Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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If he keeps that up next season, I'll be amazed.
Plenty of interim managers have had good runs during a half-season.
Fully agree
I also don't think he'll hit 90 points next season, but I don't think that's a realistic target for him either. A target of 80-85 points is what we should be looking at next year unless we have a genuinely amazing transfer window.
Putting what chances in the back of the net? We weren't creating any because we weren’t in control of the game and able to progress into West Ham’s final third.
This is the same fallacy that has people believe that the best goalscorers are those that are most clinical. Ronaldo, Messi and co score the most every season because they create, and have created for them, the most chances.
Still going to enjoy this: http://solskjaertabellen.com/
Even in terms of xG and xPts, this is very heartening:
Even in terms of xG and xPts, this is very heartening:
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Actually, the idea that it's a fallacy is a fallacy. I've addressed this issue before on this forum actually
Most top strikers finish chances at a better rate than their quality and quantity of chances would suggest.
And part of "chance creation" is having players in the right areas to pass to. Forwards are better at that than other players, ensuring that you have players to get on the end of any chance you do create is incredibly important. You'll notice in '99 we finished with 3 strikers on the pitch despite being totally incapable of getting hold of the game and imposing any kind of control. There's a reason for that and a reason why even though we joke about "striker overload" it actually works so frequently.
Tbh I don't even care anymore about the performance this season. We saw what the ideal football looked like and then we regressed after the injury crisis. Obviously we need to play well enough for top 4 but I'm not fussed about the details if we get the 3 points. People are moaning for today but we played better in other games creating gilt edged chances, missed and lost.
It's all about scraping the top 4 with other managers players (we had no right for it) and start the rebuilding job in earnest.
Tends to be, true.
Anyway, to over analyze this particular match certainly seems unnecessary. It's sandwiched between two legs against feckin' Barcelona, with us still in with a hope (of sorts). He needed to rest a number of players for this one. Our rotation options aren't that great. I see people dismissing the "but what else can he do?" argument, but it actually has some merit. What alternatives are there to using Rojo when Dalot is playing too? Ashley Young? Yeah, that would've been popular, I'm sure. Darmian? Very popular choice too, no doubt, plus he wasn't fully fit (as stated by Ole himself). Throw in a kid? Our reasonable and patient fans would surely have been very understanding if said kid went on to have a bit of a stinker.
And, yeah, unless I was dreaming we did end up winning the match. Three points is all that matters in an affair like that.
Well we played exactly like under Mourinho today. Not a coincidence is it? Hopefully he gets backing in the summer.
Think Ole is a victim of his own success at the moment. He came into the job and did so well over the first couple of months that we're now in a top four race we have no business being in. I imagine with that prospect on the table he feels compelled to trust experience and players who have done it before. If we were still nowhere near top four, I imagine we'd see more youngsters involved in preparation for next season.
But that's an important point as well. He's still assessing the squad while trying to maintain results. It's a big ask for a guy who's only been in the job four months to be discussing contract renewals and transfer target prospects for next season. I imagine he's felt overwhelmed more than once. That's just the situation and how it's panned out.
The simple fact of the matter is he isn't a miracle worker. He can't just wave his wand and make Lukaku fitter, Martial less complacent or Lingard talented. Not overnight at least. Some of that is purely on the players or those who brought in or retained those players before Ole's arrival. Our squad is rife with bang average players who think they're Manchester United quality, and Ole can't address any of it until the transfer window opens.
Again, the guy has been in the job a whole four months. And people are already discussing his successor and saying he's out of his depth after the first patch of poor form. Ridiculous.
But that's an important point as well. He's still assessing the squad while trying to maintain results. It's a big ask for a guy who's only been in the job four months to be discussing contract renewals and transfer target prospects for next season. I imagine he's felt overwhelmed more than once. That's just the situation and how it's panned out.
The simple fact of the matter is he isn't a miracle worker. He can't just wave his wand and make Lukaku fitter, Martial less complacent or Lingard talented. Not overnight at least. Some of that is purely on the players or those who brought in or retained those players before Ole's arrival. Our squad is rife with bang average players who think they're Manchester United quality, and Ole can't address any of it until the transfer window opens.
Again, the guy has been in the job a whole four months. And people are already discussing his successor and saying he's out of his depth after the first patch of poor form. Ridiculous.
OSG had a record in the EPL before he became our caretaker manager, that record is why he was managing in Norway.
Managers like Pellegrini, Benitez, Emery, Nuno & even Eddie Howe must scoff at the idea that OSG would somehow out coach them, they might lose to us because we have players they can only dream about but it's not
fear of being out coached they worry about.
Exactly my thoughts.
We came back from a shyte season, what more do they want?
Invincible form? Treble?
We're lucky enough to see them salvage that gap between 4th, and here we are now reading posts about how shit we are since Ole was appointed.
We’re going to have to grind through the rest of this season and fans need to bloody relax and give him credit. We were an absolute shell when he took over, playing some awful stuff with most players playing with zero confidence and many with an eye on the door. To have us in contention is a minor miracle.
There is enough to still be buzzing about next season. Fred and McTominay look like they might grow more and more into team, and guys like dalot, shaw, rashford have shown the energy we want to see. There’s a good core there that he has a window to build on. Hes shown he won’t leave a player on the pitch for reputation alone and is yet to have a summer with his team.
At the moment he has to try balance improving with grinding out wins. With a few games left it frankly doesn’t matter how we get points. He simply can’t be judged until he’s had a summer and a transfer window.
There is enough to still be buzzing about next season. Fred and McTominay look like they might grow more and more into team, and guys like dalot, shaw, rashford have shown the energy we want to see. There’s a good core there that he has a window to build on. Hes shown he won’t leave a player on the pitch for reputation alone and is yet to have a summer with his team.
At the moment he has to try balance improving with grinding out wins. With a few games left it frankly doesn’t matter how we get points. He simply can’t be judged until he’s had a summer and a transfer window.
Guess the previous appointments have scarred the fans so much, a few bad games and fear has sunk in for next season already.
Pogba played as AM before the injury crisis. Since then he plays as CM and even sometimes DM. Not the same role.
Ole's clearly killing the players in training. None of them look fresh. Energy players like Martial, Lingard and Rashford look noticeably leggy.
There's obviously a method to his madness and it's probably caused Klopp like effects. Hopefully it bears fruit in the long run but at the moment only Fred and McTominay appear to have real energy and that's because they hardly play.
Might've been an idea to ramp up the fitness and training over a longer period of time or maybe a tweak is required for players to taper off before a game leaving some freshness in their legs. Eager to see how this pans out.. at the moment it's just injuries and flat performances.
There's obviously a method to his madness and it's probably caused Klopp like effects. Hopefully it bears fruit in the long run but at the moment only Fred and McTominay appear to have real energy and that's because they hardly play.
Might've been an idea to ramp up the fitness and training over a longer period of time or maybe a tweak is required for players to taper off before a game leaving some freshness in their legs. Eager to see how this pans out.. at the moment it's just injuries and flat performances.
I am talking about around the 65 minute mark. We were losing the ball in midfield all the time, and Lanzini was ripping us a new one (another stroke of luck that he went off injured). Pogba wasn't contributing much, if at all. His assist was clearly quite fortunate. But anyway, the main point was to do something about that midfield. If football were so easy that chasing a goal always meant adding an attacker, every man and his dog could be a manager. In terms of the dynamics of the game, it is almost as if we were defending a 1-1, too, more than looking for the second (though clearly the result would have been unacceptable).
We were bailed out BIGtime by luck yesterday. More so than great substitutions, that's for sure. Fantastic that we were though.
People keep saying how Ole will develop younger players, problem with that is he isn't managing the kids side any longer, where it is just your job to develop the players. The pressure in that job is not the same as managing the first team where results are everything.
SAF had the CO92, but more importantly he has Eric Harrison developing them as players and mentally as people. I am not sure our kids are being readied for the first team under Ricky Sbragia. The CO92 were tough mentally, young players now just seem to cower under the spotlight.
I probably haven't worded this very well. Young players now get rewarded far too early when they have not really achieved anything, getting in the first team seems enough to get mega wages, when surely scoring a certain number of goals, winning trophies etc should be the incentives. It would be choosing which young players have ambition, want to be the best, not just those who think coming to Manchester United is the goal. That should just be the start.
Ole really does need someone working closely with him to decide who are the right players, because I would not want the board doing it as they have indulged too many managers to the detriment of the club.
SAF had the CO92, but more importantly he has Eric Harrison developing them as players and mentally as people. I am not sure our kids are being readied for the first team under Ricky Sbragia. The CO92 were tough mentally, young players now just seem to cower under the spotlight.
I probably haven't worded this very well. Young players now get rewarded far too early when they have not really achieved anything, getting in the first team seems enough to get mega wages, when surely scoring a certain number of goals, winning trophies etc should be the incentives. It would be choosing which young players have ambition, want to be the best, not just those who think coming to Manchester United is the goal. That should just be the start.
Ole really does need someone working closely with him to decide who are the right players, because I would not want the board doing it as they have indulged too many managers to the detriment of the club.
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Yeah, but why? We have always had a 3 man midfield regardless of injuries. He never got into the box against Barcelona either and we had Fred and Scott in midfield
My biggest concern about Ole is whether he's a motivator or tactician type of manager? The best we played under him was on his debut when we smashed Cardiff (albeit the worst team in the league at that point in time) when he himself admitted he had little to no input in tactics and lineup for that match since he was literally just appointed and the people that had set that match up were Carrick and McKenna.
That being said it will be interesting to see what will he be able to so with this squad after he's had a summer transfer window.
That being said it will be interesting to see what will he be able to so with this squad after he's had a summer transfer window.
What I am annoyed of is that every manager comes with his own favorite players and they play weather they are good or they are shitting all over the place.
City have raised the bar though that’s the problem, going from where we are now to overtaking them isn’t going to happen.
The title winning team of 2007 was put together over a period of time and Chelsea weren’t as good as they had been the previous two seasons. It’s at least two summers of rebuilding before we’ll compete.
The focus has to be on building a team now not trying to chase an almost impossible dream of winning the league next year. Ole needs to do what Pep did at City, dismantle the squad and given the resources and competence available to Ole he would have to work a miracle to do that in one summer.
I don't have a problem with him 'killing' the players in training. Hardly his fault that the players were underworked big time by the previous dinosaurs. He needed to go in hard because his preferred tactics demand high energy levels.
One of the main reasons I'm positive about Ole is that he has a no nonsense approach towards fitness and the levels required for Man Utd players. He has spoken a fair bit about United being 'survival of the fittest'. If he's allowed to be ruthless in the summer he will get rid of the passengers. Just hope the clown(s) in charge open their wallets because this squad needs a major overhaul.
First 16 games last season: Won 11, drew 2 and lost 3. Scored 35 and conceded 11. Pts: 35.
In truth, nothing has changed from last season. We're the same team we were under Mourinho. Playing somewhat crap football when still capable of winning. The only issue is can Ole improve the football whilst maintaining a similar set of results.
Something a lot won't like hearing, but Moaninho got this team to near peak performance last season. It's just his shambolic 3rd season that tends to make people think otherwise. Our squad make-up is that of a defensive counter attacking team. It was lacking a few pieces last season and with two unproven signings the same is the case under Ole.
Apparently we have offered Mata a new contract, which is further evidence that the we are going to repeat the same mistakes and having similar conversations in 2-3 years with a new manager.
Cherry picked stat. Come back when he has 50 games or so. What am I seeing now is slightly improved crap attacking football we've seen in the last 4 seasons.
Lie, damn lie and statistics. Didn't Mourinho has least conceded behind city in his 2nd second? Everyone said our defense was great despite him telling us it wasn't true?
Then why has Emery been out coached twice?
Should have gone to specsavers.
The underlying statistics actually had our defense as fairly poor last season. Far from everyone thought it was great.
Our defence was great last season??? I had heart palpitations every time we had to defend a set piece! Our poor defence meant we had to constantly play from behind, and De Gea was busy in many many games.
Not what I remember. In fact, the very opposite seemed to be the tune most were singing, i.e. that it was mainly DDG's heroics which boosted our GA stat. Even people who detested Jose basically agreed with him that we needed defensive upgrades, both in the middle and - not least - at RB.
The same is true still. Like I've said before, if OGS is fine with our current options at the back, he's either a genius or completely out of his depth.
I'm sure he's after a new CB, though.
It was the consensus in the summer, when he wanted to buy 2 more defenders but Caf used GA to argue that area was the least of our problem.
Reminds me on Jose. Jose had his awful moments after the game but pre game it was always good. Nice words, we must do that and this, we will do this and that and when game comes it is total disaster. Same is with Ole. He says nice things before game, fans go crazy and in the game we see same shit over and over again.
Where is that attacking football? He is here 4 months and i don't see any pattern in attack. We score after counters and that is it. When other team stays in defensive shape we look lost. Against West Ham and Watford most of times when Pogba had the ball he couldn't pass to any player. They all were too static. And i am maybe wrong here but i have a feeling that we play on long balls even more than we played it under Mourinho.
Where is that attacking football? He is here 4 months and i don't see any pattern in attack. We score after counters and that is it. When other team stays in defensive shape we look lost. Against West Ham and Watford most of times when Pogba had the ball he couldn't pass to any player. They all were too static. And i am maybe wrong here but i have a feeling that we play on long balls even more than we played it under Mourinho.
Apart from us picking up more points, having more shots and being superior defensively, we are probably quite similar to Mourinho you're right.
A lot of you need to take a chill pill, go buy/download Football Manager 2019 and set us up to play whatever you fancy. Real life is much more harder and we are trying our best atm. There's a lot to improve on within the personality and within game play.
I know not everyone is a fan of expected goals but I think it's interesting to look at it anyway and see how Ole and Mourinho compare. The numbers are taken from understat.com...
Mourinho 17/18 (38 games)
xG 1.55
xGA 1.15
xPts 1.64
Mourinho 18/19 (17 games)
xG 1.66
xGA 1.56
xPts 1.41
Solskjaer 18/19 (16 games)
xG 2.17
xGA 1.23
xPts 1.98
From this it becomes clear that Solskjaer is doing better than Mourinho, even if compared with Mourinho's best season at the club. Lastly, let's look at Liverpool and City this season for an indication of what type of level is required to challenge for the league. The noticeable difference is that they are much stronger defensively.
Liverpool 18/19 (33 games)
xG 2.09
xGA 0.75
xPts 2.21
Man City 18/19 (32 games)
xG 2.58
xGA 0.70
xPts 2.42
Mourinho 17/18 (38 games)
xG 1.55
xGA 1.15
xPts 1.64
Mourinho 18/19 (17 games)
xG 1.66
xGA 1.56
xPts 1.41
Solskjaer 18/19 (16 games)
xG 2.17
xGA 1.23
xPts 1.98
From this it becomes clear that Solskjaer is doing better than Mourinho, even if compared with Mourinho's best season at the club. Lastly, let's look at Liverpool and City this season for an indication of what type of level is required to challenge for the league. The noticeable difference is that they are much stronger defensively.
Liverpool 18/19 (33 games)
xG 2.09
xGA 0.75
xPts 2.21
Man City 18/19 (32 games)
xG 2.58
xGA 0.70
xPts 2.42
It's a good squad, don't get me wrong. As you say, just needs some improvements and we should be challenging.
In your world, do they teach about numbers and mathematics? Well, in our world, the number 35 is higher than 34 and 11 is lower than 15 i.e. we had scored more and conceded less.
Just out of interest, do you think we’d have scored as many, conceded as little and have as many points if Mourinho had stayed?
Don’t just whip out the very best spell of Mourinho’s time here. He was completely shit for the club. Ole has been ten times better without being able to sign anyone and having worse injury problems.
My point is it's a phase. If you compare to Mourinho's first 15 matches last season, the results are quite similar, 11wins-2draws- 2loses, 35 GF- 9 GA. Sure first half of this season was a disaster for Mourinho but it isn't my point.
You need larger sample size because that's how statistics work. See how easy is it to form "facts" which biased stats? Everyone can do it.
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