The funniest part is that the guy who they want to take over is probably one of the most tactically incompetent "top" managers around with his 3 wins in 30 away-games (yes, i'll keep on repeating this) against top 6-sides.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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The funniest part is that the guy who they want to take over is probably one of the most tactically incompetent "top" managers around with his 3 wins in 30 away-games (yes, i'll keep on repeating this) against top 6-sides.
They? The collective hivemind group-think branch of Utd fans that are unfalteringly aligned on all issues? For what it’s worth I would gnaw my own arm off if it meant Ole got us back to the top. I will never resort to childish and personal attacks, nor loudly shout for his dismissal, but I don’t think he’s shown he has what it takes to do the job. I’m also not sold on Poch. Rather I’ve been sold on the idea of Rangnick + a German.
That said I’m enjoying this season, warts an’ all. It’s a young and learnin’ team with a whole lotta heart. Last night was fecking great and we should all be revelling in it. Onwards and upwards!
I don't know why we have people talking about 'Hope this isn't a false dawn.' Of course it is a false dawn. It is one match in which all of our players were buoyed up for one and we won. We have had a million 'false dawns' since Fergie retried.
It is also striking what the bar for a 'dawn' seems to be these days. One win, or even two wins in a row seem to be what a constitutes one around here.
It is also striking what the bar for a 'dawn' seems to be these days. One win, or even two wins in a row seem to be what a constitutes one around here.
Yes, "they". Reading on this forum and on social media in general, I''m sure at least 95% of the fans that keeps on repeating that Ole is tactically clueless at the same time are cheering for Poch to get the job. I don't have a problem with people wanting a change in manager, it's the disrespectul and twattish comments about a club-legend that is in the middle of a huge rebuild that I have issues with, and pretty much all of them are pushing their Poch-agenda non-stop.
I think Ole deserves at least till the end of the season to see if he can build on the positives and keep developing this young team while adding a few missing pieces in the January-window. If he fails, I'd much rather look to Germany for someone like Nagelsmann.
It's madness that he's seen as such as sure thing. The same people that want him brought in tomorrow will be wanting him sacked before the end of the season.
Still not convinced by him, his just papering over cracks at the moment
odds 10/1 to beat city, let that sink in...
how far we have fallen !
odds 10/1 to beat city, let that sink in...
how far we have fallen !
Fred and McTominay are doing very adequately together when both are fit.
However.
if you allow the club to convince you that this should be our first choice midfield going forward as a result, you are in for a rude awakening. They simply are not. That is not a top 4 midfield, let alone a title challenging one - if they were options rather than cemented first choices, we'd have a good selection of options there.
Do not allow Ole and the board to tell you that Fred and Scott are our future in CM or you're settling for mediocrity and lowering standards.
However.
if you allow the club to convince you that this should be our first choice midfield going forward as a result, you are in for a rude awakening. They simply are not. That is not a top 4 midfield, let alone a title challenging one - if they were options rather than cemented first choices, we'd have a good selection of options there.
Do not allow Ole and the board to tell you that Fred and Scott are our future in CM or you're settling for mediocrity and lowering standards.
Funny how we don’t have the squad to beat small teams and no manager can do best but against top opposition we look perfectly challenging.
Shows how vital McTominay is for us now. Pereira is such a huge step down. Getting one more competent CM that can be part of a 4-man CM rotation is absolutely necessary.
For the Ole Out brigade (who are so very quiet today), they need to realize that Ole and the club have a plan, and a tactical identity that they are trying to install. It’s very difficult to see when you are playing Pereira, Lingard and Fred as your midfield 3. When it’s McT, Fred and Pogba, I believe the team will look very different.
These are young kids. We forget that they dont show the consistency of 25-30 year olds. Patience.
Very good win against a very good side managed by a top manager who surely had a point to prove. However until we can make a consistent run and cut out the dropping of unnecessary points against weak teams I remain unconvinced, we beat a good team and have generally played well against the top sides but we need consistency to climb up the league.
He should also push the board to get him at least another midfielder as we can't finish the season with just three first team midfielders.
He should also push the board to get him at least another midfielder as we can't finish the season with just three first team midfielders.
And has never won a single trophy (I’ll also keep repeating this).
Outstanding. Not out of the woods yet though. Need to go on a bit of a run to silence the critics.
Alot of talk and discussion, about giving Ole the time and resources (rightly so) to build his own team like the previous managers have had a chance. Hes clearly been landed with a woeful squad which is a thin as it is weak. Many of them overpaid brats with questionable attitudes who think theyve made it already. He has some serious work to do to make it a feared top side again.. Wether under Woodward/Glazers he/anyone can do that, is another discussion completely..
It got me thinking though, about when SAF took over from Atkinson, and the team he inherited. About the state that team was in , how long it took the great man to finally get it right, and the difference between the initial and resulting successful team..
So, out of curiosity, i thought id have a quick look back at the lineups of:
a) Fergie's first game, away to Oxford, 8/11/86,
b) Fergie's first trophy winning team, vs Palace, FA cup, 17/5/90
c) Fergie's first League trophy team, vs Sheffield Wed, 10/4/93
Not really attempting to prove anything, just thought it would be interesting to see the squad progression SAF went through, that we are hoping to see Ole do the same.. Just some food for thought really
Ive highlighted the players that featured in the previous listed team
A - Oxford vs Mufc, First Division, 8/11/1986
Chris Turner, Mike Duxbury, Arthur Albiston, Kevin Moran, Paul McGrath, Graeme Hogg, Clayton Blackmore, Remi Moses, Frank Stapleton, Peter Davenport, Peter Barnes, Jesper Olsen.
(Although didnt play this day, Strachan, Whiteside, & Robson featured a fair bit in this season also)
roughly 3.5 years later -
B - mufc vs Crystal Palace, FA cup final, 17/5/90
Les Sealey, Paul Ince, Lee Martin, Steve Bruce, Mike Phelan, Gary Pallister, Bryan Robson, Brian McClair, Mark Hughes, Danny Wallace.
(Neil Webb, Jim Leighton, Clayton Blackmore, Russell Beardsmore, viv anderson & mike duxbury also played a fair bit this season)
almost 3 years later -
C - Mufc vs Sheffield Wed, Premier League, 10/4/93
Peter Schmeichel, Denis Irwin, Paul Parker, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Lee Sharpe, Eric Cantona, Paul Ince, Brian McClair, Mark Hughes, Ryan Giggs, Bryan Robson
(Kanchelskis played a significant part in this squad also)
And i know this is over almost 7 years in total which is quite a long time, but we can see a clear effect within the first 2 seasons.
So we can see 3 seasons after SAF took over, his FA cup winning team was pretty far off from what he started with, on that list. Only a small handful of players remained from his initial team. And by the time he finally put together a team worthy of the PL 3 seasons again after that, the only player that remained from his first day was Captain Marvel himself, Robson. (no brainer) We can see by 93, quite a few of the 1990 cup winning squad were also still there, so he felt he was pretty much more than half way there in 90..
I suppose it all about keeping the right players best for the club about, and eradicating any toxic players/ deadwood, or simply players that although good, may be bad for the culture. (fergie def had this problem at the beginning trying to get rid of the drinking culture that was there. Made hard decisions and moved some good players on). I think Ole needs to do the same with the current squad. clear out anyone with the wrong attitude and has a bad influence on other members of the squad. As we know we dont have many fighters and grafters in the team, an majority of them just quit when the going gets tough, and are just happy to get paid.
All that said, it think this monumental effort on the current squad will fall to someone other than Ole in the near future. And I absolutely do not trust Woodward to do it right.
*One other thing i noticed looking through the matches of these seasons, the starting 11 very rarely changed throughout the season. with maybe one sub per game (usually same person).. no nonsense back then. no get rested, just get out and play every week
It got me thinking though, about when SAF took over from Atkinson, and the team he inherited. About the state that team was in , how long it took the great man to finally get it right, and the difference between the initial and resulting successful team..
So, out of curiosity, i thought id have a quick look back at the lineups of:
a) Fergie's first game, away to Oxford, 8/11/86,
b) Fergie's first trophy winning team, vs Palace, FA cup, 17/5/90
c) Fergie's first League trophy team, vs Sheffield Wed, 10/4/93
Not really attempting to prove anything, just thought it would be interesting to see the squad progression SAF went through, that we are hoping to see Ole do the same.. Just some food for thought really
Ive highlighted the players that featured in the previous listed team
A - Oxford vs Mufc, First Division, 8/11/1986
Chris Turner, Mike Duxbury, Arthur Albiston, Kevin Moran, Paul McGrath, Graeme Hogg, Clayton Blackmore, Remi Moses, Frank Stapleton, Peter Davenport, Peter Barnes, Jesper Olsen.
(Although didnt play this day, Strachan, Whiteside, & Robson featured a fair bit in this season also)
roughly 3.5 years later -
B - mufc vs Crystal Palace, FA cup final, 17/5/90
Les Sealey, Paul Ince, Lee Martin, Steve Bruce, Mike Phelan, Gary Pallister, Bryan Robson, Brian McClair, Mark Hughes, Danny Wallace.
(Neil Webb, Jim Leighton, Clayton Blackmore, Russell Beardsmore, viv anderson & mike duxbury also played a fair bit this season)
almost 3 years later -
C - Mufc vs Sheffield Wed, Premier League, 10/4/93
Peter Schmeichel, Denis Irwin, Paul Parker, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Lee Sharpe, Eric Cantona, Paul Ince, Brian McClair, Mark Hughes, Ryan Giggs, Bryan Robson
(Kanchelskis played a significant part in this squad also)
And i know this is over almost 7 years in total which is quite a long time, but we can see a clear effect within the first 2 seasons.
So we can see 3 seasons after SAF took over, his FA cup winning team was pretty far off from what he started with, on that list. Only a small handful of players remained from his initial team. And by the time he finally put together a team worthy of the PL 3 seasons again after that, the only player that remained from his first day was Captain Marvel himself, Robson. (no brainer) We can see by 93, quite a few of the 1990 cup winning squad were also still there, so he felt he was pretty much more than half way there in 90..
I suppose it all about keeping the right players best for the club about, and eradicating any toxic players/ deadwood, or simply players that although good, may be bad for the culture. (fergie def had this problem at the beginning trying to get rid of the drinking culture that was there. Made hard decisions and moved some good players on). I think Ole needs to do the same with the current squad. clear out anyone with the wrong attitude and has a bad influence on other members of the squad. As we know we dont have many fighters and grafters in the team, an majority of them just quit when the going gets tough, and are just happy to get paid.
All that said, it think this monumental effort on the current squad will fall to someone other than Ole in the near future. And I absolutely do not trust Woodward to do it right.
*One other thing i noticed looking through the matches of these seasons, the starting 11 very rarely changed throughout the season. with maybe one sub per game (usually same person).. no nonsense back then. no get rested, just get out and play every week
I'm not worried about the City game, I'm more interested in the run after that: Everton(H), Watford(A), Newcastle(H), Burnley(A), Arsenal(A). That's 15 very winnable points right there.
I dont think we will get top 4. If we get it, I'm all for giving Ole another year. If he doesnt manage it he needs to be sacked. A top 4 finish should be the minimum.
If we show clear signs of progression after gutting our wagebill and reducing the average age of our squad, I am all for it. We have dropped points this year due to our relative inexperience and an injury ravaged squad. I'd love to see what Ole can do with another three signings and a bit more luck.
I think most people will choose to enjoy a good win and a good performance. You and your high standards can do what you like.
Fred i agree on, hes 26 and wont improve very much, but McTomminay is only 22 and most CM's dont peak until they are around 25-27. If he keeps improving hes going to be really good
That goes without saying. The question is if Ole and his team get the best out of our squad. Its clear as daylight that our biggest problem is that we only have three quality midfielders. He will be judged again when Pogba is back because then there is no excuses any longer.
Yesterday Ole showed tactical awareness (or luck) because he fielded six high energy players in front of our defense. All of them worked their socks off in order to put pressure on the ball holder. Good decision.
Next step is to find the solution how to brake down teams who prefer to defend and only counter against us. When I see this Ole has me totally onboard. He will probably stay until the season ends so let’s wait and see before making our final judgement.
The reality of true perspective. Thus far Solskjaer has not come up with anything in the consistency department. A good record vs top five is not enough to keep a manager at this club LVG had the best record against the top six since SAF and he still underachieved.
It is more profitable for us to bully small teams and be inconsistent against the bigger opposition given the functionality of the league. The table doesn't lie at the end of the day we are performing like a low mid table side if Sheff Wed / Arsenal win their next fixtures we will hovering around 10th again.
I disagree with people being negative after a win like yesterday. I don't think he's the right manager for us but if your going to criticize him for doing bad you have to be able to give him credit where it's due, as simple as. I thought we would get embarrassed but he and the team did well to get a win there. On paper Spurs had the better team and the better manager but we came out winners.
If I could see more of that I would change my mind on him but the amount of draws and losses against shit teams outweighs any positives. I don't think he'll ever land us a top 4 finish. He hasn't proved he can go on a consistent run of wins except when he had just arrived. Form from March until now have been disastrous.
If I could see more of that I would change my mind on him but the amount of draws and losses against shit teams outweighs any positives. I don't think he'll ever land us a top 4 finish. He hasn't proved he can go on a consistent run of wins except when he had just arrived. Form from March until now have been disastrous.
I cannot believe so called Utd fans who do not realise that we are rebuilding after a sustained period of poor transfer windows. Teams that are successful and win the Premier League have a rough average age of 26/27 years old. Even the great "young teams" that Utd had in the Fergie era had this average age. So we had some older players (over 30) who set the culture, some players in their prime (25-30) who you could be assured of 7/10 virtually every game and then some younger players (under 25)
At the moment due to really poor long term planning by the club and even worse decisions by a series of managers, if you look at our squad right now where are the senior and prime age players who are Utd quality? They simply are not there - certainly not a strong group of 5-8 players who form the backbone of our team! I would argue our best two players right now are 22 year olds - Rashford and McT. The only player in their prime who we have whom I would definitely say is now again producing the goods week on week is de Gea.
So we have huge pressure on very young shoulders and I think Ole is doing a great job with that group. It might be difficult for some fans but we need to encourage our young lads, give Ole some time and hope that from now on the future transfer windows will be as good as last summers or better....
At the moment due to really poor long term planning by the club and even worse decisions by a series of managers, if you look at our squad right now where are the senior and prime age players who are Utd quality? They simply are not there - certainly not a strong group of 5-8 players who form the backbone of our team! I would argue our best two players right now are 22 year olds - Rashford and McT. The only player in their prime who we have whom I would definitely say is now again producing the goods week on week is de Gea.
So we have huge pressure on very young shoulders and I think Ole is doing a great job with that group. It might be difficult for some fans but we need to encourage our young lads, give Ole some time and hope that from now on the future transfer windows will be as good as last summers or better....
We definitely need to be more wary of the Everton game now that Silva has gone,particularly if they don't come and attack us.
Ljungberg's time as a caretaker might be more brief than he thought if there are too many showings like the Brighton game. They could have Pochettino in charge by them if things continue.
If he takes another job in the PL this season he loses his 24 million pound severance package. I doubt the stingy Arsenal board would pay that kind of money and i also doubt Poch would go there (he did love Spurs after all). Not saying Emery did a terrific job at Arsenal, but their problems clearly went beyond him. There is something seriously wrong with that club
I think even under Fergie, we never had favorable odd on beating them away.
If Fred can continue yesterday's performance or close to, that's good enough for any big team.
100%. People believe one good result changes everything yet forget the struggles in the past. Nothing will change under Ole, we will have the odd good game but look terrible for most parts and struggle mid table
have we at all come to a relative consensus on what it is that has changed after the PSG game when we looked like title challengers tbf and had a general feel-good attitude that was quite visible in every game which was too long to just be a bounce? It seems that being given the full time job was when it started sometime in March.
That's a Norwegian national newspaper's sports section.
What if he signs another 3-4 really good players. Nothing will still change??
That's quality, entertainment wise. They must read the Caf to come up with those signsThat's a Norwegian national newspaper's sports section.
Don’t give up on Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, say Manchester United players
Oh boy. This better be true. Haaland and a CM and we're pretty much in the CL race. Dare I mention an unsettled Sancho?
Oh boy. This better be true. Haaland and a CM and we're pretty much in the CL race. Dare I mention an unsettled Sancho?
My body is ready
This post from 29th of January 2018 says so much about how much this squad needed to be rebuilt, and how much work it is. To me it seems like one transfer window would not be enough.....
Feck off
Why should we believe this talk, though?
Granted, if we DO sign say Haaland and one other in January, I concede we will be in good shape to contend to top 4 providing we can put together something resembling consistency. In that situation, I will rethink my stance and consider the possibility that there is actually a plan and the board are financially invested in supporting this plan.
Granted, if we DO sign say Haaland and one other in January, I concede we will be in good shape to contend to top 4 providing we can put together something resembling consistency. In that situation, I will rethink my stance and consider the possibility that there is actually a plan and the board are financially invested in supporting this plan.
Fair play to you
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