Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Mainoldo said:
How embarrassing!!
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What's embarrassing is your feeble attempts at claiming to "support" the club.

Try explain to me the difference between the Sheff Utd & Villa game vs the Spurs?

Difference is the players putting in a performance.

Little else Ole done different.

You can try look for a victim to blame but reality is its our utterly s*it squad, something that Ole inherited, not created.
 
Keefy18 said:
What's embarrassing is your feeble attempts at claiming to "support" the club.

Try explain to me the difference between the Sheff Utd & Villa game vs the Spurs?

Difference is the players putting in a performance.

Little else Ole done different.

You can try look for a victim to blame but reality is its our utterly s*it squad, something that Ole inherited, not created.
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Whilst you claim to support the club by blaming the ‘players’ for everything..

I see the logic. So something is to blame. We just have a difference of opinion on what that is.

Only difference is one opinion makes you less of a supporter?
 
I understand the frustration about Solskjær well; United have some of Premier League's most expensive football players, but are nowhere near the point of looking like a championship candidate - or just a team that knows how they would like to play football. Solskjær's comments on attacking football, "if we lead by one, we go to get ahead by two," sound strange when he replaces Anthony Martial for Axel Tuanzebe as soon as we get at 3-2 against Sheffield.

And the Norwegian's explanations in the press sound more and more like David Moyes. Also read: David Moyes and the Bad Excuses.

If you consider that Mauricio Pochettino is free in the market, it's no surprise that Twitter and Facebook are full with "OleOut" hashtags. Still, I am wondering about the missing loyalty to Solskjaer. I know that the messages - which are often written in a rather harsh tone - are written in moments of United defeat, powerlessness and frustration. But that doesn't change the fact that the shouts about sacking Solskjær reveal both naivety (sorry) and short-term memory. Why should Pochettino, or another manager, be able to do what neither David Moyes, Louis van Gaal, Jose Mourinho nor Ole Gunnar Solskær have been able to do? How many managers should we fire - then hire someone else, give him a big bag of transfer money to build a new team, promise him time and patience, extend his contract and fire him less than a year later - before it's quite obviously United's problems are structural and deep and start somewhere else, than on the coach bench? How can it be overlooked that Solskjær - despite the miserable results - is in the process of building a foundation of young players, a long-term project that so many have been hoping for?
 
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Hester_manc said:
I understand the frustration about Solskjær well; United have some of Premier League's most expensive football players, but are nowhere near the point of looking like a championship candidate - or just a team that knows how they would like to play football. Solskjær's comments on attacking football, "if we lead by one, we go to get ahead by two," sounds strange when he replaces Anthony Martial for Axel Tuanzebe as soon as we get at 3-2 against Sheffield.

And the Norwegian's explanations in the press sound more and more like David Moyes. Also read: David Moyes and the Bad Excuses.

If you consider that Mauricio Pochettino is free in the market, it's no surprise that Twitter and Facebook are full with "OleOut" hashtags. Still, I am wondering about the missing loyalty to Solskjaer. I know that the messages - which are often written in a rather harsh tone - are written in moments of United defeat, powerlessness and frustration. But that doesn't change the fact that the shouts about sacking Solskjær reveal both naivety (sorry) and short-term memory. Why should Pochettino, or another manager, be able to do what neither David Moyes, Louis van Gaal, Jose Mourinho nor Ole Gunnar Solskær have been able to do? How many managers should we fire - then hire someone else, give him a big bag of transfer money to build a new team, promise him time and patience, extend his contract and fire him less than a year later - before it's quite obviously United's problems are structural and deep and start somewhere else, than on the coach bench? How can it be overlooked that Solskjær - despite the miserable results - is in the process of building a foundation of young players, a long-term project that so many have hoping for?
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How many managers did Man City fire to get their record breaking team? It’s not a case of how many it’s a case of just getting the bloody right guy.

Why is this so hard to understand?
 
Mainoldo said:
Whilst you claim to support the club by blaming the ‘players’ for everything..

I see the logic. So something is to blame. We just have a difference of opinion on what that is.

Only difference is one opinion makes you less of a supporter?
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If you want to bring logic into it, its folks like yourself who will run to the player threads to continually slate the majority of our players as "not being good enough for an elite club like United"... But then ignore that to expect Ole to work miracles with said players that aren't good enough.

Apparently he's a glorified "PE Teacher" yet his CV was better than ZZ's when he got the Real job, he'd won more then Pep when he was given the reigns at Barca and Conte had a few years but pretty much failed everywhere he went til Juve.
 
Mainoldo said:
How many managers did Man City fire to get their record breaking team? It’s not a case of how many it’s a case of just getting the bloody right guy.

Why is this so hard to understand?
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No it's not.

It's having all levels of the club functioning correctly.

From board, to scouting, the manager and players.
 
Wumminator said:
For some football is all about statistics and history. Ole come from a smaller league so he must be bad. That is all there is to their feelings.
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It's because Ole isn't a "big name" manager who's gone out and bought a load if Galacticos and put us top of the league straight away.

IMO, Ole is the right manager at this time because he puts the club before his personal ambition. No other manager would do that.
 
Mainoldo said:
How many managers did Man City fire to get their record breaking team? It’s not a case of how many it’s a case of just getting the bloody right guy.

Why is this so hard to understand?
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We are not City. But City did't just change the managers. They also changed part of the structure of the club.
It just seems naive if we only think the club will get better if we keep firing and hiring managers. Could the problems be somewhere else than with the manager? After all, not all bad managers we have had at the club. Some of them have won a part in their careers. I think the problems lie deeper than with a manager.
 
Mainoldo said:
How many managers did Man City fire to get their record breaking team? It’s not a case of how many it’s a case of just getting the bloody right guy.

Why is this so hard to understand?
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The right guy could still come at the wrong time, how many `could have, would have, should haves` are not known today because of that .. often in football it is coincidence if you may, a lottery winners game. As with rest of world history it is still being written by those who won, and to win you have to get a proper chance and then take it when you get it `cause that`s your legacy. To get a proper chance you have to win trust, best shown by winning games. To win trust you also have to manipulate the environment to make them believe in you (we all do it one way or another). But since football are (with all respect) a circus (as it is meant to entertain) managers and players today are like ancient gladiators of old sacrificed on the altar of nothingness or given eternal life at Mount Olympus with the Gods.

Would be fun to see Pep with say Ole`s Cardiff. I am sure he would not have done very well. Pep will always have that stamp as being a big team money manager, and he is NOT a proven championship manager. But that`s why we love the game also, as there are no definite rights and or wrongs

Enjoy !
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Why should we believe this talk, though?

Granted, if we DO sign say Haaland and one other in January, I concede we will be in good shape to contend to top 4 providing we can put together something resembling consistency. In that situation, I will rethink my stance and consider the possibility that there is actually a plan and the board are financially invested in supporting this plan.
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I believe Ole has a plan but, and it's a big but, I really do wonder whether Ed/the board will have the balls to back him fully.
 
The big question is which version of Ole is going to show up at The Etihad tomorrow.

Make no mistake this is his biggest test of the season so far and might be an indicator of what approach we could see away to the top six for the rest of the season.

One thing you can say about City is that they are not a team to sit back,so at least we will get space in behind them a few times.
 
Who thinks he’s going 5 at the back again?

I’d guess De Gea, Lindelof, Maguire, Axel, AWB, McT, Fred, Shaw, Lingard, Martial, Rashford.
 
Caliban said:
The right guy could still come at the wrong time, how many `could have, would have, should haves` are not known today because of that .. often in football it is coincidence if you may, a lottery winners game. As with rest of world history it is still being written by those who won, and to win you have to get a proper chance and then take it when you get it `cause that`s your legacy. To get a proper chance you have to win trust, best shown by winning games. To win trust you also have to manipulate the environment to make them believe in you (we all do it one way or another). But since football are (with all respect) a circus (as it is meant to entertain) managers and players today are like ancient gladiators of old sacrificed on the altar of nothingness or given eternal life at Mount Olympus with the Gods.

Would be fun to see Pep with say Ole`s Cardiff. I am sure he would not have done very well. Pep will always have that stamp as being a big team money manager, and he is NOT a proven championship manager. But that`s why we love the game also, as there are no definite rights and or wrongs

Enjoy !
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Pep would never manage Cardiff the Same way RVP would never play for Cardiff. There’s levels. But for some reason we are handing out apprenticeships.
 
Keefy18 said:
No it's not.

It's having all levels of the club functioning correctly.

From board, to scouting, the manager and players.
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Yep, talking crap as usual. What scouting? Who we looking for Justin Kliuvert? It’s not rocket science at the top level all of the transfer forum could lend a helping hand. We just need a good coach.
 
I'm a firm "Ole out" but loved that he said we are still a bigger club than City and also that we will try to compete no matter what their financial muscle equates to. He could have easily dodged the question and come up with some diplomatic hogwash.
 
Mainoldo said:
How many managers did Man City fire to get their record breaking team? It’s not a case of how many it’s a case of just getting the bloody right guy.

Why is this so hard to understand?
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Well, both Mancini and then Pellegrini won the league with them in 2011/12 and then 2013/14. No doubt Pep has done better, but there are also loads of talk now about players getting fatigued from his intense style, both as a manger and on the pitch Link, and it seems he only stays in one club 3-4 years before he finds a new challenge. So hes a bit like Jose in that sense

If we had Pep and Jose was managing City in 2017/18, i am pretty sure the league would have ended the same way. We were(are) so far behind that City squad in terms of quality and depth that it was impossible to catch up.

They (and Liverpool)'s starting XI this season has had an average age of 27 years, 59 days, thats the perfect age if you want trophies but it also means a rebuild is only a couple of years away. Key players like Aguero(31) Silva(33) and KDB(28) will start to decline very soon and they have not really managed to replace Kompany either despite having all the money in the world

Pep (like Jose) brings short term success, but hes not the one for long term stability and i am very curious to see what happens when Pep (and Klopp) leaves their respective clubs. If they just hand over an ageing squad the next manager is going to have their work cut for them. If Pep leaves them this season, how will he be perceived in the future?
 
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croadyman said:
The big question is which version of Ole is going to show up at The Etihad tomorrow.

Make no mistake this is his biggest test of the season so far and might be an indicator of what approach we could see away to the top six for the rest of the season.

One thing you can say about City is that they are not a team to sit back,so at least we will get space in behind them a few times.
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I don’t think that’s a question. He seems to be quite consistent. Unlike our team.
If Fred delivers again, we may have a chance.
 
Bobcat said:
Well, both Mancini and then Pellegrini won the league with them in 2011/12 and then 2013/14. No doubt Pep has done better, but there are also loads of talk now about players getting fatigued from his intense style, both as a manger and on the pitch Link, and it seems he only stays in one club 3-4 years before he finds a new challenge. So hes a bit like Jose in that sense

If we had Pep and Jose was managing City in 2017/18, i am pretty sure the league would have ended the same way. We were(are) so far behind that City squad in terms of quality and depth that it was impossible to catch up.

They (and Liverpool)'s starting XI this season has had an average age of 27 years, 59 days, thats the perfect age if you want trophies but it also means a rebuild is only a couple of years away. Key players like Aguero(31) Silva(33) and KDB(28) will start to decline very soon and they have not really managed to replace Kompany either despite having all the money in the world

Pep (like Jose) brings short term success, but hes not the one for long term stability and i am very curious to see what happens when Pep (and Klopp) leaves their respective clubs. If they just hand over an ageing squad the next manager is going to have their work cut for them. If Pep leaves them this season, how will he be perceived in the future?
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If we had Pep and City had Jose it would not have ended the sameway. Managers are different for a reason. KDB gets shipped out for Jose but turned into a CM by Pep for a reason. There was about £30m difference in financial muscle between the two you telling me Pep needs the extra 30£m at United to beat Jose? No he does not.

Yes the players might be fatigued but guess what Pep will leave and they will replace him adequately.
 
Mainoldo said:
If we had Pep and City had Jose it would not have ended the sameway. Managers are different for a reason. KDB gets shipped out for Jose but turned into a CM by Pep for a reason. There was about £30m difference in financial muscle between the two you telling me Pep needs the extra 30£m at United to beat Jose? No he does not.

Yes the players might be fatigued but guess what Pep will leave and they will replace him adequately.
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They had a much better starting point. Not going to claim Jose did to well in the market with is, but do you honestly think we would have walked the league if Pep was here instead of Jose?
 
Mainoldo said:
Yep, talking crap as usual. What scouting? Who we looking for Justin Kliuvert? It’s not rocket science at the top level all of the transfer forum could lend a helping hand. We just need a good coach.
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Oh yeah cause Klopp was doing such a wonderful job at Liverpool pre Edwards appointment.

If you look at any of the best ran clubs in the country and their scouting is superb. It's absolutely vital to a successful club.

When City improved their scouting successful followed. When Liverpool got Edwards and sorted their scouting and transfers out and bought VVD, Allison and off loaded some players with bad attitudes, success followed.

Hell, when Fergie was in his pomp his scouting of players was imperative to the success.

You don't win trophies by scouting crap players for god sake.

It's simply common sense.

All layers of the club must function for it to be successful over a period of time.

I'll give you another example, Leicester City.

Win the league and completely rebuild their side again over a 2-3 year period to then challenge for the title again this season.

But sure I'm just making s*it up right, it's all a figment of my imagination and all we need is to stick with your archaic mentality of getting one lad like Ferguson to do everything.
 
Sterling Archer said:
Does this mean you've finally changed your stance on the competence of Ed Woodward?
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I'm still somewhere in the middle. It depends on the point raised surely?

He's done a lot of work that folks don't care to acknowledge in the last 6 years.

Whatever way its spun it isn't all on him but his time is running out you'd like to think.

Folks piss n moan about our commercial activities but without them it wouldn't of supported the financial needs of the team.

There's clear and obvious failures at all levels within MUFC the last decade or so.

I'd be happy with a complete club reset but as I argued all summer long, that is extremely unlikely any time soon.
 
croadyman said:
The big question is which version of Ole is going to show up at The Etihad tomorrow.

Make no mistake this is his biggest test of the season so far and might be an indicator of what approach we could see away to the top six for the rest of the season.

One thing you can say about City is that they are not a team to sit back,so at least we will get space in behind them a few times.
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On the contrary, I believe tonight will be a free hit. Lose and everyone expects it. Draw and it's "creditable", win and it's a stupendous show. Also, Ole has routinely excelled in the big games. Barring Arsenal and City at the back-end of last season during our horror run, he's not lost. Beaten Spurs and Chelsea multiple times, beaten Arsenal away and then drawn this season, beaten Leicester multiple times... In most of these games, Ole has been spot-on with his setup and tactics and the team has been pumped-up and delivered as per his demands. In contrast though, we have struggled against teams that sit deep and park the bus. Our lack of creative spark in possession hurts us badly in these games and we typically struggle in those.

So no, the derby is a huge game and could be a huge fillip for morale, for his reputation and for the dippers, sadly, but it is not his biggest test, because even the most optimistic United fan will surely admit that we'd have to play out of our skins and still have a good share of luck to get anything from the game.
 
Mainoldo said:
Pep would never manage Cardiff the Same way RVP would never play for Cardiff. There’s levels. But for some reason we are handing out apprenticeships.
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Pep would never manage Cardiff (true, he probably wouldn`t dare either and at this point why should he), but still i doubt he would have done very good if he had to. He needs the right players to get his high pressing teams flowing (who doesn`t).All managers at some point gets found out. Fergie had trouble to find out the Mourinho of mid 2000`s and had to evolve. All managers are apprentices as football is not static, and the only active manager who are not an apprentice of anybody is probably Marcelo Bielsa :cool: ..
 
croadyman said:
The big question is which version of Ole is going to show up at The Etihad tomorrow.

Make no mistake this is his biggest test of the season so far and might be an indicator of what approach we could see away to the top six for the rest of the season.

One thing you can say about City is that they are not a team to sit back,so at least we will get space in behind them a few times.
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Unless we get trounced 5-0 I don't think this game should go against Ole if we do lose. Playing away from home, against a better manager, against a better team isn't the benchmark (at this minute in time) for Ole to be judged on. Although I can still see people calling for his head if we lose by the odd goal which would be completely unfair.

Now against Everton, Watford, Newcastle and Burnley that's a different kettle of fish. These are the games he should be judged on. All winnable games so the ball is definitely in his court.
 
Ole is a genius. I've never seen City get torn apart in their own backyard like this.
 
We have the best counter attacking personnel in the league. This isnt a championship level team. With better possession coaching we should be going places
 
Bunch of utter clowns on here!

So is he still a clueless PE Teacher now?
 
If the scoreline stays something like this, Ole will always have this week to look back on.

Shame our defence can never be trusted.
 
Even if we lose this one he's clearly doing a lot of things right and with a decent transfer-window we'll be going places.
 
Can we just admit that we do well when we have anything close to a balanced XI?

Ole deserves a shot with a better squad.
Get players in in Jan. See if Pogba can be arsed again..

Give him till the end of the season.. judge him then.
 
Whatever happens in the second half Ole deserves more time IMO. This is the type of football Manchester United should be playing, we just need a bit more creativity in midfield when it comes to breaking down the smaller sides. Pogba's eternal absence hasn't helped in that regard.
 
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