Confidence is a complex issue: its absence makes humans do stupid stuff. You stand outside yourself watching, worrying. Simple things things that you would normally do effortlessly become trials of your worth. I think this is (among other things) what is happening to Onana and some of the other players.
Onana has not worked out. We need a new keeper.
- Thread starter Plant0x84
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Is anyone like me in not blaming him too much for today’s goal. He got down quickly for an unsighted shot but it went under his wrist rather than his hand, which would have stopped it going in. The balls up in clearing the ball made the goal happen. He shouldn’t be blamed for not getting down low for that type of shot from about 10 yards. The shot shouldn’t be available and Lindelof should do better to block it, rather than letting it past him and unsighting his keeper in the process.
He wasn't this bad for Inter that's for sure. He's lost a lot of confidence and doesn't seem to be standing in the right places sometimes.
That is clutching at straws to defend him. It’s a howler from him. The shot had no real pace and was very saveable. He has just not started well for United. Hope he turns it around, but I don’t think he will ever inspire confidence in fans that he has the goal locked down. Tame shots will get past him!
Hopefully it's just a confidence issue but right now he is a downgrade from De Gea.
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Onana sad: Fact isn't very good
It’s not clutching at anything, it’s an opinion. He saved harder shots than that one and the same game so it’s not his saving ability, and any shot that you don’t have a perfect view of from that distance has the potential to go in. Confidence may be an issue but our defence has not helped him in the slightest. When we stop allowing shots at him inside our own box on a consistent basis then we will see the bets of him. He’s not a shot stopper like De Gea but nobody ever said he was. But even Allison would concede goals in our team. He needs protecting more.
I agree with that - the defence could take a lot of pressure off him by just not allowing as many shots to come at him. Onana doesn’t have the luxury of playing in front of a settled back 4.
His head has completely gone. His position is that important I'm not sure this can carry on.
We should either try the Turkish lad or look to bring De Gea back!
We should either try the Turkish lad or look to bring De Gea back!
DDG wouldn’t struggle.
He gave us top 4's often 2's with tons of shots against him.
Hope people appreciate him more now that they realize it's a shitty defense and not just any keeper can hack it.
We let DDG down, I'll die on that hill.
You can have Onana back.
Neither did DDG for 10 years and yet kept us above a minimum 70% save rating all the time. Onana ran out of excuses fast.
No DDG wouldnt struggle. Neither would he be more than a stop gap solution and neither do you find the type of goalkeepers like De Gea going forward. It’s like saying this cog is optimal for the machine, but it’s the machine that needs changing.
Some of you may want to take a step back and think about the following info and it’s implications -
Onana has made 27 saves in the PL thus far this season…
That’s 17 more than Ederson who has made 10.
10 more than Brentford’s keeper, Flekken, who’s made 17.
8 more than Pope at Newcastle.
8 more than Pickford who plays for an awful Everton side that concede chances for fun.
8 more than Martinez at Aston Villa.
6 more than Chelsea’s Sanchez in what has been a poor start for them.
If that isn’t enough, please, really listen to the following -
Andre Onana has made more saves than both the Luton and Forest keepers…
Those numbers are disgraceful - and not for Onana. Bear in mind this is a ball playing keeper playing for Man Utd who wasn’t even brought in to be a shot stopper - these stats should provide some much needed perspective for some on here.
Read them a few times if the penny doesn’t drop immediately.
He’s been shite at saving the shots he’s saved…?
Read again WUMMY. These aren’t shots he’s faced - these are saves he’s made vs other PL goalkeepers.
He’s been utterly shite! I’ve never seen a keeper make a worse start to life at the club or any club for that matter.
It's football. Opposition forwards are going to have shots on your goal. The keeper's job is to at least save the easy ones. And from what I've seen of Onana so far, he seems incapable of doing even that.
Brentford had 3 shots on target all game, and they scored from the one that went in the middle of the goal for onana to make a routine save.
Bayern did the same with their first goal vs us too, didn't have a sniff for the first 25, pot shot for a routine save, led to a goal.
Really interesting stats those. I’m not bashing Onana, However, surely all keepers need to be shot stoppers? Otherwise we would see midfielders in goal if it was just down to passing ability.
The fundamental thing a keeper should be focussing on is keeping the ball out of his net. Once he’s got that down, then he can further his other abilities.
I'm sorry but the problem is the one he has let in were easy shots or came from his own mistakes.
He's basically Claudio Bravo, and needs to be protected. Like a literal glass cannon. It is what it is.
Number of saves is about the most rudimentary stat you can use for keepers, and laying them out like this doesn't tell you very much. People's chief complaint with Onana is that he is not making routine saves or saves that you would expect any other keeper to make.
What is his standout save this season? De Gea had plenty of blunders, but he also made plenty of saves that got you out of your seat or that you would not otherwise expect other keepers to make.
Love them or hate them, there are plenty of advanced keeping stats available. Most germane to this topic is the unwieldy sounding PSXG +/-, or Post Shot Expected Goals minus Goals Allowed, from FBREF. In this stat, he currently sits 15th (both outright and on a per 90 basis) in the league behind each of the keepers you've compared him to except for Flekken, who has had quite the rocky start at Brentford and Pickford who everyone thinks is horrible. The only other big team keeper that is behind him in this stat is Aaron Ramsdale and guess what happened to him? Dropped.
Nobody is asking for him to be a Peter Schmeichel level shot stopper. Average would be a nice start. Until the team can transition to a style that showcases more of his abilities to counterbalance his deficiencies in shotstopping, he simply has to improve in this area.
And he has literally stopped more shots than…
Ederson (City - Onana has made 27 saves to Ederson’s 10!)
Pope (Newcastle)
Pickford (Everton)
Martinez (Villa)
Sanchez (Chelsea)
Flekken (Brentford)
Kaminski (LUTON!!!)
Raya & Ramsdale combined (Ars)
Johnstone (Palace)
Turner (FOREST!)
3-3 draw but felt like a defeat.
Just hope Onana can turn it around but having doubts now.
The fact that people can't accept that he's been shite is utterly astounding, honestly. He's made more calamitous mistakes in just a few weeks than David James did in his entire career. The amount of easy shots he stopped is fairly obviously irrelevant when he's performing this poorly.
Hopefully this win will sort him out and he knocks on from here on out though because he didn't used to be so, so dreadful...so it must be confidence based
Hopefully this win will sort him out and he knocks on from here on out though because he didn't used to be so, so dreadful...so it must be confidence based
Are you sure a football club will sign a goalkeeper not to be a shot stopper?
You’re being pedantic. It’s a phrase, as you know, to describe a style of keeper.
The point is that Onana has STOPPED MORE SHOTS than all the keepers I’ve listed above.
Sorry if the facts don’t fit the narrative.
if those are the facts than the team has to worry more about their defending then anything else. It isn’t really a badge of honour in this context that Onana has more saves then the others.
We have a few "expert" here foaming at their mouth that DDG need to be replaced and Onana will transformed us into different team altogether with his built up play.
Fast forward, I don't see much improvement in our build up play. I also don't see any improvement in our style of play and in fact we have regressed from last season.
Fast forward, I don't see much improvement in our build up play. I also don't see any improvement in our style of play and in fact we have regressed from last season.
These stats are disgraceful, and as an outside observer I suspect that Man United's defence is more than happy to let Onana be the scapegoat.
There is just no feeling between your defence and your goalkeeper, and I suspect your defence is not helping him at all and are happy Onana is taking most of the blame.
Your defence is currently awful, with no offense intended (I massively respect Man United).
I know you guys don't care how Onana performed at Inter, but let's be real.
Inter fans will know Onana much better than anyone of you. He did some mistakes at the beginning, but he came out to be a solid shotstopper with world class passing and great leadership.
My theory is that, right now, Man United has been an hostile place for him.
His defence is a joke, doesn't offer any kind of stability nor does it allow him to expect what kind of shots can come his way (part of the strength of any goalkeeper in any team lies there), and is most likely working against him to hide from the criticism it'd rightfully deserve. But Onana had the nerve to get angry at his defence during pre-season, and now he is probably getting punished for it, while the defenders, who are forcing Onana to make more saves than any other EPL goalkeeper, are still hiding and glad they have a scapegoat.
Onana has displayed poor goalkeeping so far at United, is not the Onana that was seen at Inter, and will turn into a solid keeper again once he leaves.
The amount of hostility he is getting is unreal.
I’ve watch him all season for Inter, to know he is a good goalkeeper. My rating of him is just not exaggerated.
Didn’t expect you’d bite.
All keepers are shot stoppers. If he's not brought in to be a shot stopper then that's a huge problem as he has made 27 saves and conceded 12. Some of those keepers with a perfect record of saves couldn't get to 25. We concede a lot of shots but honestly I don't think any of the shots he's saved was a shot that I didn't expect our keeper to save 100% of the time. He most definitely should have saved more. His only good piece of goalkeeping came in the 2nd half against Bayern after he had already gifted a goal.
He's frankly looked embarrassing 1v1, just look at his footwork for Icardi's and Iwoniyi's goals. Just terrible footwork just like in today's game when they scored and when Dalot bailed him out.
Just like we expect our forwards to sometimes score a goal out of nothing or at least score goals regularly from decent positions you expect your goalkeeper to sometimes save you a bit. Onana won't. There's at least 5 goals we've conceded that weren't his fault but he definitely could have done better and definitely were shots that we expected DDG to save more often than not.
The number's are disgraceful for our defensive performances. We concede too many shots on goals. Not that unexpected considering our defensive woes. There hasn't been stability in front of Onana and Onana hasn't given the defenders in front of him a reason to be confident. If you don't trust your keeper to save you're going to play with a nagging voice in the back of your head.
This table basically tells how bad our defense has been. It matches our league position, lower mid table.
The fact that the team in front of him is shite does not alter the fact he has been pretty dire so far. Many of the goals he has conceded to date have been soft and that is a fact regardless of whatever your narrative is. I hope he improves and does so soon because at present he does not look fit for purpose.
What was instantly impacted and better was our ability to not be pressed high and dealing with that. Unfortunately, injuries killed our main build up players, so the build up went back to struggling but we still aren't bad under a high press. It's doing anything else where the struggles lie (the Galatasaray goal was a brain fart, unforced mistake, not a pressing forced mistake).
De Gea absolutely had to go. He had been a mediocre goalkeeper for years with a ton of weaknesses and somewhat regularly made mistakes just like Onana has been making. But yes Onana has to be much better than he's been because he's been shit. Rock bottom confidence though I'm sure he'll start saving normal shots.
The fact he's facing more shits is also down to the fact other teams know he's a liability too, so are more willing to pepper him with shots, it was the same for DDG at the start.
Yeah but what about mistakes and letting in tame shots. Is he top of the list too?
Tell that to our football director and his data analytics team who are supposed to suggest suitable signings.
Yeah, and the numbers are showing why. Our defense is literally letting people have an open shot at goal multiple times every game. We’re defending worse than relegation candidates. Let that sink in.
Signing Onana was a bit of a “cart before the horse” type of signing, but it was forced by De Gea’s collapse. We need to be an effective possession team to get the best out of his attributes, but we’re still miles off from that.
The makeshift defense obviously hasn’t helped but at the same time, he’s been much worse than advertised with the ball at his feet. He’s certainly got something, but he doesn’t show it near often enough. The little show of having a centerback touch the ball off to him on goal kicks so he can either put us under pressure or boot it long anyway does my head in.
The makeshift defense obviously hasn’t helped but at the same time, he’s been much worse than advertised with the ball at his feet. He’s certainly got something, but he doesn’t show it near often enough. The little show of having a centerback touch the ball off to him on goal kicks so he can either put us under pressure or boot it long anyway does my head in.