I'm honestly growing into the thought process that we have the worst defence in the top 6.
Well based on goals conceded, it certainly seems that way.
Well based on goals conceded, it certainly seems that way.
Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?
- Thread starter Untd55
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Together they are dire. Maguire looks a interrelated with Bailly alongside him.
They just don't work as a pairing.
They just don't work as a pairing.
Keep saying it, but Maguire is a big, big problem for us. Ole has, for some reason, decided that he is our main man. He gave him the captaincy, he starts every game and he will not be dropped despite the fact that he's clearly not good enough. The only thing that will change all that is when a new manager comes in and decides he doesn't like him. But even then it's going to be a huge call due to his fee and captaincy.
We got ourselves into a situation here, fair play.
We got ourselves into a situation here, fair play.
Smalling between 15-18 is still the best defender we have had in the post Fergie years, as ugly as his game may have been.
He signed him for a WR fee for a defender. Ole has tied his fate to Harry Maguire's - unless they both come good, unfortunately for Ole his managerial career might be defined as the guy who made Harry Maguire the most expensive defender of all time.
Yeah, unfortunately, I can't see that happening for either of them. Ultimately, I think they're both going to "fail" I think Ole has done a good job at United in the main, but can't see him taking us to where we need to be. As for Maguire...I just really don't rate him at all. Nowhere near good enough.
Didn't make sense at the time, makes even less sense now. The myth of being crap on the ball killed him before he got a fair chance.
He was very limited on the ball, but I think we got to a place in modern football where huge value has been placed on a CB being good on the ball, when ultimately they still need to be a good defender first. I think he has dropped a level physically in the last 2 years, struggles when playing 3 games a week, so maybe it was the right time to move on.
Selling a defender due to his limited ball playing skills make no sense to me when we brought a RB who is limited on the ball for £50m
Shaw is excellent crosser
True, especially considering the importance of full backs to the attacking game, for me far more crucial than that extra ball playing ability at CB
AWB still has room to develop, occasionally he flashes improvements in that area, but we could absolutely do with an alternative option, the non crocked Rafael to Brown balance.
He had improved as of late but his assist rate is shocking.
Lindelof is worse than 3 of Everton's CB options and Godfrey has more potential so he will probably end up the 4th that is better.
Even with Cavani in the middle instead of Martial we arent very good converting from a cross on the left. Cavani has missed several balls coming across too
No
Shaw is one of europes on form left backs and then you've got two hugely expensive signings in AWB and Maguire. We shouldn't be defensively suspect, especially playing two defensively sound midfielders in front.
I think we desperately need a new coach who can sort out the defence and help Ole. You'd think a few of his mates would be interested.
I think we desperately need a new coach who can sort out the defence and help Ole. You'd think a few of his mates would be interested.
130m on maguire and awb
i genuinely feel one solid center back signing, to replace Victor, a player who has pace and passion and strength Would fix it. the weak link in the team is that Centre back pairing of Harry and Victor. It has to be number one priority in summer Even over RW.
I feel sorry for whatever CB we sign in the summer, amyone expecting one man to revolutionise that back line is in for a surprise.
At this point only Shaw should be comfortably assured of his place going forward. Perhaps AWB.
At this point only Shaw should be comfortably assured of his place going forward. Perhaps AWB.
Lindelof being piss in the air is a given but was Shaw bad? i didn't really notice but Shaw is usually very good in the air. He rarely gets beaten because he has a good leap, is strong (broad shoulders/upper body strength) and good positioning. Even if he doesn't win the header directly, the attacker rarely gets good enough contact.
We need new Cbs even though our 3 cbs cost approximately 150 millions.
No, he wasn't. People said the same about Bailly & Pogba too and now they're class again after a couple of good performances. The rating of our players here changes daily which is absurd. Even though Rojo was not a world beater, he was good enough to be a squad player here. For one thing, he never got bullied by opposition attackers like Lindelöf does constantly. He had quite good periods with us Lindelöf never reached. The only reason we have Lindelöf & Maguire as our main CBs is they're the most recent CB signings and not because of their quality. And we changed our CBs with worse players while spending a fortune.
Shaw isn't bad in the air but these sort of teams tend to take it to their next level. Thus why Maguire needed to remain at the back.
We lack top quality crossers. Shaw and AWB had improved on that front but they are hardly among the top crossers of the ball. Rashy and Martial are inside strikers.
Both Rashford and Shaw are great at crossing.
Again, our striker has not made contact with a cross that he could have done. So how is that their fault?
This season he has been superb. He has 5 assists and should have had more with better finishing as he created more key chances. He is one of, if not the best LB this season.
Rojo was constantly, constantly injured.
And then on the super rare occasions he was fit to play he was shite.
Shaw, along with Maguire are arguably our best players dealing with aerial balls
I'd give you AWB and Lindelof being weak.
Crazy if you think about it. I mean we just fling numbers about, but imagine spending 130.000.000 pounds to improve your defence only for it to be worse. This time last year we had conceded 29 goals, right now we are at 31.
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1 major top class CB signing and then someone in the mould of Dunk.
Just getting tired of Lindelof messing up the basics with Baily constantly on the treatment table.
Just getting tired of Lindelof messing up the basics with Baily constantly on the treatment table.
Shit their pants every time West fecking Brom attacked.
Have to buy a quick, strong center back to replace Lindelof. We look better when Bailly plays but he rarely does.
As crap as our defending is, we still concede one goal to West fukking Brom and have conceded few goals to top six clubs, Spurs being the outlier.
We do need a new CB to partner with Maguire, but the real hole in the squad is at RW. Greenwood gives it his best, but he looks more a CF than a RW and now that the Martial experiment ended a miserable failure and we know Cavani can’t be our go to 9 for an entire season, we need to move Greenwood to 9 and give Diallo his shot this season. If he proves he’s got something, fantastic. But if not, go back to Sancho (we’re never getting Haasland) To fill the hole the Glazers have failed to address since Ronaldo left us a decade ago.
If Bailly can give us three months, we’d still want to find a fifth CB behind Lindelof and Tuanzebe. But if he can’t, then we‘ll need to spend a huge sum for a CB. But the lack of anything on the RW is killing us match after match.
We do need a new CB to partner with Maguire, but the real hole in the squad is at RW. Greenwood gives it his best, but he looks more a CF than a RW and now that the Martial experiment ended a miserable failure and we know Cavani can’t be our go to 9 for an entire season, we need to move Greenwood to 9 and give Diallo his shot this season. If he proves he’s got something, fantastic. But if not, go back to Sancho (we’re never getting Haasland) To fill the hole the Glazers have failed to address since Ronaldo left us a decade ago.
If Bailly can give us three months, we’d still want to find a fifth CB behind Lindelof and Tuanzebe. But if he can’t, then we‘ll need to spend a huge sum for a CB. But the lack of anything on the RW is killing us match after match.
I think the only way Ole will do something about the defence is if someone put 4-5 goals passed us without it being a goalie cock up. We are going to be discussing this over and over again as it stands. He nailed his colours to the mast with spunking £130 mill on Maguire and AWB, making one world record signing. Yet neither have improved the defence any more than under Mourinho. He cant drop Maguire as it will show his incompetancy up. This will be his Achilles heel. If he is still manager next season and Im afraid he will be, Ole will need to spend big again on a CD to play with Maguire and an attacking RB/RWB.
We need Bailly back in soon as possible and just hope he stays fit for the remainder.
For the summer we have to sign someone with Bailly qualities but is not made of glass. With the transfer rumours I think Ole and the staff know they've made some mistakes, they will try for a new partner for Maguire and get in an alternative right back. I don't think any new right back will light a fire under AWB's arse though, this is what we bought so I expect him to takeover.
De Gea made a great save to help out Maguire at West Brom but overall his style invites pressure. I'd be in favour of giving Hendo more games, especially against bottom of the league teams which really exploit Maguire and De Gea's weaknesses. It's one thing having trouble breaking them down but in recent years we give them too many goals starts, we're so shit on corners and one v one. They don't even need a wealth of chances.
For the summer we have to sign someone with Bailly qualities but is not made of glass. With the transfer rumours I think Ole and the staff know they've made some mistakes, they will try for a new partner for Maguire and get in an alternative right back. I don't think any new right back will light a fire under AWB's arse though, this is what we bought so I expect him to takeover.
De Gea made a great save to help out Maguire at West Brom but overall his style invites pressure. I'd be in favour of giving Hendo more games, especially against bottom of the league teams which really exploit Maguire and De Gea's weaknesses. It's one thing having trouble breaking them down but in recent years we give them too many goals starts, we're so shit on corners and one v one. They don't even need a wealth of chances.
Maybe we can give fit again Phil Jones a go alongside maguire? Worth a shout surely?
Definitely not.
Definitely not.
No I think a Central defender is high priority this summer. They'll be working on a player that compliments Maguire's style so he wont have to save face by dropping his club captain.
I think you're harsh on AWB too, he's had some great defensive games for United and he's an improvement on what we had there prior to him joining. He's not great going forward but I think that's highlighted even more because we don't have a right winger doing that job either. Neville wasn't exactly prime Cafu getting forward but he did the defensive stuff behind Beckham and they worked well as a pair. reduce the attacking onus on AWB and he'll look a better player by default.
Shaw is back to his best, AWB is an improvement and getting better in attack.
Lindelof is an improvement over Jones and Rojo.
Maguire is available to play every match.
Our CBS don’t work well together, but which one goes depends on who would come in.
The last two matches Maguire has collapsed like an IKEA bookshelf trying to buy a foul and both times he didn’t get the call. I can take Lindelof’s frailties over that garbage.
Lindelof is an improvement over Jones and Rojo.
Maguire is available to play every match.
Our CBS don’t work well together, but which one goes depends on who would come in.
The last two matches Maguire has collapsed like an IKEA bookshelf trying to buy a foul and both times he didn’t get the call. I can take Lindelof’s frailties over that garbage.
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The defence is just a bad mix at the moment. Its not that individually they're bad players, its just that they manage to all exacerbates each other's weaknesses.
* Among the centre backs we have two right footers, meaning Maguire is almost always playing on the wrong side, which limits his ability to pass.
* Our worst passer of the ball, AWB, plays on the side with no true right winger, meaning he's the one with the hardest pass through the press.
* One of our CBs and our goalkeeper are poor at crosses, meaning anything into the box is dangerous eg West Brom's goal yesterday.
* Both our main centre backs are slow and our goalkeeper is slow to come off his line to deal with things, which means a high line is always dangerous. See how easily West Brom got in against us when we were chasing the win.
I don't think its that hard to solve though. We need a keeper who can come out quickly and can also take balls from the air. Then we need a pacy CB who can let us keep a higher line. We need a right winger anyway, and having someone who can form a partnership with AWB over an entire season would make it easier for him to pass his way through a press.
At that point I think we have a much more natural unit to work with. While I don't think Ole is particularly outstanding at coaching a defense, at least he's left with a good foundation for it.
* Among the centre backs we have two right footers, meaning Maguire is almost always playing on the wrong side, which limits his ability to pass.
* Our worst passer of the ball, AWB, plays on the side with no true right winger, meaning he's the one with the hardest pass through the press.
* One of our CBs and our goalkeeper are poor at crosses, meaning anything into the box is dangerous eg West Brom's goal yesterday.
* Both our main centre backs are slow and our goalkeeper is slow to come off his line to deal with things, which means a high line is always dangerous. See how easily West Brom got in against us when we were chasing the win.
I don't think its that hard to solve though. We need a keeper who can come out quickly and can also take balls from the air. Then we need a pacy CB who can let us keep a higher line. We need a right winger anyway, and having someone who can form a partnership with AWB over an entire season would make it easier for him to pass his way through a press.
At that point I think we have a much more natural unit to work with. While I don't think Ole is particularly outstanding at coaching a defense, at least he's left with a good foundation for it.