regards to release clauses, I predict that in the future there will be pressure from player associations to become standardised by UEFA regulations and enforced upon all the football associations subject to UEFA with CAS being the enforcer.
For example recently we had the situation where Neymar had a release clause that the Spanish FA refused to take payment on. In France they are completely illegal and in England, while occasionally present, they are not enforceable (Henry's admission about Suarez clause being ignored). The current situation is an absolute mess, lets be honest, and players should rightfully require some clarification and certainty.
It'd be interesting to see if it plays out that way.
I'm with Wenger in thinking that more and more players will refuse to renew contracts in the future and leave on a free, or for a lowish fee just the year before, due to their clubs' exorbitant demands otherwise. There will be some shifting of the risk to the player as picking up a serious injury near your contract expiry could mean you end up clubless and out of pay (see Ibra situation)
With regards to release clauses, I predict that in the future there will be pressure from player associations to become standardised by UEFA regulations and enforced upon all the football associations subject to UEFA with CAS being the enforcer.
For example recently we had the situation where Neymar had a release clause that the Spanish FA refused to take payment on. In France they are completely illegal and in England, while occasionally present, they are not enforceable (Henry's admission about Suarez clause being ignored). The current situation is an absolute mess, lets be honest, and players should rightfully require some clarification and certainty.
It'd be interesting to see if it plays out that way.
That maybe so, and I'm not really disputing that. My argument is that the fee they are demanding has very little to do with the fact that we are in August but more to do with the fact that the whole football world knows Barcelona are have £200m available. Dortmund don't even shop in the end of the market which will see them spend even half of a €100m fee.
It's an entirely different scenario to, for example Leipzig who were clear from the outset that Keita is not for sale, they are talking of a fee not being enough, which means they have a fee in mind. Suggestive of a club which sees the perfect opportunity to take advantage of another's desperation.
What do you mean by 'plan the sales? ' Selling clubs sell when a situation presents good financial sense. Which means they almost always have replacements in mind before offers come in as the nature of football dictates that you be prepared for unexpected situations such as Neymar's release clause being met.
I remember reading an article on the Southampton D.O.F talking about knowing in advance/having a list of players who they would target in the event that any of their players left and even their manager. It helps no one for a club to be unprepared particular one that is not at the top of the food chain. I'm quite certain Watzke and Zorc have a pretty good idea who they would target to replace Dembélé.
@ti-vu
I think this argument applies to your reply.
If they don't shop then they're in risk for missing their onjective which in turn cost them plenty of money, in reward. Dortmund ain't a club that can generate as much money through mere image rights to overlook reward from European football.
Dortmund would want replacement in case Dembele is to leave & it's either through good plan or adding more money to offer another unrefuseable offer down for club down the food chain.
No. Dortmund doesn't have to anticipate for Neymar sale. As for Dembele, they know, keeping him for a year or two, they can get similar if not better fee, and that's when they have replacement lined up while meeting their objective for those couple years. Selling now while not getting replacement is risky of losing even more than what they get from so called 100mil.
What you wrote about Soton DOF in my intepretion is what I am talking about: plan to replace players with formal bids early on so having time to replace them efficiently, not close to new season start where the ones down the food chain would refuse to sell. Soton refused to sell Fonte last summer until they got ready by January window. They refused to sell Wanyama 2 season ago when they sold Schneiderlin to us, and only sold Wanyama last summer to Tottenham. Lovren sold when VVD was purchased. Shaw got sold when Bertrand deal was well planned ahead of time. Redmond with Mane sale...
Don't forget things are different for Soton than Dortmund. Soton objective is different & the TV money is easier to earn while Dortmund had to compete to earn their money. If Dortmund slipped, they're closer to a collapse the way Stuggart was than the like of Soton. Not long ago, Dortmund nearly went bankruptcy. The player Dortmund wants would logically be higher quality than Soton. In this particular case replacing Dembele you can't take slightly.
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You're one of those deluded kids that think Martial's a world beating talent ha? clueless bunch
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I still can't believe we didn't really go in for him. I watch 10-15 Ligue 1 games a year at most, and even I was posting about how we needed to overpay to sign him in April 2016, and then he goes for 15M.
Do we even have scouts for Ligue 1? In the last 10 years, we've signed Zlatan, Falcao and Obertan from there. I'm not saying we should have seen Mahrez when he was valued at 400K or whatever he went for, but players like Aubameyang, Kante and Dembele who were clearly the best players at their teams and young and still went for cheap are a little tougher to swallow. I guess we were in for Varane at least.
Do we even have scouts for Ligue 1? In the last 10 years, we've signed Zlatan, Falcao and Obertan from there. I'm not saying we should have seen Mahrez when he was valued at 400K or whatever he went for, but players like Aubameyang, Kante and Dembele who were clearly the best players at their teams and young and still went for cheap are a little tougher to swallow. I guess we were in for Varane at least.
Barca are still going to be amazing to watch. Just the pure technique on show with Dembele and Messi will be worth tuning in for.
Shame. Just the right winger we need.
Shame. Just the right winger we need.
We should buy Dembele and loan him back to Dortmund for one whole season. That would possibly be the best possible deal for Dortmund as that would give them the money and the player and also give them time to look for a possible replacement in the mean time. Barca can't match that sort of deal and I don't think Dembele is in any hurry to leave Dortmund either. Come one Ed... Make this happen.
I dont really know this player that much. Is he worth the price?
Its hard to say if a player is actually worth that much, but given this summer's prices he'd be a good buy for a big club in the 100m range.
Judging by the prices what top players went for last summer (aka Pogba) and this year Neymar, Lukaku and Morata, the prices will only increase and Dembele is a more productive CR7 at the same age. CR7's decision making was very poor at the age of 18/19 but he had the skills to dazzle and the flair to go past players easily. Dembele is the same sort of player but is a lot more mature when it comes to being productive. Now I'm not saying that he's the Next Cristiano Ronaldo but he's definitely got the potential to reach those high standards. Signing Dembele would send a signal of where we want to be this season and for godsake, we need a proper winger who can make a difference. Dembele easily would be our best winger if we signed him.
In the current market he's worth 80m and I'm sure all the top clubs want him but don't need him as much as Barca. They're desperate and have 220m to spend so of course Dortmund are going to pull their pants down. Wouldn't you?
Still wish he'd come here. He'll win the Ballon Dor in the next few years.
Still wish he'd come here. He'll win the Ballon Dor in the next few years.
Mourinho needs to get Agent Pogba working his magic...
As much as I want Woody to flash the cash and get hold of Dembele, I simply cannot see this happening even if we were to outbid Barca. There are too many variables involved other than money for this to happen.
75m pounds + bonus (winning the champions league) + bonus (balon do'or) + sell on bonus + a season long loan ??? Wouldn't that be quite a good deal for Dortmund to think about?
Isn't he a right winger? How will the Messi-Suarez-Dembele thing work? Suarez pushed to the left wing and Messi back to false nine?
Does the player even want to come to United? Doesn't sound like it so it ends there.
He can play on either wings but he does play on the right side for both Dortmund and France.
He is legitimately two footed, can play LW or RW but prefers the right. He is a playmaker and moves all over the attacking third to create scoring opportunities.
Ousmane, for me, is the next best attacking talent in world football after Neymar and is just 20 years old - truth is he's further ahead in his game than most world class attackers were at a similar age. This is a player who looks to be getting better & better
Practically every footballer wants to play in Spain with Barca or Real but that doesn't mean we stop trying to woo the best players in the world. Chelsea wouldn't have gotten Hazard if that was the case.
You could field a decent side with the number of RM players whose dream it was to play for Barcelona
Hard to guage worth these days with any sort of accuracy. We've signed Lukaku for 75 million. Dembele will go to be a far better player and has sort of talent only the elite players do.
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