Onana has not worked out. We need a new keeper.

[Wumminator]

Yeah, and the numbers are showing why. Our defense is literally letting people have an open shot at goal multiple times every game. We’re defending worse than relegation candidates. Let that sink in.

Where are these stats from? Certainly feels to me more like he lets in the first shot on target consistently.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

As much as I wanted a keeper who can pass, his standard of “shot stopping” is absolutely unacceptable. Making absolute basic errors you’d expect to see in the lower leagues. Don’t we have a number 2 who can come in to stabilise things? I’m all for allowing some leeway but it’s become farcical at this point.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Signing Onana was a bit of a “cart before the horse” type of signing, but it was forced by De Gea’s collapse. We need to be an effective possession team to get the best out of his attributes, but we’re still miles off from that.

The makeshift defense obviously hasn’t helped but at the same time, he’s been much worse than advertised with the ball at his feet. He’s certainly got something, but he doesn’t show it near often enough. The little show of having a centerback touch the ball off to him on goal kicks so he can either put us under pressure or boot it long anyway does my head in.

Completely disagree. Both have to go hand in hand. The problem atm is that the keeper costs us a goal a game and the buildup / possession from defence and midfield is also poor.

 

[Mindhunter]

There was a slight deflection but surely you got to save those at this level. He seems to be lower table quality if not absolutely championship quality when it comes to his glove work. His footwork may be top 3 in the league though.

Also, he never inspires any confidence in me. Looks a bit flappy all the time. I am always unhappy with his positioning and the look of confusion on his face. This is what happens when we don't go for specialists. Instead of trying to buy a world-class goalkeeper who has good feet, we bought an average outfielder who is masquerading as one.

 

[Mercurial]

No DDG wouldnt struggle. Neither would he be more than a stop gap solution and neither do you find the type of goalkeepers like De Gea going forward. It’s like saying this cog is optimal for the machine, but it’s the machine that needs changing.

DDG is only 32, and we didn't need this mess right now.
I'm quite convinced having seen tons of stats for each season that we are technically alao a very poor side defensively and have been for oh oh so very long time. DDG put up a few leaguewinning efforts but we ended up 2 or 3 due to:

1. Not scoring to match
2. Relenting way too many shots against us,percentage wise it was sound at 70-80% saved, but percentage more shots even at 70-80% saved translate to more goals vs us.

We were always rotten from back to mid for havig shots given vs us like a midtable team. Our output always let us down in one way or another. DDG did his part enough times.

People can judge DDG all they want, but when he faces 50% more shots a year and of more dangerous quality yet puts up top4 or league winner stats and still get critiqued then that person is talking about his own feelings and not critique based on reality. If we had an impregnable defensive like other league winners do we would have seen a DDG lifting at least 2-3 EPL trophies last 10 years with us. The man has always done his part. He faced midtable levels of shots vs us but let in top low ammounts. The noname Mid/Back needed fixing urgently not the still WC or sub WC shotstopper. DDG was the one factor to even out many of our flaws.

 

[Mr Smith]

Ffs it's October. He's had a bad start. So did De Gea. Last year he was one of the best keepers in the world. Give him some time to turn it around.

 

[DRJosh]

Surely all this talk about Onana being a dud is premature? In what universe is a keeper meant to establish himself in under 10 games with a makeshift backline and a team bereft of any self-belief?

 

[The Siege]

I think he's an okay shot stopper who's having a bad patch of form and confidence with the rest of the team, making him a horrendous shot stopper. He looks like a keeper we can afford to have when we're great as a team, don't expose our keeper much, dominate possession etc. If we keep playing the way we do, we need a bail-out keeper (aka peak De Gea) which Onana is certainly not. Dave carried mediocre teams to top 4 all by himself in the mid 2010s, I don't think we went looking for that nor were we likely to easily find it.

 

[Kramer]

Feel for him. He is excellent with the ball at his feet. But our list of defensive injuries means we’re yet to use his best attributes well.

Don’t expect him to be as good a shot stopper as De Gea but he’s much better than what he’s shown till date.

Hope he has the mentality and fortitude to come out of this phase soon and start shining!

 

[Mercurial]

Some of you may want to take a step back and think about the following info and it’s implications -

Onana has made 27 saves in the PL thus far this season…

That’s 17 more than Ederson who has made 10.

10 more than Brentford’s keeper, Flekken, who’s made 17.

8 more than Pope at Newcastle.

8 more than Pickford who plays for an awful Everton side that concede chances for fun.

8 more than Martinez at Aston Villa.

6 more than Chelsea’s Sanchez in what has been a poor start for them.

If that isn’t enough, please, really listen to the following -

Andre Onana has made more saves than both the Luton and Forest keepers…

Those numbers are disgraceful - and not for Onana. Bear in mind this is a ball playing keeper playing for Man Utd who wasn’t even brought in to be a shot stopper - these stats should provide some much needed perspective for some on here.

Read them a few times if the penny doesn’t drop immediately.

The percentage of saves says something about the keeper, and Shots on target against us says something about the outfield players.

-Defense gave away shots on target to get us to 13th position
-Goalkeeper saved us shots at a rate enough for 12th position.

Factoring in we faced absolute weak opposition early bar Arsenal and Tottenham in rebuild we should have came out with much more points than we did. Onana let some absolute wonky goals in, he isn't the difference maker when it counted. Neither at saving or going forward so far.

Conclusion is our fielded defense is shit and our goalie is shit to match.

Misery loves company.

 

[norm87cro]

Yeah at this point he let in some questionable goals and I gave him the benefit of the doubt for long enough.
But still mr fraud Lindelof is to blame for the deflected goal as well and his fear of a duel/tackle or getting stuck in for the millionth time and playing safe piss poor aliby defending.
Still I wouldn't mind benching him since keepers are a funny sort and (like boxers) its all about the confidence or the lack of it

 

[fergiewherearethou]

He doesn't save anything, other than that he's so so good.

 

[Redfrog]

Ffs it's October. He's had a bad start. So did De Gea. Last year he was one of the best keepers in the world. Give him some time to turn it around.

We’ll see but DeGea was a teenager when he started for us. Nothing to do with Onana situation.

 

[Judas]

You’re being pedantic. It’s a phrase, as you know, to describe a style of keeper.

The point is that Onana has STOPPED MORE SHOTS than all the keepers I’ve listed above.

Sorry if the facts don’t fit the narrative.

It's nothing to do with a "narrative". He's saved more than most, as your stats show. But the ones he's let in though have been more often than not ridiculously soft and not the ones he should be conceding from. Surely you can see that.

I've said countless times I won't be too harsh until he has a proper defence in front of him as that always going to make a difference, but when you see balls like yesterday dribble under him its pretty painful to watch.

 

[rcoobc]

Last season we were joint 3rd in the Prem for goals conceded, but 7th for goals scored. And that's after the 7-0 and 6-3 losses to City and Liverpool...

This season we are joint 11th for goals conceded, and joint 11th for goals scored.

 

[Kingdingaling]

Some of you may want to take a step back and think about the following info and it’s implications -

Onana has made 27 saves in the PL thus far this season…

That’s 17 more than Ederson who has made 10.

10 more than Brentford’s keeper, Flekken, who’s made 17.

8 more than Pope at Newcastle.

8 more than Pickford who plays for an awful Everton side that concede chances for fun.

8 more than Martinez at Aston Villa.

6 more than Chelsea’s Sanchez in what has been a poor start for them.

If that isn’t enough, please, really listen to the following -

Andre Onana has made more saves than both the Luton and Forest keepers…

Those numbers are disgraceful - and not for Onana. Bear in mind this is a ball playing keeper playing for Man Utd who wasn’t even brought in to be a shot stopper - these stats should provide some much needed perspective for some on here.

Read them a few times if the penny doesn’t drop immediately.

Some of you may want to take a step back and think about the following info and it’s implications -

Onana has made 27 saves in the PL thus far this season…

That’s 17 more than Ederson who has made 10.

10 more than Brentford’s keeper, Flekken, who’s made 17.

8 more than Pope at Newcastle.

8 more than Pickford who plays for an awful Everton side that concede chances for fun.

8 more than Martinez at Aston Villa.

6 more than Chelsea’s Sanchez in what has been a poor start for them.

If that isn’t enough, please, really listen to the following -

Andre Onana has made more saves than both the Luton and Forest keepers…

Those numbers are disgraceful - and not for Onana. Bear in mind this is a ball playing keeper playing for Man Utd who wasn’t even brought in to be a shot stopper - these stats should provide some much needed perspective for some on here.

Read them a few times if the penny doesn’t drop immediately.

I would shoot too, knowing it’s him in goal, and probably score!

Use your eyes to see that he’s just dreadful, there hasn’t been one bit of ‘good goalkeeping’ so far.

 

[dinostar77]

Last season we were joint 3rd in the Prem for goals conceded, but 7th for goals scored. And that's after the 7-0 and 6-3 losses to City and Liverpool...

This season we are joint 11th for goals conceded, and joint 11th for goals scored.

Careful the anti de gea fanclub will have their pitchforks out.

 

[norm87cro]

Careful the anti de gea fanclub will have their pitchforks out.

This is getting to be an issue. Instead of people wanting our GKs and defenders to do better there are anti-ddg fans or anti-onana fans going with their own agenda. With the likes of Lindelof and Maguire you have to feel for the poor GK.
Objectivley speaking DDG was prehaps the best shot stopper (as a GK myself sometimes I was in awe of him) this club has ever had and a piss poor GK when it came to commanding his own 5 yard box. This really can not be denied. If Onana isnt good enough there are GKs on the market but going back to DDG would be lunacy

 

[robinrooney]

This guy is shockingly bad

AFCON can't come soon enough

 

[Donut]

This guy is shockingly bad

AFCON can't come soon enough

Will he even be picked? Surely they have someone less shite.

 

[Devil77]

Yeah, and the numbers are showing why. Our defense is literally letting people have an open shot at goal multiple times every game. We’re defending worse than relegation candidates. Let that sink in.

Not an excuse for letting in the easiest of shots. De Gea had these guys in front of him for years. Also, we bought a keeper for his ball playing and sweeper skills but he’s tied to the goal line.

 

[rcoobc]

Careful the anti de gea fanclub will have their pitchforks out.

I mean, I wouldn't think so, as everyone knows De Gea is a good shot stopper (with the odd error) but distribution and general ability with the ball at his feet wasn't good enough (which is ironic, because he was very good at Atletico).

But I do think the narrative about last season was wrong.

The problem wasn't our defence; De Gea, Varene, Martinez, Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Casemerio in front of them, was just about good enough for a top 3 Premier League club.

The problem is our attack. The amount of times we relied on Fernandez and Rashford to get us out of trouble is ridiculous.

These are all the Premier League games that we either won by a single goal, or drew, and who scored last season:

Liverpool 2-1 Sancho and Rashford
Southampton 1-0 Fernandes
Leicester 1-0 Sancho
Everton 2-1 Antony and Ronaldo
Newcastle 0-0
Chelsea 1-1 Casemrio
West Ham 1-0 Rashford
Fulham 2-1 Erikson and Garnacho
Wolves 1-0 Rashford
Man City 2-1 Rashford and Fernandes
Palace 1-1 Fernandes
Palace 2-1 Rashford and Fernandes (pen)
Leeds 2-2 Rashford and Sancho
Southampton 0-0
Brentford 1-0 Rashford
Spurs 2-2 Rashford and Sancho
Villa 1-0 Fernandes
Bournemouth 1-0 Casemiro
Fulham 2-1 Sancho and Fernandes

Now the problem here with all these single goal wins is if you concede a single goal, of if you fail to score that extra goal, you've dropped 2 points. Literally half the Premier League games we played; 19/38 we got points out of them, but those points hung in the balance by a single goal.

And in a way, it's not even a problem temporarily. Even City goes through periods where they have to grind out 1-0 and 2-1 wins. Around the time we won the EFL Cup, we looked like we might push on and start putting teams to the sword.

But that didn't really happen, and eventually it starts to catch up with you. If you're having to put in your heart and soul every game to win these matches, eventually you'll get burnt out. Especially if the atmosphere around the club isn't great. If you usually win by 3 goals, then yeah, grinding out the odd result isn't so bad.

As much as De Gea and the result of the defence frustrates me, they weren't actually where the problem was last season.

 

[Devil77]

This is getting to be an issue. Instead of people wanting our GKs and defenders to do better there are anti-ddg fans or anti-onana fans going with their own agenda. With the likes of Lindelof and Maguire you have to feel for the poor GK.
Objectivley speaking DDG was prehaps the best shot stopper (as a GK myself sometimes I was in awe of him) this club has ever had and a piss poor GK when it came to commanding his own 5 yard box. This really can not be denied. If Onana isnt good enough there are GKs on the market but going back to DDG would be lunacy

Maybe so. But Onana seems an average shot stopper and as bad as DDG when it comes to commanding the 5 yard box. This far he’s obviously a 50m downgrade no matter what spin you put on it.

 

[Bole Top]

saying the rest of the team should mask his weakness, which is basic goalkeeping, is just crazy given some of the shots he lets in. by that logic, there no bad goalkeepers, only teams failing to prevent other teams from shooting at goal. this is the most competitive league in the world with the best managers around and half the teams are good enough to come in position to shoot, even at Old Trafford. that's the reality he's facing.

 

[dinostar77]

This is getting to be an issue. Instead of people wanting our GKs and defenders to do better there are anti-ddg fans or anti-onana fans going with their own agenda. With the likes of Lindelof and Maguire you have to feel for the poor GK.
Objectivley speaking DDG was prehaps the best shot stopper (as a GK myself sometimes I was in awe of him) this club has ever had and a piss poor GK when it came to commanding his own 5 yard box. This really can not be denied. If Onana isnt good enough there are GKs on the market but going back to DDG would be lunacy

De Gea could pull off saves that he shouldnt of been able to save. Its a trait all the very elite keepers have. We may have gotten complacent with de gea's shot stopping ability, even though he was past his prime last season. Agree that he couldnt command his box and didnt want to come off the line.

Ideally he would have stayed for a season to fight it out with Onana. At this point in time, with Onana's poor form, having de gea come in would have been useful.

Onana isnt helping himself by conceeding soft goals. If his shot stopping ability wasnt of the highest tier we shouldnt have bought him. We need to stop buying players ETH 'worked with'.

 

[robinrooney]

Will he even be picked? Surely they have someone less shite.

You'd like to think so but who knows? As long as he makes the squad, that will do for me.

Disastrous signing and wasted money that could have been used elsewhere.

 

[norm87cro]

Maybe so. But Onana seems an average shot stopper and as bad as DDG when it comes to commanding the 5 yard box. This far he’s obviously a 50m downgrade no matter what spin you put on it.

I just said that maybe he should be benched mate. Im not putting any spin on it GKs are cheap and we could probably get a decent one in January. That still doesnt make DDG an option anymore.
Without going to the 5 yard debate I really dont agree with you but that isnt the point. We need two CBs (that really isnt the GKs fault) and a GK (and this is actually crucial) that has an UNDERSTANDING with his two CBs. Onana prehaps isnt the one for that. I honestly dont know.
Vds actually had an understanding with both Vidic and Ferdinand and aldo they were all world class it was their understanding that made them an impressive defensive unit.
Same could be said for Schmeichel Bruce and Pallister.
Its not that hard CBs and GKs are still cheaper than CFs and wingers but that actually implies United doing good business and not splashing 140+ mil on Maguire, Lindelof and Bailly

 

[Reditus]

3-3 draw but felt like a defeat.

Just hope Onana can turn it around but having doubts now.

Nope Utd did win. It was 2-3 https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/sep/11/newsstory.sport6

 

[frostbite]

Oct 29th, Onana vs City.

Is anyone else worried about this?

 

[norm87cro]

De Gea could pull off saves that he shouldnt of been able to save. Its a trait all the very elite keepers have. We may have gotten complacent with de gea's shot stopping ability, even though he was past his prime last season. Agree that he couldnt command his box and didnt want to come off the line.

Ideally he would have stayed for a season to fight it out with Onana. At this point in time, with Onana's poor form, having de gea come in would have been useful.

Onana isnt helping himself by conceeding soft goals. If his shot stopping ability wasnt of the highest tier we shouldnt have bought him. We need to stop buying players ETH 'worked with'.

This appears to be the "broader" issue with ETH not being stirct with Onana or Antony but very strict with Sancho.
Staying on the subject I wouldnt mind the likes of Leno, Sanchez or Pickford in January

 

[norm87cro]

Oct 29th, Onana vs City.

Is anyone else worried about this?

How about Lindelof vs Haaland? Personally Im more worried about that. Crucifing Onana doesnt really make much sense at this point mate. Eth should probably bench him but he is not going to do that to his boy. Antony enjoyes the same status

 

[Lee565]

He is a great example of pound for pound under the glazers, united are the worst run club in the premier league along with Everton, we must have the most lazy scouting in the league, he has a good showing in a high profile game (vs city) and our scouts basically say that is good enough and give the green the light to splash around 50 million on him and you know had he had bad game against city, we would not be seeing him in our goal this season

 

[Mb194dc]

He's got Kepa syndrome. His confidence is shot. You can see from Ajax and Inter he's not total gash.

ETH was his manager at Ajax so can't be too hard to figure out how to bring him back.

 

[afrocentricity]

Some of you may want to take a step back and think about the following info and it’s implications -

Onana has made 27 saves in the PL thus far this season…

That’s 17 more than Ederson who has made 10.

10 more than Brentford’s keeper, Flekken, who’s made 17.

8 more than Pope at Newcastle.

8 more than Pickford who plays for an awful Everton side that concede chances for fun.

8 more than Martinez at Aston Villa.

6 more than Chelsea’s Sanchez in what has been a poor start for them.

If that isn’t enough, please, really listen to the following -

Andre Onana has made more saves than both the Luton and Forest keepers…

Those numbers are disgraceful - and not for Onana. Bear in mind this is a ball playing keeper playing for Man Utd who wasn’t even brought in to be a shot stopper - these stats should provide some much needed perspective for some on here.

Read them a few times if the penny doesn’t drop immediately.

Good post

 

[hellhunter]

I'm less concerned by his blunders than the complete lack of decent saves.

It happens that you feck up when moving to a new league, need to settle with a new makeshift defense and so on, but surely you should occasionally save one if you're actually good beneath the struggles?

Edit: Bad timing for the post with the one above clearly showing that I'm off and only my subjective impression

 

[Dve]

Some of you may want to take a step back and think about the following info and it’s implications -

Onana has made 27 saves in the PL thus far this season…

That’s 17 more than Ederson who has made 10.

10 more than Brentford’s keeper, Flekken, who’s made 17.

8 more than Pope at Newcastle.

8 more than Pickford who plays for an awful Everton side that concede chances for fun.

8 more than Martinez at Aston Villa.

6 more than Chelsea’s Sanchez in what has been a poor start for them.

If that isn’t enough, please, really listen to the following -

Andre Onana has made more saves than both the Luton and Forest keepers…

Those numbers are disgraceful - and not for Onana. Bear in mind this is a ball playing keeper playing for Man Utd who wasn’t even brought in to be a shot stopper - these stats should provide some much needed perspective for some on here.

Read them a few times if the penny doesn’t drop immediately.

Useless stats. In reality, Onana hasn't made one single save that any decent goalie wouldn't have done.

 

[afrocentricity]

if those are the facts than the team has to worry more about their defending then anything else. It isn’t really a badge of honour in this context that Onana has more saves then the others.

Seems to me, that's the exact point? his making

 

[UpWithRivers]

He is a great example of pound for pound under the glazers, united are the worst run club in the premier league along with Everton, we must have the most lazy scouting in the league, he has a good showing in a high profile game (vs city) and our scouts basically say that is good enough and give the green the light to splash around 50 million on him and you know had he had bad game against city, we would not be seeing him in our goal this season

What are you on about. This is all on Ten Haag. He is Ten Haags old goalkeeper. I struggle to see why the glaziers get the blame or the scouts but Ten Haag gets away with it. Its a disgrace from Ten Haag. There is a reason why no other top managers bought there old players. Did Klopp buy all the Dortmund players? I think Pep has bought one of his old players in his whole career. But Ten Haag just gets all his old trash and doesn't even know they are sht. Madness

 

[Seaside Aggro]

For those that remember when City got their first ball playing keeper, we’re currently in the Claudio Bravonana era.

 

[norm87cro]

Good post

Look mate you can do stats all you like but the fact of the matter is we are not very good and Onana has a lot to do.

He is a great example of pound for pound under the glazers, united are the worst run club in the premier league along with Everton, we must have the most lazy scouting in the league, he has a good showing in a high profile game (vs city) and our scouts basically say that is good enough and give the green the light to splash around 50 million on him and you know had he had bad game against city, we would not be seeing him in our goal this season

Maybe. In defence of Everton they really dont have the funding we do do they? I really feel for Onana but he is a professional GK and has money we can all dream of and I really dont have that much symphaty for him.
There are GKs on the market we can get from 5 to 15 mil so thats that