Exactly. Now I'm going to bed @Aquire Me
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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That's a fair point, but would you put our 'game raising' down to the players or the manager? For me, it has to be the players, which tells a story in itself.
Raising our game when faced with the bigger teams was an equally common occurrence under Jose and LVG too. It's against the smaller teams who offer little attacking intent that we struggle.
That is the perfect example of it being an opinion. You think that, others do not, therefore it is your opinion.
Are you really trying to say that the only true fans are those who want Ole out?
Fair fecks. And I don't begrudge it.
Trouble is (and I'm not saying this is equivalent) there are a lot of managers of mid-table teams who have a great record against the top 6. It's almost the identifying definition of a West Ham, or a Wigan, or a Wolves, or any side managed by Big Sam in the 00s... It doesn't make them good sides, or good managers, if anything it defines them even stricter as game raising also rans, who don't have any consistency. The measure of a great, title challenging side is not their record against the top 6 (unless they're in a real fight to the death, and they're the deciding factors) its the consistency of their results against everyone else..particularly at home....
Both LVG and Jose had great records against the top 6... yet no one would say that justified their tenures! They failed because they were horrifically inconsistent in all the other games, against also-ran teams that didn't open up to them, or let them play.
Ole isn't doing anything out of the ordinary by over-achieving in these big games. If anything he's scoring a lot less than the equvalent LVGs sides did... But he's still massively under-performing in all the other games. The same other games that actually mattered. The ones that actually got LVG and Jose sacked.... Jose beat Juve away at the lowest point of his reign... Did that prove anything? No.
We need a lot more than a rousing home performance against a quasi-rival who've also been shite lately, which we won with a pentaly, to take any genuine cocksure confidence from games like this. It just will. Sorry.
I want to see him replaced but, have to credit him for the performances he is able to get out of the team against the better teams. It obviously sets up well for what he is trying to do, which is play more on the break but, at the same time it also requires him making sure we are setup well to nullify the better teams, which he has done rather well for the most part.
Also, no doubt we've been unlucky as heck with the injuries. A threadbare squad in terms of quality means it's hard to for him to get results against the weaker teams where we have the onus to create. Today showed that McT/Fred provide a great deal of stability and a decent amount of quality as well. Having McTomminay injured the 2 previous league games was a huge miss and no Pogba either to fallback on. We had to rely on Jones starting with Perreira in midfield and then next game with Perreira in midfield again. Hard to win games when we can't control midfield.
Despite that, one thing that can't be denied is how poorly Ole manages games in the ebb and flow of a game. Like when teams get on top of us, he tends to react too late and his subs, the most obvious ones take far too long. Those are not things that are going to change because he has been managing for a long enough time. If he hasn't figured out that part by now then he isn't going to ever.
Also, no doubt we've been unlucky as heck with the injuries. A threadbare squad in terms of quality means it's hard to for him to get results against the weaker teams where we have the onus to create. Today showed that McT/Fred provide a great deal of stability and a decent amount of quality as well. Having McTomminay injured the 2 previous league games was a huge miss and no Pogba either to fallback on. We had to rely on Jones starting with Perreira in midfield and then next game with Perreira in midfield again. Hard to win games when we can't control midfield.
Despite that, one thing that can't be denied is how poorly Ole manages games in the ebb and flow of a game. Like when teams get on top of us, he tends to react too late and his subs, the most obvious ones take far too long. Those are not things that are going to change because he has been managing for a long enough time. If he hasn't figured out that part by now then he isn't going to ever.
My precious......
Thing is though, both LVG and Mourinho had that inconsistency with teams full of established stars. They're no where near in the same bracket as Ole where he has decided to invest and trust in youth who will make mistakes and lose us points (see williams on the weekend).
Average age of the front six today was something like 23 yeras old. I dont expect consistency from that group of players so going up and down is expected. I think it needs to be reiterated again that the class of 92 walked into established teams of great players. They were immediately performed because they had Keane, Cantona, Schmeichael, Irwin, Giggs etc around them. Ole doesn't have that same luxury so it will be one or two years before those players are capable of replicating solid teams of the past.
Why are you laughing. Maybe I didn't explain myself properly
Sorry bro. I misunderstood you by not reading the whole text.
Fair enough, agree with some of that but how do you explain the inconsistency of Mo and LVG with experienced, full internationals players.
Ole's teams have plenty of kids this season (yes due injury).
I'm happy for him but there's no doubt that he's not good enough for us. One game does not change that. Are people actually saying we should be fickle and flip flop game by game.
Van Gaal also did well against the big teams. Does that mean we should've kept him too?
Van Gaal also did well against the big teams. Does that mean we should've kept him too?
Deserves credit for tonight, not just the result but more for the selection of Greenwood
I think that Ole and his team got their tactical approach spot on. Every player played in their preferred position. Well balanced team. More synchronized then I have seen before. We passed the ball faster and with more accuracy, better movements up front.
This will give Ole some space to breath and hopefully this Is the platform to take us forward.
This will give Ole some space to breath and hopefully this Is the platform to take us forward.
Don’t you remember Chelsea in the league cup. It’s like we won the bloody cup.
Nor is it an ambition of mine. Theres more to life than pats on the back on redcafe
If McTominay had played against Sheffield United and Villa we'd have won both games. Instead both teams strolled through our midfield scoring 5 goals over the 2 games.
It can't be understated how much injuries and lack of any squad depth to cover them has affected us this season. Until this is rectified we simply won't be consistent. That's just the way it is.
It can't be understated how much injuries and lack of any squad depth to cover them has affected us this season. Until this is rectified we simply won't be consistent. That's just the way it is.
We were on quite a good run of form until McTominay got injured and left our midfield wide open for 2 games.
The man clearly isn't good enough and him beating a man who was clearly not good enough doesn't change that.
Please make peace with the fact that this is a rebuild. Should have been done years ago. A young and light team like this will be inconsistent. It will be hit and miss.
The cool thing about this type of rebuild are the talented players. They will be better and better from game to game. They will develop like others just can dream of.
I would be so fecking devastated if we went for a quick fix solution. Build a young team for the future and they can dominate for years to come.
No, but then that's also a situation of his own making, that he is somehow being absolved of? We're pretending we're in a "transition season" when in fact we only have 3 new players, 2 of whom were first teamers in their previous sides, and one of whom was a star of England's WC side, when the likes of Atletico Madrid or Bayern have signed 9 new players!....
And as you say, the class of 92 weren't expected to hold up the first XI... and thats part of the reason they were integrated so well... So is it actually automatically such a good thing for Ole to be integrating these players in frustratingly incompetent losing sides? Does that actually benefit them? Or is it merely just a good excuse for why we're a bit shit!?
See above. The West Ham team that produced Lampard, Ferdinand and Cole were also ideologically heavy on youth promotion... Man Utd aren't an entirely unique team in that regard. What makes us so special, is that we've managed to win big trophies with sides built on youth.... But if we aren't doing that...and all we're doing is losing to Bournmouth away with a bunch of our own kids... Does that makes us the legendary Manchester United? Or does it just makes us West Ham?... Or Southhampton?... Or Feyenoord.... Or Anderlecth?....etc, etc, etc.
I love Ole as much as the next guy...But when someone says "hey, we've tried two big managers, why not try doing it the United way!?".... What about that is actually that different than Ferguson appointing Moyes in 2013, and us all slavishly sticking by that stupid fecking idea out of pure ideological loyalty, for as long as humanly possible, because he played Januzaj for a bit!?... Until it just became to obvious that it wasn't working. And by the time we realised, it was too late to enact any real, significant change?
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Feckign missed the game. Sounds like it was a very good game. I'm still Ole in but was almost about to push the exit button last Sunday. I will give him more time for now .
Not too shabby for a relegation/championship manager.
Paper thin squad and reduced quality in the first team that is a symptom of the rebuild so getting results is going to be difficult, especially if we pick up injuries, but he’s the best man for this current chapter of the Manchester United story.
The squad is disgracefully bad.
It's unacceptable how we went into this season so thin in so many areas and missing so much quality. We were basically hoping to go all season without any injuries. As little as 1 or 2 injuries and we're in big trouble.
It's unacceptable how we went into this season so thin in so many areas and missing so much quality. We were basically hoping to go all season without any injuries. As little as 1 or 2 injuries and we're in big trouble.
I dont absolve him of it, but I think that context needs to be applied. We may only have 3 new players, but we're promoting previous bench players to leading roles in the team while nearly half our old first team have either been sold or sent to the scrap heap. Further, 2 of our 5 best players
I also don't particularly think either of the Madrids or Bayern have purchased particularly well, rather they play in limp leagues where inconsistency can be papered over by the inequality between the top and bottom of the league. I believe that aside from a striker, United have taken the route of not just buying for the sake of it, but rather investing in the right players and providing the existing playing staff with the opportunity to prove themsevles which is exactly what Sir Alex did with the class of 92. You'd be foolish to hold the opinion that if those players didn't perform in that season, he wouldnt have replaced them.
Huge win for him tonight, and the knee-jerk reaction to the win from fanbase and board will, I imagine, ensure we miss out on Pochettino.
Glad for the win but can't say I'm convinced.
He just has this habit of delaying the inevitable imo. And I believe he'll be sacked next season while Arsenal employ a proper manager - quite possibly Pochettino.
Still, good luck to him.
Glad for the win but can't say I'm convinced.
He just has this habit of delaying the inevitable imo. And I believe he'll be sacked next season while Arsenal employ a proper manager - quite possibly Pochettino.
Still, good luck to him.
But he's been doing this all season, raising our game against the big sides that attack us. It's basically LVG all over again. Great win tonight obviously, but it doesn't change anything for me, still think he's out his depth and needs replacing unless he starts showing some genuine consistency and relying less on individual brilliance.
You were right. This is Lingard and Jones thread all over again. One good game in 10 and this place is swarmed by "top reds" with "feck you all doubters" posts.
This is PSG all over again and eventually we'll reap what we sow.
The standards are so low, that a win at home against Tottenham Hotspurs is seen as a season defining moment
5 wins all in the league but hey we performed against the big boys.
Small time Micky mouse mentality
There are transitions and transitions. This one requires a mass exodus and gradual replacement. He clearly hasn't the clout to demand the cash that will allow these replacements to arrive en masse. We're not JUST losing to Bournemouth, we've got a scattering of good performances in there, certainly more exciting games than I've seen in recent times, more goals, more ambition, more mistakes maybe but certainly progress of a sort. And the young guys are central to the whole thing. Look, it's not all strawberries and cream but there's enough in there to give me some hope. Even one real, shrewd addition in January in the right area could give us a proper push. It's not Moyes. Or LVG, or Jose. I've got more from the glimpses of hope this season than anything I've seen in a while.
Is that the word right word though? That’s not how I recall it. And yes, we do deserve to have Ole. I’m pretty sure roughly half of the fans are happy with him while the other half want him gone tonight. As long as Woody believes in him, he will keep his job, regardless of what random fans on RedCafe think.
We are very shit against shit teams. Something tells me that with better players we could be on to something because the performances against big teams have been good. Poch wouldn't be my first choice, i would prefer someone like Ten Hag, Nagelsmann or Rose. So i would rather give Ole the January transfer window and evaluate at the end of the season.
Needless to say my opinion keeps changing after every game but I really want Ole to succeed.
Needless to say my opinion keeps changing after every game but I really want Ole to succeed.
We need to hire Poch as his assistent. Ole takes care of games against top 6 plus knockout games. Against the lesser teams he takes a back seat and lets Poch dictate the tactics.
Didn't we beat Brighton and one of the Europa teams last month?
A great result, and well-deserved by Ole, but the fact is that we didn't create much more than they did. It feels like we did because Rashford's strikes from distance were on target, but our chance-creation still sucks. And if we don't create more than our opposition then our results will vary from amazing to crappy - which is exactly what we are experiencing.
Here's the question: is Chelsea's front six better man-for-man than ours? I'm not sure it is. But their chance-creation is much better. I'd hate to credit that to Lampard - can't stand him - but they're doing something better than we are.
Here's the question: is Chelsea's front six better man-for-man than ours? I'm not sure it is. But their chance-creation is much better. I'd hate to credit that to Lampard - can't stand him - but they're doing something better than we are.
Better than what we've had available this season? Yes it is. They also have options to change things around (Pedro, Giroud, Batshuayi, Hudson Odoi, Barkley) which we don't.
Good performance, good win but let's not pretend it's anything else than delaying an inevitable. He won't be here next season if we have even a tiny bit of brain in our board.
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