Our Rivals Squad's next year - Liverpool 2015/2016

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Feed Me said:
:lol:

Great spot.

The delusion...
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The football fan's favourite word to describe fans of a club that they don't support. Trawl a few fan forums and it's the word that, apparently, encapsulates the mind set of a set of fans.

Fact is, we're all deluded. That's what fanaticism does to the brain...
 
PickledRed said:
The football fan's favourite word to describe fans of a club that they don't support. Trawl a few fan forums and it's the word that, apparently, encapsulates the mind set of a set of fans.

Fact us, we're all deluded. That's what fanaticism does to the brain...
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His comparison of our respective teams is absolutely embarrassing.

I'm not feeling totally confident of United's prospects this season, but our squad shits all over Liverpool's.
 
golden_blunder said:
It's not

You say Clyne better than darmian because of PL experience.

You then say Gomez will be better than the others because he looked good in the championship and friendlies.

Hypocrite.
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Those are two one-on-one comparisons. I don't have to use the exactly the same measurement to distinguish between players if there is /are another factor / factors more important, in my opinion.

In Darmian vs Clyne they are both quality players but one factor stands out.

So no it's not hypocrisy at all. It's called opinion and I hope this explanation has simplified it enough for your intellect to comprehend the difference.
 
Note to everyone.
I've edited the original comparison post above to clarify I was referring to Shaw vs. Gomez and not Shaw vs. Moreno
 
PickledRed said:
He's had a better two seasons than Mata. Mata has had far less moments of real quality in that period.
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How's he had two better seasons? Certainly not stats-wise. Certainly not results-wise. During the season when Liverpool won-the-title-but-didn't-actually-win it, he was probably your fifth, maybe sixth, best player.

Oh, I know, it's because he does stepovers and does 3.142 dribbles more per match than Mata.

Also, Mata's performance against your lot is better than anything Coutinho has put up. Literally, ever.
 
Rafateria said:
Romero = Mignolet ( I guess you are going to sign Cillesson - *spelling* - in which case he'd edge it. Ming was much better over the 2nd half of the season due to changes made in the way he treated specific situations, however most people remember the 1st half).
Darmian << Clyne (Darmian has it to prove in the PL, both are internationals).
Smalling = Skrtel
Rojo = Sakho (I believe Skho has a higher 'ceiling' if given a run in the team).
Shaw = I think Gomez is taking over that slot and if his PL performances are anything like in the friendlies and in the Championship last season, then he could be better).
Schweinsteiger > Lucas
Herrera = Henderson (totally different players, it would be hard to convince me either is better than the other since their individual talents are so disparate)
Schneid < Milner (I guess it's because Schneiderlin now plays for United he is being rated higher ;) though essentially totally different players again)
Mata < Coutinho (all day every day for me, the little magician. Always liked Mata but he far less consistent than Coutinho and can disappear completely from some matches)
Depay = Firmino (who knows)
Rooney = Sturridge/Benteke (I rate Rooney as a striker, however currently at Sturridge's level (when he's fit) ? Naaah. Benteke we'll have to see.
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I'll give you Clyne over Darmian, just. Yes Clyne is PL proven but he's also proven not to be top class. Darmian could go either way.

Schneiderlin has been second only to Matic for some time now. No revisionism there, unlike Coutinho being the marker of consistency all of a sudden ;)

When Sturridge can string together 11 seasons as good as his single standout year, and do it all without Luis Suarez occupying two defenders for him every game, then we'll talk about Rooney=Sturridge :)
 
11101 said:
I'll give you Clyne over Darmian, just. Yes Clyne is PL proven but he's also proven not to be top class. Darmian could go either way.

Schneiderlin has been second only to Matic for some time now. No revisionism there, unlike Coutinho being the marker of consistency all of a sudden ;)

When Sturridge can string together 11 seasons as good as his single standout year, and do it all without Luis Suarez occupying two defenders for him every game, then we'll talk about Rooney=Sturridge :)
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Schneiderlin : no argument there at all. I'd have loved us to sign him ! I was just saying that him vs. Milner is apples and oranges but that if I were to choose one it would be Milner.
Sturridge : everything unfortunately has to be prefaced with ' if he stays fit'. However we are not discussing '11 years' we're discussing 2015/16. I've always thought Rooney's best position was striker and United haven't always utilised him to best effect but I doubt he'll score less than 17-18 in the PL if he stays there throughout the season. Give me personally a choice between Rooney and a fully fit Sturridge and I'd take the later.
 
Can't we just agree that it's too early to compare Clyne and Darmian? Not a ball is kicked this season yet.. The fact that Clyne edges it for now because he's "Premier League proven" says it all really. Clyne is a very good RB, defensively as well as going forward, but the same can be said about Darmian (in the Serie A, admittedly). I'm a big fan of his and was gutted United signed him to be honest. He was always very good for Torino whenever I watched them (against Bruges and Roma last year), and even played as a right winger sometimes iirc. He might struggle to adapt to the PL but he might as well be an instant success for all we know. As for now, I'd consider them even but maybe give the advantage to Clyne indeed, just because you know what to expect from him.

Shaw is way better than Moreno. He was awful defensively last year. His first mistakes (against City in our second game for example) could be forgiven but not all the other ones. I really hope Gomez goes on to be a success at Liverpool (way too early to tell) or that we sign Digne from PSG (ideally, I'd want Rodriguez but that's out of the question, sadly). Shaw had a bad year but he's still young and speaking long term, he'll still be good for United imo.

I'd rathet compare Schweinsteiger to Can than to Lucas. He still edges it by a thousand miles but Can is 10 years younger and has potential so there's that. I also doubt that United will start a lot of games with both Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger. Speaking of which, Schneiderlin and Milner are completely different players so I don't get why they're being compared on here. Mata and Coutinho is a difficult one, I'd say Coutinho just because I like the fella but he'q still, still too inconsistent. Maybe he changes that this year and it'd be an easier choice but right now, it's more or less equal, certainly not a lot between them. I think Mata just needs a spot in the team in the same position for a while to show what he can do.

As for the forwards, Rooney is better than both Sturridge and Benteke but as a goal threat up front and a pure goal scorer, I'd rather have the Liverpool duo. Add to that that no one really knows where Rooney is going to play this year. Further on, I rate Firmino higher than Memphis but yet again, different players and both haven't played in the PL..

No matter how you compare the teams, I think United has a more talented squad than Liverpool although there's not very much in it, goalkeeper position being the only exception if De Gea stays and plays. All this doesn't really say much about where both teams will end up though, that's mainly down to the manager's approach, defensive shapes and cohesion of the team. A lot of teams have showed that quality or talent isn't the most important thing to have in your squad, so comparing player to player might be fun for the fans but it tells you nothing about the upcoming performances.
 
TooBias said:
How's he had two better seasons? Certainly not stats-wise. Certainly not results-wise. During the season when Liverpool won-the-title-but-didn't-actually-win it, he was probably your fifth, maybe sixth, best player.

Oh, I know, it's because he does stepovers and does 3.142 dribbles more per match than Mata.

Also, Mata's performance against your lot is better than anything Coutinho has put up. Literally, ever.
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The Mata against Liverpool comment is a tad strong. There are plenty of superb performances from Coutinho to speak of. Are they 'better' than Mata's v Liverpool? Impossible to argue that kind of equivalency, so I won't.

To be honest this debate has the whiff of piss measuring so I'm backing out.
 
Not sure why people try to have these debates with Liverpool fans (well most of them).

They always crop up on here and they always end the same way with them trying to come up with all sorts of convoluted, contradictory and often deranged reasons why they're better. Case in point: Rafateria above.

It's the classic outcome of the RAWK boom-bust cycle when bullishness peaks in the summer just before a ball is kicked - "We're pure fuchen sorted la" - Then unless we're being managed by Moyes we always finish a good bit ahead of them and often do the double over them too.

Then they're left bitter and confused talking about things like referees and net spend.
 
RobinLFC said:
in the goalkeeper position being the only exception if De Gea stays and plays.

All this doesn't really say much about where both teams will end up though, that's mainly down to the manager's approach, defensive shapes and cohesion of the team. A lot of teams have showed that quality or talent isn't the most important thing to have in your squad, so comparing player to player might be fun for the fans but it tells you nothing about the upcoming performances.
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Just seen Johnstone (sp. ?) may start for United ahead of Romero vs. Spurs. Looks like De Gea is nearly done.

Agree on that 2nd point Robin ..... or we'd never have come 2nd in 2013/14 !
 
Kraftwerker said:
Not sure why people try to have these debates with Liverpool fans (well most of them).

They always crop up on here and they always end the same way with them trying to come up with all sorts of convoluted, contradictory and often deranged reasons why they're better. Case in point: Rafateria above.

It's the classic outcome of the RAWK boom-bust cycle when bullishness peaks in the summer just before a ball is kicked - "We're pure fuchen sorted la" - Then unless we're being managed by Moyes we always finish a good bit ahead of them and often do the double over them too.

Then they're left bitter and confused talking about things like referees and net spend.
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"cant believe it, worst united team in years aswell"
 
Rafateria said:
Just seen Johnstone (sp. ?) may start for United ahead of Romero vs. Spurs. Looks like De Gea is nearly done.

Agree on that 2nd point Robin ..... or we'd never have come 2nd in 2013/14 !
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No, there is a very glaring and obvious reason he isn't playing which isn't an almost completed move to Madrid.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Was going to say the same but seems like everyone spotted it anyway
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Jeez. Talk about lemmings. Come on lads are you incapable of applying logic ? Or do you all wade in with your Size 14's because someone else has, without reading through the thread further or thinking it through ?
I'll summarise my clarifying post above : PL experience was what I used as the deciding factor between Darmian & Clyne. It's not what I used for every matchup where I deemed other factors more important.
It's not brain surgery but you'd think it was from the hysterical finger pointing.
 
AltiUn said:
No, there is a very glaring and obvious reason he isn't playing which isn't an almost completed move to Madrid.
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Really ? I thought from LvG's comments he was preparing the faithful for his departure. Why is he missing ?
 
Rafateria said:
Jeez. Talk about lemmings. Come on lads are you incapable of applying logic ? Or do you all wade in with your Size 14's because someone else has, without reading through the thread further or thinking it through ?
I'll summarise my clarifying post above : PL experience was what I used as the deciding factor between Darmian & Clyne. It's not what I used for every matchup where I deemed other factors more important.
It's not brain surgery but you'd think it was from the hysterical finger pointing.
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Don't worry. We know what you're doing.
 
picking Milner over Schneiderlin as Liverpool fan says it all. Schneiderlin is exactly what they lack, 4 years younger and one of the best EPL players in his role/position. I rate Milner and like him a lot, but he is a workhorse/squad player kind of player and Liverpool already has Henderson and Can in this mould and there is also Lallana. Liverpool getting Schneiderlin would have been potentially devastating, but getting Milner is really just a solid transfer.
Overall liverpool has a fairly unbalanced squad and that will cost them. Its nice to have Firminio, Benteke, Sturridge, Ibe, Lallana, Coutino, Ings, Origi (:lol:) and Markovic, but only 3 or 4 can play at the same time. If you play with Henderson + Milner in front of Skrtel + Lovren/Sakho you simply don´t finish in the top4.
Considering that Tottenham is doing an outstanding job at the moment I dont even see you lads as clear cut #5.
 
Rafateria said:
Those are two one-on-one comparisons. I don't have to use the exactly the same measurement to distinguish between players if there is /are another factor / factors more important, in my opinion.

In Darmian vs Clyne they are both quality players but one factor stands out.

So no it's not hypocrisy at all. It's called opinion and I hope this explanation has simplified it enough for your intellect to comprehend the difference.
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Well you do really. You say Clyne Is better than darmian, a full Italian international, because he has premier league experience.

So logic says that you cannot state that Gomez will be better than Moreno or shaw because as yet he doesn't have any premier league experience either!

How about you just admit you made a mistake, you made a hypocritical statement and move on?
 
Rafateria said:
Schneiderlin : no argument there at all. I'd have loved us to sign him ! I was just saying that him vs. Milner is apples and oranges but that if I were to choose one it would be Milner.
Sturridge : everything unfortunately has to be prefaced with ' if he stays fit'. However we are not discussing '11 years' we're discussing 2015/16. I've always thought Rooney's best position was striker and United haven't always utilised him to best effect but I doubt he'll score less than 17-18 in the PL if he stays there throughout the season. Give me personally a choice between Rooney and a fully fit Sturridge and I'd take the later.
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We'll have to agree to disagree then on Rooney v Sturridge. I don't think Sturridge will ever break 20 league goals again, whereas Rooney has done it every time he has played as striker.
 
How about
golden_blunder said:
Well you do really. You say Clyne Is better than darmian, a full Italian international, because he has premier league experience.

So logic says that you cannot state that Gomez will be better than Moreno or shaw because as yet he doesn't have any premier league experience either!

How about you just admit you made a mistake, you made a hypocritical statement and move on?
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How about you go back and read what I said about Gomez & Shaw in this thread rather than acting like a hysterical girl ?
 
Rafateria said:
How about

How about you go back and read what I said about Gomez & Shaw in this thread rather than acting like a hysterical girl ?
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How about you stop throwing insults around because you made a mistake?

Let's make it simple for you

Clyne in your opinion is better than darmian with the deciding factor being because of PL experience

Gomez in your opinion will be better, just because.

Apply the same logic
 
golden_blunder said:
How about you stop throwing insults around because you made a mistake?

Let's make it simple for you

Clyne in your opinion is better than darmian with the deciding factor being because of PL experience

Gomez in your opinion will be better, just because.

Apply the same logic
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It doesn't have to be hypocrisy though. PL experience could be a deciding factor if you're chosing between Clyne and Darmian (not saying it is), but it's not an issue if you compare Lucas and Schweinsteiger for example, just because the glaring difference in class and many other abilities is too obvious. So PL experience doesn't necessarily need to be included in a Shaw/Gomez debate if there would be many other factors in Gomez' favour. That said, I do think the initial statement was wrong and it is a deciding factor between the two of them (and the fact that Shaw is just a better player imo).
 
11101 said:
Inspired by the RAWK thread and their world class squad every August.



What do we think it really is? For me:

De Gea >>> Mignolet
Darmian = Clyne
Smalling = Skrtel
Rojo > Sakho
Shaw = Moreno
Schweinsteiger >>>>.......>>> Lucas
Herrera >> Henderson
Schneid > Milner
Mata = Coutinho
Depay = Firmino
Rooney >> Sturridge/Benteke
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De Gea > Mignolet
Darmian = Clyne
Smalling > Skrtel
Rojo < Sakho
Shaw > Moreno
Carrick\ Schweinsteiger > Lucas/Allen
Herrera > Henderson
Schneiderlin > Milner
Depay = Firmino
Mata < Coutinho
Rooney < Sturridge
 
Rafateria said:
1. Why am I thinking of anyone but Darmian ? Fact is historically most Italians have not performed well in the PL. There are some exceptions but not many so definitely the jury is out there and I'd take Clyne not only for being PL proven but for his pre-season performances where he slotted seemlessly into the team and is a notable upgrade on Johnson.

2. I should correct/clarify that Shaw/Moreno/Gomez line as you can see in a subsequent post I was not referring to Moreno with the = sign as I clearly state Shaw is far better than Moreno.

3. Coutinho rarely goes missing and it's unfair to point a finger at matches against the Top 4 - it's a team game and he can't be expected to be both provider and scorer when it should be remembered that last season there was literally no-one ahead of him making runs and we were virtually a strikerless team. His personal value and performances were rarely doubted though.
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If you are going by pre season darmian had a good one too. As for being better than Johnson that's not really a hard thing to be. Italians who came in the PL were either players like macheda who were too young to adapt and didn't have the experience or didn't have the talent itself. Most Italian fans see darmian as one of the best RBs of the serie A. It's not like maldini had come to the PL and struggled or something for us to be saying Italians don't adapt well. 10 years ago we would say Spanish players don't adapt but today Spanish players form core of every team.

I can see you are probably sick of the whole Moreno thing from your convo with others so I'm going to leave that

Coutinho is a good player but last season he was far from consistent. i talk about the top 4 because those are the games that matter. Sure he scored vs Blackburn in the FA Cup or against Southampton from 30 yards out but you need your best players to play well against the top opposition. i don't see how mata is any less consistent than coutinho at all. I would even argue more.
 
Liver_bird said:
De Gea > Mignolet
Darmian = Clyne
Smalling > Skrtel
Rojo < Sakho
Shaw > Moreno
Carrick\ Schweinsteiger > Lucas/Allen
Herrera > Henderson
Schneiderlin > Milner
Depay = Firmino
Mata < Coutinho
Rooney < Sturridge
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Darmian humiliated Clyne during Italy vs England and that despite the Italian side was made up of Chiellini, Buffon, Darmian, Bonucci and a group of random dudes. Also Rooney < Sturridge...Seriously?
 
RobinLFC said:
It doesn't have to be hypocrisy though. PL experience could be a deciding factor if you're chosing between Clyne and Darmian (not saying it is), but it's not an issue if you compare Lucas and Schweinsteiger for example, just because the glaring difference in class and many other abilities is too obvious. So PL experience doesn't necessarily need to be included in a Shaw/Gomez debate if there would be many other factors in Gomez' favour.
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Don't bother Robin you got it from the get-go whereas Golden Blunder has displayed a complete lack of intellect on this point because it doesn't suit his agenda to do so.
 
Rafateria said:
Romero = Mignolet ( I guess you are going to sign Cillesson - *spelling* - in which case he'd edge it. Ming was much better over the 2nd half of the season due to changes made in the way he treated specific situations, however most people remember the 1st half).
Darmian << Clyne (Darmian has it to prove in the PL, both are internationals).
Smalling = Skrtel
Rojo = Sakho (I believe Skho has a higher 'ceiling' if given a run in the team).
Shaw = I think Gomez is taking over that slot and if his PL performances are anything like in the friendlies and in the Championship last season, then he could be better).
Schweinsteiger > Lucas
Herrera = Henderson (totally different players, it would be hard to convince me either is better than the other since their individual talents are so disparate)
Schneid < Milner (I guess it's because Schneiderlin now plays for United he is being rated higher ;) though essentially totally different players again)
Mata < Coutinho (all day every day for me, the little magician. Always liked Mata but he far less consistent than Coutinho and can disappear completely from some matches)
Depay = Firmino (who knows)
Rooney = Sturridge/Benteke (I rate Rooney as a striker, however currently at Sturridge's level (when he's fit) ? Naaah. Benteke we'll have to see.
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Jesus christ, even I'm embarrassed for you.

Why are you comparing Shaw to Gomez? Shaw's a LB, so compare him to Enrique & Moreno, who had pretty bad seasons last year.

Milner > Morgan S? :lol: I think Milner is a very good player, and I'm glad to have him at Liverpool, but MS is one of the best defensive mids in the country, and a player who'd have improved our squad countless more times than Milner.

Herrera = Henderson? Sigh. Again, I think Hendo is a good player, but did you watch United at all last season? Herrera was ace - He's the kind of midfielder we need.

Cou > Mata... Cou is my favourite player, but to call Mata out for being inconsistent when he almost certainly had better stats than Cou last season is a bit harsh. Mata was their standout attacking player, while Coutinho was basically our only attacking player. Perhaps that what sways you somewhat. I wouldn't swap, however, as Cou is a bit younger, while Mata is at/near his peak. I'd put them somewhat even.

(I would take Sakho over Rojo, and do agree on Skrtel = Smalling on last seasons form, however I'd rather have Smalling due to his age).
 
devilish said:
Darmian humiliated Clyne during Italy vs England and that despite the Italian side was made up of Chiellini, Buffon, Darmian, Bonucci and a group of random dudes. Also Rooney < Sturridge...Seriously?
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Haven't seen a lot of Darmian just heard positive reviews, whilst Clyne has been consistently a top RB in the league over the past few years, not exactly as far fetched as you make it sound and basing a judgement on an individual game is ludicrous.

Rooney was a better player but a fit and on form Sturridge ( which is a rarity mind you)
 
Liver_bird said:
Haven't seen a lot of Darmian just heard positive reviews, whilst Clyne has been consistently a top RB in the league over the past few years, not exactly as far fetched as you make it sound and basing a judgement on an individual game is ludicrous.

Rooney was a better player but a fit and on form Sturridge ( which is a rarity mind you)
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Just go and watch the game. Darmian terrorised the left flank throughout the entire game causing Clyne all sort of problems. He's been one of the best wing backs in the Serie A for quite some time and had been one of the top Italian performers during the WC.
 
Liver_bird said:
De Gea > Mignolet
Darmian = Clyne
Smalling > Skrtel
Rojo < Sakho
Shaw > Moreno
Carrick\ Schweinsteiger > Lucas/Allen
Herrera > Henderson
Schneiderlin > Milner
Depay = Firmino
Mata < Coutinho
Rooney < Sturridge
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Can't get any fairer from a Liverpool fans perspective. I agree on all of them, though I do think Memphis and Darmian will prove to be better players than their respective counterparts.
 
I don't think Clyne is on Darmian's level, there is a reason United chose the Italian.
 
golden_blunder said:
Anyone spot the hypocrisy?
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I think it's possible to be wrong or illogical without being hypocritical, which I think implies it's deliberate. Just a thought.

Anyway ...

De Gea < Mignolet
Darmian < Clyne
Smalling < Skrtel
Rojo < Sakho
Shaw < Moreno
Schweinsteiger < Lucas
Herrera < Henderson
Schneiderlin < Milner
Depay < Firmino
Mata < Coutinho
Rooney < Benteke

Because they play for Liverpool and that's the only criteria I care about. However, I must admit if I was a Man Utd supporter, I'd be delighted to have Schweinsteiger and Mata in my side. They're both wonderful footballers.

From the LFC perspective, I only wish I could be sure Sakho was going to get in the team. I think he's our best defender but apparently the manager has different ideas. I'm not hugely impressed with van Gaal but I would struggle to say Louis van Gaal < Brendan Rodgers.
 
Right opposing fans, tomorrow you will see Liverpool without your favourite saviour. No Stevie Gerrard in midfield. I've been waiting a whole calendar year for this. Come on Redmen!! :D

Edit: Come on Rodgers!!
 
Expecting/hoping for Benteke to hit the ground running. Still very happy with his signing :)
 
De Gea > Mignolet
Darmian > Clyne
Smalling > Skrtel
Rojo < Sakho
Shaw > Moreno
Schweinsteiger > Lucas
Herrera > Henderson
Schneiderlin > Milner
Depay = Firmino
Mata = Coutinho
Rooney = Sturridge
 
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