Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?

[sparx99]

It’s telling how much better our form was when Bailly was playing. He snuffed out so many chances and let us play higher up the pitch.

It’s time for Henderson as well. De Gea started the season decently but he’s not playing better than Henderson has so he should be dropped.

 

[#07]

It’s telling how much better our form was when Bailly was playing. He snuffed out so many chances and let us play higher up the pitch.

It’s time for Henderson as well. De Gea started the season decently but he’s not playing better than Henderson has so he should be dropped.

100%. Also, in what world does Bailly get physically dominated by Diagne? Bailly would bounce him off. I don't see the medical reports at Man Utd but it seems suicidal to continue playing Lindelof and Maguire.

 

[Mike Oxard]

Maybe we can give fit again Phil Jones a go alongside maguire? Worth a shout surely?

Definitely not.

I agree entirely. He has his detractors, but he is head and shoulders above what we have when it comes to heart and fight. Jones is a warrior.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Also wish to add that wba had 12 days to rest and train for our game when we in the same time had 2 games and this our 3rd. It's got to be Lindelof or Maguire as you

I agree entirely. He has his detractors, but he is head and shoulders above what we have when it comes to heart and fight. Jones is a warrior.

And this is why smoking drugs is bad for your braincells, your thoughts are not consistent with reality and you have warped thoughts

The actual reason for my posting is to say that Lindelof is the Adnan Januzaj of defenders.

 

[elmo]

Shaw is back to his best, AWB is an improvement and getting better in attack.

Lindelof is an improvement over Jones and Rojo.

Maguire is available to play every match.

Our CBS don’t work well together, but which one goes depends on who would come in.

The last two matches Maguire has collapsed like an IKEA bookshelf trying to buy a foul and both times he didn’t get the call. I can take Lindelof’s frailties over that garbage.

That's a low bar to clear considering the both of them are almost never available for us.

He's still a shit defender who shouldn't even be starting for us.

 

[Stacks]

Last year people were telling us we had a defence you could build a title race on because we conceded 3rd least goals in the league. Sometimes you got to see the woods for the trees. Our defence wasn't that solid and didn't allow us to attack full on. We saw warning signs last season that we could get exposed whilst the likes of Sevilla grabbed 2 easy goals to knock us out with basic moves and Chelsea smashed us on the FA semi final. It looked unreliable. From day one this season the chickens have come home to roost. It is clear we need to upgrade our defence and it will continue to let us down. We have one very good player in his position and the rest are good/decent/ok-ish. I doubt any attacker fears playing against our defenders bar maybe Wan Bissaka (if you a dribbler).

 

[Mike Oxard]

Also wish to add that wba had 12 days to rest and train for our game when we in the same time had 2 games and this our 3rd. It's got to be Lindelof or Maguire as you


And this is why smoking drugs is bad for your braincells, your thoughts are not consistent with reality and you have warped thoughts

The actual reason for my posting is to say that Lindelof is the Adnan Januzaj of defenders.

I’d also say that Maguire is the Tom Cleverley of defenders. Give me Jones over either of these two frauds any day. At least with Jones, expectations are low and he gives 100% every game.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Last year people were telling us we had a defence you could build a title race on because we conceded 3rd least goals in the league. Sometimes you got to see the woods for the trees. Our defence wasn't that solid and didn't allow us to attack full on. We saw warning signs last season that we could get exposed whilst the likes of Sevilla grabbed 2 easy goals to knock us out with basic moves and Chelsea smashed us on the FA semi final. It looked unreliable. From day one this season the chickens have come home to roost. It is clear we need to upgrade our defence and it will continue to let us down. We have one very good player in his position and the rest are good/decent/ok-ish. I doubt any attacker fears playing against our defenders bar maybe Wan Bissaka (if you a dribbler).

100%

 

[Bobski]

Shaw is back to his best, AWB is an improvement and getting better in attack.

Lindelof is an improvement over Jones and Rojo.

Maguire is available to play every match.

Our CBS don’t work well together, but which one goes depends on who would come in.

The last two matches Maguire has collapsed like an IKEA bookshelf trying to buy a foul and both times he didn’t get the call. I can take Lindelof’s frailties over that garbage.

A fit Jones before the constant cycle of injuries ruined him was levels above Lindelof.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

A fit Jones before the constant cycle of injuries ruined him was levels above Lindelof.

This needs repeating.

Lindelof doesn’t tie shoelaces for our mack up CBs of yesteryear.

Phil Jones was one hell of a talent let’s not forget.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

This needs repeating.

Lindelof doesn’t tie shoelaces for our mack up CBs of yesteryear.

Phil Jones was one hell of a talent let’s not forget.

Pre-injuries Jones in 11-12 was far better than all of our current centre back options. He also could do a job at right back & in defensive midfield. I remember him bossing the midfield at the Bernabeu.

It beggars belief that Maguire, Lindelof & Wan-Bissaka cost a combined £150m. Roughly the same amount was spent on City’s 3 equivalent players & the difference is night & day. Unbelievably poor recruitment by us.

 

[davidmichael]

De Gea has regressed again for the third season in a row to the point he’s probably not even in the top five keepers in the league, AWB has no alternative so is coasting, Lindelof is still weak and awful in the air whilst horribly slow, Bailly has a mad moment in him every few games or is injured, Maguire is horrifically slow, Tuanzebe seems to not be trusted being given a run of games at centre back and Jones is Jones so I’d say NO our defence isn’t fixed.

Shaw and Telles is our only saving grace in defence as Telles coming in has lit a fire under Shaw to the point Shaw is probably our best player this season after Fernandes but that’s the only positive I can actually find.

We’ve spent £30+ million on Lindelof, £30+ million on Bailly, £80 million on Maguire and £50 million on AWB in recent seasons and we’re still a quality centre back with pace, an alternative right back and possibly a keeper if we’re not going to give Henderson a run to see if he’s the answer away from fixing our defence and even then we still need a pure out and out defensive midfielder because we can’t play Fernandes and Pogba in the same team against bigger teams with Matic as our only defensive midfielder and neither McTominay or Fred are that type of player either.

 

[FrankDrebin]

We have the makings of a really good squad if we can finally sort out the 3/4 key positions in our first 11, easily said than done though obviously.

 

[United in sin]

AWB and Luke Shaw are the only players who come out with any credit in that back line thus far for me. Our central defensive pairing is a shambles and its spoken about to death. While DDG has saved us on a few occasions its his costly mistakes that will always be topic of discussion. He has a lot of making up to do to totally win confidence in him back and he also has to contend with Henderson breathing down his back.

The jury is still out on Telles for me. His crossing ability is probably the best in our squad but they're still question marks over his positioning and overall defensive contributions, especially against tougher opposition. Shaw should never be doubted but the competition from Telles has really brought the best out of him, almost like Williams did in a similar fashion last season. I hope we go out and get a top CB next summer. I don't like the idea of shopping for someone to neutralize Maguire's weaknesses, we need to sign a top CB period who fits this clubs needs and possesses an array of attributes suited for the role. Maguire has never been a top CB or a leader for me and the transfer fee we paid will never change that perception

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Our defense will never be fixed as long as De Gea is in goal standing on his line waiting for our defenders to win 100% of the balls played into his 6 yard box...

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

A fit Jones before the constant cycle of injuries ruined him was levels above Lindelof.

The only fit Jones I remember was when he still played for Blackburn. Even a half-crocked Jones is better than our current options.

 

[Murray3007]

problem is ole wont change it, De Gea is now on his 3rd season of massive decline, gave him this crazy contract that means he will always be number 1. is Henderson much better we don't no but surely he deserves a chance till the end of the season. Maguire signed for a massive fee and is again undroppable because of it, lets be honest he is no better then a Keane from Everton and what did he cost £25m? Lindelof for me is always just a disaster of a CB, a mean a CB who cant header the ball ? like come on eh, and the ultimate insult to the club, the other players in the squad and to the fans is no matter what they still play and its a common theme in the squad, piss poor players not performing for months at a time and yet he still plays them. when he ultimately gets sacked he will only have himself to blame for not changing the crap out the team

 

[passing-wind]

There's also an element of management and a lack of tactical versatility. Last season we defended well when the impetus was on the team to absorb pressure and pull a counter. This season it's clearly been less effective and with having to play on the front foot more often via a higher line, the defence has been exposed with Maguire / partner causing issues.

We seem unable to defend unless the team is told to resemble the same approach Jose got criticism for. So even with a new defender can the coaches get the balance right is the question.

 

[Adnan]

 

[Red_toad]

Yeah but he’s never going to slate the tactics nor coaching ability. He’s very limited on what he can say & just blaming the players isn’t addressing the whole issue.

 

[#07]

 

[NinjaZombie]

Came in here to post this. Ole needs to change something if we're going to win titles again.

 

[MU655]

This rounds it up pretty nicely. Even though people talk about signing new midfielders, it will make no difference if they have to continue to babysit our centre backs.

Despite playing two defensive midfielders in front of them, we continue to concede loads of goals.

Lindelof and Maguire are an awful partnership. Maguire has the turning speed on an oil tanker and struggles with recovery. Lindelof lacks in strength and speed (but not so much as Maguire). Both equally tend to mess up; I don't think one is better than the other in this aspect. Both of them are too unreliable.

 

[Saddy]

The stats are not accurate in that Neville clip - more like 1.3 goals conceded per match that's on target to concede nearly 50 goals in the premier league season. I suspect this may well end up around 40 but it's probably 10-15 more than most teams concede when they win the league and this would be the set piece goals/mistakes our defence are making.

Chelsea hold the record at 15 for the season 04/05.

Because we are starting to misfire upfront this could cost us top 4 if we don't sort this out.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Pre-injuries Jones in 11-12 was far better than all of our current centre back options. He also could do a job at right back & in defensive midfield. I remember him bossing the midfield at the Bernabeu.

It beggars belief that Maguire, Lindelof & Wan-Bissaka cost a combined £150m. Roughly the same amount was spent on City’s 3 equivalent players & the difference is night & day. Unbelievably poor recruitment by us.

If it's the same game I'm thinking of he man marked Ronaldo out of the game. Colossus performance.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

I think the problem we have now is that we've paid something like £200m for Wan-Bissaka, Bailly, Lindelof and Maguire and all are good players but probably unlikely to be trophy winners. I don't think replacing Lindelof turns us into contenders because we still have to deal with Maguire's flaws, and vice versa.

 

[Foxbatt]

Neville is saying that Lindelof is a good player but not with Maguire. I think the biggest mistake we made was pay so much for Maguire. So now we have to play him. Ole should start playing Lindelof and Bailly. But also Degea is another problem. I think Lindelof with a good keeper who comes out at does not stand on his line would be a much better player.

 

[roonster09]

Neville is saying that Lindelof is a good player but not with Maguire. I think the biggest mistake we made was pay so much for Maguire. So now we have to play him. Ole should start playing Lindelof and Bailly. But also Degea is another problem. I think Lindelof with a good keeper who comes out at does not stand on his line would be a much better player.

You can play prime Vidic next to Lindelof, still he won't be a better player. He lacks aggression, weak physically and easily bullied.

 

[Foxbatt]

You can play prime Vidic next to Lindelof, still he won't be a better player. He lacks aggression, weak physically and easily bullied.

Neither was Ronald Koeman but paired with Rijkard he was one of the best. CBs play as pairs. That is why when he has played with other players he looked better.

 

[roonster09]

Neither was Ronald Koeman but paired with Rijkard he was one of the best. CBs play as pairs. That is why when he has played with other players he looked better.

When did he look better? He played alongside Smalling and he looked as poor as he is today.

Yes, CB plays as pairs, that doesn't mean every CB will look good with better player next to them.

 

[Foxbatt]

When did he look better? He played alongside Smalling and he looked as poor as he is today.

Yes, CB plays as pairs, that doesn't mean every CB will look good with better player next to them.

smalling looked poor alongside him too. He has his weakness but it is made more because of Maguire and DeGea.

 

[roonster09]

smalling looked poor alongside him too. He has his weakness but it is made more because of Maguire and DeGea.

Yeah but Smalling looked very good next to Blind and with players like Vidic. So maybe it's Lindelof who is the problem.

 

[Mickson]

The Athletic have analyzed our defense and - surprise, surprise - it's based on... individual performances and individual choices. God, we don't even have a football coach, do we?

At a time where top sides defend more as a collective, working to constrict and manipulate space, United’s approach to defending set pieces — and defending as a whole — asks players to make a higher number of individual decisions. Without the safety blanket of the offside trap, they risk being punished more on the defensive end when mistakes occur.

https://theathletic.com/2388817/2021/02/16/manchester-united-punished-set-pieces-why/

 

[dinostar77]

Lets hope the incoming CB this summer is the missing link.

However agree the coaching is probably lacking as well.

 

[Siviz]

When did he look better? He played alongside Smalling and he looked as poor as he is today.

Yes, CB plays as pairs, that doesn't mean every CB will look good with better player next to them.

When playing for Sweden, which is a bit counterintuitive considering he's up until recently been paired with Andreas Granqvist - a defender very similar to Maguire (strong in the air, slow as molasses).

 

[A-man]

The Athletic have analyzed our defense and - surprise, surprise - it's based on... individual performances and individual choices. God, we don't even have a football coach, do we?

“At a time where top sides defend more as a collective, working to constrict and manipulate space, United’s approach to defending set pieces — and defending as a whole — asks players to make a higher number of individual decisions. Without the safety blanket of the offside trap, they risk being punished more on the defensive end when mistakes occur.”

https://theathletic.com/2388817/2021/02/16/manchester-united-punished-set-pieces-why/

This is exactly what has happened. We don’t defend as a unit but individually 1v1. It was very obvious in our two last matches.

One difference if we look at skills of a CB today compared to one in the past is the ability to work with others on a unit is more important, or at least this is more valued now. This was, as an example, my personal biggest question mark for Upamecano as I feel the Leipzig defence is formed by a bunch of individuals. .

 

[A-man]

I would say the season started awful with 11 goals conceded in the first 3 games. After that we sorted out the defence to a decent level, went to the top in the PL and played well. The 3-3 draw was Everton was step backwards, but before that the defence has been pretty good.

 

[A-man]

When playing for Sweden, which is a bit counterintuitive considering he's up until recently been paired with Andreas Granqvist - a defender very similar to Maguire (strong in the air, slow as molasses).

He has a little different role for Sweden where is a little bit of a play maker plus the one who organises the team.

 

[Smores]

For the money Ole has spent on the defence it should be sorted really. I think we also fecked up offloading Smalling to be honest.

We've won titles with worse CBs than Lindelof and Smalling. It's incredible that we managed to spaff so much money on a new CB to then realise they're not a good fit.

 

[dinostar77]

For the money Ole has spent on the defence it should be sorted really. I think we also fecked up offloading Smalling to be honest.

We've won titles with worse CBs than Lindelof and Smalling. It's incredible that we managed to spaff so much money on a new CB to then realise they're not a good fit.

£80mil on maguire still seems crazy. Should have added a few more millions and got koubailly from Napoli.