Yet he's clearly improving several of the players McTominay, Rashford, Martial, Fred, James to name a few. I guess he will need to turn Pereira into Paul Scholes or something before people start to see it.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Ole is probably the only manager that can rebuild this team without thinking about himself first.
Get any other manager in and they go straight into self-preservation mode (Mourinho style).
When this happens we get a lot of short-term fixes, that we are stuck with for the foreseeable future (Matic anyone?).
Ole knew going into this season that things were going to get rough.
He even mentioned at the end of last season to watch out for the teams coming from behind.
In terms of signings, he only got 3, but still opted to clear unwanted players and rely on youth.
United is currently fielding the youngest team in the Premier League, and 5 youngsters got their debut against Astana (new record).
Playing youth leads to inconsistency in performances, but also lays the foundation for those players to excel in the future.
A benefit of this is that a lot of young players would be interested in signing with us in the future, as they can see a clear pathway to the first team.
This United team needs at least 3 years before they can challenge for the Premier League.
Not only do we need a squad rebuild, but we also need time to get the mentality instilled behind the scenes.
The recruitment process needs a serious revamp and we are taking steps in the right direction.
I see a lot of people saying we need to buy a backup for this and that player.
This is not how a rebuild works. Players coming in should be better than what we got, or at least have the potential to be better.
You need competition in all places to push the players every day, only then will we compete at the highest level.
United players under SAF have stated on more than one occasion that matches in training were harder than the real thing.
The results this season have been disappointing, but if you look behind the results of a lot of the matches, it's not all doom and gloom.
Include the ridiculous amount of injuries to key players we had and it's understandable.
It's pretty clear that the current team lacks the quality needed to consistently win matches.
You can't blame tactics for losses when we are playing players that wouldn't have a sniff in other teams in the PL.
In my opinion, we need a top-class striker. I don't think Martial has what it takes.
He's a brilliant player on his day, but his movement off the ball is not good enough. His work rate is also questionable.
It's frustrating watching James put in crosses between the Gk and defense and no one is there to put it away.
You never see runs at the near post when the cross comes.
Ole was an expert in these areas so I doubt it is a lack of coaching.
We need at least 2 midfielders, a rightwinger, a number 10 and a left-back.
If we get these players in and we are still not performing, I'll be singing Ole out with great enthusiasm.
Until then I'll reserve my judgment.
Get any other manager in and they go straight into self-preservation mode (Mourinho style).
When this happens we get a lot of short-term fixes, that we are stuck with for the foreseeable future (Matic anyone?).
Ole knew going into this season that things were going to get rough.
He even mentioned at the end of last season to watch out for the teams coming from behind.
In terms of signings, he only got 3, but still opted to clear unwanted players and rely on youth.
United is currently fielding the youngest team in the Premier League, and 5 youngsters got their debut against Astana (new record).
Playing youth leads to inconsistency in performances, but also lays the foundation for those players to excel in the future.
A benefit of this is that a lot of young players would be interested in signing with us in the future, as they can see a clear pathway to the first team.
This United team needs at least 3 years before they can challenge for the Premier League.
Not only do we need a squad rebuild, but we also need time to get the mentality instilled behind the scenes.
The recruitment process needs a serious revamp and we are taking steps in the right direction.
I see a lot of people saying we need to buy a backup for this and that player.
This is not how a rebuild works. Players coming in should be better than what we got, or at least have the potential to be better.
You need competition in all places to push the players every day, only then will we compete at the highest level.
United players under SAF have stated on more than one occasion that matches in training were harder than the real thing.
The results this season have been disappointing, but if you look behind the results of a lot of the matches, it's not all doom and gloom.
Include the ridiculous amount of injuries to key players we had and it's understandable.
It's pretty clear that the current team lacks the quality needed to consistently win matches.
You can't blame tactics for losses when we are playing players that wouldn't have a sniff in other teams in the PL.
In my opinion, we need a top-class striker. I don't think Martial has what it takes.
He's a brilliant player on his day, but his movement off the ball is not good enough. His work rate is also questionable.
It's frustrating watching James put in crosses between the Gk and defense and no one is there to put it away.
You never see runs at the near post when the cross comes.
Ole was an expert in these areas so I doubt it is a lack of coaching.
We need at least 2 midfielders, a rightwinger, a number 10 and a left-back.
If we get these players in and we are still not performing, I'll be singing Ole out with great enthusiasm.
Until then I'll reserve my judgment.
Fecking hell. I said after the Villa game i had lost hope in him and now i have a bit of hope again? Send help!
Seriously though, his record against big teams and "good managers" is incredibly good. So why the feck cant we put away these smaller teams? I still maintain that many of those games vs the smaller teams we were robbed, but we had enough games now that this just cant be a coincidence.
Yes, we struggle to break down parked buses, but there is much more to it than that. Vs the big teams we seem sharp, focused and driven, where as vs the smaller teams we are complacent, lazy and cowardly. Must be some kind of mentality issue
Seriously though, his record against big teams and "good managers" is incredibly good. So why the feck cant we put away these smaller teams? I still maintain that many of those games vs the smaller teams we were robbed, but we had enough games now that this just cant be a coincidence.
Yes, we struggle to break down parked buses, but there is much more to it than that. Vs the big teams we seem sharp, focused and driven, where as vs the smaller teams we are complacent, lazy and cowardly. Must be some kind of mentality issue
“Become”?
Very generous assessment.
For me our young team will make mistakes. Williams against Villa for example. Perriera isn’t good enough to play, but has to because of our squad.
Things have got worse on here though. Haven't they? It wasn't always this stupid.
There's an obvious context to our position. Our supporters are too spoilt though so they are more interested in seeing heads rolls as punishment than considering that rebuilding a squad might actually take time. We've got a manager that has shown a knack for fecking up the big teams but somehow the prevailing narrative is that he's tactically clueless. How is that even possible?
For some football is all about statistics and history. Ole come from a smaller league so he must be bad. That is all there is to their feelings.
That's really the difference between good managers and great ones. The great ones have an ability to keep their squad motivated to win, no matter the opponent and their stature. They make winning a habit.
Ole is a good manager, I believe but not a great one. He has the right ideas in his head and the man management skills not to antagonize his players. He may even develop the tactical ability to change games mid way given a better squad but for me whats questionable is his ability to be a serial winner.
There is no denying the performances, not only the results, against good PL teams are good. Not enough for a CL place though.
We have reached RAWK level of romantic naivety.Ole's results/performance in big games is good but our struggles against smaller clubs is very worrying stat. Maybe the reason for his is he left the squad too short (in numbers and quality) especially in CM/AM position or because of injuries to key players who are capable of opening up defenses like Martial and Pogba.
Jose's record vs big 6 in all competitions.
Ole's record vs big 6 in all competitions.
Against big 6
Something that's well know, we have done well against big 6 but we should improve a lot against smaller clubs/non big 6 clubs.
Jose's record vs big 6 in all competitions.
| Played | Won | Lost | Goals scored | Goals conceded | |
| PL - Home | 12 | 6 | 3 | 16 | 14 |
| PL- Away | 13 | 2 | 7 | 11 | 22 |
| PL Total | 25 | 8 | 10 | 27 | 36 |
| Played | Won | Lost | Goals scored | Goals conceded | |
| Cup home | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Cup Away | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
| Cup Neutral | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 |
| Total | 4 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 |
| Played | Won | Lost | Goals scored | Goals conceded | |
| Total vs Big 6 | 29 | 10 | 12 | 30 | 39 |
| Played | Won | Lost | Goals scored | Goals conceded | |
| PL - Home | 7 | 2 | 1 | 9 | 6 |
| PL- Away | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| PL Total | 9 | 3 | 2 | 10 | 8 |
| Played | Won | Lost | Goals scored | Goals conceded | |
| Cup home | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Cup Away | 3 | 3 | 0 | 7 | 2 |
| Cup Neutral | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Cup Total | 3 | 3 | 0 | 7 | 2 |
| Played | Won | Lost | Goals scored | Goals conceded | |
| Total vs Big 6 | 12 | 6 | 2 | 17 | 10 |
Against big 6
| Jose | Ole | |
| PL Win % | 32% | 33% |
| PL Loss % | 40% | 22% |
| PL Goals per Game | 1.08 | 1.1 |
| PL Goals conceded Per game | 1.44 | 0.88 |
| Overall Win % | 34% | 50% |
| Overall Loss % | 41% | 16% |
| Overall Goals per Game | 1 | 1.4 |
| Overall Goals conceded Per game | 1.3 | 0.83 |
Something that's well know, we have done well against big 6 but we should improve a lot against smaller clubs/non big 6 clubs.
Top post.
Pretty much my thoughts.
People losing their minds at the moment..........can imagine half them youtube fan pages being livid that we won last night
It definitely is mentality issue.
It seems like when we're facing lesser teams, we don't have to go all out and feel we're better than them.
It's like we're Lamborghini in a drag race with a fiat, but we're just putting on the gas for the sake of putting on the gas. While the fiat driver tried their best to hit all the gears perfectly.
In the case of footballers, putting extra efforts means injury risks, so they tend to take a relaxed approach and trust their abilities. Save the extra efforts in bigger games and better opponents.
But abilities can only bring you so far, not to the end of the line.
Conversely it just reinforces my view that he needs to go. We know we do better against the better teams but that's only 4 or 5 teams in the league and those games require no coaching just good individual performances. Also the team showed with the right manager, we can do a lot better than we have seen to date. I understand about injuries but we all knew the potential for it cause the squad was light even before players left. He should have signed cover rather than wait for the right player, signed one and make them better. That's what good managers do...
I think it's the complete opposite, playing teams at the top of the table requires huge amounts of team work and strategy, far more so than playing teams that camp in their own box, where you mostly rely on individual brilliance to get the goals that unlock those games(once the other team has to attack it's a different story).
LVG also had a good record against the better teams despite never being able to genuinely create a cohesive and fluent Manchest United team. I'd much rather have our manager develop the collective the way Pochettino did while struggling against the better teams than beat teams like LVG yet fail to make genuine progress.
On Ole, he has done well in the bigger games and credit to him for that. But can't help but feel the whole high energy, fast paced, often counter attacking (away) style suits his coaching of the team, as well being what these players are used to doing well (see Rashford and co when there's space in behind). But the test of a method or a system is how it is universally. And universally we are still broken and pretty terrible as a collective.
I'd love for Ole to come good. And we're 7 points behind Chelsea (also a young team) so you never know. But his coaching of this team just seems so run of the mill. I don't see any excellence in it and hence can't see him being our manager next year.
As much as I am angered and frustrated by our results this year, I've never wanted some to succeed here more than Ole. It just feels as if unlike any short-term gains a change might bring, succes from Ole's approach would ensure long term future of the club on the pitch.
For me it just alludes to the same problem we've been seeing for a while now, and that's an inability to create against teams who tuck in against us. Play deep, narrow and pack the midfield and we will always struggle, particularly when Pogba is out. We been signing squad players for too long now. We need quality otherwise we will continue to tread water. If and this is a big if, we invest big over the course of the next two windows, then having a period of famine in order to facilitate a feast is acceptable for me. Either way, when a manager lacks the necessary tools to do a job, you can't lay all the blame at their feet. No manager in the world can add the level of creativity we need just by coaching.
Old Trafford was absolutely buzzing last night. Hearing the fans singing OLE OLE OLE as Mourinho and the players walked out was a real show of intent straight away.
That was probably the best 30 mins at home against a "big team" that I can remember, we absolutely battered them. Typical of us to have a sloppy defensive moment and ruin it all.
For me this just shows as Peter Schmeichel said pre game, good players will always be good, bad players will always be bad.
The inclusion of Mctominay just gives our team an extra 10% extra. Rashford when playing at his best gives us 10% extra. We need better quality players to push the squad and give us more options.
That was probably the best 30 mins at home against a "big team" that I can remember, we absolutely battered them. Typical of us to have a sloppy defensive moment and ruin it all.
For me this just shows as Peter Schmeichel said pre game, good players will always be good, bad players will always be bad.
The inclusion of Mctominay just gives our team an extra 10% extra. Rashford when playing at his best gives us 10% extra. We need better quality players to push the squad and give us more options.
If you count Rashford, Martial and Pogba I would say we’re half and half with Chelsea.
Problem is, Chelsea’s front six have actually played together most of the season while ours hasnt.
Aside from that I agree that they are playing much better than us against low-blocks
To give him his due, its a great result and its not the first time he has got unexpected results against "better" teams. I'm far from convinced but its nice to revel in a positive result and performance again.
If Ole can get in a centre midfield and a number 10 or a goalscorer who can create something out of nothing and could make a difference against teams that sit deep in january then I would be happy going in to 2nd half of season.
Problem with OGS is that he is just as much hot and cold as the team.
He has some games of brilliance when facing a big challenge, then he flunks out with a bad line-up and no visible tactics in other games.
He is just as "young" as some of his players, probably because he has never managed at this level before. Thats also probably whe he doesnt know how to play when we're having more than 50% possession, or what to do when key players are out injured.
He has some games of brilliance when facing a big challenge, then he flunks out with a bad line-up and no visible tactics in other games.
He is just as "young" as some of his players, probably because he has never managed at this level before. Thats also probably whe he doesnt know how to play when we're having more than 50% possession, or what to do when key players are out injured.
There are alot of posts on here about Ole. I for one have called for his head but when you go to matches and watch the games, it is clear to see that on matchdays there is full support for Ole.
Manutd fans would want nothing but to see Ole succeed at OT but he has shown that in the lesser games we lack alot. We don't create, dont score and easy to play against.
Manutd fans would want nothing but to see Ole succeed at OT but he has shown that in the lesser games we lack alot. We don't create, dont score and easy to play against.
If he is here in Jan he needs to do himself a favour and buy two players.
Without a midfielder and Attacker we are guaranteed to have a repeat of what has already happened this season.
Without a midfielder and Attacker we are guaranteed to have a repeat of what has already happened this season.
Ole turns up for big games, because he was (as a player) and is (as a manager) an underdog. He thrives on the games where he's almost expected to drop points, usually because this involves playing bigger teams who naturally attack us and leave openings as a result.
He was the underdog last night, he turned up. He is the favourite against Steve Bruce, Roy Hodgson and Eddie Howe and he capitulates regularly.
Whether that is something you want in a United manager, is up to you. Personally I want a manager confident of beating anyone under any circumstances, favourite or not.
We aren't buying anyone in January, I would bet my entire savings on it. We very rarely do. Ed isn't gonna sign off big money in January. I see us selling Pogba in January and 'replacing' him in the summer - that is the United news that will dominate the January window. Bear in mind, after City, results are likely to start climbing positively so that will remove pressure on us to reinforce.
I dont think we are doing this though. Ole was an interim solution that was given the job because of results. We aren't going to try Bruce or Keane or Giggs if this doesn't go the distance.
This project would have gone ahead whether we had Ole in the seat or whether we'd canned him after his interim period and went with Pochettino or whoever else. The objectives would have been the same. We couldn't go on squandering money, and it was time for a new direction.
Injury and some of our players are young & teenager who haven't hit their prime yet, result in inconsistency performance.
You can't be flip flop with your decision because of the result. You need to understand why we are not getting the results, whether he's the right man or no & what he's trying to do & what he has done to start the rebuilding plan.
I think a manager deserves to be given 2 summer transfer windows to show what he's capable of.
Nonsense
That isn't going to happen though. Ole is already talking about 'loans'.
First of all let me start by saying I was over the moon by the performance last night. Was a nice feeling to enjoy a United game again.
Now, to play devils advocate, the people saying Ole will be fine once he gets reinforcements in January, it's looking like that isn't going to happen and it will be a 'loan' signing if anything. So if that is the case and he continues to drop points against mediocre teams what will be your judgment then? As that would spell to me the Glazers \ Woodward aren't as behind 'the rebuild' as you would be lead to believe.
Now, to play devils advocate, the people saying Ole will be fine once he gets reinforcements in January, it's looking like that isn't going to happen and it will be a 'loan' signing if anything. So if that is the case and he continues to drop points against mediocre teams what will be your judgment then? As that would spell to me the Glazers \ Woodward aren't as behind 'the rebuild' as you would be lead to believe.
He needs to learn to beat the smaller teams. It’s good getting the guys going in the big games but the results against lower PL sides is awful.
The squad has the right balance and is good on the counter so in the big games we do alright but we need to be more attacking/daring in other games.
The squad has the right balance and is good on the counter so in the big games we do alright but we need to be more attacking/daring in other games.
Proof of your opinion?
So Ole doesn't do better against managers/teams he's supposed to drop points against than teams he's supposed to beat?
Bollocks mate.
If you wanted an underdog manager, you should have backed Moyes. He was more proven as a manager than Ole, too.
Still so pleased about yesterday. Regardless of my opinion on him, which will need a long time to change, but yesterday was a complete performance for me. First big match that I actually felt we didn't park the bus but we were competitive. Was a very intense match going back and forth. I actually said from the start the lineup was pretty good.
For God's sake, let's hope this isn't a false down and we can build on this.
For God's sake, let's hope this isn't a false down and we can build on this.
I'm conflicted about this point, even though we don't yet know what is going to happen. We know that January is a difficult time to get players - hopefully we intend to at least try and also that the finances are there to do so. If not I wouldn't be against one or two loan signings, because squad depth is such an issue that having better cover can't be a bad thing even if they are only placeholders.
Since Ole isn't on the pitch, and that his behaviour on the touchline during all of our matches doesn't seem to be any different, you seem to be suggesting that there is some difference in our preparation depending on the perceived strength of our opponents - if that is your point then IMO its nonsense.
We've now seen him hold his own this season against Jose, Rodgers, Klopp & Lampard - so the 'tactically incompetent' argument should quieten down for now since that doesn't necessarily seem to be true. No doubt it will come back at the weekend if, as is likely, we lose away to a superior team.
Completely agree.
That's one of the really noticeable positives for me as well.
100% down to a working midfield! Fred is slowly, but steady getting better. And with Mctominay as partner yesteday they had some really positive energy and controll. The passing is getting more crisp, tempo is getting better and they are not playing sideways safe options when there is movement arround or up front. Ole has criticized this, and it seems to get better. Honestly, with the tempo yesterday, this squad is only a few signings from going places.
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